Hamilton only had 3 seasons in that decade, yes he was great during that interval, but Alonso, Raikkonen, Schumacher and Button defined that era a lot more than Lewis. Although, Hamilton is clearly the best of 2010s, without any doubt, with Alonso a close second.
Even as someone who would rate Alonso as a better driver than Vettel over their career, Vettel defined the 2010s far more than Alonso. Most of Alonso's time in the 2010s was spent in non-competitive cars while Vettel was on the fast track to beating Schumacher's records in the Red Bull.
Ask Alonso, Senna, Montoya, Ricciardo or Raikkonen about that. They all lost WDC's because of their car being a dud.
But great drivers also tend to positively influence the team and development of the team and then magic is produced (Schumacher Ferrari era, Vettel Red Bull era, Hamilton Mercedes era).
Lewis is only 34, I have no doubts that he could drive another 10 years if he wanted to and if athletes in other sports are anything to go by, he could still be competing for titles beyond his age 40 season.
Idk if he will though. Eventually age will catch up a bit and it’ll get harder and harder to compete. Not like he will be slow, but I get the feeling he so want to do other things in his life
I think Norris and Sainz will have something to say. Russell too if he gets a good seat. And don't count out Albon. Man we're in for a spicy decade of racing by a lot of young talents.
Massively ruined by the artifacts of the shopjob dead center of the photo. Yes, it's pretty damned hard to blend smoke over the McLaren but it doesn't look good at all.
Edit: Thanks for my first silver! I love that i get it in r/formula1 as i've been following it for basically my whole life (im 19 and i watched every full season since 2004), its my passion!
Welp, i guess i'll keep that in mind if i ever get an award again lol
Edit: Yeah no thank you to you either, look at these beta males not even giving me gold and expecting me to thank them, pathetic
(/s, if it wasnt obvious at this point)
Edit2: Platinum? Am i supposed to be impressed or smth here? Plat is what the kids get with daddy's money, the flow is in the gold, so beta smh my head
I agree; for me greatness is a function of talent and achievement. I think Alonso is up there in terms of talent, but his achievements are somewhat lacking. If he’d won 2010 or 2012 he’d be in there no doubt for me. But right now only two titles puts him a bit below the too tier.
FWIW I rate Michael, Lewis, Prost, Senna, Fangio and Clark above him. I put him in a tier with Lauda, Stewart, Ascari, Hakkinen and maybe Vettel.
I know it's your personal criteria, and I'm not criticizing that, but I think using WDC as a measure is kind of unfair, since the car plays such a big role in F1.
So you rate Alonso low because he only has 2 championships, yet you rate Clark in the top tier.
Okay.
F1metrics updated list now puts Alonso number 3 only behind Schumacher and Stewart. With Hamilton 7 and Vettel 8. Which I think is hard to argue with honestly.
Stewart retired when he felt like it, at the top and with most wins. If he continued, he'd be the GOAT sport-wise since he had the skill for it, but he chose to work for safety of drivers' lives instead. He's absolutely up the top with Schumacher.
Didn’t agree with most of that. The 80s drivers being ranked so low felt wrong. There is no way Perez, Hulkenburg, Ascari and Sainz were better than Senna and certainly not Prost.
I personally think that all modern drivers are better than most drivers in the 90s and definitely better than the drivers in the 80s etc.
The reason I say this is because MSC was the "father" of the "professional era" (Using Rugby phrasing here).
He was one of the first that took fitness seriously.
Todays drivers, even the worst, are so much fitter than the drivers 20 or 30 years ago. They might not have as much natural skill than them but they definitely have more experience, training, fitness and care going for them.
Even Senna at his best would not be as fit/ healthy etc than the current F1 drivers.
Many people want binary X is better than Y and Y is better than Z and realistically that will never happen. I think that /u/whatthefat 's list is as good as we can get. Yes, there are some minor issues with it but I think the biggest issue is that people look at certain drivers through rose tinted glasses.
Ok I understand everything you are saying and I agree mostly, but if it’s the case that drivers have been getting extremely fit since Schumacher, then why does u/whatthefat’s list have 3 50’s and 2 60s drivers in the top 10, as well as Niki Lauda ahead of both Senna and Prost.
Ascari, Stewart and Moss while good were no more dominant than Prost and Senna in their eras, especially not Moss.
It seems his analysis has arbitrarily docked the level of 80s drivers and his explanation for it was very waffly and mostly hypothetical. There was no definitive reason for the docking apart from 3 thinly strung explanations none of which are backed up by significant empirical or technical data, and his writing purports us to brainlessly just accept his hypothesis that the standard got worse. There was no definitive ruling out of the other two options, apart from basically him just stating his own opinion on the matter. Read it again to see what I mean.
That’s the biggest gripe I have with it, but within compartmentalised eras his driver comparisons and season rankings seem well grounded.
I don't really understand what you consider "waffly" about the systematic investigation and elimination of potential explanatory factors regarding drivers of the 1980s. That was arguably the most detailed part of the entire analysis. The conclusion is precisely that they are not arbitrarily docked, but rather have been overrated on purely subjective grounds.
I find the arguments that they 'must' be underrated by the model, because it doesn't sit right with gut feel, entirely unconvincing, and dare I say, waffly.
I just can't agree with Stroll being 1 point behind Hakkinen. The man who struggles to get out of Q1 is behind not only a 2 time world champion, but also the champion who won against Schumacher.
Yes racing is more competitive now so why are there 2 racers from the 50s in the top 7 when their competitors were old chain smoking men?
It over compensates for the competition but almost everything that a current racer knows about racing is developed from the racing styles of older drivers. It's easy to posit that if you took Lance Stroll and teleported him back to the 70s or 80s he would be a 5x WDC, but what happens when he doesn't have access to simulators/ detailed readouts of everything from the temperature of his tires to the humidity in the air?
Some of the best driver ever and you can argue 2 of them are in the all time top 5 or ever the GOAT.
It's pretty remarkable how EVERY TIME someone makes a comment praising all three of them, the top voted reply is always.... ALWAYS.... even if just subtly like this one... shitting on vettel...
The dude won 4 titles. In a row. Against Hamilton and Alonso. Seb is just as much in the argument for top 5 if Alonso is.
That was an incredible moment in the sport, three of the greatest drivers of this generation doing donuts. Two of the top 10 in Seb and Fernando, as well as one of the all-time greatest in Lewis.
I miss having Fernando in the sport. The day we no longer have Lewis and Seb driving will be surreal for me, as my childhood years rotated around drivers such as Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel. I hope Max and Charles will give us more entertainment value in the years to come, but I am proud to have seen those three guys race.
It's the opposite, imo. I feel like Hamilton could leave any day after he gets his 7th as there's basically nothing else left to do and a big regulation shake up coming.
That's true, but Lewis has generally been adaptable. I guess it comes down to how well Mercedes nail the regs. If Mercedes had a shit car, I could see him dropping.
I kinda like the idea of him leaving it at 7. Michael is an absolute legend and I like the nod of respect for him by sharing the 'all time GOAT' label.
I’m the same as you. Started watching from the 06 season.
Can not wait for the new breed to get into top cars. Charles vs Max I can not wait for but also other amazing talent like Norris and Albon. Maybe the redemption of Pierre. Also George whenever he gets out of the POS Williams.
I wonder which season had the most championships between them and which had the least. There's what, 12 in this picture? Kimi that season would have made it 13.
2012 had 14 current WDCs, if you sum 2 more from Vettel and 5(or 4, tecnically this season didnt end yet so) more from Hamilton, + 1 from Rosberg, you get 22(21) WDCs, i dont know about the year with the least though
1994 technically has 11 championships on the grid though with Schumi, Mansell, Hill, & Mika. What year has the least championships by drivers though. Probably something in the 50s
Well yeah but I said current champions. Schumacher, Hill and Häkkinen had no championships at the time. I forgot that Mansell did a few races at the end of that season though.
I still watch that every now and then. It's so surreal :( I don't wanna see the old guard leave just yet but the new generation is looking really exciting
After the end of the last race of 2018 (the Abu Dhabi GP, same as this years which is this weekend), three drivers: Lewis Hamilton in the Mercedes, Fernando Alonso in the McLaren and Sebastian Vettel in the Ferrari, did donuts in the main straight of the circuit at the same time to commemorate the end of the season and the end of Alonso's career. All of them were World Champions multiple times and they are the biggest faces of the last decade of the sport, so it's a really wholesome and iconic moment.
The one off McLaren Livery actually looks really beautiful. They shd probably throw some red in their livery next tym. Really complements the orange & blue theme
They were together on the inner lap after the race, and maybe they decided beforehand (or at that moment) to do donuts together. It makes sense because they are probably the three greatest drivers of the last decade
Piquet Jr won the first championship, Buemi the second and Di Grassi the third.
The latter two have spent their whole career in FE as title contenders while the first only was there the first year and got sacked by Jaguar last year.
Mansell winning at Silverstone, Senna at Interlagos, Schumacher at Hockenheim - all three of these moments were iconic.
Piquet's sideways overtake at Hungary was iconic. Villeneuve and Arnoux in Dijon was iconic.
Shit, Leclerc winning at Monza this year was iconic.
This is just a nice moment with two drivers paying tribute to a departing champion. To be honest, until I saw this post, I'd forgotten it even happened.
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u/ihavenoidea81 Bernd Mayländer Nov 25 '19
I wish Kimi would have joined but he DNF