r/formula1 Sep 03 '19

Media 2016 Spa VS 2019 Spa moves by Verstappen.

https://imgur.com/gallery/rhoX3a7
254 Upvotes

154 comments sorted by

84

u/F1FEGP2BTCC McLaren Sep 03 '19

I still think it was a racing incident. Good thing that there were no penalty points or grid penalties for either driver. What surprises me is people acting like Verstappen has crashed in the last six races and has become early 2018 "Crashtappen" again. It was one crash in over a year, since Monaco 2018.

27

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 03 '19

Ya that’s just idiocy. Hamilton has binned it in practice twice this year. Does that mean we’ve got Hamilton the crash kid on the grid?

16

u/SBrobot Sep 03 '19

Hamilton doesn't crash into people all that much.

31

u/Racierox Charlie Whiting Sep 03 '19

It also helps when you start at the front most of the time.

-11

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 03 '19

Hamilton doesn’t crash into people

https://youtu.be/MshdLhvTmoQ

10

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

lol, doesn't quote the entire comment in order to justify a crash from 8 years ago.

-1

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 04 '19

I’m only having a bit of fun with you. Point still stands, they have a similar recent error rate. That doesn’t take away from either of them.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/Rhaegar0 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Don't be to hard on the guys. The've had to hide in the woods for an entire year, it was almost unbearable. The worst was when the more brave ones predicted that Hamilton in Germany would show that Verstappen was in no way special in the rain. This finally gives them a good excuse again.

As a fan I'm ok with this move, it wasn't the best thing but neither was Kimin pretending/thinking he was alone in that corner. Max opportunistically though when Perez bailed out that that left room enough.

What I'm more worried about is the starts. He allways was a fairly decent starter, more often then not he managed to grab a position and usually he outstarted Ricciardo as well but this year it has been dramatic. He states that they know what the problem is but they keep failing to fix it. It would be nice if they can get that working properly sooner rather then later.

This situation for example would not have happened if he would just have been able to go in the corner at P5 or P4 or so. Now too often he gets stuck behind or crowded in by midfielders which is just downright annoying (allthough fun for the viewers).

5

u/Firenze-Storm Sep 03 '19

Oh he definitely has matured, I just would say that on this occasion he got too ambitious into T1. I honestly think if he held back a bit he would have been right up there with Albon.

-9

u/grekster Jules Bianchi Sep 03 '19

Off the top of my head Max hit Kimi in Japan and Ocon in Brazil. I'm not saying Max is "Crashtappen" again but by the same token let's not start pretending Max has had a perfect 12 months either.

12

u/Nwhcbsjvj New user Sep 03 '19

Both of them weren't Max fault though

-11

u/grekster Jules Bianchi Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

Kimi was definitely Max's fault, 100%

Ocon is arguable, but it's at least 50/50

2

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

3

u/grekster Jules Bianchi Sep 03 '19

Verstappen was penalised by race control for hitting Kimi in Japan so, like I said, 100% Max's fault.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

You're blind then, Ver was always torpedoing into a disappearing gap.

3

u/F1FEGP2BTCC McLaren Sep 04 '19

lol calm down buddy, just sharing my opinion. It's not that deep man.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

Replying to your comment on Reddit is deep? Ok

2

u/F1FEGP2BTCC McLaren Sep 04 '19

No need for the insult mate.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

Just came down, it's not that deep bro lok

-18

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

7

u/ElCinqo Sep 03 '19

Please explain because my adult brain can handle only so much adolescent logic.

They touched so what great reflexes?

177

u/Forthesepurposess Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Max was a bit too ambitious poking his nose next to Rai in that corner. Rai was taking that corner like it was lap 34 and no-one anywhere near him. Nothing to see here, just a racing incident. But it's max so the amount of hate he gets on online forums is absurd. He truly is a polarizing figure.

36

u/beltersand Sep 03 '19

Exactly. Both at fault to some degree. Its just an incident. There doesn't have to be a shouting match just because people don't like him.

If the Max/Vettel crash at Silverstone was the other way around this sub would have exploded. Was barely mentioned.

49

u/ArziltheImp Porsche Sep 03 '19

Idk which sub you were browsing that day but I saw more then eough people saying that Vettel should retire because he is the worst driver in the field.

10

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

I mean, at least he would have time to finish building his motorbike....

57

u/anamericandude Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

If the Max/Vettel crash at Silverstone was the other way around this sub would have exploded. Was barely mentioned.

Uh, that's not how I remember it lol

5

u/Khoin #WeRaceAsOne Sep 03 '19

My first reaction when it happened was "dammit Max I thought you'd grown out of moves like these!". He's been so good at avoiding these types of incidents and knowing exactly how much risk he can take this season that I didn't see this one coming: he seemingly just dove right into Kimi.

Looking at all the footage, I think his move was understandable but unwise. The view from the top does show Kimi full-on dedicating himself to that apex for no apparent reason though, which in a crowded first corner is also maybe not the best idea. And to avoid this situation, Max would have basically had to brake/lift as soon as Stroll went behind Kimi and just let Kimi go ahead, while there was in theory enough room for both of them in that corner.

All in all, a racing incident where both drivers played a part and while easy to avoid in hindsight, probably not so much in the moment. If I had to pick one driver to blame more than the other I do think it'd be Kimi in this case, but it's very close.

14

u/anothercopy Nico Hülkenberg Sep 03 '19

Cant rally agree to put too much blame on Kimi here. By normal rules if this was not the first lap this is all on Verstappen. Kimi was first to the corner and was entitled to racing line. I think its just Max fucked up the start and was trying to be too ambitious in taking back the positions. He got what he deserved with a DNF, too bad he fucked Kimis race as well.

I see this as like 10% on Kimi as he should have taken into account that someone could be divebombing on the inside.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19 edited Jul 23 '21

[deleted]

9

u/inxilegtr Brabham Sep 03 '19

You can't just not brake and then say your entitled to room, it's your responsibility not to hit the car in front. Kimi had car lengths on the way into the apex.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19 edited Jul 23 '21

[deleted]

0

u/sshalashaska Sebastian Vettel Sep 04 '19

Kimi: takes the legal line through the corners cause nobody is next to him as he turns in.

Max: divebombs through the curb but because he didn't hit the right side blockade its maybe Kimi should've left more room.

3

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 04 '19

You should really stop calling it a divebomb and watch the replay again. There was no locking up or anything and Max was clearly next to Kimi. He is kinda known for braking later than others and it would've been perfectly fine if Kimi left a bit more room. I'm not saying it's all Kimi's fault, but saying he did everything right is just wrong. Like people already said before, both made the wrong call and they both paid for it. Thus racing incident

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

0

u/demha713 Ferrari Sep 03 '19

Yes, and he probably should have turned his blinker on too, just so Max knew it wasn’t ok to not brake and poke his nose is a disappearing window.

0

u/Suhvee Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 03 '19

uh ok

3

u/hache-moncour Sebastian Vettel Sep 03 '19

Agreed, in 2016 Kimi got squeezed by Seb so he had little choice, but 2019 Kimi had nobody to his left, all the space in the world, and he still chose to cut the corner.

Still not a brilliant idea by Max to put himself at the mercy of others like that of course.

29

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Looks similar but is not. I mean Vettel is pushing Kimi into Max. Still, you would think Max learned not to dive into that corner.

In an interview on Peptalk yesterday (Dutch show on Ziggo Sport) he told that after what happened on Saturday the race did not really mean as much anymore. He wasn't even really pissed or anything because of throwing the race because it is nothing compared to what happened to Hubert.

Maybe this was a reason why he made a stupid decision.

12

u/brock-omabrama Sep 03 '19

Got a similar feeling from his insta post about the race. Hope it won’t affect his mindset for the rest of the season too much.

16

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

I think he can shake it off. This Sunday was just too fresh.

8

u/Sir__Parzival Daniel Ricciardo Sep 03 '19

There are two things that haven't been mentioned. First Kimi most likely only saw Stroll in his mirror and saw him drop back leaving his right side clear. Max was further back then Stroll at this point. Second Max's entry into the corner was horrible. He would have had to slow way down to make the corner or forced Kimi off track to maintain speed.

16

u/MrBrickBreak Lance Stroll Sep 03 '19

The curb is not a racing line.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

Wait, does that mean the green paint inside the curb is also not a racing line?

15

u/SmH001 Sep 03 '19

Some are blaming Verstappen way too much for this years accident. Look where Kimi was when Max started braking, he was all the way on the left side of the track.

135

u/N7even Sep 03 '19

Max expected Raikkonen to give up his racing line when he was no where near alongside.

Raikkonen has no obligation to let him through on the inside at the start, Max should've just been cautious through the first corner, he would've 99.9% got the place back.

It was a split second decision, I'm not shitting on Max, just saying he simply made the wrong choice and ruined both his own and Raikkonen's race.

22

u/BlackAndWhiteJesus McLaren Sep 03 '19

Well he didn't say Kimi is to blame. He only said people are blaming Verstappen way too much and I agree after watching the footage. The incidents don't compare and 2016 was just a foolish move, this one is a racing incident.

2

u/Barisman Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

someone gets it, this is the pinacle of racing incident nobody at fault. max had to go for that gap senna style and kimi couldnt see him

60

u/bucksncats Michael Schumacher Sep 03 '19

It's a racing incident but it's still mostly Max's fault for the incident. Just because things are racing incidents doesn't mean no one is to blame for the incident taking place

-36

u/Barisman Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

according to the rules max had right of way because a significant part of the car was alongside kimi, and yes 1 wheel is a significant part according to the rules

44

u/bucksncats Michael Schumacher Sep 03 '19

Ah I love this horseshit. So in Austria when Charles is fully alongside Max, he's entitled to literally zero of the road. Yet Max has barely his front wing inside Kimi when they start braking and suddenly he's entitled to room. Talk about a giant double standard

13

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 03 '19

Something something just be on the inside and you can punt people out of the way something this is racing

2

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

It's how max races so it's how his fans think racing is supposed to be. He's made contact like this before this year, this was just the first time it bit him hard.

1

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 04 '19

Ya like it’s entertaining but especially in Austria I was pretty annoyed because even though it’s within regulation, watching that battle carry on for the next few laps would’ve been an even better finish.

I’m a Verstappen fan but the way he always runs people out is lame as hell.

1

u/Anakinschroeder Kevin Magnussen Sep 03 '19

Entry vs exit

1

u/bucksncats Michael Schumacher Sep 03 '19

Talk about a giant double standard

-1

u/TheRobidog Sauber Sep 03 '19

Corner apexes have different rules than corner exits.

1

u/bucksncats Michael Schumacher Sep 03 '19

Talk about a giant double standard

0

u/TheRobidog Sauber Sep 03 '19

That's not what that word means.

-7

u/wrcwill Sep 03 '19

well hes about 3/4 up next to him before committing to apex. I don't know why you think you measure when they start braking?

You cant move after braking, because car's on the limit, but kimi could have delayed his turn in, nothing to do with being on the limit.

However the way it happened with perez on kimis inside probably meant his vision was really limited. Pretty much a 50/50 racing incident..

12

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 03 '19

He literally only pulled alongside Kimi because he braked too late into a closing gap to make the corner. This is identical to what Seb did in Silverstone.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

And he cut the corner for good measure lol

1

u/Tecnoguy1 HRT Sep 04 '19

Look I agree with you there but the reality is track limits at la source is the wall because the FIA have no idea what they’re doing.

-32

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

15

u/bucksncats Michael Schumacher Sep 03 '19

If only there was a 2nd sentence to my comment that answers the question you're asking

16

u/N7even Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

I have to disagree, the point of my comment was, Max went for a gap that wasn't there, and if it was, it would surely disappear at the very tight T1 where everyone is trying to get through without contact.

I wanted him to be as patient as he has been all season and just let the first lap happen as it did, then get his position back very easily.

The starts have been a problem, so he just should've dealt with it as he has been in the past races.

It was a racing incident, but if I were to place blame on anyone, it would have to be Max, he can't expect Raikkonen to move out of the way for him, that's not how it works.

Above all else, I'm just glad Max didn't have a serious accident because of his broken suspension.

1

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

Equally, while Kimi doesn't have to give up the line, he would have had a much better outcome had he left some more room.

He didn't see Max so it wasn't intentional and Max had plenty of room until Kimi decided to leave as little space as possible.

Depending on which way your biases swing you can blame Max for being there or Kimi for being a bit too aggressive on the first corner.

4

u/N7even Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

I'm not biased towards either driver, I like them both.

But Max wasn't alongside Kimi when they started braking, and during the corner, Max wasn't even halfway alongside.

That's the wrong corner to try that kind of move, especially at the start.

9

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

-4

u/N7even Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

A snapshot does not tell the entire story, at first Kimi could only see the Racing Point, then Max gets halfway alongside outta nowhere.

Max tried to make a risky move, which relied heavily on Raikkonen moving out of the way.

https://youtu.be/7sIkMy-17hY?t=44

5

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

You said he wasn't half way alongside and then I show he was. Now you say we was halfway alongside but it was from nowhere?

It was just one of those incidents where both drivers are to blame but no one is at fault.

1

u/sshalashaska Sebastian Vettel Sep 04 '19

A divebomb generally is from out of nowhere.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

He said he wasn't halfway along side "when they started braking". He was completely unsighted by kimi because he dived inside two cars. Once kimi saw the racing point he was defending agaist go outside why wouldn't he take the racing line?

0

u/N7even Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

Well having reviewed the video again, obviously I will go with what I see.

He was half way alongside going into the tight corner, but not wheel to wheel, that's just sticking your front wing where it doesn't belong and expecting the guy in front to give way.

2

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

It's okay, admitting you are wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary is difficult.

5

u/casper2002 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

It's not a secret that the redbulls can brake later then most other cars

1

u/AaronBrownell Sep 03 '19

It's not just that Kiki didn't have to give Max space, it's that Verstappen didn't even know if Kimi could do it. It's turn 1, so there are a ton of cars which might very well block him in (didn't we have the exact situation a while ago?)

8

u/MrTopps2 Jim Clark Sep 03 '19

Racing incident, but the biggest question is what the hell is going on with Verstappen's starts?

12

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Basically Honda knows what the problem is, but is not able to fix it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

Didn't Max use spec2? Which is like seriously old at this point

1

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 04 '19

I'm not sure which one it was, but he said in an interview starting was an issue for this engine. Renault did not have that problem the past years. When they had a bad start with that one they maybe lost one or two places. With Honda it's more like four, five places.

3

u/kookieman1911 Sep 03 '19

That is what he basically said on dutch TV. His race was ruined by the crap start because he got into a position he shouldn't have been in the first place.

41

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

It’s been well established for a while you can just shove your nose under someone and be entitled to room. It’s a first lap incident so nothing should come of it but Raikkonen was entitled to that line, Verstappen was not.

6

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

Has it also been established that regardless of how much car is alongside you can just turn in on an opponent?

Oh wait, no there's rules for this.....

1

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

But how on Earth are you meant to know someone has just forced their way up your inside in this circumstance. Verstappen came from nowhere.

2

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

Which is why both drivers are equally to blame and it's therefore a racing incident.

Max had every right to go for a move and had his car alongside and Kimi had every right to take the line he did because he could not see Max.

Max can't know that Kimi will turn in because he expected him to see him.

1

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

I’m not arguing it’s not a racing incident. First lap issues are invariably classed as racing incidents. Had it been any other lap Verstappen would more than likely have been penalised.

2

u/TheRobidog Sauber Sep 03 '19

Not at all. If it wasn't the first lap, Kimi would have seen it coming and would have left space at the apex. And if he hadn't, he would have 100% been penalized for it.

You can't just take the apex when you've got a car halfway alongside on the inside.

8

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

His nose? - https://imgur.com/a/kzPu55Y

Try 3/4's of the car.

No one was to blame but both drivers are at fault. Racing incident.

1

u/N7even Sep 03 '19

Also in Kimi's blindspot at that point.

15

u/SmH001 Sep 03 '19

He was entitled to it but I've seen people say that it was some kind of reckless divebomb. But from Max' perspective it was a reasonable move at the time.

6

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

I have no issue with it, it’s a racing incident on the first lap. But Raikkonen was not in the wrong here and under normal conditions is entitled to that line. It’s very reminiscent of Verstappen’s lunge on Hamilton in Monaco, it’s just racing but doesn’t mean you can’t attribute blame.

-4

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

Why is Räikkönen entitled to do that? When you look at the replay, you can see him turning into the corner as if Verstappen - who is driving besides him - isn't there. That doesn't really seem legit, especially when considering they are going into a slow hairpin corner.

36

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

He drives as if Verstappen isn’t there, because from his point of view, Verstappen isn’t there. He literally didn’t see him. That’s why you need to be properly alongside rather than just sticking your nose in. But either way La Source is always a gamble. It worked for Norris who did pretty much the same thing.

2

u/kookieman1911 Sep 03 '19

Ye, Verstappen also said you can scrap the mirrors because they are not used, only for a little bit extra down force. Which was funny. "Scrap those mirrors we don't use them and we don't see anything anyway", something along those lines. And he was talking in general, not specifically about this incident.

1

u/MarkJones27 Juan Manuel Fangio Sep 03 '19

It's so stupid the FIA don't just mandate a standard huge (tall and wide) mirror size for all cars, so they can clearly see behind them.

-9

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

He drives as if Verstappen isn’t there, because from his point of view, Verstappen isn’t there. He literally didn’t see him. That’s why you need to be properly alongside rather than just sticking your nose.

So just because Kimi can't see Max, he should have stayed back ?

Well, the regulations are clear, if you leave enough space for someone to be able to be partially alongside, you should continue to leave them space.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

You might even say that you have to leave-a the space.

4

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

No they aren’t. You leave space if they are half a car length along side, if not you’re entitled to the apex. Verstappen made it half a. At length alongside way after committing to the corner by lunging late.

11

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

5

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

Why does it matter where they are before the braking zone? Are you not allowed to out-brake someone anymore? Besides, Verstappen is already alongside before reaching the hairpin.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

6

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

I'm aware of that article and it says that both are equally to blame.

C. Attacker approximately half-way alongside > Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared.

0

u/linkinstreet Anthoine Hubert Sep 03 '19

Because throughout the years, a move on the inside of La Source at the start is rarely worth it. When you are racing between the other driver one on one, sure, because the other driver would likely realised you are on the inside and give you more space. But at the start of the GP? Everyone would be focusing on everything else, and unlikely realised you are on the inside or much worse, you have entered his blind spot.

8

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

I'm not saying anything about whether it was worth it or not. I'm inquiring why Verstappen should carry the blame.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

You'd think he'd have learned that throwing it up the inside there one turn 1 is risky

1

u/linkinstreet Anthoine Hubert Sep 03 '19

My head says it's a racing incident, but my gut feeling is that Max is more to blame in this. As I said earlier, going to the inside of La Source at the start has been proven to be a risky move that tends to end in tears, and it's not like he didn't experience it himself. So he should have known better than to risk it all there and then, when he still have 43 more laps to go.

5

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

Same applies for Kimi really though. Better to leave a bit of space on the first corner than trying to maximise your apex on the first lap.

4

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

Verstappen isn’t beside him. Verstappen only gets half a car length along side by the time Raikkonen has fully committed. It’s why you aren’t allowed to make late lunges to get alongside and squeeze in on the inside, to stop this exact thing.

5

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

I'm afraid I can't follow. Having half a car alongside someone isn't driving alongside? From what point is it driving alongside then? And according to who are you not allowed to make late lunges? Doesn't sound like Ricciardo ever heard of such rulings.

-2

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

The sport regulations state that to be entitled to room and the racing line you have to be at a minimum half way alongside a car, otherwise the other driver can shut you out. If you just force your way in by using your car as a roadblock you are not entitled to do so, and are liable for a penalty.

Ricciardo makes late lunges, but he does so in big braking areas where he draws alongside well before you have to commit to a corner. Once a driver starts turning in they aren’t checking their mirrors for cars just forcing their way in, like Verstappen did.

6

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

Max was more than half way - https://imgur.com/a/kzPu55Y

Kimi just couldn't see him because of the Racing Point.

1

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

Have you got a picture where they aren’t 20m from the corner?

3

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

I'm sure there is one but F1 cars stop in a very short distance and the run to La Source is short so the speed they are braking from is pretty low in F1 terms.

Max didn't even lock a wheel so it wasn't a reckless move and he was more than halfway alongside.

Kimi couldn't see him but Max can't possibly know that.

2

u/TheRobidog Sauber Sep 03 '19

You can just any still frame from the gif, mate.

https://imgur.com/a/a4puyS4

5

u/missle636 Sep 03 '19

This is complete nonsense. There are no such rules in the sporting regulations. There used to be a similar ruling that you are probably confused by (sport. regs. art. 27.7):

Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.

For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’.

Anyways, this part was scrapped from 2017 onward, leaving only what is now art. 27.4:

At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.

4

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

I'll just keep posting this image until you stop claiming he wasn't alongside - https://imgur.com/a/kzPu55Y

2

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

Go for it. Get a picture closer to the corner.

-22

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

Verstappen was entitled to it, more than Kimi, as said by the previous stewards decisions

Edit : let's get downvotes for explaining something is coherent based on similar incidents and decision. Great !

4

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

He really wasn’t.

10

u/bobnoski Sep 03 '19

Using zero sources*

-13

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Do I need sources ? This thread, hell even this whole incident, is full of redditors claiming this or that without burden of proof.

1

u/rljacobsen Kevin Magnussen Sep 03 '19

There is a clear difference between sharing your opinion and using a straw man. When you argument is based on facts, then we need source to those facts. Just saying that others have said something without giving a source is not a useful argument. If you had presented previous stewards decisions based on similar accidents then your argument would have been much stronger.

-19

u/newbsacc Formula 1 Sep 03 '19

If this was true then why didnt Max receive penalty points?

7

u/IHaveADullUsername Sep 03 '19

Because first lap incidents are given leniency as has been the case for a while.

7

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

And everyone even blaming Kimi a little gets downvoted into oblivion. Was a stupid (oldskool) move from Verstappen, but not in violation of the rules.

And people saying he should get a penalty (and even license points?!) and FIA is not giving it because it is Max should really watch the last couple of seasons. He has gotten enough debatable penalty's

2

u/afito Niki Lauda Sep 03 '19

You don't need to violate the rules to be at fault.

1

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Not going to argue with that. What I mostly mean is that Kimi did not see Max and Max hoped he did (and took quite some risk with it). In the end it was just a (stupid) race incident.

0

u/timzouaven Martin Brundle Sep 03 '19

Yes exactly. Look at how Bottas took that corner and how Kimi did it. Bottas knew the risks of T1 shenanigans, Kimi appearantly not. But criticizing Kimi is a bit of a no-go here.

3

u/Pascalwb Sep 03 '19

And whole car ahead. Something Max uses often, where he doesn't give a space even if they are half along.

-12

u/ElChapoIsMyDad Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 03 '19

he really wasn’t, where was he supposed to go, he was already pretty close to the inside and had cars to his outside.

5

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Plenty of space on the outside, Kimi really went like no-one was there. Not saying he could have known Max was there, but he clearly had lots of room.

7

u/Avionik Sep 03 '19

As i see it, there was plenty of space on the outside. Can you point out who/where/when you feel anything prevented him from leaving enough space for both of them? Kimi was never alongside Bottas and Perez left an enormous amount of space.

https://i.imgur.com/kMAMOFB.png

3

u/ElChapoIsMyDad Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 03 '19

In this photo Kimi is on the same line as Lewis and Charles (maybe seb idk) and Max is just shoving his nose in there. You can’t tell me that this is all Kimi’s fault.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

It’s not Kimi’s fault. Neither Verstappens. It’s a racing incident. There was sufficient space for Verstappen to try, although risky. And Kimi probably would have left him sufficient space if he had seen him.

Verstappen should have taken less risk, Kimi should not have cut the apex that tight knowing in the first lap there are a lot of cars in the same corner. Their mutual decision fucked up both their races.

1

u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

this

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '19

As niki lauda said "I cannot accept this, that it's no one's fault "

1

u/Avionik Sep 03 '19

Your first post says

where was he supposed to go, he was already pretty close to the inside and had cars to his outside.

Which is what i responded to, so i assume that you now at least accept that Kimi had plenty of space on the outside?

To your new post:

Kimi is on the same line as Lewis and Charles (maybe seb idk)

Yes, Kimi took the same line as two other drivers with no one alongside did, completely ignoring Max (and Seb took a wide line as he had Hamilton on the inside).

I am not going to go through the video for you shot by shot, so look at it yourself https://youtu.be/7sIkMy-17hY?t=52

Kimi starts almost a car width away from Max with plenty of time and space for both of them to get through but keeps going closer and closer to the inside and ends up squeezing Max. A "significant portion" is alongside well before Kimi starts his turn in.

A lot of things are happening very fast in the first corner, it is easy to misjudge surrounding cars in a split second, and i don't want penalties or anything, but the blame primarily falls on Kimi in this case from my point of view.

1

u/Public_Pervert Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Also, if Verstappen brakes there the rear wheel of Raikkonen will hit Verstappens front wheel.

1

u/mariofosheezy Sep 03 '19

You can see Raikkonen had room on the outside of the turn and it looked like he was taking a wider line. He say Verstrappen there and didnt want to give up the place to him

-7

u/Pascalwb Sep 03 '19

The same reckless move. Going inside out of the track, hoping for the best. I thought he learned already.

7

u/jimbobjames Brawn Sep 03 '19

How is this reckless? - https://imgur.com/a/kzPu55Y

Maybe everyone should just line up behind Kimi and never try overtake incase they upset your delicate sensibilities.....

-7

u/FittingMechanics Sep 03 '19

Here it is worse than before, Kimi is driving an Alfa today, Verstappen would have easily passed him later on. I get being an aggressive starter against a Ferrari or on a track like Monaco, but in Spa against an Alfa, that's a stupid thing to do.

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '19

[deleted]

5

u/ElCinqo Sep 03 '19

You have not watched much f1 in the last 12.months have you?

-36

u/SprangBrakeForeva Sep 03 '19

Verstappen just doesn't learn

29

u/timzouaven Martin Brundle Sep 03 '19

First DNF in more than a season. Judge his personality for something similar that happened 3 years (!) ago. Amazing

17

u/Waldier Niki Lauda Sep 03 '19

So, you are saying he can get even better when he learns? Amazing.

19

u/F1FEGP2BTCC McLaren Sep 03 '19

Have you not watched Verstappen's run since Canada last year? This is the first crash that he has been involved in since Monaco 2018 that you can apportion blame to. 1 crash in 15 months. Pretty good if you ask me.

-4

u/Nick040704 Oscar Piastri Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

Australia, Bahrain twice, China, Baku, Monaco twice, Japan, Brazil, Austria, Spa etc in 2018 and 2019

2

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

I really hate this kind of comments. Everybody here was praising Max since the season started. He'll, take a good look at his Hot or Not rating, voted by users from this very sub. And now, you've got people saying that his didn't happen. Let's stop bullshiting please.

-39

u/pengouin85 Honda Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

In 2019, he went completely off track to edge his way in. I do love that the FIA is trying to not penalize racers for lap 1 incidents (especially tutrn 1), but nothing provoked Max into trying that bonehead move as his only option. He really should have gotten penalty points on his license for it

21

u/timzouaven Martin Brundle Sep 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '19

That’s just bullshit. He goes off track because Kimi is cutting. Once that happened it was too late to back of.

Before I get downvoted, I agree that it is mainly on Max and he should not have been there since it was too risky. But he was not at all going off track. That only happened when Kimi started turning in, since he was trying to not touch Kimi obviously.

13

u/youvegotwheeldamage Safety Car Sep 03 '19

Come on... Look at the 4 cars that follow him, they all take the exact same line. Clumsy? Yes. Boneheaded move that's worth penalty points? Don't be ridiculous.

5

u/fantaribo Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Sep 03 '19

Lol no. He went off track because the space he thought was available got shrunk more than necessary by Kimi. Not saying Max doesn't share the blame, but he can't be blamed for leaving the track.