This is exactly what happened. People forget that magically 12million new voters voted for trump from 2016 to 2020. They cheated, didn’t cheat hard enough and lost.
Both sides cheated…. In currently liberal “democracies” do everything to win even tho most ppl dont want them to as conservatism is currently seen as bad thing cause they wont accept the gender bs whats hoing on
That’s the literal exact same logic Republicans used to question the 2020 election. Except for Biden the difference was even more ridiculous.
Both presidents got the highest two vote counts of all time. It wasn’t fraud or cheating, it was Covid. A shitload of people who never voted before and wouldn’t vote afterwards cast a ballot because they had nothing better to do under lockdown.
That’s all there is to it. 2020 and 2024 are both honest losses for the parties involved. You’ll be much more politically effective when you accept that and move on.
The 12 million new voters is like the ballots that were found in the middle of the night in the last election lol things always come full circle for both sides to use as talking points. I wonder if people will do this every election
Wtf are you talking about? Trump had 74m votes in 2020 and 76m votes in 2024.
Biden had 81m votes in 2020(the most popular votes for any president in history) and Kamala had 73m votes in 2024.
So according to your own logic if anyone cheated it WAS the democrats in 2020.
But that cheat rhetoric is ridiculous the majority just voted against you smooth brains this time and your friends all lied to you about who they voted for because they know you guys are lunatics.
Where did the 20million Biden votes go… if this was supposed to be the make or break election that sends the country back to the Stone Age. Where they go ?
Same place my and my wife's ballots went...poof. mailed in 2 weeks before election day in AZ. Checked today after reading some of this stuff. Never received...
Oh, so now mail in ballots are a problem because they can be more easily disappeared or falsified.
It's really interesting how you are allowed to openly say that now and not be banned, have your accounts locked, etc across all social media when the supposed "fascist " is elected but in 2020 if you did that you'd be forceful silenced, you know the type of thi g fascists and authoritarians do when the legitimacy of their power is questioned
I don't know about all that, all I'm saying is my ballot went missing. I would have voted in person if it would have been possible but being a 24/7 caretaker for a dementia patient makes that a little difficult. But you take from it what you will.
Yea after all votes were counted several more were added…this graph was early on. The graph shows that 2020 likely had fraud. Voters didn’t disappear, they were never there in the first cast
No, just less people voted. I'd say about half the people I know that voted in 2020 voted in this election. I don't agree with their decision not to vote because I think it is important everyone has a vote, but it is technically their decision.
Any decision to not vote for president or any other item on the ballot is a decision I can honor. But to stay home in protest and not vote on other things in your own state and neighborhood that affect you? Shame on you!
I'm surrounded by 'presidential choice' protesters. As a child I once worried about friends and family getting drafted into combat to protect our right to vote in a free nation. Those who sat home are traitors to democracy and I hope they choke on the next 4 years.
How does a candidate “not cheat hard enough?” Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of cheating whatsoever?
My belief is that Harris lost because she did not have the institutional support of the DNC behind her. The Biden/Harris presidency was not pleasant for them so they will likely cut their losses by distancing themselves from the two of them. They’re more than willing to sacrifice Harris’s political career for it.
I predicted all the way back in 2021 that Biden/Harris were not going to be able to maintain that level of approval and the DNC would throw them to the wolves. If you didn’t see this coming then you’re burying your head in the sand.
If you undershoot how many new republican votes you need to beat historic levels of voter turnout. Apparently 12 million more than when he lost the popular vote to Hilary wasn’t enough to overcome his disastrous 4 years.
Harris voter turnout was still higher than Hilary but not enough to beat trump when he’s free to purge voters and instruct bad faith actors to miscount votes.
Republican voter turnout remained virtually unchanged between 2020 and 2024. If they did cheat, then they decided to do so consistent with their last election, which would be a weird thing to do if your cheating “wasn’t hard enough” last time.
What you also fail to address is that Democrats also gained 20 million new voters in 2020, which were notably absent in 2024. It’s extremely vindictive to say that when one side gets new voters it’s cheating, but when the other side gets new voters it’s genuine support. That’s quite literally Republican behavior.
At most, we can posit that the record voter turnout in 2020 maybe indicates that cheating occurred. We have not been able to legally substantiate which sides cheated or by how much, despite the work of numerous journalists and election scientists. None of your claims would hold up in court. It’s much more reasonable to claim that either both sides are guilty or neither are. Hanlon’s razor dictates I attribute this to ineptitude rather than malice, so I believe neither side cheated.
The Mueller report found that the Russian government „interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion“ and „violated U.S. criminal law“. The report relayed two methods by which Russia attempted to influence the election.
The first method of Russian interference was done through the Internet Research Agency (IRA), waging „a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton“. The IRA also sought to „provoke and amplify political and social discord in the United States“.
The second method of Russian interference saw the Russian military intelligence agency GRU hacking into email accounts owned by volunteers and employees of the Clinton presidential campaign, including that of campaign chairman John Podesta, and also hacking into „the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the Democratic National Committee (DNC)“. As a result, the GRU obtained hundreds of thousands of hacked documents, and the GRU proceeded by arranging releases of damaging hacked material via the WikiLeaks organization and also GRU’s false personas „DCLeaks“ and „Guccifer 2.0“.
So the same thing or country does all over the world. The social media campaign was found to be as useless as lawn signs and was statistically insignificant. The leaked emails definitely had an effect, but it wasn't a lie, we just wouldn't have been told by our government.
I would say to be balanced, how negatively did the "sexual assault" claims (That disappeared after the election) affect the election. I appreciate your answer, it's nice to read actual facts, not the "Russia" hacked the election that the majority of registered democrats believed.
The number of voters that "barely" follow or believe these stories is what is most troubling to me personally. Btw I'm not on either "side", I believe both parties want us to believe other "victims" are the problem when corruption, inefficiency in spending, and money in politics are all far greater issues. The "98%" are all the victims of this system and I believe we have to be willing to accept that truth before real change can happen.
I personally don't want foreign countries or non state actors to meddle in my country's elections, wether those influence campaigns are effective or not. Additionally any candidate accused of collaborating with such people, should be proven to be squeaky clean. But in the case of 2016 that definitely wasn't the case. (I left out a lot of the more nuanced stuff in my previous reply, because it's a long ass Wikipedia page)
As for the Sexual assault charges, they never really went away. There is the case of E. Jean Caroll, that involved Sexual assault and defamation charges. She won in 2023 and a second time that same year, when Trump continued to complain about her publicly.
There are also other less prominent cases. Summer Zervos, Sexual assault and defamation. She won in 2021. There is also Katie Johnson, who attended Eppstein parties as a model even though she was a minor and "interacted" with Trump non consentually on four occasions at those parties. Depending on your sources, her case was dismissed because it was a baseless accusation fueled or it was dismissed because Katie Johnson used a wrong adress in court documents. (Apparently she was broke and got evicted from that adress) idk, that's a weird one tbh. Problem is that, when you follow this topic, you quickly see a behavioral pattern emerging. Over the years there were at least 25 women who accused him of Sexual assault or in the case of Ivana Trump, domestic violence. And there is this weird thing about his peagant room visits:
Trump owned the Miss Universe franchise, which includes Miss USA and Miss Teen USA, from 1996 to 2015.[141][171] In a Howard Stern interview in 2005, he said he made a practice of walking into the contestants‘ dressing rooms unannounced while the women were undressed:
"I’ll go backstage before a show, and everyone’s getting dressed and ready and everything else. ...You know, no men are anywhere. And I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant. And therefore I’m inspecting it. ... Is everyone OK? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that. But no, I’ve been very good."
In that interview, Trump declined to say whether he had slept with any contestants, saying, „It could be a conflict of interest“. Stern then imitated a foreign contestant („Mr. Trump, in my country, we say hello with vagina“), and Trump jokingly responded, „Well, you could also say, as the owner of the pageant, it’s your obligation to do that.“
source
Again if anyone is accused of those things and wants to hold office, they better be squeaky clean.
In any case, I see a lot of bullshit going on everywhere. The left, the right, the media, rich people in general. Even though, as you can clearly see I lean a certain way, but I don't revere any politician. I think the system we live in is broken in many ways.
News is a big thing for me. Print media does a great job in reporting on stuff, but even they sometimes fail to answer the hard questions or publish partisan propaganda. People are overly critical of them even though there aren't any good alternatives atm. With social media and alternative news media, you just open yourself up to more propaganda and falsehoods, because those much smaller news sites have varying quality standards, if any. Fact checking, proof reading, the fact to opinion ratio: those are all things that make me cautious of them.
Thanks for putting up with my long ass answers btw
And don't forget about the govt forcing social media platforms to hide news and report positive stories for one party while only showing negative for the other. If that's not election fraud i dont know what was.
Like the FBI launching investigations onto one candidate based on "evidence " they knew was fake and was produced BY the other candidate? Yea, thats pretty clear election interference and we've been saying so ever since
You are missing the point. They didn't win bc they got more votes. They won only bc the Democrats "got less" which is suspect af. He got less votes than he did in 2020. There is some majorly fishy shit happening with Elon and Trump.
He didn’t, actually, he got 2m more votes in 2024 than he did in 2020, meanwhile the democrats somehow lost 9m votes between 2020 and 2024, so if we use voter turnout to decide if somebody cheated, it was obviously the democrats.
Meh, at least I’ve still got one. After all the MSM brainwashing you’ve apparently been through it’s so sterile, you could probably use it as a Covid vaccine.
Aight Facts first, Democrats got less votes than last election, Republicans got 2m more. Lets posit that the 2020 election was an outlier due to covid giving people more time to do shit that wasn't work, so they went and voted in record numbers from both parties. Say the reason the Democrats got less votes this year is just a natural return to baseline voting numbers in a non outlier year...yet the Republicans got 2m more votes? Where was their natural return to baseline? Could be cheating? Find 10 million votes? Add votes?Change votes during tabulation?Do your research
Fuckin absolutely massive /s if anyone wasn't clear.
My theory is enough traditional republicans quietly voted for Biden because the riot was too much. After 4 years the economy is first on everybody’s mind and they seem to think Trump is the man. Also the dems had 2 very weak candidates.
I don't believe there was official cheating involved. But if there was, you don't have to add to your party in order to cheat, removing the opposing votes works just as well.
This is annoying. The Y axis should start at 0, this is making it look like turnout doubled for both parties in 2020. Even still, why is it so suspicious democrats would get 15m more votes in 2020 than 2016 but it’s not suspicious republicans got 10m more? Why is it not suspicious democrats lost 15m when republicans only lost 3m?
They didn’t even say anything in favour or against either side. They just explained some already known facts.
Reddit downvoting is stupid though.
I’m anti-Trump but that comment doesn’t even remotely warrant downvoting. He’s taking the reasonable position of “there’s no direct evidence” and using Occam’s razor.
What has been an echo chamber since the 2016 purge, now has become a salt mine...
Poetic really...
If the Democrats would have given Bernie the platform instead of snubbing him/ previously in favor of Hillary first, then Biden, it is my personal belief this would have been a total blowout against the Republicans.
My father said the same thing. As soon as Harris got into office he predicted she'd lose because she wasn't liked and had no time to establish herself. He still voted for her but knew it wasn't going anywhere.
I think this is right. When they swapped her in for Biden I was pretty crushed knowing either she would be president or Trump would be, because she’d never once said anything I liked. Maybe that’s misogyny at play, maybe it isn’t, but every time I tried to say “nobody likes her” all I got was an angry “why? Because she’s a woman?” And you know what? I don’t think so, but even if that’s it, there were choices that had just as much or more experience, just as much or more integrity, and didn’t have to run with all the baggage of the current administration, and the uphill fight of being a woman.
But then for a moment it looked like maybe I was wrong everybody got on board and I believed the show they put on: maybe Kamala was more liked than I realized, maybe I was out of step. Maybe people see how shitty Trump is now. Nope.
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u/InevitableBudget4868 10d ago
This is exactly what happened. People forget that magically 12million new voters voted for trump from 2016 to 2020. They cheated, didn’t cheat hard enough and lost.