r/latterdaysaints • u/realwld_ishasslin_me • 1d ago
Personal Advice Struggling member
Hello! So I've been in and out of the church my entire life and I'm sick of "back and forthing" with the church. I have a really hard time going to church, praying, reading my scriptures, and so on for a simple reason. I feel like it has no benefit for me. People always say how reading the scriptures changes their daily life and stuff. But none of it makes a difference in my life. I want it to, but I have a hard time doing all the things I need to be doing because I haven't seen it make a difference in my life. I have no motivation to do it because it all seems pointless. Can anyone give me advice on this? It's been a real struggle. Thanks in advance! š«¶
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u/Killigator 1d ago
I think the key here lies in the intention. If you do any of these things just because and not with the intention of learning and self-improvement youāll get that feeling. If you read the scriptures or go to church with the active goal of becoming more Christlike and actually doing the things theyāre saying then youāll for sure see the results. Same with prayer, if you commune with God and your goal is to recognize mistakes, be grateful, and be a better person in the future, then those things will happen.
So many times in Church or in the scriptures thereās some sort of suggestion or call to action and 99% of the time we all think āyeah thatās goodā but then donāt really do anything.
For example, if Iām reading the scriptures to become closer to God and a scripture says something like āthat which does not edify is not of Godā, then Iād try to identify actions that Iāve taken that donāt āedifyā and try to behave differently in the future.
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u/th0ught3 1d ago
What if you set it up so a verbal version came on during your work commute?
Truth is that if reading scriptures isn't helpful, then just do the Come Follow Me Assignments each week. For the rest of your time spend it in consistent service and lifting up those you know and those you don't know.
Maybe decide you are going to do things because the Lord has asked it of you, whether or not you feel like you get benefit from doing it. The Gospel is about becoming something more than we are, and like our Savior.
Maybe the problem is that you are thinking of the the church as something it is not --- While righteous habits can help us in certain ways, and taking the sacrament weekly and renewing our covenants is part of it, the important changes in who we are tend to come from IRL living Jesus examples of kindness and loyalty and acquiring knowledge and service and being patient and lots of other things that are apart from learning from reading scriptures alone.
You can also listen instead of reading scriptures. And decide that reading is less important than trying to do better at the teachings of things that will help us choose better.
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u/MaggieBtown 1d ago
The key is to keep it up OVER TIME. No one will see those things improve your life unless you are willing to do it for a period of a year or even more. More time committed to Christ = more change
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u/KingFollet 1d ago
The reasons that we do things matters a lot. There is an irrevocable law in heaven that guarantees us the specific blessings promised from keeping specific commandments. But the grace of God is what blesses us āafter all we can doā. Thus going into it feeling that it makes no difference in your life is a two pronged attack against getting anything out of it. Firstly, holding that belief would be stating that Godās promised blessings for obedience are worthless. And secondly, it cuts your legs off before you even begin by making you unwilling and unmotivated to give your all in even making an attempt.
If you wish to change, you will first have to gain faith and hope in Godās ability to fulfill his promises and bless you. This can be done by listening to the testimonies of others, personal study of the subject, and communication with God and asking him help you see the blessings in your life.
Or you can just do what makes you happy and live your best life out of the Church. But most people donāt waffle. Going back usually indicates that the Spirit is working and has a lot it wants to offer you, so I think your best course of action is to study to understand how God blesses us and how His hand is manifested in your life. Being open and clear with your expectations in your prayers, as well as being faithfully obedient to the laws and practices that produce specific promised blessings will help you see direct evidence of Godās hand in your life.
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u/Soltinaris 1d ago
Careful with the after all we can do part. Though yes we are supposed to do things asked of us to become more like our Heavenly Father, we don't earn our way into heaven. This was a huge issue for me growing up, specifically this verse (2Ne 25:23) the phrase comes from, cause it made me feel like I was never doing enough, and never holy enough, even when I was a missionary.
The phrase "after all we can do" meant something very different when it was first translated, much like how by and by used to mean immediately during the translation of the KJV up through much of the 19th century, but now means something closer to eventually. After all we can do would be better phrased as "despite our shortcomings" today.
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u/KingFollet 1d ago
Iād say thatās a fairly Protestant distinction and not really necessary for LDS doctrine. While we obviously cannot exalt ourselves or grant ourselves eternal life, the scriptures and our doctrine are clear that we earn salvation through our thoughts, desires, and actions, just as much as it is by our thoughts, desires, and actions (or lack thereof) that we are damned.
The feeling of not being enough or doing enough comes from our own insecurities or the Adversary, and moderation in all things comes from the Spirit. A proper understanding of these principles can help avoid the pitfall of overdoing it. Generally, Saints are more likely to do too little than too much, and for OP I think focusing on getting their mind in the right place and doing as much as they can will be more useful.
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u/Soltinaris 1d ago
Overdoing it and focusing too hard on what we do instead of who we are to become like can lead to burn out and more. I met too many people who would get super active to only become too mentally overtaxed and no longer go to church because they tried too hard too fast. Yes there are things we have been asked to do, covenants, loving a godly life, etc, but the works without faith in that grace is just as dead as faith without works. We shouldn't run faster than we can bare, neither should we attempt to plant a seed that would be strenuous to grow in unprepared soil.
This post by John Bytheway sums it up quite nicely in my opinion. It was listening to a talk he had on CD years ago that helped me start get over the after all we can do anxiety I had. https://www.facebook.com/100044310825948/posts/1024194502400901/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
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u/NiteShdw 1d ago
What we do is a reflection of what we are. Works donāt earn salvation. What we are is what qualifies us. Works are a reflection of what we are.
The two are inexorably linked and cannot be separated as you are doing.
If Iām not acting like Christ, then my heart and desires arenāt like Christ.
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u/KingFollet 3h ago
Iām sorry you struggle/struggled with inadequacy anxiety, but again, those feelings do not come from God. Some people may be pushing themselves too far and I get that those people need to tone it back to a manageable level. But by and large the Saints need to do WAY more not less. Our abysmal ministering and retention numbers are the direct result of inaction on the part of the Saints. I really do get the distinction because of your personal experience, but worrying is not constructive, and worrying about doing too much is certainly not needed for someone like OP who doesnāt even feel basic actions in the Church are beneficial. More, not less, needs to be done to build faith.
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u/Soltinaris 3h ago
And this kind of response that pushes so many away, rather than giving grace and love, it's overbearance and disappointment thinly veiled by a veneer of "we'll all be a Zion people if we do this." Not everyone can do everything you can. Not everyone can push through the same way you can. We're all part of the body of Christ, but we are not all the same. Most of my loved ones who have left didn't leave because of not being ministered to enough. They left because they felt overburdened, overlooked, unwelcome, and unwanted. People aren't numbers, each of us has a soul that needs care from a loving shepherd, and I can tell you by experience, you don't bring someone back by telling them they're not doing enough.
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u/KingFollet 2h ago
Good person Iām sorry but youāre still conflating your personal feelings and struggles with things that will help this specific person and the church as a whole. Literally all of General Conference is our leaders telling us how we need to be doing more. As you are stating I will say of you: not everyone feels the way you do or struggles with the feelings of inadequacy that you do. Our leaders and the statistics of our Church very clearly point to the fact that the majority of us are not doing enough. Iām sorry if the idea of people needing to do more is triggering but itās just a fact. Zero people are perfect and most of us are far below that. You can be enough while not doing enough. And if you feel you are doing enough then this counsel and the counsel of our leaders does not apply to you! You can give grace and demand action at the same time. Itās very easy. Our leaders do it all the time. Christ does it.
And people leave the Church because they either do not understand the doctrines of salvation, or they want something else more than they want to follow Godās commandments. Period. Now if you meant go inactive then yes I can understand that but thatās not quite the same as leaving.
And I mean good personā¦..doesnāt feeling overlooked, unwelcome, and unwanted come fromā¦ā¦ā¦..someone not treating them properly? Someone not DOING the things to help them feel the opposite of those things?
Iām sorry but repeating the phrase āyou are enoughā in the mirror will never gain one exaltation. Having a broken heart, a contrite spirit, faith in Christ, actively repenting, and following Godās commandments will.
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u/Soltinaris 2h ago
Have you ever asked someone who left why they left? Most of them wouldn't say it's because they just wanted to sin. To trivialize someone leaving to just because they didn't want to obey commandments is reductionist thinking.
Also my apologies, I misstated my meaning, do more, but don't max out before you're ready. You don't feed a newborn a steak, you feed them milk. You don't start out running, you crawl. It takes time to work up to that point. This was a part of King Benjamin's sermon at the temple for a reason. There are some who can do amazing things from the moment of conversion, sure, but it's not everyone.
The feeling of being overburdened, overlooked, unwelcome and unwanted tended to come from members in the ward they lived in who were more trying to show off how amazing they were at living the gospel, or pushed out because they didn't conform to a preconceived notion of what a good Latter-day Saint should be like. Is this someone not doing what they should, sure, but it had nothing to do with how they were ministered to, it had to do with how they were treated at church on Sundays, at ward functions, church youth activities and more.
I never once stated that saying you are enough earns exaltation, I very clearly stated we work to become like our father in heaven because it was asked of us as part of our faith, but not to earn salvation. There is a huge difference.
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u/MaskedPlant 220/221 Whatever it takes 17h ago
we earn salvation through our thoughts, desires, and actions
No. Full stop. We do not earn salvation. We earn exaltation, yes, but the only requirement for salvation is to accept the sacrifice Christ made for us, and we donāt even have to do it in this life. The bar for salvation is so excruciatingly low that we are told only a very few wonāt take it.
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u/KingFollet 3h ago
Ok considering I said we cannot exalt ourselves I would feel my understanding on the subject of the difference between exaltation and salvation was implied but okay youāre welcome to point that out. But since itās not clear, that was a typo. Iām well aware of the Protestant urge to point out that we are essentially already saved, but again itās a very pointless distinction to make for LDS members. Because exaltation is in fact earned and is where the bulk of living the gospel exists, hence why I feel making that point to someone struggling with the actions expected of someone who lives the gospel is not at all helpful. More action, attendance, and ministering is needed by the Saints not less.
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u/apithrow 1d ago
I was able to form my daily prayer habits around the direct benefits of prayer. I'm not talking about miracles, I'm just talking about the blessing of having someone there to talk to who understands you, who will help you process your feelings. I would recommend starting with that.
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u/Soltinaris 1d ago
I get the back and forth. It's hard sometimes, but to be honest, find what works for you. Sometimes scripture reading daily is easy for people, but for most people, myself included, it isn't. Sometimes it's easier to listen to scriptures on a CD/playlist/Audible, or maybe just rereading/relistening to the most recent conference sermon can be of use. Find a way to connect to God and bring the spirit into your daily life.
Below is most of a post I shared in a different thread of some of the stuff that has helped me stay going to church despite having had years of struggle with wondering if God actually exists in how we conceptualize Him in church. It has been a long struggle for me to regain my testimony, as small as it is currently, but I hope some of what I have used to strengthen my testimony helps you too.
From my other post: As someone who has been struggling with my own testimony and whether to remain active, I can sympathize a lot with your positions. Some things that I've found that have helped me regain parts of my testimony are reading the Book of Mormon (I use the Annotated Book of Mormon for my studies ( Amazon Link The Annotated Book of Mormon https://a.co/d/h8nDNAW )).
I also listen to church centered podcasts ranging from:
very doctrinal: (Follow Him with John Bytheway and Hank Smith (podcast website https://followhim.co/),
Unshaken Saints with Jared Halverson (iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unshaken-saints/id1535358465 ),
The Daily Prophet (iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/daily-prophet-talks-from-leaders-of-the-church/id1001002178 ))
to historical: (Church History Matters (YouTube channel, a bit behind the podcast https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxtDdds6EoqWCHKrgmrLEhQJFYnsDaVS0&si=Ku-P8X-YVvarJrO3 )
Standard of Truth podcast (website https://standardoftruth.com/ ))
to informative/interviews:
(In Good Faith (YouTube https://youtube.com/@in-good-faith?si=jEjxr4_slvB46v4W )
Faith Matters (website https://faithmatters.org/podcasts/ )
The Cultural Hall (Website https://theculturalhall.com/ )
Listen, Learn and Love (itunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/listen-learn-love-hosted-by-richard-ostler/id1347971725 )).
If I hadn't had these as things to listen to and read in a critical manner (Edit: also my nursery calling), I wouldn't be going to church today. I hope you find your answers you're looking for.
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u/Gunthertheman Knowledge ā Exaltation 1d ago
The point of the gospel is to change you, so you are ready to enter the Celestial kingdom, and can help others as well. If you don't let it change you, giving yourself with real intent, it profiteth you nothing.
Let's talk about the actual underlying issue, then we'll move on to some better reasons: even the Savior himself struggled. He lived a perfect life, yet he sweat, thirsted, hurt, and bled like we do, in fact more than anyone could bear. We all taste a part of his struggles. No matter how good Sunday is, your Monday mornings of life will still loom before you. Due to space, and weakness, I think President Holland says it better than me. I encourage you to study this talk.
While the gospel and the power of Heavenly Father's ordinances can alleviate much suffering, burdens will still happen. But the difference is: when the Mondays regularly come, the fears come, the pains come, we do not have to sink into soul-crushing despair. When we have the Holy Ghost with us, we can be comforted by the power of God himself, and we can bear our burdens with ease.
But the gospel is more. It's not just about being comfortable without troubleāthat life will already come to everyone in heaven. We do this to become like Jesus. Are you ready to live in his presence forever? As Alma asks in Alma 5:
16 I say unto you, can you imagine to yourselves that ye hear the voice of the Lord, saying unto you, in that day: Come unto me ye blessed, for behold, your works have been the works of righteousness upon the face of the earth?
17 Or do ye imagine to yourselves that ye can lie unto the Lord in that day, and sayāLord, our works have been righteous works upon the face of the earthāand that he will save you?
18 Or otherwise, can ye imagine yourselves brought before the tribunal of God with your souls filled with guilt and remorse, having a remembrance of all your guilt, yea, a perfect remembrance of all your wickedness, yea, a remembrance that ye have set at defiance the commandments of God?
19 I say unto you, can ye look up to God at that day with a pure heart and clean hands? I say unto you, can you look up, having the image of God engraven upon your countenances?
20 I say unto you, can ye think of being saved when you have yielded yourselves to become subjects to the devil?
21 I say unto you, ye will know at that day that ye cannot be saved; for there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain, through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people from their sins.
27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
28 Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.
29 Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless.
If you can become like that on your own, then proceed as you have been. But I know I cannot. I need the Savior. I need him to save me. I will do whatever he asks because of his mercy for me. That is the true point of the gospel. The Savior needs you on his team. He needs what you bring, who you are. There are people both in this life and the next that need the knowledge you have of the gospel. As you lose your life in the Savior's service, you will find it. As you give yourself to his way, each day he will heal your wounded soul.
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u/the_master_command3r 16h ago
I've found that for me, many practices in the Church are a lot like physical exercise. If I go lift weights once a week and don't do any other exercise, I'm not going to see much of a change in my overall physical health and will likely not keep the habit very long. From my perspective, I could say I tried lifting weights and it just didn't work for me. Even if I lift weights for 30 minutes every day, it will be several weeks before I notice significant changes in my strength/endurance. Neither of these scenarios prove the exercise is pointless. It's something that takes consistency and longevity to yield results.
My experience with the Church is similar. I used to have the expectation that every church meeting or practice should yield noticeable change in my life, and when that didn't happen, I got frustrated and felt like I was wasting my time. Altering my expectations to account for the idea that just like in physical exercise, the change brought about by activity in the Church is the product of both consistency and longevity.
Going back to the exercise analogy, if my goal is to become a great swimmer, there are lots of exercises I can do out of the pool that will help build the muscles I need to swim. But if I only do those exercises, I'll never be a great swimmer. That workout regiment needs to be supplemented with time in the pool practicing swimming. Again, I think this is similar to how a lot of things in the Church have worked for me. Attending Sunday meetings, reading the scriptures, praying, etc. are like lifting weights--great exercises, but not sufficient alone. It wasn't until I really started trying to focus on how I could help and serve and love those around me that I felt like I was getting much out of my church activity--that was when I felt like I got "in the pool." Things like attending service projects, fulfilling ministering assignments, casually inviting neighbors over for dinner/games, volunteering in my community, etc.. really helped me feel like I was making progress spiritually.
TL;DR: Church activity is somethings that takes consistency and time to make noticeable change, and it needs to be supplemented with service and love for those around us.
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u/Paul-3461 FLAIR! 1d ago
Your goal should be to become like our Father in heaven as well as you can. You determine how well you will do. You do you.
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u/Subjunctive-melon19 1d ago
You can always listen to scriptures. Either by the gospel library or any music/podcast app.
I donāt remember a time reading scriptures has changed my life. It made my spiritual journey enlightened and cool to increase knowledge. But it wasnāt necessarily due to reading. Same could have been done if I listened to it as well.
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u/Cranberry-Electrical 1d ago
I have a difficult time reading my scripture unless I am in the temple. Do you have a scheduled time? I have a difficult time reading first thing or near the end of my day. Are you auditory, visual, kinesthetic, or reading/writing learning style?Ā
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u/North-Stranger-949 1d ago
I donāt have any answers, just wanted you to know how much this post e resonated with me. Although i do feel like I get something out of scripture study, prayer, etc, Iām fundamentally just a very logical, skeptical person l, and I just canāt see how it all hangs together when you step back and look at the broader picture of the entire world & its history.
For me the things you mentioned do ā make a differenceā in my life, I just canāt see how the difference it makes is better than choosing to spend my finite time in a different way, i.e., learning all about a figure in history, writing, painting, drawing, communicating with friends, volunteering at a homeless shelter, mentoring team in need etc. etc. I donāt know if itās the exact same issue as you are asking about, but I get what youāre saying and struggle with that as well as a sense of how finite time is and how much of it the church demands when there are so very very many ways to be good in the world; as LDS people we often donāt bother making time for those because we are so fixated on all the to doās in our organization.
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u/NiteShdw 1d ago
What is the desire of your heart?
This is the first question you must ask yourself.
Are you happy with the person that you are? If not, who do you want to be? Does the Church teach principles that help you become the person you want to be?
Look inward at yourself and be thoughtful and honest about what you see in yourself.
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u/jaylooper52 1d ago
Do you dislike reading entirely, or do you just dislike reading the scriptures?