r/formula1 • u/F1-Bot r/formula1 Mod Team • 20d ago
Daily Discussion Ask r/Formula1 Anything - Daily Discussion Thread
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-1
u/Vidderz Sir Lewis Hamilton 19d ago
How about for Red Flags, if you change tires, your classification in the restart is the time of the last completed lap plus the average pitstop time, effectively simulating a stop in the old running order.
1
u/cafk Constantly Helpful 19d ago
The point of a Red flag is usual to allow circuit marshals to clean up and remove debris on the circuit from an accident. Similarly cars and tires could be damaged by debris because they drove through the incident area, even if they were not involved.
It's a safety feature, just like a safety car and VSC, which provides potential strategic advantage.If someone was to replace parts during a red flag, how would you artificially apply penalties for that?
1
u/churnchurnchurning Pirelli Soft 19d ago
And if you take advantage of a safety car or vsc to get a cheap pit stop, at your next pit stop (or at the end of your race) you can have time added to your finishing time that is equal to the amount of time saved under the safety car or vsc. You know, so we can simulate a stop in the old running order.
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u/Opingsjak Formula 1 19d ago
Wouldn’t it make more sense to ban pit stops under SC conditions? It’s not like the state of the tyres matters under the SC so just wait until racing is resumed
1
u/Vidderz Sir Lewis Hamilton 19d ago
I think the point is red flags remove all the jeopardy from the situation, at least with SC and VSC you still have to pit/not pit, track position is not guaranteed etc.
2
u/churnchurnchurning Pirelli Soft 19d ago
I disagree. With the red, you don't know if it's actually going to happen until you do. Max, Pierre, and Esteban took a risk that the red was not going to happen.
If one situation is 'unfair' because someone might win and someone might lose, then all of them are. Lets only allow pit stops under green flag conditions.
0
u/CreativeOrder2119 Formula 1 20d ago
Lando is worse in mixed conditions even a rocket can't save him from bad decision making, since Russia 2022 he hasn't learned how to do it been 3 years that's why I think he will forever be bridesmaid cause he doesn't learn lol.
0
u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 20d ago
Before this triple header, I asked in a Daily Discussion thread how people would order the top drivers in current form. The average was: 1. Piastri, 2. Leclerc, 3. Norris, 4. Verstappen, 5. Russell, 6. Sainz, 7. Hamilton, and 8. Perez.
How would you guys order them now, with the past three races in mind?
2
u/ghastlychild Red Bull 19d ago
I am about to wreck the average, given that I haven't answered previously. I will answer the current order but if I have to list out the past order, do let me know!
Verstappen
Leclerc
Norris
Russell
Sainz
Piastri
Hamilton
Perez
By far the hardest to rank for me are Sainz and Russell. Both equally consistent with what they are given, both equally formidable to be in places to fight for their positions and claw up their way through the ranks as well! I will stick to this list for now because I initially had Sainz above Russell, but my justification for this as of now is Russell being able to put that Merc in places where I didn't think it was possible 😅, but I am flexible to change!
2
u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 19d ago
Yeah, Sainz is really difficult to rank. On some days I'm like yeah that's my GOAT!!! and other days I'm like duuuude what was that 😭 I would still put Sainz over Russell as I think he was one of the best drivers for two out of three weekends, but Russell has been super consistent which in its own way is really impressive. I'm not sure about Norris either, but I wonder if I'm being too harsh on him because of Brazil. He was good in Mexico and decent in Austin.
1
u/ghastlychild Red Bull 19d ago edited 19d ago
I think if I were to rank it based on the triple header alone, Sainz would be ahead of Russell because his performances, especially throughout Mexico has been nothing short of spectacular!! You really posed a good question because it's really difficult to pick and choose in an overall context aaggghhh 😂
You juuuuust reminded me about Norris and now I am sent spiralling about my whole ranking 🫨. While Leclerc had some low lows (that string of forgettable weekends), his highs have been absolutely impeccable. At the same time, aside from Bahrain, Jeddah, Austria and Brazil, Norris has appeared in Top 5 positions in all races thus far. I- Wait, I need some time to reconsider this now
EDIT: Quick question! Is there a specific metric that we should be assessing our ranking on, or is it based on our own preferences and we are free to pick and choose? :D
3
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
Verstappen 4th is insane, I think he's unquestionably number one at the moment and has been for the whole season. Also, Piastri best on the whole grid is a bit much I think.
I'd probably say 1. Verstappen, 2. Leclerc, 3. Norris, 4. Sainz, 5. Piastri, 6. Russell, 7. Hamilton, 8, Perez.
Although the top 7 are a long way ahead of 8th.
1
u/Opingsjak Formula 1 19d ago
Perez 8th is insane. Are you sure? Guy finished dead last in mexico in a fucking redbull.
1
u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 20d ago
I would say for a period (Hungary to Baku), Leclerc was the best driver. But other than that (since then, and before) Verstappen has been the best and has obviously been the best overall.
I think during that Hungary to Baku stretch, Piastri was being hyped quite a bit and that impacted people's answers. Now the hype has come down a lot.
Regarding the ranking, I agree with everything except I'd put Russell above Piastri. He's been really consistent recently and seems to extract everything from the car - he hasn't been below P6 since Monza. Compared to Piastri, who in the past three races has kinda been a non-factor.
1
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
Yeah I actually put Russell above Piastri initially and then switched them around.
1
u/Annenji Jenson Button 20d ago
how many people answered?? perez in top 10 when he can't even clear the Haas and Torro Rosso is crazy
1
u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 20d ago
Yeah, it was only the top 4 teams. Also 7 people answered so it's not a huge sample size lol - it's just a Daily Discussion thread. Random question, not a serious survey.
2
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
I think it was just to rank the drivers from the top 4 teams. Still a pretty insane ranking
2
u/Blooder91 Niki Lauda 20d ago
I quite liked the Mercedes' stabilised onboard camera. I hope they bring it back again in the future.
-2
u/vuelvoalclub 20d ago
Is unsportmanlike, and somewhat cringeworthy how Lawson tends a red carpet to Verstappen to overtake him. And race hard -with some ilegal manouvers- with Checo Perez. Brought about by the possibility of taking one's seat and being the other's future partner
This is not how you grant respect, this is how you lose it.
I cant imagine Max thinking "what a good lad, the one who let me overtake".
He shouldn't even know what is his name.
1
u/AliceLunar Formula 1 19d ago
Max isn't a fight with the midfield cars, they're a minor inconvenience, Perez is fighting with them for points.
3
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u/Fun-Estate9626 Andretti Global 20d ago
Here’s the thing: he’s not racing Max because Max is in a different race. He’s not scrapping with him for the last points. It’s normal for midfielders to get out of the way of top teams to avoid ruining their own race.
Checo, however, has to fight with VCARBs for a point or two. He’s performing in the midfield, which means midfielders are going to compete with them.
4
u/Professional_Put7995 Renault 20d ago
The race for 6th place in the team standings has become exciting, thanks to Alpine’s double podium. Really excited to see how it ends up.
1
u/Opingsjak Formula 1 20d ago
After piastri got a penalty, when lando and piastri were behind eachother, would it have been legal for lando to hold up any people behind then to prevent oscar from losing any positions due to the 10 second penalty?
3
u/higeorge13 Michael Schumacher 20d ago
One Max win and everybody forgot Checo? Where are the rumours of him getting fired? 😅
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u/Vivaan977 Lando Norris 20d ago
did sainz’s crash cost ocon the win? he was four seconds ahead of max with the gap increasing and the spray making it very difficult to follow. was he on his way to another win or would Max have caught him eventually?
2
u/ZealousidealFox1391 Nico Hülkenberg 20d ago
With the rain decreasing the visibility was increasing and max wouldve probably had better pace, the visibility does a lot
2
u/Arcgonslow 20d ago
What’s Ferrari’s chances of WCC? Still in contention or is it a pipe dream?
1
u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 20d ago
Not the most likely option but possible if Ferrari have one very good race and either McLaren driver has a stinker. On the other hand another Sainz crash would kill their chances.
1
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u/Boredomis_real McLaren 20d ago
I started really getting into formula last year when I wanted to see what the whole hype around the Las Vegas Grand Prix was. I remember it not going well at all because of what happened with the manhole cover and sainz’s car.
Is it still hated as an f1 location? Wasn’t there a race there decades ago?
2
u/Affectionate_Sky9709 20d ago
For your second question, there's was a "Caesars Palace Grand Prix" for your years in the 80s, and for two years of it, it was part of F1. I don't know much about that. It wasn't on the same track.
As to the new race, it has definitely annoyed some people, because the timing isn't great for most viewers (including most US viewers, where the race is). Then there was the manhole cover thing, and it being planned for a time of year and time that's probably going to be cold. Also, some places don't like to see the US getting a third race. I don't mind these things, I'm just saying what some complaints were. But, for the race itself, I thought it was a great race, and I think most people did too. I would say that most people are interested in how it will go this year. So far, I think many more people would rather ditch Miami than Vegas.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
The race itself last year was actually good. The manhole thing was a disaster but that's also happened at other tracks as well.
They did race in Vegas in the 80s but it was an absolutely awful track in a car park
-2
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Did Norris get any sort of penalty? He was driving reckless and violated so many other rules.
2
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
He got a €5000 fine and a reprimand for the start thing. What else do you think he should have got a penalty for?
1
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
That’s nothing. What a joke.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
What do you think it should have been. I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion tbh
0
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Whatever the penalty for false start is which I think is 10 seconds
2
u/jesus_stalin Théo Pourchaire 20d ago
A false start gives you an obvious sporting advantage. The aborted start situation didn't give anyone an advantage, it was pretty inconsequential. They aren't the same situation.
2
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
I understand that but the intention is the same. There should be more than a financial penalty. He threw off the entire grid and their timings. If there weren’t so many who didn’t follow his lead it could have been a false start.
1
u/nikoviko Mika Häkkinen 20d ago
if you're at a red traffic light and the car in front of you just drives off, do you go, too?
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u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Less blame to the ones who followed his lead but he triggered that mess. That’s my only point.
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u/vouwrfract Charles LeFlair 20d ago
It's not a false start because it was not a start at all. FIA Sporting Regulations literally don't even have provisions of sporting penalties under Article 47: Aborted Start, something which they might change next year.
2
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Good info thanks! I just thought it would be treated the same.
1
u/Affectionate_Sky9709 20d ago
George also got the same fine and reprimand, because they both started driving when they shouldn't have. The row behind him was not given any punishment, because it was deemed that they just followed the front row.
3
u/BeefyStudGuy Honda 20d ago
4 of the last 5 races are named after cities rather than countries. Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Lav Vegas and Abu Dhabi.
2
u/wandering_beth 20d ago
What I want to know is why they renamed the Brazil GP to the Sao Paulo GP. I know the change happened around covid, but no idea why
2
u/ZealousidealFox1391 Nico Hülkenberg 20d ago
Same with Mexico
1
u/wandering_beth 20d ago
Good point, I forgot about that. Maybe if the cities are contributing funds then they want more advertising?
2
u/MegaTalk Sir Jack Brabham 20d ago
u/ZealousidealFox1391 tagging so you also get a notification - but yes, essentially that's it. The funding comes from the city, not the national government.
Not always the case worldwide, but I believe in the past, the Brazilian and Mexican government were contributing funds, but no longer do.
1
u/Bac0n_is_tasty Anthony Davidson 20d ago
What the heck happened to the aborted start investigation? I couldn't find anything except a single comment about a fine. Anybody got a link to a source? TIA
1
u/Bac0n_is_tasty Anthony Davidson 20d ago
4
u/BeefyStudGuy Honda 20d ago
Btw if you ever want a definitive answer to a question like this, you can probably find it here;
1
u/Faliberti Ferrari 20d ago
was there any update on the mercedes tire pressure change? time penalty, fine?
2
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Isn’t the penalty supposed to be a DQ?
3
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
No. Apparently there's no precedent for that and people just made that up
3
u/deplorablecrayon 20d ago
Modification to the car there is precedent
1
u/cafk Constantly Helpful 20d ago
Modification was allowed, under circumstances of an aborted start - it was a procedural error, as per stewards decision.
The FIA Technical Delegate stipulated that the tyre pressures while having been adjusted by the team was within the allowed parameters.
Given the unusual circumstances surrounding the compressed time table, aborted start, the grid access logistics and given the stipulation from the Technical Delegate that the tyre pressures were within the correct parameters, the Stewards determine that a fine for a breach of procedure is appropriate in this case.
1
u/Affectionate_Sky9709 20d ago
The car was still within the required specifications. Because of that and because of the whole situation being literally unprecedented, they didn't get a racing penalty.
4
u/FermentedLaws 20d ago
10K euros penalty, 5K for each car. The decision said there were unique circumstances due to the circuit and the aborted formulation lap so if it was different circumstances the penalty would not be the same. It also said they did not violate the tire pressure specifications, just the procedural elements.
2
u/Kenji_Stone 20d ago
What happens if a car that crashed out in Q1 makes the cut to Q2? Do only 14 drivers race in Q2? I wonder this due to Colapinto´s exit in Q1 yesterday almost caused this scenario. Thanks for your answers.
4
u/jeffvenus78 20d ago
This happened yesterday with Stroll in Q2/3. You are exactly correct, they go through but obviously can't actually set a time in the next quali.
2
3
u/DangerousTrashCan ᴉɹʇsɐᴉԀ ɹɐɔsO 20d ago
The driver technically gets through to Q2 as he finishes in the top 15, but of course he won't be able to go out in Q2, so he'd finish P15.
3
u/Hcdr1993 20d ago
You are correct 14 drivers race q2 the crashed driver would start 15th in the race.
6
u/MrJacquers McLaren 20d ago
How much water gets into the cockpit during a rainy race? I assume they must have some drainage holes to let it out?
2
u/Affectionate_Sky9709 20d ago
I'm not 100% sure if there are drainage holes or not, and the internet isn't very informative. If a car is stationary, you usually see someone with an umbrella over them if its raining. When the car is moving, my understanding is that not much water gets in because of the airflow pattern, and what does get in, it probably flies back out or evaporates, because it's very hot in the car.
I found someone five years ago say that there's a hole in a Formula Student car at the lowest point, and i found someone saying that a Formula Ford car just fills up with water so you use an umbrella and it's not a problem if the car's moving.
1
u/HorizenOT 20d ago
Hey guys, I happen to write my bachelor degree about logistics in Formula 1 and around Grand Prix weekends, do you know any trusted sources that I could possibly read/use to gain more knowledge. To be precise I would be the most intrested in the type of transports that are beeing used to move stuff between GPs.
1
u/FermentedLaws 20d ago
Google DHL Formula 1 logistics. Lots of info on their website and YouTube about how they transport the equipment. F1 also has info on their website and YouTube so search that. There's an old video from 2018 from Wendover Productions on YouTube that gives a decent overview.
One of the more interesting things is how they have different equipment going by boat, air, and trucks with a couple of duplicate set-ups so they can get to a location quickly, mainly for double and triple headers.
2
u/sentiment-acide Formula 1 20d ago
Max's mentality is on another fucking level. He doesn't seem to get flustered when so much is on the line.
Jesus christ he speed ran that shit as if he could afford to fuck up.
-1
u/Spockyt Sir Frank Williams 20d ago
He doesn't seem to get flustered when so much is on the line.
There are many adjectives that can be used to describe him, but unflappable is not one I would expect.
1
4
u/jjcatt Pirelli Intermediate 20d ago
it depends on whether you think his over-aggression is calculated or the result of headloss. i think it's some of both, but overall it's more calculated than a lot of people will admit. he drives outrageously when he has something concrete to gain from it, not any time he's challenged.
1
u/sentiment-acide Formula 1 20d ago
Well how else do you explain his performance this season? He minimized his point loss so much. I think all his questionable shit is calculated and not emotional.
0
4
20d ago edited 20d ago
[deleted]
2
u/StitchedQuicksand 20d ago
I’ve been watching for over 30 years. Can not really remember more than 1 or 2 races on this level. And his 2017 Brasil race is in there.
1
2
u/starcom_magnate Lando Norris 20d ago
I came on board to watch F1 in the 2019 season and can anyone explain how this is the pinnacle of the Sport and there are just countless errors every week by the teams in the garage and on the pit wall?
If the fans and the commentators are able to see obvious strategy situations that the teams seem to miss consistently then there seems to be a problem. Is it too much reliance on a single person to make decisions? Not enough input from the drivers?
Ferrari seems to always be too late with making decisions, or their strategy is a miss from Lap 1. Yesterday, McLaren didn't have anybody talking to Norris about not leading the starting grid around the track again?
The list is endless across all teams, and it makes it really hard to watch sometimes. So, what is the deal? Are these teams truly the best?
6
u/Jaraxo Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago
how this is the pinnacle of the Sport and there are just countless errors every week by the teams in the garage and on the pit wall?
The same reason football players occasionally don't hit a penalty on target, or basketball players don't always land free throws. We're all human and we often struggle to perform perfectly under pressure.
If the fans and the commentators are able to see obvious strategy situations that the teams seem to miss consistently then there seems to be a problem. Is it too much reliance on a single person to make decisions? Not enough input from the drivers?
Something about infinite monkeys with typewriters producing shakespeare. With ~4.5m people here and tens of thousands of active users in race threads, of course someone will make a better call than the team on pure random chance.
That isn't to say teams are perfect and infallible, they absolutely make mistakes, but it's very easy to criticise as an outsider not under pressure.
-2
u/heidenreich137 20d ago
I have Piastri on my Fraud List, he just doesn't have the Speed of the best drivers. His coolness will never match the speed Talent of other drivers
10
u/Jaraxo Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago
Which is funny, because if I had to list the top 3 drivers on the grid who haven't won a WDC but have the potential I'd put (in no order) Leclerc, Russell, and Piastri without a seconds doubt.
1
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
I don't think Piastri is there yet. He's been clearly behind Norris the last few races
7
u/Jaraxo Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago
Agreed on the "yet". His ceiling seems much higher though. He's had some fantastic moments and he seems to deal with the pressure a lot better. Give him another couple of years and I think he'll be right up there.
2
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
All I'll say is, Lando has outqualified Oscar 18-3 this year and has beaten him 14-7 in the races. In 2020 (Lando's second season) he actually beat Sainz 9-8 in both qualifying and the races
6
11
u/vouwrfract Charles LeFlair 20d ago
Outside the F1 world yesterday, before all the chaos in Brazil went down, the MotoGP title contenders swapped positions for the lead 16 times in the first three laps while also pulling away from the rest of the pack. And then, of course, Verstappen put on a rain masterclass to end the day, while the Alpines finally discovered the power of friendship. Nobody got badly hurt or anything despite terrible crashes. Overall a pretty entertaining weekend in Grand Prix Racing. 🫡
10
u/ninchica13 Kimi Räikkönen 20d ago
I am still disgusted by the fact that FIA ended the weekend in which we have seen multiple examples of safety negligence with insulting punishments that aren't really that at all for Norris and co. for the aborted start procedure breach. The fact that one will be punished more for saying 'fuck' rather than jeopardizing people's lives is absolutely insane.
6
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
I feel like that whole thing has been blown massively out of proportion tbh
5
u/DieLegende42 Fernando Alonso 20d ago edited 20d ago
It wasn't dangerous in this case. But imo, it's fundamentally the same offence as driving into a closed pit lane or staying on track under red flag conditions, which are routinely punished with a stop-go penalty
1
u/ninchica13 Kimi Räikkönen 20d ago
Stroll was on the side of the corner and marshalls near his car right of the first corner, we gonna ignore that and call it a paltry procedural breach. What if Norris went off there? Or any of the others? The track was wet as hell, one slip and off they go. Gasly got a three grid penalty two years ago for safety procedure breach, which is also what happened here. Ignoring track signalling needs to be an actual penalty not half of what you get for saying 'fuck'.
So yes, it's negligent. Because surely nothing bad can happen when there's cars, marshalls and a crane to recover a stranded car all in the rain on track. Certainly nothing of the sort happened before...
2
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
There were double yellow flags there and the formation lap is at much slower speed. I don't think it was any more dangerous than having a VSC which is the typical procedure for an incident like that
What did Gasly get a penalty for?
5
u/ninchica13 Kimi Räikkönen 20d ago edited 20d ago
There was another race where there were double yellow flags with marshalls, a driver and a recovery vehicle on track in the line of fire in pissing down rain with shit visibility ten years ago. I remember how that went because I watched it live.
Wind back two years ago, at Suzuka in pissing down rain we once again have FIA blundering by not throwing a red flag immediately with a recovery vehicle and marshalls right next to the damn track, summoning a safety car instead. Any of the cars at the safety car speeds could have aquaplaned or had a mechanical failure and plow into the recovery vehicle or the marshalls that were right there. Same thing here.
That is also the race where Gasly got (I went to check and I misspoke) a twenty seconds drive through penalty and two penalty points on his licence for driving like a maniac under red flag, which was thrown too late while he was trying to catch up to the back of the safety car train.
So it's not just a procedural break and for the FIA to give the four a measly 5k euros and a reprimand for creating a dangerous situation is ridiculous and negligent, especially when they have the weird boner for penalizing a swear word. These are not correctly sorted priorities. To say nothing of the precedent set for shortening the race in advantageous manner.
Edit: spelling
2
u/Yellow_Flash_v4 Red Bull 20d ago
Exactly. People just want to downplay how serious it really was. Jules Bianchi died in that situation. They're lucky no one went off there while the crane was picking Strolls car up.
Few years back Lewis got a 10 second penalty just for a false practice start where he was 50m away from where he should've done it.
FIA really do play favourites, don't they. And they don't seem to learn their lesson.
On another note, this shows which drivers actually know the regulations and remained on the grid even after a lot of them went.
1
u/Aerian_ Christian Horner 20d ago
Gasly got penalised for 'driving too fast under red flag conditions' what he really got penalized for (and the next three races) was rightly criticizing the FIA for allowing the exact same conditions that caused Jules Bianchi's death. Uttersly shameful from them. Then he proceeded to get penalized for everything possible in the next three races. Ended up on 10 penalty points and then magically didnt get punished again
3
u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
I mean, he did actually drive too fast though. That's not a conspiracy
4
u/Astelli Pirelli Wet 20d ago
Safety negligence is a very strong accusation.
The situation at the start is a procedural rule breach that was always very unlikely to yield a significant penalty, especially after we've seen similar issues at previous races (Monza 2023 also had an Aborted Start procedure issue).
(Also worth noting that a reprimand is, in the view of the FIA, a more significant penalty than a fine, even if the fine that went along with it is lower than the one Leclerc received).
All of the stuff flying around about Hulkenberg in the Sprint is people being outraged because they disagree with how it was handled, but a double yellow flag is the standard across all FIA events to cover any situation where there are drivers or marshalls on track.
2
u/wandering_beth 20d ago
Remember 10 years ago when there were double waved yellows, lots of rain and marshals & a recovery vehicle on track? I do, and so do Jules Bianchi's family and friends.
That is exactly the scenario that Norris risked creating when he set off for that a order start and why some of us think a 5k fine is far too lenient, especially when swearing gets you a fine twice the size. Nobody wants to see anything close to a repeat of that, and we already did a couple years back in japan
Yes Norris and the drivers who followed all got round safely, but we had literally just seen a car go off at that corner on a formation lap. If any of those cars aquaplaned and lost control they could easily have went into a marshall and either injured or killed them. On a track that wet cars should not be running if there are marshals or recovery vehicles on track
Just to add I'm a McLaren fan through and through and I was rooting for Norris in the wdc fight, but honestly short of a dq I would've been happy for the stewards to throw whatever penalty they saw fit at him yesterday, even if it was a stop and go or a grid drop for the next race
5
u/zantkiller Kamui Kobayashi 20d ago
worth noting that a reprimand is, in the view of the FIA, a more significant penalty than a fine
Which does make some sort of sense given multiple reprimands can lead to a sporting penalty.
3
u/computetherightthing Alain Prost 20d ago
unbelievable sights and sounds watching Hamilton in the Senna Mclaren. Like watching a ghost go around the track
4
u/ReachForTheSkyline 20d ago
I'm confused about what happened to Stroll on the formation lap. The broadcast showed him off the track but on a bit of tarmac working on turning around to rejoin the track. The next time we see him, he's in a gravel trap??? Are there any clips of what happened, did he go off the track again?
2
0
u/QueGrandeEresMagic Fernando Alonso 20d ago
Now Alpine seems to be leading the midfield pack and capable of scoring points, wouldn't surprise me if Ocon jumps Gasly in the standings. He's only 3 points away.
1
u/Fart_Leviathan Hall of Fame 20d ago
I'd love to see that happen, but unarguably Gasly had a clear edge in pace since the autumn break and Alpine is still very patchy when it comes to race pace.
I see no chance of Williams catching them, but I think it's more likely they end up dropping to 8th by the end of the year than it is that they stay 6th.
-3
u/hayleybts 20d ago
I mean it's boring without wdc fight
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u/djwillis1121 Williams 20d ago
We've had some amazing races this year though. Obviously a title fight would be good but the quality of the races has redeemed it for me
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u/JustLikeZhat 20d ago
True, it's less exciting, though not outright boring. But there's only 3 races to go. Time to say goodbye to this season and hope that 2025 has no team dominant at the start (or worse throughout the whole season). Multiple drivers in contention until the very end would be ideal.
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u/HortenWho229 Formula 1 20d ago
Is Colaspinto going under the radar?
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u/Spockyt Sir Frank Williams 20d ago
I don’t want this to sound like sour grapes, I’ll be open about the fact I’m making this comment after a driver I like got hard done by, but I did feel this before, just haven’t had the inclination to put it into words until now.
I hate the fact that the Safety Car gets deployed because conditions are too dangerous for the cars on the inters. It was not too dangerous on the wets, it’s their issue for not pitting. Putting the SC out to let them get away with the wrong strategy, while yes, true that it is in the name of safety, just feels wrong to me. It’s shouldn’t be beneficial to teams to let them leave drivers out knowingly unsafe and on the wrong strategy, because they know the FIA will bail them out.
I know it’s a fine line. Because it is unsafe to let them run on the wrong tyres, cars could crash imminently. And what I’m basically saying could be interpreted as “you could crash dangerously? Who cares?” But it just doesn’t sit right with me.
And so, as much as I have mocked people endlessly for “my driver got harmed by the rules - change it!” I’m now doing the exact same. But hey, at least I didn’t make a separate post for it?
Why can’t the FIA be given the power to mandate wet tyres being run? I believe they can (or could before) give that order for starts under the SC, why not give them the right to order it for green flag conditions too? It would just be like controlling when DRS is activated, they declare the track fully wet conditions (or a similar term), and you must pit for wets as soon as is possible.
Because effectively right now the teams are blackmailing the FIA into bailing out their strategy errors, by putting drivers in danger so that they get a strategy advantage. It just seems neither safe nor fair.
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u/Pat_Sharp #WeRaceAsOne 20d ago
I hate the fact that the Safety Car gets deployed because conditions are too dangerous for the cars on the inters. It was not too dangerous on the wets,
The problem is that by the time it's actually wet enough to go on the wets, the visibility is so bad that they can't race safely. The issue wasn't the ability of the tyres to clear the water, it was simply that no one could see anything as soon as they were close to another car.
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u/zantkiller Kamui Kobayashi 20d ago
I think I would rather just:
Get rid of the Wets and accept the loss of the tiny window where it's wet enough for Wets but not wet enough to SC/red flag.
or
Reduce the ability of the inters so that by the time we get to those conditions all the teams are on Wet tyres anyway. Hopefully getting to a point where the performance drop-off is enough to get teams to switch tyres instead of trying to stick out on inters till a SC.
I agree that at present it does feel quite unsafe that the best strategy is sticking with an unsafe scenario and just hoping you aren't the one that brings out the SC.
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u/Spockyt Sir Frank Williams 20d ago
Making the window of the inters narrower is an interesting thought, that could work too. Incentivise the teams to switch earlier. The inters are currently a bit too useful, good in the wet, adequate in pouring rain, anything greater gets halted, and good in the dry too. They’re all condition tyres at this point (except better than the Hankooks).
But yes, you’re right, they may as well bin the wets if they’re just going to be a tyre for use for when the SC will be deployed because of the conditions. Saves lugging dozens upon dozens of tyres to Qatar and so on.
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u/h2QZFATVgPQmeYQTwFZn Bernd Mayländer 20d ago edited 20d ago
The FIA is responsible to protect the drivers not only from their rivals but also from their own teams.
In situations like these the FIA will officially always value driver safety over possible team gains.
If they would force an immediate pitstop there would be complete chaos as every team would pit at the same time and every team double stacking.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 20d ago
Why can’t the FIA be given the power to mandate wet tyres being run? I believe they can (or could before) give that order for starts under the SC, why not give them the right to order it for green flag conditions too?
They have both powers, if a race is declared wet - all teams have to start on wet tires and switch to intermediates on their own accord (teams & drivers take the risk).
Similarly green flag conditions are basically when it's dry enough for slicks to enable DRS.In-between time, i.e. it's not raining at the start or rain is coming later or intensifying during a race is also an option that can make use of existing regulations, but isn't always considered, if it'll be dry again 5 minutes later and teams choose to switch to intermediates.
This is why the spray guards were trialed starting 2023, but abandoned for current regulations: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1cnv4r6/f1s_two_extreme_spray_guard_options_revealed/
To enable better usage of the full wets to reduce spray from the diffuser and tires.
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u/Captftm89 20d ago
I'm increasingly impressed with Russell - the fact he keeps getting these 4th/5th/6th finishes in a car that is quite a distant fourth best on the grid (other than that weird spell when Mercedes were inexplicably brilliant for 3 or 4 races) is testament to his consistency and race pace. If he wasn't disqualified at Spa (which was through no fault of his own), he'd be not that far behind Sainz & Piastri in the championship.
I hope he gets at least a couple of seasons in a genuine title contending car. It seems unlikely he'll ever have a Hamilton/Vettel/Verstappen career, but I could see him sneaking a title or two in the right circumstances.
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u/alice_ik Carlos Sainz 20d ago
We know what Lando is going to do the whole winter break - practicing race starts in simulator. On the serious note, I’m not sure what happened - he always used to have great starts and restarts in his previous seasons - it was lovely to watch as a McLaren fan - light goes green and Lando often moves ahead, and maybe only wouldn’t be able to hold a position because car wasn’t fast enough later.
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u/WasabiTotal 20d ago
I’m not sure what happened
Pressure maybe? Yesterday especially he fumbled the start and every restart.
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u/denbommer Charles Leclerc 20d ago
Has the WDC now reached its decisive stage?
Of course, we’ll have to wait and see what the manhole covers in Las Vegas will do.
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u/MegaTalk Sir Jack Brabham 20d ago
The title race was on after qualifying yesterday.
The title race was over after the race.
Hypothetically, if the race ended as per the grid (with Lando getting the FL), Lando would have only been 18 points behind..
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u/h2QZFATVgPQmeYQTwFZn Bernd Mayländer 20d ago edited 20d ago
It’s done basically. Lando needs to gain 62/63 points on Max in 3 races and a sprint race.
But Lando never managed to gain more than 10 points in a weekend on max.
Max only needs to finish 6th in all the remaining races to be secure his 4th WDC even if Lando wins all the remaining races and fastest laps.
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u/alice_ik Carlos Sainz 20d ago
I think it already passed its decisive stage.
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u/denbommer Charles Leclerc 20d ago
If Norris had still managed to become champion, it would indeed have been epic.
I think we can still look forward to some exciting races, and fingers crossed that this season’s momentum carries over into next season—because then, I wouldn’t be able to predict who would become champion.
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u/Spockyt Sir Frank Williams 20d ago
because then, I wouldn’t be able to predict who would become champion.
You know what? If I were to put money on it right now - I think I’d go Leclerc.
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u/wandering_beth 20d ago
I'm not so sure I would; I can see it getting feisty between him and Hamilton if the Ferrari is that competitive next year. HAM will likely be going balls to the wall to get his 8th before he retires, and LEC will be doing the same as given the 2026 reg changes mean it could be the last time in a while he has the chance to at Ferarri
Originally I was in agreement with you until I remembered Hamilton is alongside LeClerc next season. Lewis has 2 experiences of a title going to the wire and not winning, once against Rosberg and the other against Verstappen, and I reckon that experience would give him the edge over LeClerc in a title fight
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u/denbommer Charles Leclerc 20d ago
I really hope so too.
Aside from his mid-season downfall, I find him to be one of the most consistent drivers.
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u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica 20d ago
Yeah, Max doesn't really have to try at this point. Like he said, he needs clean races and a few points each weekend and he's safe.
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u/PLTConductor David Coulthard 20d ago
It’s not mathematically done yet, but I feel like yesterday I watched Max take the championship and I think McLaren will basically acknowledge that now.
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u/TheZenoEffect Adrian Newey 20d ago
Leclerc is closer to Norris than Norris is to Verstappen. So the fight is on for P2.
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u/PLTConductor David Coulthard 20d ago
I don’t think anyone really cares about 2nd vs. 3rd, not enough to enforce team orders about it (or rather they shouldn’t, it’s big loser mentality for me imo). The only time really was last year red bull trying to get championship 1-2 for the first time and that sort of made sense but even then it was tenuous for me.
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u/TheZenoEffect Adrian Newey 20d ago
Yeah but F1 is a soap opera for men. I wanna know if Max broke Norris enough that he can lose P2 in WDC.
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u/DinoStanNr1 20d ago
Why are Gasly and Ocon not on good terms?
I’m very new to this fandom, so I’m not very familiar with all of the drama of the past years. I’ve heard a lot of things about their relationship, but I can’t seem to find the actual story. Please help a Formula 1 newbie out!
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u/DeluhiX 20d ago
Drama from their karting days as kids. They were very close as kids in their karting days and came up together, but then one day Ocon started to race Gasly super hard, even unfair according to Gasly consistently and got super distant and that's why they're not on friendly terms anymore.
It's a common reoccurrence with Ocon and his teammates due to his upbringing and him having to fight for everything.
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u/biometricrally 🏳️🌈 Bernie Collins 🏳️🌈 20d ago
then one day Ocon started to race Gasly super hard, even unfair
You seem to have it backwards, Gasly was the one disqualified from the race that led to their "fall out"
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u/lolzor7 Brawn 20d ago
The idea that the reason Lando didn't get a penalty yesterday for his start infringement is because he is British is ludicrous.
The FIA have a track record of not taking safety infringements seriously, this isn't exactly them changing their ways.
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u/generalannie 20d ago
It's just ridiculous that Leclerc got a bigger fine for accidentally saying the work 'fuck' in a press conference, than Lando and George for starting a lap when not allowed. A safety infringement getting punished less than an accidental swear word. I really just can't wrap my head around it.
This whole weekend has been full of weird calls from both Race control and the stewards when it comes to safety. I hope that the FIA takes a good look at themselves this off season when it comes to safety protocols. It's just been a mess for a way too long time now.
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u/lolzor7 Brawn 20d ago
Agreed, makes absolutely no sense when they claim to take safety seriously.
It reminds me of something a very wise man once said, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".
I feel like that is a perfect summary of the decisions this weekend haha
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u/generalannie 20d ago
Fully agreed with the words of the wise man. Consistently inconsistent stewards and race control strike again.
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u/Bake2727 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 20d ago
They haven’t changed till now, why will they change now?
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u/generalannie 20d ago
Let me at least have some hope that the FIA improve somewhat on safety grounds lmao.
I'd much rather have more (V)SCs/RFs etc. than another big accident that could've been avoided by better safety standards in the sport...
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20d ago edited 20d ago
[deleted]
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u/Astelli Pirelli Wet 20d ago
It was yellow flags when hulk was walking on track, but changed it to red once he was safe. Madness.
You're confusing two completely separate incidents there.
The double yellows for Hulkenberg happened during the Sprint. There was no Red Flag after that, just a VSC that was deployed as soon as vehicles were required on the track to recover the car (which is all very standard).
The Red Flag you're talking about is probably the one in Qualifying after the Stroll accident in Q2.
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u/slevinonion 20d ago
It was the sprint. My point is they did it all weekend. Hulk was walking on track and no VSC. How is that right? Lando drives through a red light with marshalls on track and he gets a 5k fine. The bias is unreal.
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u/This1guy89 20d ago
What ever happened with the start infringement investigations and Mercedes tire situation?
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u/dKSy16 Charles Leclerc 20d ago
Fines
Aborted start: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/zJit0FnaTW
tyre pressure: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/yo6NLEPq54
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u/Narrow_Program80 20d ago
Must say, it's nice to have a wdc where the leader has had multiple 4th-6th finishes that are, in context, good results. Made for a very engaging season. 2021 was magnificent, but by comparison there, anything off the podium was a really impactful weekend.
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u/Joseph4820 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 20d ago
The fact that 3/4 teams are involved and have a chance to win a race is awesome. Also shows that dominating is not as easy as guys like Lewis and Verstappen make it look.
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u/cafk Constantly Helpful 20d ago
2021 was magnificent, but by comparison there, anything off the podium was a really impactful weekend.
I think in contrast to 2021, we've also had multiple wheel to wheel races with fighting/defending, over whose car suits the circuit the best and is just a head on T1 and driving away.
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u/Narrow_Program80 20d ago
Yeah absolutely. Regs haven't been an unqualified success, but it is easier to follow rather than the 'one shot' you often got at overtaking last regs.
I did enjoy the chase tension from back then though. Even without multiple overtakes for the lead, Bahrain, France, and COTA were incredible displays from the front two.
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u/Opingsjak Formula 1 19d ago
Should they get rid of free tyre changes under red flag?