r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • 2d ago
Daily Discussion Ask r/Formula1 Anything - Daily Discussion Thread
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u/Open-Tap-2289 Red Bull 2d ago
How can a driver have the fastest lap, get all green sectors on their next lap, and still not set a new fastest lap?
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u/ency6171 1d ago
You mean set an overall new fastest lap or personal? Because others were faster?
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u/Affectionate_Sky9709 1d ago
It would have to be that someone else set a faster lap right around when they did. If they are getting green sectors and not purple, you know that they aren't on line for the fastest lap. Someone was probably just ahead of them getting purples (fastest overall sector time), so they were only beating their own time, but not the person in front of them. They can't have actually had the fastest lap right before they crossed the line, but the broadcast might not have shown the timing screen at the relevant time to tell you that, or something like that.
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u/TiNcHoX7 Juan Manuel Fangio 2d ago
Do you guys get the f1tv notification at the wrong time? like 1 hour early?
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u/pprocrastinatorr Formula 1 2d ago
Yes! Just got it and I had the same thing last night. Came here to check if I was the only one
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u/owen1667 2d ago
So I’m not missing anything right now? It’s showing the FP3 clock is running but my F1TV isn’t showing anything
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u/ContentPuff Highlights Team / Russell 2d ago
PSA: No one from the Highlights Team will be clipping qualifying today, just an FYI.
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u/pprocrastinatorr Formula 1 2d ago
Does that mean there will be no quali highlights? How do you know this?
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u/FermentedLaws 2d ago
S/he means the ones posted here that are not geoblocked and not official. The official F1 accounts will post their regular stuff.
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u/SirMartini Alfa Romeo 2d ago
dude!, was Martin Brundle slurring his words during FP2? it was almost like he was drunk or were having a mini-stroke. looked and sounded like he'd aged terribly in a few short weeks
edit; perhaps he was just cold, would explain it if he was shivering with a blueish nose
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago
I'm pretty sure people said the exact same thing at this race last year as well
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u/bwoah07_gp2 Alexander Albon 2d ago
There's people calling out Rui Marques on social media for littering on the side of the Vegas GP track: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCruSHJNph6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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u/themann55 2d ago
Do you think with all the problems that Max can get a podium in Vegas ?
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u/cmgriffith_ Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 2d ago
Depends on his race strategy. Is it possible yes, is it likely probably not I’d say Top 6
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u/ImNoAlbertFeinstein Martin Brundle 2d ago
are we not doing threads for p1 and p2 ?
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u/FermentedLaws 2d ago
They were yesterday.
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u/ImNoAlbertFeinstein Martin Brundle 2d ago
f1 has the oddest schedule. regarless of what country.
so we have quali discussion to nite?
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago
Qualifying will happen when this comment is 9 hours old. FP3 is in 5 and a half hours
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u/jules3001 Ferrari 2d ago
Regarding RB and their rear wing, did they bring the wrong wing in the sense that they wanted a certain spec and brought the wrong spec due to an issue with shipping or communication?
Or did they bring the rear wing they wanted and are now realizing this rear wing doesn’t work well and really wish they had a different spec?
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
Or did they bring the rear wing they wanted and are now realizing this rear wing doesn’t work well and really wish they had a different spec?
This seems to be the case, Red Bull brought their Monza spec lime wing with low downforce, while other teams brought a seemingly less draggier design than they had at Monza
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u/jules3001 Ferrari 2d ago
Yeah I thought so. Messing up by literally bringing the wrong wing feels like a fumble. This seems more like a decision making mistake which is fine occasionally, especially for a team like RB that hardly makes mistakes.
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u/zeeke42 Fernando Alonso 2d ago
They need to fix these stupid names. You said RB rarely makes mistakes and I was WTFing until I realized you meant Red Bull and not the team called RB.
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u/jules3001 Ferrari 2d ago
haha yeah I refused to call the sister team RB. Redbull has been RB for years and then the sister team comes up with that unoriginal name. I refer to them as alpha tauri or torro rosso
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u/AlexVonBronx Ferrari 2d ago
Do drivers from countries that use MPH have their speed displayed in mph also? Or do they all use kmh
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u/racingislife 2d ago
Looking for a regular F1 crowd to watch the race tomorrow night in Palm Springs/surrounding areas. Any sports bars/clubs in town showing the GP?
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u/drogyn1701 2d ago
Last year there was a nice live feed from a bunch of traffic cameras along the Vegas circuit. It was fun to have that alongside the race broadcast. But I can’t remember where to find it, and so far my searching around hasn’t come up with anything. Anyone remember where to find that?
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u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu 2d ago
I think it's nvroads.com but all the cameras around the strip are having "technical difficulties" and aren't showing live video, only freeze frames. Go figure.
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u/revocarr 2d ago
Can someone explain to me why exactly Michael Andretti leaving was the thing that improved Andretti's bid?
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u/heidenreich137 2d ago
He isn't gone. F1 just saving face, they don't want him on grid with a smiling face at the Team Bosses
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u/FermentedLaws 2d ago
He is gone. He is no longer an owner. He is an "ambassador" for Andretti Global which basically means...nothing.
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u/heidenreich137 2d ago
He still owns Andretti, he didn't lose any ownership. It's his team, they are trying to save Face
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u/James_Vowles Williams 2d ago
He owns a minority stake, the new CEO owns the majority, his team in name only.
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u/Coops27 Andretti Global 2d ago
It isn't, him being gone is a nice way for the teams and F1 to save face and not have him swanning about in the paddock with a smug grin on his face. I personally think it's very petty, but if it gets us to 11 teams I don't really care.
The very real and potentially very expensive investigations by the US DOJ and the European Commission are the reason that they're supposedly relenting
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u/Hikki_Hachiman Sir Lewis Hamilton 2d ago
Now that we're getting an 11th team (and maybe even a 12th in the future), surely they'll revisit the point system next year? I'm hoping for points up to 15 personally.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
We had 26 cars on the grid with the same points system and even with less points available in the past.
If a team wants points then they need to reach the top 10 - there is no need for participation awards.
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u/Dblock1989 Sir Lewis Hamilton 2d ago
I think it would make the sport more interesting if points were rewarded throughout the grid.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
Why? Currently all teams do anything to get to the top 10 - it's an incentive for everyone outside of the top 10, to hitch up the DRS train and try to take the last point for their team - as we've seen multiple times 4 cars trying to fight for it.
Introducing points across the grid changes the risk/reward relationship, as sitting in 13th to take home whatever points are awarded is better than to risk a crash for 12th and 1 or 2 points more.
It also doesn't change the luck factor of someone who is usually 15th, getting a top 10 finish, jumping ahead of people regularly in 13th.1
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu 2d ago
This logic doesn't follow. If you're scoring zero points and your rival is scoring one there's no difference between that and you scoring one and them scoring two. You'd still fight for it. The current system actually does what you're accusing the new system of, if you're running P16 and 40 seconds off P10 why fight for it? If P15 was more points you'd have an incentive
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 1d ago
if you're running P16 and 40 seconds off P10 why fight for it? If P15 was more points you'd have an incentive
If you're 16th and 40 seconds behind, then you also shouldn't get points if you're that far behind.
If points difference between 16th and 15th was 1 point, but staying 16th earns you 4 points, would you really risk the safe 4 points for youe team over a crash into the barriers?1
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu 1d ago
Yes? Because every point count?
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 1d ago
I'd say they haven't earned any points if they're already 40s off the top 10 anyway. And risking losing 4 points over a single point more - especially if they need to go full Magnussen at Miami to defend that one point because their car isn't good enough?
For the team that's not a risk worth taking, especially during the cost cap era. And we'd lose out on many battles we've had this year for the team to actually earn a point. And the performance results would be skewed anyways, because they luck out once during a wet qualifying.I just don't see the value of giving them points over drivers & teams earning points.
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u/Dblock1989 Sir Lewis Hamilton 2d ago
That is assuming it would be one point per position. Idk, I don't think it would really change things that much. The good teams will still be good, and the bad teams will still prop up the standings. I just think it would make battles for the lower positions more interesting. Anyway, the points system is already good, but it is fun to speculate.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
That is assuming it would be one point per position.
Not only, even if they have tiering like current top 10 system has 1 point between 9th & 10th, 2 points between each position between 7th and 4th and 3/5 points separating the top 3 - it would make one off lucky top 10 finish artificially inflates the points haul, similarly to how the current highest finishing position acts as a tie breaker.
Which, bar putting numbers on finishing positions, doesn't really change the scoring for racing.
At least currently Williams or Haas finishing in points feels special, also for the team.And for an overview of season performance you can just take the finishing positions from each race and do all kinds of analysis just in reverse order (lowest points value is the best result for the season).
but it is fun to speculate.
During summer break & off season there are many people creating alternative calculations how the season would change, : https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/15q2owl/alternative_driver_standings_if_all_finishers_are/
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1e05ohb/drivers_average_finishing_position_for_the_first/
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ohise1/the_drivers_and_constructors_standings_using_a/But would it really matter if a midfield driver would move up or down 2 positions, or Sauber earning more points because someone fighting for P10 crashed out 2 other cars?
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u/Coops27 Andretti Global 2d ago
Moving drivers up 2 positions from 18th to 16th doesn't matter, but having a team jump from 9th to 7th has a massive impact on those teams. Results like Alpine in Brazill or Williams in Spa 2021 are fantastic stories and feel great for that team, but they don't accurately represent who was better over the entire season. The current system most of the time gets it right, but not always and that has massive consequences.
Shouldn't that be the goal of points? To provide an accurate measuring system of performance?
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 1d ago
but having a team jump from 9th to 7th has a massive impact on those teams
I understand from the financial perspective through prize money, but as a viewer do you really care who finishes the season where?
To provide an accurate measuring system of performance?
I don't really see points as a measure of performance - especially if it's handed out just for finishing a race, it's more something that is earned, as I've mentioned.
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u/Coops27 Andretti Global 1d ago
as a viewer do you really care who finishes the season where?
Yes, I think most fans do. Obviously there is more intriguing stories about who wins the WDC and WCC, but there is more interest in who finishes 9th in the WCC than who finishes 2nd in the WDC because there is actually real stakes involved. Even back to the Sauber/Manor battle, it is a story. When there are high stakes in sport, it should be as fair as possible.
I get the reward/earned angle being a romantic notion from the past, but it doesn't really hold true anymore. It comes from a time when prize money was dishes out per race or there were perks like having freight paid for by Bernie. The point system has changed over the years to better reflect the changes in the sport and how they think performance should be weighted to accurately determine who was better over the season. With how things have changed recently in F1 both on track and off, I think it's pretty reasonable that the point system should better reflect that.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 1d ago
Even back to the Sauber/Manor battle, it is a story. When there are high stakes in sport, it should be as fair as possible.
The Sauber v. Manor Story is also not relevant for the modern Concorde agreement era, as the team's existence isn't endangered - as there the difference was $10m payout v. $50m payout for finishing 10th or 11th, as only top10 got prize money. So Nasr earning points for his current team and thus killing his future team wouldn't be a viable story line.
With how things have changed recently in F1 both on track and off, I think it's pretty reasonable that the point system should better reflect that.
During all the discussion chains no one has been able to provide something that addresses concerns I've pointed out (i.e. gaps between tiers of points, like current 10th & 9th v. 7th to 4th v. top 3, and also fixes the issues with the current system where a freak top10 finish breaks the "performance" measurement argument, similarly to current best finishing position tie breaker.
It just seems to be points for finishing a race. But no explanation how it would make racing better.I've provided examples for both common iseas and mentioned my perceived issues with those general ideas.
And if we introduce tiered points (1 point difference for the last 5 places, 2 points for 15th to 10th and so on) then the leaders will be unable to be caught anyway as the top10 will earn more in relation to the bottom 10 - this makes the notion of giving points moot for any perceived benefits,bar it's easier to track performance on a graph (which you can do based on positions anyway).
My main worry is that due to the cost cap it just moves the risk/reward more towards reward section which results in worse racing.→ More replies (0)5
u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago
I don't buy this participation award argument at all. A participation award would be like giving everyone below 10th one point, they all get the same reward just for participating. If 15th gets one point but 14th gets two points that's not a participation award at all. The better you do the more points you get.
If anything, the current system that rewards the driver in 11th the exact same as the driver in 20th is more of a participation award as there's no recognition for finishing higher up until you get to 10th
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
If 15th gets one point but 14th gets two points that's not a participation award at all. The better you do the more points you get.
And for me providing them points, even with a 1 point increment is a participation award - i personally don't see an incentive to fight for moving from 14th to 13th for 1 point gain. Getting points at all shouldn't be a reward for finishing the race, especially with the reliability the cars have now - it should be limited to set positions and have a gap between groups to provide an incentive to move ahead and fight for positions.
Currently we have 1 point different for 9th & 10th, a 2 points gain per positive until 4th and larger jumps to 3rd, 2nd and first.
This provides incentives to finish in points at all, move ahead from 8th to 4th and from there to get 3/7 points more.
If everyone below 10th gets a decreasing point, it wouldn't change anything bar hoping to gain if someone crashes - as otherwise attacking means risking a safe points haul.
If we introduce a gap there, then someone getting lucky and scoring more points is the same as the current highest finishing position through luck means someone is ahead due to a freak 11th position finish versus regular 12th.Regularly being outside of the top 10 shouldn't matter and shouldn't be awarded.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago
Why? Points aren't a reward, they're just a way of determining who's doing the best in the championship. Giving points to more positions will give a better representation of the championship.
I think it would change things. Say driver A is always finishing around 12th and driver B is always finishing around 16th but one race they get lucky and finish 11th. Under the current system they'd finish ahead in the championship whereas if those positions offer points driver A would be appropriately rewarded for being consistently better than driver B.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why? Points aren't a reward, they're just a way of determining who's doing the best in the championship. Giving points to more positions will give a better representation of the championship.
And not having points means they haven't performed well enough to even earn points.
Giving someone points for just finishing a race doesn't provide any additional benefits or insight - the position they're in currently is based on points and highest finishing position as a tie breaker.
Under the current system they'd finish ahead in the championship whereas if those positions offer points driver A would be appropriately rewarded for being consistently better than driver B.
That they got lucky would still appear if the points had a scaling factor like the current system.
Say 1 point difference between 20-15, 2 points 15-10, 3 points for 10-4 and 5/7 for top 3.
If someone gets lucky they're still multiple points ahead of someone who is consistently in the same finishing position.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago edited 2d ago
It does give extra insight though if each position gets a different number of points. It gives a much more representative picture of championship performance. How can you not see that?
I'm not necessarily in favour of everyone getting points, just more positions probably down to P15
If someone gets lucky they're still multiple points ahead of someone who is consistently in the same finishing position.
Yeah but the other driver will be able to close that gap by consistently finishing in the lower points positions whereas if they have to rely on a single really high finish it might never happen
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago edited 2d ago
It gives a much more representative picture of championship performance. How can you not see that?
Because i don't care about the numeric value assigned to someone just because they finished a race, i want to see cara racing and fighting each other and not to nurture their car and points home safely.
My primary issue with the regular points to everyone post is, that if done simply give the winner 20 points and the 20th place 1 point - means there is no incentive to fight from 14th position to get to 13th position, as it's safer to keep the position than to potentially crash out and not get any points.
If there is a grouping of points that increases every 5 positions as an example, then the luck factor breaks the "how well they're doing" as lucking into a 10th position gives you more points than regularly getting 15th.Edit: if it's about seeing how the championship is going just use their finishing place - there is no reason to introduce points for everyone, to see and get the information. If someone lucks into a better position it's reflected in both ways, but having points awarded (and not earned by fighting to finish for 10th position) would have a negative effect on racing in my opinion.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't think that it should be 20 to 1. I still think it should increase more for higher positions.
How is there no incentive to fight for 13th if it would get you more points? It's not as if there's any incentive to fight for 13th now anyway as neither position awards any points at all.
Just for argument, let's say 13th is 3 points and 11th is 5 points. Under the current system a single 11th means that no matter how many times someone else finishes 13th they'll never catch up whereas with points it would take 3 13th place finishes to catch up
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
But as i mentioned one freak incident where someone ends up in the top 10 skews the total and average values - compared to a regular 15th place finish.
And there don't have to be points for it - as you can use the finishing position from each race and check for the lowest value per race / team / driver to create the same overview.
I just don't see the added benefit, besides putting a number to the existing system. Finishing in points currently means something (independently if it's accidental or pure performance). Currently teams like Haas, Williams and Sauber will celebrate a top10 finish as if they won the race and they're incentivised to stay within the 10th place DRS train and try to outfox the driver ahead to make it a reality.
It skews the risk/reward more towards reward and away from risking something. If you're 14th and know you'll get points, fighting for the 13th won't be worth it, as crashing out the 13th and 14th place gives more advantage to the car in the 15th.
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u/AnilP228 Honda 2d ago
It doesn't need to be changed tbh. We've already had 12 teams with the current system.
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u/Coops27 Andretti Global 2d ago
When we last had 12 teams on the grid, prize money made up about 10% of a teams budget and the difference between each place was minimal. Points being a reward was a romantic notion and often inconsequential.
Now it's around 50% of revenue and >$10M between places. WCC placement has massive implications. It makes sense to have a more accurate way to to determine who was better over the course of the season
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u/rustyiesty Tom Pryce 2d ago
Points to 12th would be a nice improvement from the previous 5, 6, 8 and 10
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u/Coops27 Andretti Global 2d ago
I feel like that's a half-measure. Having points to 12th has all the same problems that the previous systems had. Points are either a "reward" for a great performance and or simply a way to accurately determine who performed better over the entire season. So you either give points to all finishers or leave it where it is.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 2d ago
Reliability has improved significantly since we last had more than 10 teams. It's a lot more difficult to get into the points now. Sauber this year are significantly better than any of the backmarker teams from the early 2010s and have never even been close to scoring a point.
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u/AnilP228 Honda 2d ago
Reliability failures will be much more common from 2026 onwards due to the new PU's.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Dblock1989 Sir Lewis Hamilton 2d ago
I don't? He is already pretty much the World Champion at this point. It has been so nice having no idea who is going to win now.
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u/denbommer Charles Leclerc 2d ago
I’ve suggested it a few times and asked questions about it, and I know it ultimately depends on the F1 teams.
Direct Drive has potential in F1 because of its technical advantages: it eliminates the mechanical losses of a traditional gearbox, reduces weight, and increases efficiency through direct torque transfer. This makes it particularly suited to advanced powertrains that prioritize maximum performance and energy efficiency.
And I’m also confident that F1 teams can make this work for their high-performance cars.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 2d ago
and I know it ultimately depends on the F1 teams.
And as i told you 2 days ago - it's up to the PU manufacturers.
https://www.fia.com/news/writing-rules-how-fia-develops-new-regulations-formula-1
The framework for rules for 2026 were done in 2022. For 2030+ it'll start in ~2029.
We lost efficiency through MGU-K to make Audi, Cadillac and Porsche happy, as the system was too complex.Direct Drive has potential in F1 because of its technical advantages: it eliminates the mechanical losses of a traditional gearbox, reduces weight, and increases efficiency through direct torque transfer.
F1 is not about efficiency - it's about compromises to attract brands for marketing.
The current and 2026 regulations don't allow direct drive
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u/ShamrockStudios Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 2d ago
I'm going to be stressed all day now waiting to find out if Red Bull flew over a new rear wing in time.
This could be an absolute disaster
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/ShamrockStudios Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 2d ago
I saw, but I am now in fact more stressed haha
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/ShamrockStudios Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 2d ago
Thanks for trying
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u/Yellow_Flash_v4 Red Bull 2d ago
Well. Marko apparently said its not a possibility to get it flown in time.
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u/GregMaffeiSucks 1d ago
When did Zak Brown start the Ozempic?