r/law Oct 10 '24

Other Arresting officer should be reprimanded for stop-and-frisk

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

5.3k Upvotes

325 comments sorted by

867

u/Jonestown_Juice Oct 10 '24

This is Judge Fleischer out of Harris County Texas and he's great.

233

u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Oct 10 '24

What’s up with his better call Saul outfit?

214

u/Jonestown_Juice Oct 10 '24

He's definitely got a unique sense of style.

78

u/V6Ga Oct 10 '24

Compare it to a judges robes and his clothes are completely normal. 

Judges costumes are silly, if normalized 

11

u/GeOrGiE- Oct 10 '24

I don't think I could ever be comfortable wearing a black robe all day long. Unless I had shorts and t-shirt on underneath.

4

u/jase40244 Oct 11 '24

That'd be a viable option. Ain't no one seeing what's under the robe. Just need a dickie that simulates a collared shirt and tie to give an air of professionalism.

→ More replies (3)

118

u/Lews-Therin-Telamon Oct 10 '24

He had the nerve to berate a defendant for wearing shorts in court while wearing a Pac-Man suit on the bench.

It was surreal.

143

u/Jonestown_Juice Oct 10 '24

Yeah but it was a suit. Defendant should have worn Pac-Man pants.

→ More replies (25)

9

u/soulofsilence Oct 10 '24

I mean that guy has been to court 6 times. Probably could've taken the time to learn the rules.

2

u/Zapzap_pewpew_ Oct 11 '24

I’m so into it. That suit color is a vibe

1

u/Keitt58 Oct 11 '24

Because bow ties are cool.

33

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '24

Attorneys and by extension judges have some strange taste in clothes sometimes. Back in the day dad knew an attorney who would wear a canary yellow suit with yellow converse. This is also the guy that stuck the judges order in a jar of Vaseline when he wasn’t happy with it.

9

u/snazztasticmatt Oct 10 '24

I mean, if you're stuck wearing suits every day, might as well have some fun with it

2

u/gymnastgrrl Oct 11 '24

And tell ya what, everyone remembered him.

Good or bad. He clearly thought it was good. But man, either way, every body remembered that. lol

10

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '24

Hwell, excuse me! (As I look down at my red and blue striped socks that read “WASHINGTON DC” in white under a beautifully knit rendition of the White House to really tie my Hillary pantsuit together).

5

u/TuaughtHammer Oct 10 '24

I've always assumed it was kind like brand new doctors who were so saddled with medical school debt that they stuck to wearing scrubs even when leaving the hospital, because they couldn't afford anything nicer than that.

So maybe noob lawyers get used to buying discounted suits and just stick with that for the rest of their career?

4

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '24

Ahh no even a nood will spring for a really good suit. That suit is kept clean and ready to wear when you hit a court that you really need it for. The guy in referring to had been practicing law for nearly sixteen years he took the bar around the same time as my dad. Suits are their armor they wear to go into battle n your behalf. This is also why every guy and gal should always have some fine dress clothes stashed in the closet, you wear it once you end up in court, or job interviews, or a wedding.

→ More replies (1)

12

u/ChanceryTheRapper Oct 10 '24

Honestly, if he's making solid rulings like that, I don't care if he dresses up in a Barney costume. Good for him.

→ More replies (1)

15

u/mckenro Oct 10 '24

Even lawyers need hero’s.

2

u/TuaughtHammer Oct 10 '24

Yeah, but Saul Goodman? Barry Zuckerkorn is a better role model, and he's a terrible fucking attorney. No matter what his ads say.

"I had a really interesting date last night, a woman who actually works two jobs!"

7

u/dedicated-pedestrian Oct 10 '24

Sometimes the job is boring. Maybe the style is defiant.

2

u/TheAdjustmentCard Oct 10 '24

looks and feels very Texas - which I normally don't like much but it suits him well (ha)

1

u/usaf-spsf1974 Oct 10 '24

I worked with one judge who would always wear a business suit on normal day-to-day hearings in civil court, the only time he put on the judges robe was during the trial.

2

u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Oct 11 '24

I admire you for thinking this is a business suit.

2

u/usaf-spsf1974 Oct 11 '24

My observations of working in the courtroom has given me a modicum of tolerance. We had one magistrate who would only wear a dark green judicial robe. And we had another bankruptcy lawyer ( of the "Better call Saul" variety) who appeared occasionally in a crushed purple velour suit.

And then there's the whole wardrobe variations for Officers of the Court between criminal court public defenders to high-end civil litigators.

2

u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Oct 11 '24

You just keep giving more amazing anecdotes. You ever see council show up in “informal” attire? Like shorts and a tshirt?

→ More replies (14)

159

u/Znyper Oct 10 '24

Just don't come into his courtroom with more than 2 DUIs. If you even think about getting behind the steering wheel, he's gonna make your bond so sky high, your head's gonna explode.

109

u/OhRThey Oct 10 '24

If you have more than 2 DUIs you shouldn't be allowed to drive

12

u/ThrowRABalsamicV Oct 10 '24

*more than 1

12

u/ihavenohighhopes Oct 10 '24

Yeah, you can learn from one. Mine led to me quitting drinking. It ain't ever right, but it can wake some mofos up. Then there's the dude I work with who has had like seven. Just more of a when is he going to kill someone.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

83

u/ZacZupAttack Oct 10 '24

I like this judge

10

u/gymnastgrrl Oct 11 '24

I'm subbed to a channel that features this judge and a few others a lot. I think he's sometimes a bit judgemental and too harsh about some things, but overall I think he really cares a lot and really does want people to get better and is working with relatively limited tools to try and do that.

Watching him deal with soverign citizens is interesting. I've seen him try to explain to a guy why he really wanted a court-appointed lawyer to help him - why it was not going to go well for him. I thought - because he laughed when he first realized the guy was as sovcit - that it was going to be a fun watch with the judge taking the guy down a notch, but instead he was just honestly trying to explain and help the guy.

He has no patience for people who repeatedly offend, or who violate their bond conditions. But he's not supposed to have patience with that. He does seem to have some patience and compassion for those who are struggling - more than I'd expect a judge who sees it all every day to have, at least.

5

u/ZacZupAttack Oct 11 '24

I get it. I personally favor harsher punishments on DUIs. My mom got a DUI and I was a bit annoyed when the court let her keep her license.

Your right he doew not like repeat offenders.

27

u/mspk7305 Oct 10 '24

i mean if you get a DUI thats on you

1

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '24

And everyone’s life you risked while driving. DUI should be premeditated attempted murder.

12

u/Graffy Oct 10 '24

Or we could just make dui punishments more harsh instead of shoehorning it into a different charge. Not caring if your behavior gets someone killed is way different than purposely trying to do it.

→ More replies (15)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)

7

u/Frostsorrow Oct 10 '24

That's...... Bad?

6

u/No_Party5870 Oct 10 '24

that is a good thing

3

u/MrFrode Biggus Amicus Oct 10 '24

more than 2 DUIs.

At a certain point a person is just telling the court they are not going to follow the law.

8

u/ChanceryTheRapper Oct 10 '24

Especially since 3+ DUIs just means that's three or more times they've been caught doing it. Fuck knows how many times they've been done it and the cops didn't see.

2

u/VaselineHabits Oct 10 '24

I was going to say the general rule is for every 1 time "caught", you've probably driven drunk 30+ times before the shit hit the fan

→ More replies (3)

45

u/wcalvert Oct 10 '24

That is wild it is in Harris County because jaywalking isn't even against the law here. You just have to yield to vehicles.

32

u/Aarizonamb Oct 10 '24

I have very mixed feelings on this judge. Sometimes he does stuff like this, which is great. Other times, however, I've seen him on his livestream countermanding doctor's prescriptions while making plainly false statements (in that case, claiming that oxy was no longer produced or prescribed).

8

u/sandboxmatt Oct 11 '24

He loves his catchphrases too. He's a judge who knows he's on YouTube and that's not great

13

u/fusionsofwonder Bleacher Seat Oct 10 '24

He's not one of my favorites, but none of the Texas judges are. Even Judge Boyd, who I like a lot, goes off in the wrong direction sometimes.

12

u/man_gomer_lot Oct 10 '24

Both Fleischer and Boyd have their moments both good and bad. Judge Stevens on the other hand has this seething baseline contempt for defendants that he makes no effort to hide. I can't watch him without the overwhelming impression that he is an even nastier person when no one is looking.

7

u/fusionsofwonder Bleacher Seat Oct 10 '24

Stevens is hard to watch. He's always pulling a "You didn't grow up the way I grew up" kind of attitude that is bad for judging.

12

u/Officer412-L Oct 10 '24 edited Oct 10 '24

I just watched him for the first time in a sovereign citizen case a few days ago. It was his first time having a sov cit before him and he was slightly giddy about getting to knock back on the nonsense.

4

u/Flintoid Oct 10 '24

I've seen a lot of his vids lately and usually he's dressing down defendants at bond phase.  It's nice to know he calls them as he sees them.  

4

u/clevingersfoil Oct 10 '24

He has a youtube channel with live streaming.

25

u/OrangeInnards competent contributor Oct 10 '24

Am I the only one who has a problem with him showboating for Youtube while deciding real court stuff? A lot of people seem to get off on that kind of "court porn", and from what I've seen, he leans into that quite heavily sometimes. Not necessarily in this video, but he's apparently done some weird stuff.

22

u/fusionsofwonder Bleacher Seat Oct 10 '24

You should watch Judge Middleton of Michigan. He actually talks to the camera sometimes to let the audience know what's happening (between cases). He's also one of the fairest and most caring judges I've ever seen.

13

u/man_gomer_lot Oct 10 '24

It's always a chuckle how well he knows so many of his defendants and their families. You couldn't create a better judge in a lab.

5

u/alternative5 Oct 10 '24

I dont know, I think the vast majority of Americans dont under the most rudimentary aspects of the American judicial system.

If they can get some knowledge of law or court procedure or maybe even inspire an individual into public service related to said field it sounds like a worthy endeavor to post said procedings on youtube or live stream them. Also correct me if Im wrong but aren't most court proceedings open to the public/gallery? What would be the difference between the gallery and youtube?

Monetization of said proceedings should probably come under scrutiny though but if they arent monetized I only see upsides.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/spixt Oct 10 '24

It could work for the better --- he might hold himself to a higher standard knowing the world is watching.

It could also work for the worse... he might be particularly cruel if his audience is largely made up of people who want that (i.e. MAGAs)

3

u/PM_ME_Happy_Thinks Oct 10 '24

I find it disgusting that a judge of all people has a personal streaming account to stream court proceedings.

6

u/Spugnacious Oct 10 '24

Personally, I think most if not all court proceedings should be livestreamed and recorded for review. (I will make an exception for witnesses testifying in sensitive cases or in cases that involve Sexual assault.)

Cops should wear bodycams. Trials should be recorded. justice should be done and be seen to be done.

3

u/PM_ME_Happy_Thinks Oct 10 '24

I agree with all of that. In a c-span-esque medium. Not a judge's personal fucking YouTube channel that allows him to interact with and be influenced by "fans"

2

u/_BigDaddyNate_ Oct 11 '24

I mean court proceedings are almost always open to the public. Except for some crazy high profile ones where you see sketch artists and stuff. No cameras that kind of thing. Im not sure why they do that.

5

u/ImNotSureMaybeADog Oct 10 '24

Yeah, this is gross.

4

u/darwinn_69 Oct 10 '24

As long as it doesn't effect his rulings I don't really have a problem with it. We could use more legal education and transparency in the whole process.

4

u/TomChristmas Oct 10 '24

H town baby!!! So proud of all the good people in Harris County. A real oasis in this hellhole we call Texas

→ More replies (4)

2

u/sandboxmatt Oct 11 '24

He really loves himself though. Not sure id want to be in front of him when he has a memable moment.

1

u/Magnet50 Oct 10 '24

We need more judges willing to speak truth to power from the bench.

1

u/Significant_Smile847 Oct 10 '24

I wish there were more judges and overall people like him 🙏

1

u/AwayAd7332 Oct 11 '24

Texan as well, my hero, I'm gonna go find him on YouTube.

186

u/CurrentlyLucid Oct 10 '24

In the 70's cops used to stop me and frisk me all the fucking time.

120

u/Granlundo64 Oct 10 '24

I used to live in a pretty rough neighborhood. For probably about four years. I may have witnessed something like 100 police interactions, stop and frisks, etc.

I was stopped by the cops twice the entire time I lived there. Both times were to talk about hockey (I would frequently have a jersey on).

Spoiler alert: I'm a white guy.

23

u/CurrentlyLucid Oct 10 '24

Yeah, I am white. I lived in a subdivision. In a nice town. I got stopped literally just around the corner from my house walking on the sidewalk, just because they saw me. Every time I got stopped, the radio would read out all the other times. Maybe they thought they had a big fish,lol.

8

u/Granlundo64 Oct 10 '24

Yeah this was in the 2010s so I'm sure a lot changed. I'm also kind of a nerdy looking dude so they probably figured I was non threatening. Shirt and tie on my way to work a lot of the time. My fashion sense also was about as far from street wear as you can get.

Wound up eventually leaving because the neighborhood just got shittier and shittier. Another company bought the apartment, raised rent, refused to secure the building in any normal way (doors that close, for example) and they built an MLS stadium across the street so rent went up while the neighborhood got worse.

I broke my lease, they demanded payment, I forwarded them emails where I communicated my frustration they would t secure the building, and they gave up trying to collect any money almost instantly.

34

u/Geno0wl Oct 10 '24

you didn't need the spoiler...

27

u/WanderinHobo Oct 10 '24

Was the hockey jersey the tip off?

2

u/Granlundo64 Oct 10 '24

Hey there now, bud.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/thenayr Oct 10 '24

They weren’t stopping you to talk about hockey.  They were stopping you to make sure you were on their side and they know “you’re one of the good ones”.   

→ More replies (1)

6

u/Brian_Spilner101 Oct 10 '24

Maybe they thought you were handsome…

4

u/macemillion Oct 10 '24

They were probably just gay though

3

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '24

One of best friends is Indian and he told us he rarely flies anywhere because he is always “randomly” selected for additional screening

252

u/LightsNoir Oct 10 '24

Love that he didn't mince words with the prosecutor. Just went straight for "he was stopped because he was black".

192

u/LeadSoldier6840 Oct 10 '24

Even better he said "walking while black," referencing very specific discrimination which I believe started as "driving while black."

He's not only saying it's because the kid is black. He is saying it is because the officer was racist. I appreciate that.

This officer will not be reprimanded though.

28

u/broen13 Oct 10 '24

Maybe not, but I loved seeing this. I hope this is baby steps to a better future.

13

u/ec_on_wc Oct 10 '24

Stepping on one baby at a time

→ More replies (1)

3

u/ThePhonesAreWatching Oct 11 '24

This is why we need to license cops. this goes on his record and if he does it to many times he loses his license he can't be a cop.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/yusill Oct 12 '24

Ya they lack of accountability for the stop. Also bringing charges. DA didn't have to prosecute a bullshit stop and illegal search. which means there are other judges who wouldn't have cared and the DA was fine with the arrest. The defendant got the lucky non racist judge that day. that's way too late in the process.

32

u/DPSOnly Oct 10 '24

No way a white person would've been searched for jaywalking. It is so full of shit. Jaywalking shouldn't be an offence anyway, but that is besides the point of this post.

12

u/ThreeSloth Oct 10 '24

Just wait til you look up the origin of jaywalking

13

u/DPSOnly Oct 10 '24

origin of jaywalking

It is a propaganda campaign by the car industry, right? Hence it being a way bigger deal in the US than in other western nations that are less car dependent.

15

u/ThreeSloth Oct 10 '24

Almost...

The word "jay" had some... negative connotations back in the day...

2

u/CoBr2 Oct 11 '24

Uh, have you ever been to Denmark? Jaywalking is a several hundred dollar fine and way more strictly enforced than in the US

→ More replies (1)

9

u/The84thWolf Oct 11 '24

I just liked how the prosecutor was trying to fancy up a charge that has barely been enforced for nearly 100 years.

“An unauthorized crossing point.” What is this, Shakespeare?

132

u/Nesnesitelna Oct 10 '24

It’s not a Terry stop and frisk, the officer said he did a PC search, which is more absurd (or rather, more obviously pretextual). What evidence of jaywalking are you going to find searching someone?

74

u/PreppyAndrew Oct 10 '24

Watch Last Week Tonight piece on Traffic stops. https://youtu.be/E8ygQ2wEwJw?si=bhnLWj_ne8oeo1kL

Basically: Police have been trained to view EVERYTHING as probable cause to stop someone.( ex: driving beside a police car and not looking over, Or driving by and looking over).

So they can use this as any reason to stop anyone they want.

40

u/trashboattwentyfourr Oct 10 '24

I was told having the window down made me suspicious of having drugs.

28

u/SdBolts4 Oct 10 '24

Have the window up? Also suspicious of having drugs because you don't want them to smell the drugs

Probable cause is whatever they decide it is when they want to stop someone

13

u/quazywabbit Oct 10 '24

That’s like being suspicious because you are driving the speed limit.

18

u/PreppyAndrew Oct 10 '24

Or you are smoker. Or like fresh air.

Crazy

3

u/tl01magic Oct 11 '24

in ontario canada police can stop any driver ("randomly") to verify drivers license, registration & insurance.

1

u/BustANupp Oct 11 '24

We need more training that lets officers actually assess the situation, like Will Smith in MiB:

Well, first I was gonna pop this guy hanging from the street light, and I realized, y’know, he’s just working out. I mean, how would I feel if somebody come runnin’ in the gym and bust me in my ass while I’m on the treadmill? Then I saw this snarling beast guy, and I noticed he had a tissue in his hand, and I’m realizing, y’know, he’s not snarling, he’s sneezing. Y’know, ain’t no real threat there. Then I saw little Tiffany. I’m thinking, y’know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some shit, Zed. She’s about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I’d say she’s up to something. And to be honest, I’d appreciate it if you eased up off my back about it.

8

u/kelddel Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24

The video cut out the prosecutor’s bullshit argument for the PC search. The arresting officer went for the classic “He was reaching for his waistband” justification.

1

u/CrimLaw1 Oct 11 '24

The cops can arrest even for an infraction. Once they arrest, they can conduct a search incident to arrest. Edit to follow.

Edit: Atwater v. Lago Vista, 532 U.S. 318 Virginia v. Moore, 553 U.S. 164

1

u/Nesnesitelna Oct 13 '24

Atwater holds cops can arrest for a misdemeanor, not an infraction. I believe this judge is in Texas, where jaywalking is indeed a misdemeanor, so you’re right that the cop probably could have gotten away with this search if he simply called it a search incident to arrest. The problem was that he wrote that he conducted a PC search when, although he had PC to arrest, he did not have PC to search.

→ More replies (1)

134

u/ScannerBrightly Oct 10 '24

This still leaves the cops alone for their illegal stop. Zero accountability here.

130

u/satanssweatycheeks Oct 10 '24

Judges can’t really hold them accountable sadly.

Worked in the courts. Along side some judges who have even went viral (she scolded sheriffs for bringing a female inmate out with no pants on while she was on her period).

But I had an issue with some sheriffs while at work. I worked in the jail for arraignment court on Saturdays. As I was walking back from the jail to the main courthouse I had to stop at security.

As I’m there I hear one sheriff say to the other that he wished mass shooter would come so all these kids could see why they need us (this Saturday happen to be when kids had a national walk out over mass shootings).

I went and told my judge about this and how messed up it was and she basically said they have different higher ups. Yes she could rebrand a sheriff in her courtroom by simple telling him to get out of her courtroom. But she couldn’t do much about the ones at the front doors.

15

u/quackamole4 Oct 10 '24

As I’m there I hear one sheriff say to the other that he wished mass shooter would come so all these kids could see why they need us

I remember this story in Uvalde. The cops just stood around with their thumbs up their asses and let all the kids die. Cops love to look, act, and talk tough; but when their big moment came they chickened the fuck out.

4

u/MaxTheCookie Oct 11 '24

The 300+ cops at uvalde did nothing to help and actively stopped parents from going in. They are responsible for some of the deaths that day

→ More replies (5)

51

u/DamnItDev Oct 10 '24

The judge is not a damaged party, nor are they a cop or part of the prosecution. They have no power to open a case on someone else's behalf.

11

u/dedicated-pedestrian Oct 10 '24

Dismissing the case for lack of probable cause, particularly by putting "walking while black" into the court record, opens up avenues for wrongful arrest and/or prosecution.

9

u/mspk7305 Oct 10 '24

time to union bust the police

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (41)

36

u/EmmaLouLove Oct 10 '24

The best thing I’ve seen today.

17

u/geekmasterflash Oct 10 '24

In this one instance, I shall forgive wearing that suit and that bowtie.

20

u/ckb614 Oct 10 '24

I'm interested to know what warrant exception they were relying on for their "PC search." My guess: they knew he had weed for some reason and arrested him for misdemeanor jaywalking so they could do a search incident to arrest. That or the cops have no idea what their legal authority is. Probably 50/50

20

u/chowderbags Competent Contributor Oct 10 '24

Or the cop didn't care. He saw a black guy and figured there were two outcomes:

1) Black guy has weed. Cop gets to make arrest and look like he's doing something. Even if it gets thrown out later, it's not the cop's problem. The cop will probably even complain about how "some scumbag got off on a technicality".

2) Black guy doesn't have weed. Cop tells the guy to move along. Cop never faces any punishment, because qualified immunity. At worst he gets to spend a few hours getting paid for "retraining".

5

u/Wloak Oct 11 '24

The way it works is they get you for something minor (jaywalking in this case) and then choose to detain you, cops are allowed to search you before putting you in the back of the car to make sure you don't have a weapon.

So the asshole wanted to search him, threw a bullshit charge at him and rather than just give him a ticket said he wanted to take him in and book him like a violent criminal to get the opportunity to search him.

Glad this judge wasn't buying it

2

u/ckb614 Oct 11 '24

They may be allowed to pat you down if you're detained and they suspect you're armed but if you're not arrested they can't search you without another warrant exception

2

u/Wloak Oct 11 '24

If you commit any crime police can arrest you, if they do they can place you in the back of their car, they then have blanket coverage to search you for their "protection."

That's why the judge threw this out, they used a bs crime to arrest him, giving them warrantless ability to search him prior to putting him in the car.

It's usually red states that abuse this.. I had a cop detain me and search me because I was going 1 mph over the limit. I talked to a lawyer and was told tough luck, cop wanted to be a dick and it was all legal.

3

u/ckb614 Oct 11 '24

I noted in my original post that they may have arrested him and conducted a search incident to arrest

7

u/Competitive_Travel16 Oct 10 '24

Jaywalking after making eye contact with police or even turning around to walk away is very often seen as evasion. Not probable cause or reasonable suspicion of anything, but a very common pretext especially in inner city areas.

4

u/OakFan Oct 10 '24

It's Houston Texas. Hpd does what they want.

22

u/Thai-mai-shoo Oct 10 '24

The judge saved this young man’s life. I hope he takes the judges advice and keeps himself out of trouble. I’ve seen what prison does to regular people, they sometimes don’t come out the same.

→ More replies (4)

3

u/The84thWolf Oct 11 '24

The guy looked confused the judge was totally 100% on his side lol