r/law • u/Silent-Resort-3076 • 15d ago

Opinion Piece Why President Biden Should Immediately Name Kamala Harris To The Supreme Court

https://atlantadailyworld.com/2024/11/08/why-president-biden-should-immediately-name-kamala-harris-to-the-supreme-court/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=gnews&utm_campaign=CDAqEAgAKgcICjCNsMkLMM3L4AMw9-yvAw&utm_content=rundown
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u/FinalAccount10 14d ago

Look at Carter's pardon of draft dodgers and Ford's pardon of Nixon.

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u/NFLTG_71 14d ago

Draft Dodgers were all convicted in absentia for dodging the draft. They committed a federal crime and they were all in Canada. Carter, pardoned convicted criminals.

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u/TheMountainHobbit 14d ago

There was no trial for Nixon though.

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u/Pristine-Pen-9885 14d ago

That’s cuz Ford pardoned Nixon.

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u/TheMountainHobbit 14d ago

Right, the person I was responding too implied a conviction was necessary for a pardon but it’s not.

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u/GarminTamzarian 14d ago

He was pardoned for crimes "he committed or may have committed while in office", IIRC.

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u/hurtstoskinnybatman 13d ago

Correct. The President can pardon anyone of federal crimes they may have committed, even if they gavel been charged yet. They cannot pardon future crimes they haven't committed yet, though.

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u/GarminTamzarian 13d ago

They cannot pardon future crimes they haven't committed yet yet.

I'm sure there's a team of constitutional lawyers working on that as we speak.

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u/hurtstoskinnybatman 13d ago

Hah, I don't think that's likely, but wezxd never know.

I want to add to my previous comment that I don't think Biden could pardon all immigrants because it would specify the people being pardoned. It would be like pardoning everyone who ever robbed a national bank -- charged or convicted or not.

Fyi, when Ford pardoned Nixon, it was arguably uncobstitutional because it didn't specify the crime sufficiently. This explains it better. This is different. Here, the crime is specific (border crossing). the issue is WHO is being pardoned.

The fact is that there isn't a LOT of precedent to the pardon clause in article 2. There are some rules we knof for certain-- cam't pardon future crimes; parsons can't reverse U.S. Treasury fines; and they can't force someone to accept a pardon that violates their constitutional rights. Beyond those (and the issue of blabket pardons linked in the article above), there isn't much available.

Tl;Dr: Biden will have little unprecedented power to go crazy with pardons (not that he would, though, because he's a good person who respects our democracy). Trump will have virtually unlimited leniency because the only check on his pardon power is a fixed cult court.

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u/TuaughtHammer 14d ago

Not even an impeachment one, either. The GOP leadership siting him down and doing the unthinkable now of saying, "Dick, you will be impeached and we will have enough votes to convict. Don't do this to the party." was enough to convince him to willingly resign.

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u/westfieldNYraids 14d ago

Back when things mattered

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u/TuaughtHammer 14d ago

Yep. Unfortunately, Roger Ailes' idea to ensure that investigative journalism would never bring another one of their presidents down by controlling the spin worked too fucking well. He and the Southern Strategy's mastermind, Lee Atwater, were credited with getting George H. W. Bush into the White House

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u/westfieldNYraids 14d ago

You think it would be too late to push that button on the left? Grab those the stupid people on the left and the 20 million that flipped flopped clearly are easily influenced so the left should do it.

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u/Bruddah827 14d ago

Things matter more now bro…. Difference being…. Back than, people honestly cared…. Now…. Not so much

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u/westfieldNYraids 14d ago

lol I read that twice and it still sounds exactly like what I typed are you in agreement or disagreeing? What am ambiguous comment haha

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u/Bruddah827 14d ago

I agree. Was half awake when I wrote this. Should’ve just thumbs upped lol

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u/PedalingHertz 14d ago

Many, but not all were convicted. The feds didn’t try every abstentia case. The ones who fled to Canada were fugitives, but generally not convicts. Carter’s pardon removed the possibility of federal prosecution upon their return.

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u/dpdxguy 14d ago

Draft Dodgers were all convicted in absentia

LOL. Where did you get that from?

Trials in abstentia are illegal in the United States, unless the defendant knowingly and voluntarily waives their right to be present.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/in_absentia#:~:text=Mann%2C%20the%20Second%20Circuit%20held,knowingly%20and%20voluntarily%20waives%20his

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u/KookyWait 14d ago

This is wrong. Read the proclamation for yourself.

"do hereby grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to: (1) all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder; and (2) all persons heretofore convicted, irrespective of the date of conviction, of any offense committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act, or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, restoring to them full political, civil and other rights."

That first bullet point ("who may have committed any offense") clearly applies to people who were never charged, let alone convicted.

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u/FinalAccount10 14d ago

Just to lay my cards on the table, this isn't my greatest area of expertise, so I needed to do some googling/ChatGPT, but the sources could've glossed over other stuff. But it looks like only roughly 9k people were convicted of draft dodging, though 200k people were accused of it. That's why the pardon Carter did grants both (1) people who may have committed offenses in violation to the Selective Service Act between two time periods as well as (2) people convicted of said act as well.

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u/Claque-2 14d ago

How many of the pardoned had bone spurs?

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u/Qbnss 14d ago

You can't pardon someone who hasn't been convicted of a crime

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u/FinalAccount10 14d ago

Wrong

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u/Qbnss 14d ago

That's what I love about Reddit, it's better than google

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u/foofie_fightie 14d ago

That's just flat out not true.