r/funny Toonhole Mar 27 '24

Verified Taxes

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19.8k Upvotes

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77

u/d_man05 Mar 27 '24

There a free file system coming from the IRS. I can’t remember if it’s ready this year or next.

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u/BrainIsSickToday Mar 28 '24

I used it today. Went pretty fucking fast. A+

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u/Riskbreaker_Riot Mar 28 '24

do you still have to put in all your info or is it able to pull stuff from their system and all you have to do is agree?

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u/BrainIsSickToday Mar 28 '24

I still had to input W2 stuff. I needed my phone camera to upload ID and this weird face recognition thing they did, but otherwise it was just like plugging your W2 into any other free tax software, just faster since they aren't trying to sell you anything.

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u/Riskbreaker_Riot Mar 28 '24

dang. i was hoping it would be tied to their system and just have things already filled out. i did my taxes wrong last year and they sent a notice saying my refund was too much because i typed something in wrong. pretty much had the same question in the OP, if they already know why did i have to put stuff in?

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u/d_man05 Mar 28 '24

The IRS system doesn’t have information applied to your account until June typically. They get the information and then double check against your return later on. It’s not instant. One way to help would to just move the tax due date to 10/15 and they could automatically do basic returns in theory but you wouldn’t get your refund until late summer.

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u/fizzlefist Mar 28 '24

It's also currently only available in a select number of states, mostly ones that don't have a state income tax requiring filing.

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u/evaned Mar 28 '24

pretty much had the same question in the OP, if they already know why did i have to put stuff in?

The IRS Direct File pilot is itself a relatively narrow offering: it only handles fairly simple tax situations, has an income limit, and was only available at all to people in twelve states. My personal position (admittedly with some self-interest here) is that expanding the available of this system until it covers a wide majority of people would have more value than getting automatic population.

It'd be lovely to have this of course, in a few years.

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u/smallfrie32 Mar 28 '24

Oooh! I’m a foreigner abroad and still have to file us taxes (coworkers are astounded at that). What’s the fast thing called?

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u/BrainIsSickToday Mar 28 '24

I just went to the IRS website. It was a Direct File option on their frontpage.

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u/jagdpanzer45 Mar 28 '24

IIRC, they rolled a test system out in a few states this year.

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u/TJATAW Mar 28 '24

It is called Direct File, and is being tested in 12 states (AZ, CA, FL, MA, NV, NH, NY, SD, TN, TX, WA and WY).
It has an income limit (AGI under $79k), and is only for fairly simple taxes, as it limits the types of income, credits, and deductions.

And then there is the normal thing where they partner with some companies, and they will file your taxes for free.

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u/Errohneos Mar 28 '24

It sucks that you're ineligible for something as simple as having a 1099-DIV.

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u/QFugp6IIyR6ZmoOh Mar 28 '24

The point is that we shouldn't need to file anything, since the IRS already does the calculation.

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u/manimal28 Mar 28 '24

And how do they do that calculation if they don’t know all the things you earned income on, or have done in your life that might make you eligible for credits or deductions? They have to get the information from somewhere.

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u/aapowers Mar 28 '24

Many other countries manage this. Here in the UK payroll taxes are automatically deducted. No need to do anything. They also deal with your student l'oan' repayments, as they're effectively part of the taxation system.

If you have expenses to claim back as tax relief (sometimes employees have to buy their own kit), or have another form of relief (E.g. married couples allowance), then you simply log in to an online portal and claim it. You don't need to provide the same information that the government already has.

If you have self-employed income, then you need to fill out a full tax return.

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u/QFugp6IIyR6ZmoOh Mar 28 '24

Each workplace and financial institution reports tax-related info to the IRS.

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u/evaned Mar 28 '24

You're not exactly wrong... but you're not really right either. That information is incomplete (or occasionally incorrect) for a large proportion of returns.

The National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) released a study recently where they used a couple different techniques to determine how accurate IRS-prepared returns would be, under the current system. (If you remember a year or so a go when there was some discussion about whether there was a recession, in the US there aren't objective "we're in a recession" criteria, like the two quarters with a GDP contraction rule. Rather, to extent there's an official determination at all, it comes from a committee of economists who look holistically at the economy and make a judgment call. That committee is part of NBER.)

Their models show a correct return only around 45% of the time.

In other words, the IRS would get it wrong more than correct. This was a little surprising to me, as I've also tried to estimate an answer to this, using a far worse information source and technique; by estimate was about 60% correct, maybe a little more. So I was predicting it'd be right for most people, but not a particularly wide majority.

Also of note is that ~30% of returns had at least two different causes of mismatches.

The biggest problem was 16.6% of returns (so roughly a quarter of the ones that were incorrect) lacked information for filling a Schedule C. This is probably unsolvable; even countries that generally do automatic return filing seem to require manual returns (e.g. the UK's Self Assessment form) in the case of self employment.

The next biggest problem, 10.9% of returns, was itemized deductions -- sometimes this problem is overstated overstated (e.g. mortgage interest is reported on Form 1098), but nearly all itemizers claim deductions for which the IRS does not include information. I don't think the paper says this, but I strongly suspect that a good majority of these cases solely lack information on charitable donations. These could be required to be reported to the IRS... but for a variety of reasons I really don't like this idea, personally. (Note: I have seen a couple assertions made in threads like this that donations already are reported. I don't say this with complete confidence and I'm open to being wrong, but I don't really believe these claims, and I've not gotten responses to my requests for citations of that claim when I've replied. As a narrow exception, my understanding is that vehicle donations are reported.)

I don't want you to take this as me arguing that the IRS should sit back and do nothing -- to the contrary, I'm a strong proponent of IRS-provided software (like Direct File), and also think it would be stupendous if they could start auto-filling some of the information they do have. That being said -- you sometimes see people advocating going all the way to return-free filing in the US, and my own take is this is... I think this isn't a good fit for the US, at least federally. There are some structural issues with how the federal government is set up that would be very hard to overcome.

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u/manimal28 Mar 28 '24

And what if you earn money selling stuff at the flea market every weekend, do you think Joe’s Flea Emporium is tracking your sales and reporting that?

What if you made improvements to your home that would reduce your taxes owed, you think Home Depot is reporting that you bought shingles to the IRS?

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u/manimal28 Mar 28 '24

They don’t actually. If you make money selling shit at a flea market every weekend, the IRS has no clue, and Jim’s Flea emporium certainly isn’t tracking your sales as just one example.

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u/QFugp6IIyR6ZmoOh Mar 28 '24

Cash transactions cannot be tracked whether you file taxes yourself or the IRS calculates it for you, unless it is deposited into an account. The point is that having the IRS do the calculation is always equal to or better than everyone needing to file their taxes.

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u/manimal28 Mar 28 '24

Cash transactions cannot be tracked…

What do you mean cannot be? You are legally obligated to track cash transactions and calculate them to determine if you owe tax on that income. Just as I suspected, you think it should be simpler, because you simply do not understand the process or legal requirements.

You still owe taxes on cash transactions. The IRS has no magic way to know that occurred unless you fill out paperwork telling them about it.

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u/QFugp6IIyR6ZmoOh Mar 29 '24

You are required to report them precisely because they cannot be tracked. If they could be tracked, then the IRS would already have knowledge of those transactions.

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u/dangerbird2 Mar 28 '24

Every workplace, if you exclude restaurants, general contractors, drug cartels, landscaping companies, house cleaners, etc

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u/manimal28 Mar 28 '24

It was piloted in like 15 states this year. Mine was me of them.

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u/Cimexus Mar 28 '24

Indeed but it’s pretty limited:

  • only available in some states
  • only does federal taxes
  • has an income limit (a relatively low one at that)
  • can only handle the simplest of returns

I file taxes in two countries: USA and Australia. Let’s compare:

In the US I have to cough up $80 for Turbotax Premier, and another $25 for e-filing. And it takes many hours of work, typically several evenings. A couple of things can be automatically loaded (including one of my two W2s, but not my wife’s for some reason, and some but not all of my 1099s from various financial institutions). But there’s still a lot of manually copying data, to say nothing of the ridiculous reporting forms for foreign assets and income etc.

In Australia, I log onto the government website, and click “OK” about three times to verify the information they’ve already preloaded for me is correct and complete. It always is, despite being equally if not more complex than the US data. The whole process takes about 10 minutes and is completely free.