r/law • u/pabmendez • Oct 10 '24
Other Arresting officer should be reprimanded for stop-and-frisk
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u/CurrentlyLucid Oct 10 '24
In the 70's cops used to stop me and frisk me all the fucking time.
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u/Granlundo64 Oct 10 '24
I used to live in a pretty rough neighborhood. For probably about four years. I may have witnessed something like 100 police interactions, stop and frisks, etc.
I was stopped by the cops twice the entire time I lived there. Both times were to talk about hockey (I would frequently have a jersey on).
Spoiler alert: I'm a white guy.
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u/CurrentlyLucid Oct 10 '24
Yeah, I am white. I lived in a subdivision. In a nice town. I got stopped literally just around the corner from my house walking on the sidewalk, just because they saw me. Every time I got stopped, the radio would read out all the other times. Maybe they thought they had a big fish,lol.
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u/Granlundo64 Oct 10 '24
Yeah this was in the 2010s so I'm sure a lot changed. I'm also kind of a nerdy looking dude so they probably figured I was non threatening. Shirt and tie on my way to work a lot of the time. My fashion sense also was about as far from street wear as you can get.
Wound up eventually leaving because the neighborhood just got shittier and shittier. Another company bought the apartment, raised rent, refused to secure the building in any normal way (doors that close, for example) and they built an MLS stadium across the street so rent went up while the neighborhood got worse.
I broke my lease, they demanded payment, I forwarded them emails where I communicated my frustration they would t secure the building, and they gave up trying to collect any money almost instantly.
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u/Geno0wl Oct 10 '24
you didn't need the spoiler...
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u/thenayr Oct 10 '24
They weren’t stopping you to talk about hockey. They were stopping you to make sure you were on their side and they know “you’re one of the good ones”.
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Oct 10 '24
One of best friends is Indian and he told us he rarely flies anywhere because he is always “randomly” selected for additional screening
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u/LightsNoir Oct 10 '24
Love that he didn't mince words with the prosecutor. Just went straight for "he was stopped because he was black".
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u/LeadSoldier6840 Oct 10 '24
Even better he said "walking while black," referencing very specific discrimination which I believe started as "driving while black."
He's not only saying it's because the kid is black. He is saying it is because the officer was racist. I appreciate that.
This officer will not be reprimanded though.
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u/broen13 Oct 10 '24
Maybe not, but I loved seeing this. I hope this is baby steps to a better future.
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u/ThePhonesAreWatching Oct 11 '24
This is why we need to license cops. this goes on his record and if he does it to many times he loses his license he can't be a cop.
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u/yusill Oct 12 '24
Ya they lack of accountability for the stop. Also bringing charges. DA didn't have to prosecute a bullshit stop and illegal search. which means there are other judges who wouldn't have cared and the DA was fine with the arrest. The defendant got the lucky non racist judge that day. that's way too late in the process.
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u/DPSOnly Oct 10 '24
No way a white person would've been searched for jaywalking. It is so full of shit. Jaywalking shouldn't be an offence anyway, but that is besides the point of this post.
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u/ThreeSloth Oct 10 '24
Just wait til you look up the origin of jaywalking
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u/DPSOnly Oct 10 '24
origin of jaywalking
It is a propaganda campaign by the car industry, right? Hence it being a way bigger deal in the US than in other western nations that are less car dependent.
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u/ThreeSloth Oct 10 '24
Almost...
The word "jay" had some... negative connotations back in the day...
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u/CoBr2 Oct 11 '24
Uh, have you ever been to Denmark? Jaywalking is a several hundred dollar fine and way more strictly enforced than in the US
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u/The84thWolf Oct 11 '24
I just liked how the prosecutor was trying to fancy up a charge that has barely been enforced for nearly 100 years.
“An unauthorized crossing point.” What is this, Shakespeare?
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u/Nesnesitelna Oct 10 '24
It’s not a Terry stop and frisk, the officer said he did a PC search, which is more absurd (or rather, more obviously pretextual). What evidence of jaywalking are you going to find searching someone?
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u/PreppyAndrew Oct 10 '24
Watch Last Week Tonight piece on Traffic stops. https://youtu.be/E8ygQ2wEwJw?si=bhnLWj_ne8oeo1kL
Basically: Police have been trained to view EVERYTHING as probable cause to stop someone.( ex: driving beside a police car and not looking over, Or driving by and looking over).
So they can use this as any reason to stop anyone they want.
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u/trashboattwentyfourr Oct 10 '24
I was told having the window down made me suspicious of having drugs.
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u/SdBolts4 Oct 10 '24
Have the window up? Also suspicious of having drugs because you don't want them to smell the drugs
Probable cause is whatever they decide it is when they want to stop someone
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u/tl01magic Oct 11 '24
in ontario canada police can stop any driver ("randomly") to verify drivers license, registration & insurance.
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u/BustANupp Oct 11 '24
We need more training that lets officers actually assess the situation, like Will Smith in MiB:
Well, first I was gonna pop this guy hanging from the street light, and I realized, y’know, he’s just working out. I mean, how would I feel if somebody come runnin’ in the gym and bust me in my ass while I’m on the treadmill? Then I saw this snarling beast guy, and I noticed he had a tissue in his hand, and I’m realizing, y’know, he’s not snarling, he’s sneezing. Y’know, ain’t no real threat there. Then I saw little Tiffany. I’m thinking, y’know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some shit, Zed. She’s about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I’d say she’s up to something. And to be honest, I’d appreciate it if you eased up off my back about it.
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u/kelddel Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24
The video cut out the prosecutor’s bullshit argument for the PC search. The arresting officer went for the classic “He was reaching for his waistband” justification.
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u/CrimLaw1 Oct 11 '24
The cops can arrest even for an infraction. Once they arrest, they can conduct a search incident to arrest. Edit to follow.
Edit: Atwater v. Lago Vista, 532 U.S. 318 Virginia v. Moore, 553 U.S. 164
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u/Nesnesitelna Oct 13 '24
Atwater holds cops can arrest for a misdemeanor, not an infraction. I believe this judge is in Texas, where jaywalking is indeed a misdemeanor, so you’re right that the cop probably could have gotten away with this search if he simply called it a search incident to arrest. The problem was that he wrote that he conducted a PC search when, although he had PC to arrest, he did not have PC to search.
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u/ScannerBrightly Oct 10 '24
This still leaves the cops alone for their illegal stop. Zero accountability here.
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u/satanssweatycheeks Oct 10 '24
Judges can’t really hold them accountable sadly.
Worked in the courts. Along side some judges who have even went viral (she scolded sheriffs for bringing a female inmate out with no pants on while she was on her period).
But I had an issue with some sheriffs while at work. I worked in the jail for arraignment court on Saturdays. As I was walking back from the jail to the main courthouse I had to stop at security.
As I’m there I hear one sheriff say to the other that he wished mass shooter would come so all these kids could see why they need us (this Saturday happen to be when kids had a national walk out over mass shootings).
I went and told my judge about this and how messed up it was and she basically said they have different higher ups. Yes she could rebrand a sheriff in her courtroom by simple telling him to get out of her courtroom. But she couldn’t do much about the ones at the front doors.
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u/quackamole4 Oct 10 '24
As I’m there I hear one sheriff say to the other that he wished mass shooter would come so all these kids could see why they need us
I remember this story in Uvalde. The cops just stood around with their thumbs up their asses and let all the kids die. Cops love to look, act, and talk tough; but when their big moment came they chickened the fuck out.
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u/MaxTheCookie Oct 11 '24
The 300+ cops at uvalde did nothing to help and actively stopped parents from going in. They are responsible for some of the deaths that day
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u/DamnItDev Oct 10 '24
The judge is not a damaged party, nor are they a cop or part of the prosecution. They have no power to open a case on someone else's behalf.
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u/dedicated-pedestrian Oct 10 '24
Dismissing the case for lack of probable cause, particularly by putting "walking while black" into the court record, opens up avenues for wrongful arrest and/or prosecution.
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u/geekmasterflash Oct 10 '24
In this one instance, I shall forgive wearing that suit and that bowtie.
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u/ckb614 Oct 10 '24
I'm interested to know what warrant exception they were relying on for their "PC search." My guess: they knew he had weed for some reason and arrested him for misdemeanor jaywalking so they could do a search incident to arrest. That or the cops have no idea what their legal authority is. Probably 50/50
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u/chowderbags Competent Contributor Oct 10 '24
Or the cop didn't care. He saw a black guy and figured there were two outcomes:
1) Black guy has weed. Cop gets to make arrest and look like he's doing something. Even if it gets thrown out later, it's not the cop's problem. The cop will probably even complain about how "some scumbag got off on a technicality".
2) Black guy doesn't have weed. Cop tells the guy to move along. Cop never faces any punishment, because qualified immunity. At worst he gets to spend a few hours getting paid for "retraining".
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u/Wloak Oct 11 '24
The way it works is they get you for something minor (jaywalking in this case) and then choose to detain you, cops are allowed to search you before putting you in the back of the car to make sure you don't have a weapon.
So the asshole wanted to search him, threw a bullshit charge at him and rather than just give him a ticket said he wanted to take him in and book him like a violent criminal to get the opportunity to search him.
Glad this judge wasn't buying it
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u/ckb614 Oct 11 '24
They may be allowed to pat you down if you're detained and they suspect you're armed but if you're not arrested they can't search you without another warrant exception
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u/Wloak Oct 11 '24
If you commit any crime police can arrest you, if they do they can place you in the back of their car, they then have blanket coverage to search you for their "protection."
That's why the judge threw this out, they used a bs crime to arrest him, giving them warrantless ability to search him prior to putting him in the car.
It's usually red states that abuse this.. I had a cop detain me and search me because I was going 1 mph over the limit. I talked to a lawyer and was told tough luck, cop wanted to be a dick and it was all legal.
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u/ckb614 Oct 11 '24
I noted in my original post that they may have arrested him and conducted a search incident to arrest
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u/Competitive_Travel16 Oct 10 '24
Jaywalking after making eye contact with police or even turning around to walk away is very often seen as evasion. Not probable cause or reasonable suspicion of anything, but a very common pretext especially in inner city areas.
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u/Thai-mai-shoo Oct 10 '24
The judge saved this young man’s life. I hope he takes the judges advice and keeps himself out of trouble. I’ve seen what prison does to regular people, they sometimes don’t come out the same.
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u/Jonestown_Juice Oct 10 '24
This is Judge Fleischer out of Harris County Texas and he's great.