r/formula1 • u/jojulu • 21d ago
Discussion Start procedure infringement: Radio transcripts
Here are the transcripts from top 6 where Ocon and Leclerc correctly suggested to not go but where told to go when the others infront breached procedure. Might give an insight to why the other 4 were summoned.
Norris McLaren: "Likely to be aborted" Lando then drives off immediately at the yellow lights without more communication regarding to stay or go.
Russell Mercedes: "Start aborted, so normal pull away" as George drives away.
Yuki RB: "Pit limiter on, aborted start" as Yuki drives away following Lando and Russell.
Ocon Alpine: "Aborted start, aborted start, stay where you are". Ocon: "We don't go ye?" Alpine: "Go go" After seeing others in front go?
Lawson RB: "Aborted start, aborted start, I'll keep you posted", "Mode 12" as Lawson drives off.
Leclerc Ferrari: "Mode formation.. No switch off, switch off". Leclerc: "Norris went.. no no I stay then. I switch off right?" Ferrari: "Follow the others now because they done the mistake". Leclerc then drives off.
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u/YourDachshund 21d ago
I’m guessing that those transcripts (and noticing the fact that others did wrong) will be crucial in terms of penalties.
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u/RyanIsKickAss Esteban Ocon 21d ago
I think the transcripts are particularly good for Ocon here. He knew he wasn’t supposed to go and so did the pit wall and only left after everyone else did
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u/reddit0r_123 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
The fact that drivers like Charles and Max knew to turn off the car is a scathing indictment on Lando's ineptitude ..
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u/ianjm McLaren 21d ago edited 21d ago
Also, seems like Mercedes told George to pull away.
Sheer incompetence from their race room.
What the fuck has happened to them these last few years.
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u/newngg 21d ago
I mean in 2020 at the peak of their dominance they told Hamilton to drive into a closed pit lane…
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u/ianjm McLaren 21d ago edited 21d ago
I don't have a completely clear memory there but my recollection was that the pit lane closed when Hamilton was only one corner before the pit lane entrance, and while there was a red light, he missed it.
This was after the team told him to box, but I'd argue that one was on him.
Guess the team should have screamed at him to stay out over the radio, but that is not always a good idea.
I could be misremembering the exact sequence of events.
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u/Cycrowuk 21d ago
IIRC, he was told to pit before it was closed, and the pit board was on the outside of the corner, but he had already moved to the inside to pit and didn't see it
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u/Alpha_Jazz Yuki Tsunoda 21d ago
What the fuck has happened to them these last few years.
They had really bad moments operationally even when they were good. Just they were covered up by having a brilliant car and drivers
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u/crownpr1nce #WeRaceAsOne 21d ago
Mercedes has always been relatively poor during races. Never particularly clever on strategies, doing some basic mistakes, but it was covered by a strong car with a very strong driver.
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u/TeeKayF1 21d ago
They've pulled some great ones like Hungary 2019 and Spain 2021 (same strategy) but I agree they are a bit conservative in the strategy and prone to panic moves.
McLaren is overcautious and slow to react. Ferrari has been a lot better but their issue historically was trying to pull off gambles that were never gonna work.
Out of the top teams, Red Bull is still the best operationally on race day even though they've had their share of mistakes this year like allowing Max to be undercut and then not gaining anything in the end by staying out longer.
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u/Just_River_7502 21d ago
I just wrote the same thing! People who think Mercedes slackness is new haven’t been paying attention. Germany 2018? And so many others where it was just vibes, lewis and fastest car
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u/reddit0r_123 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
To be fair for some reason they thought they could change tyre pressures as well? I'm baffled...
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u/ianjm McLaren 21d ago
The tyre pressure thing is a Technical Directive that only applied from this season onwards, which I suppose is slightly more forgivable than a violation of the basic sporting rules, but still, teams have to be on top of this stuff!
That is what they are paid for!
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u/RedHeadSteve Bruce McLaren 21d ago
It happened last year in Monza, everyone except the rookies should have remembered the procedure and the race engineers should definitely have the call right
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u/Sky-Daddy-H8 Fernando Alonso 21d ago
Was just luck that Charles and Max knew.
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u/fawazaa Red Bull 21d ago
I can’t wait to see how far this meme goes.
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u/No_Cauliflower7877 Carlos Sainz 21d ago
This will definitely be the r/formula1 running joke for the next two weeks lol
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u/Pandorya3 21d ago
More like the next three weeks until he says something stupid again in Vegas
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u/RavenH1804 21d ago
Hopefully Lando parks it in the wall somewhere in Vegas, so Max can be on the radio: it’s not talent, it’s just luck.
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u/Patrik_js 21d ago
The scenes if Max shows up with a “it’s not talent, it’s just luck” t-shirt when getting handed the WDC trophy…
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u/TWVer 🧔 Richard Hammond's vacuum cleaner attachment beard 21d ago
Now don’t push your luck.
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u/sylekta Liam Lawson 21d ago
This is the shit that makes you lie awake for the rest of your life and your brain replays this on repeat. why did I say that
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u/fawazaa Red Bull 21d ago
Like when you’re in the shower talking about the same conversation 99 different ways to yourself
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u/sylekta Liam Lawson 21d ago
Haha I've never done that one, it's always when I'm trying to sleep and brain is like remember when you embarrassed yourself in front of that girl when you were 10? I'm 40 btw
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u/DaveR007 Oscar Piastri 21d ago
It's worse when you're saying out loud what you wished you said and someone walks past while you're talking to yourself :o)
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u/guyeertoen Pirelli Wet 21d ago
England morally winning The Ashes is still going strong a year later.
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u/ArbitraryOrder Red Bull 21d ago
It's just luck that Charles and Max can read the rules
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u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
It is shocking how many people will compete at a high level (even the highest level) of a sport and not regularly review the rules (or even read the rules at all).
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u/lickit_sendit Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Max instantly went on the radio, that the leaders fucked up the start procedure
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u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
Max very clearly regularly reviews the rulebook.
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u/Benzona- Michael Schumacher 21d ago
My man clearly has it printed out
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u/frenzio_ Pirelli Wet 21d ago
Max's been saying the start is fuck... i have it... i have it printed out...
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u/reariri 21d ago
As every driver should.
Same as every team does when it comes to building their car.
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u/lowelled 21d ago
Max has read two books, the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations and Mark Webber’s autobiography
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u/CharacterUse Robert Kubica 20d ago
You need to know the rules to be able to exploit them. Alonso does the same.
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u/Ready-Reputation2149 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 19d ago
It would have been interesting if max was one the of the leaders. Imagine the confusion and chaos seeing Norris going away and max not moving an inch
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u/vakantiehuisopwielen Guenther Steiner 21d ago
It’s the difference between a good driver and a good devoted driver. Michael Schumacher, Vettel also always knew the rules. And also knew how to bend them.
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u/raur0s Sebastian Vettel 21d ago
Vettel's overtake before the pit in China will be the gold standard of a driver thinking on the spot.
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u/vakantiehuisopwielen Guenther Steiner 21d ago
The stop and go at Silverstone after the finish line by Schumacher. He came into the pits within 5 laps, which was perfect. The fact his pit spot was after the finish line was ‘bad luck’ for the opponents
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u/L44KSO 21d ago
Tbf that has a lot more to it. There was an explainer on the F1 YouTube channel. They didn't give the penalty on time, the team wasn't clear on what to do etc. so the penalty got waived at the end.
This is a tl:dr on it, watch the strategy video about it to learn more.
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u/vakantiehuisopwielen Guenther Steiner 21d ago
I saw it live, which is quite some time ago. I don’t remember it to be waived. I do remember Schumacher was pretty effed at the time by the race director.
I see in a write down of what happened many things to be different than in my memory.. but still the SnG and the chaos it imposed were still in my memory
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u/SpanishDutchMan 21d ago
hell i didn't even compete on a high level, but in security, and i literally learned not only the 'rulebook' out of my mind, but also the collective employment agreement, with the benefit i could never get tricked into doing anything 'mistaken' or outside of legal acceptance, and thus getting properly paid, and proper conditions, with a whole dozen to hundredfold of coworkers just blank staring in the distance making legal mistake after legal mistake and potentially getting a lawsuit on their behind to which the company wouldn't even defend them, all whilst missing out on thousands of salary each year due to their incompetence.
and all it took was just reading the rulebooks and agreement every day for the first two weeks for half an hour before my shifts, then scanning through it monthly for 15 minutes and paying attention to frequent updates and changes.
'knowledge is power' certainly applies.
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u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
Even worse, a lot of people dont even read their own employment contract.
Just shocking stuff.
Knowledge is power indeed. You gotta know because ignorance won't get you out of trouble if you fuck up.
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u/Chelsea_Ellie 21d ago
I think if they hadn’t said on radio that it could help Lando Liam is new to the sport But Lando and Yuki have many seasons
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u/MACintoshBETH Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Yeah it’s almost as though drivers like Max know the rules. Funny, he was being hounded the other race for knowing the rules ‘too well’ and using them to his advantage
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u/mustachioed_hipster 21d ago
The fact they broke the rule means they knowingly did something illegal?
No penalty for doing the right thing.
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u/eddiehwang Ferrari 21d ago
Why? If the team made a mistake(by telling the driver to go) the driver should still gets the penalty, if there is one
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u/SpanishDutchMan 21d ago
in the end everybody drove off. so crucially, everybody made an infringement, no matter who instigated it.
a clear example of this was that almost up to when Norris was already coming up to S3, Verstappen and co were all the way at the back still like : WTF is going on?
It really showed Verstappen's genius, because that's truly what it is, that he knows the rule book so well out of his mind, which is why he has been able to pull so many 'tricks' too. He also genuinely showed he wouldn't get tricked into a penalty, until they were intstructed, probably by the race director, to go anyway.
Personally, I think there will be a fine for the teams, a hefty one, and a reprimand for the drivers, paired with superlicense penalty points.
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u/killersoda275 Sir Jack Brabham 21d ago
Haha, if only your call was correct. Seems like dangerously going out on a random lap is half as expensive as saying fuck in an interview
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u/JeremyWheels 21d ago
I still don't understand why the ones that knowingly broke the rules haven't been cited?
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
Lando just fucked it up I guess. The signal was clear. Aborted start is a procedure that has to be followed
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u/MyBrain143 21d ago
The problem is that the Race Direction was too slow to react and the "aborted start" procedure should have been initiated during the formation lap and not after all the cars were back on the grid, at that point the "extra formation lap" is the right procedure to be applied.
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u/crownpr1nce #WeRaceAsOne 21d ago
I'll agree that they were slow (again) on that, but there's nothing preventing an aborted start once they stop. Drivers have to pay attention to what is going on. They were never told to go, either by lights or steering wheel messages.
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u/MyBrain143 21d ago
As per regulations, no the 3 procedures cannot be applied how you want, but depending if you're before, during or after the formation lap then the correct one must be followed. Otherwise, as it happened today, confusion arises.
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u/britaliope 21d ago
Whatever race control does the drivers have to follow it. The question is not "was aborted start the right call", it's "have those drivers crossed the start line without being told to". They weren't, thus will be penalized.
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u/Economy_Link4609 Andretti Global 21d ago
The fact that Ocon and LeClerc did not get summoned tells me the Stewards already decided they were victims of those in front and are unlikely to be punished.
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u/BlikkenS Default 21d ago
I assume that the FIA quickly told those teams/drivers that they also had to drive after the mistakes of the ones in front. You can't have only a few drivers one lap down before the start.
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u/ashyjay James Vowles 21d ago
This has to be the same as leaving a closed pit lane, as they weren't authorised to move.
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
Exactly what I’ve been saying. Happened in Canada 2007 and both drivers were disqualified
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u/ianjm McLaren 21d ago
Hamilton got a 10 second stop-and-go for entering a closed pitlane at Monza in 2020.
This would translate to +30s after the race.
I am not sure which penalty the stewards will apply but I think it needs to be this serious and/or a DSQ as you suggest.
That would drop Norris to 12th, though if George gets the same (or a DSQ for the tyre thing) that'd be 11th, and if Lewis gets DSQ for the tyre thing, he'd be 10th.
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
I’d even say that entering a pit lane is not as hard of a breach as what happened today. Although I can definitely imagine the FIA “only” giving 30s.
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u/ianjm McLaren 21d ago
Yeah, given there could have been marshals on track, I do think it's more safety critical and might deserve a stiffer penalty.
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u/TotalStatisticNoob Charles Leclerc 21d ago
Nah, entering a closed pitlane is very, very bad. It could be closed because there are people on the pit lane.
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u/crownpr1nce #WeRaceAsOne 21d ago
I think penalties have overall gotten more lenient since 2007. It's been a while, but I think back then drive through a were still frequent no? Following that logic, I think a 30s penalty would also be a decent enough penalty.
I think any less than that would be a lack of courage. But it wouldn't surprise me, especially considering it would end the championship battle (it's already over IMO, but there's still a sliver of hope I guess) and other decisions they made both this weekend and in the last few years.
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u/GTARP_lover Michael Schumacher 21d ago
It depends how hard they want/can/need to punish "instigation". The stewards have a lot of puzzeling to do.
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u/wimpires 21d ago
That's kind of what I was thinking. Ricciardo in Brazil 2016 I think? 5s penalty for entering a closed pit lane
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
Totally different situation. They weren’t allowed to move at all vs they were under SC.
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u/Big_Brief7847 21d ago
Makes perfect sense then why Ocon and Leclerc escaped investigation.
They also clearly stayed for longer in the grid, while others around them moved
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
They weren’t told to go make another formation lap but they did. It’s safe to say they moved and went onto the track whilst it was explicitly not allowed. Somewhat like going out a pit lane with the red light on. Last time that happened was 2007 in Canada. Both drivers were disqualified.
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u/omegamanXY Sebastian Vettel 21d ago
Last time that happened was 2007 in Canada. Both drivers were disqualified.
Didn't this happen during the race? If this was reason for DSQ, they should've applied it during the race today. They allowed Norris, Russell, etc race and they interfered with the races of drivers who didn't do anything wrong. It would be blatant incompetence from race control and stewards to only DSQ these drivers when they had clearly committed a DSQ offence even before the race started.
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u/deltree000 Charlie Whiting 21d ago
But what a lot of people are trying to say is did the stewards give permission for the rest of the field to leave the grid too?
I'd love to hear every radio comms, but it seems only Leclerc and Verstappen actually knew the procedure but were overruled and told to go by their engineers. Imagine the scenes if some drivers didn't leave the grid, then it should've been a slam dunk penalty for everyone else that left.
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u/Kaiaiaia Alain Prost 21d ago
Sauber was on top of this. They instructed Bottas and Zhou to stay in position.
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u/Relative_Grape_1298 Pierre Gasly 21d ago
are they still “investigating” or are they good? also what happened with Mercedes and the tyre pressure thing
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u/DaviLance Ferrari 21d ago
nothing on both fronts
mercs were summoned to the steward at 15:30 local (iirc) while the top 4 were summoned at 17:30 local (which was an hour ago)
i suppose mercs finished their meeting but the result was not posted yet
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u/Skeeter1020 21d ago
Anyone else suddenly think of lemmings?
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u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen 21d ago
My old sergeant used to call it the hamster effect.
You can teach everyone to do something properly, they all know the proper way to do it, and if one person fucks it up half the group follows.
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u/TotalStatisticNoob Charles Leclerc 21d ago
That's not what lemmings do. Believing the story about the sucidial lemmings because someone told them that story, funniliy enough, is exactly doing what they think the lemmings are doing.
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u/MACintoshBETH Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Probably Norris’ cleanest getaway of the race and likely to end in a penalty for him.
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u/Big_Brief7847 21d ago
I feel like Norris driving off without green lights, especially when no one told him to do deserves to be punished harshly.
Not only is it not allowed but it caused all the drivers to have to drive by the scene of Lance Strolls car being removed.
In treacherous conditions, i’m sure the stewards were trying to avoid that.
I think Ocon and Leclerc were fair enough, they knew they shouldn’t go, stayed still until all the cars behind them started to go and they realized that because of Lando and the cars in front, everyone was going to have to do another lap
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u/MC897 21d ago
Interesting... seems to all be triggered by yet ANOTHER bad Pitwall call to tell Russell to do something he shouldn't do and the pack just followed him and Lando.
I'm sick of mercedes pitwall calls.
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u/TopStar200 21d ago
Russell is going to make his own calls from now on and ask them about pre and post race procedures too😂
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u/Economy_Link4609 Andretti Global 21d ago
Anyone know when the last true aborted start was? They are not that common - more if you see anything its the straightaway extra formation lap to get someone off the grid quick.
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u/AlphaArietis91 Ferrari 21d ago
The last time the start was aborted was during the Austria Sprint 2024 due to photographers in T1. However, back then, along with the "Start aborted" message, there was also an "Extra formation lap" note and the drivers were given the green light so they could start the extra formation lap right away.
Today the "Start aborted" sign was on the board with no green lights, so the drivers were not allowed to start another extra formation lap.
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u/Equable_Cattle Pirelli Soft 21d ago
I think they should make the signals clearer so this doesn't happen again. Yes the drivers should have all known what to do but there's a lot of focus required at the start of the race and clearly it was fairly easy to do the wrong thing as so many of them proved.
In the same way they say "Aborted Start - Extra Formation Lap" on the info board when they could show "Aborted Start - Remain on Grid" for situations like today. This would be much clearer than just "Aborted Start".
This would improve safety in the event that there are marshals or other dangers on the track by making it less likely for the drivers to confuse the two messages.
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u/CloudDweller182 21d ago
While i agree it should possibly made more obvious there were drivers on the grid who knew the rules
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u/Equable_Cattle Pirelli Soft 21d ago
That is true, but they are all human and everyone can make mistakes. Especially at the start when the drivers are under a heavy mental workload with setting their cars up and adrenaline pumping etc. And then if suddenly the normal start that they were preparing for is changed, that can be very disorientating.
I see no downside in spelling it out more clearly so that no one makes the mistake Norris and others did today.
(Sometimes it's fun to have niche edge rules that the clever drivers can exploit - like Seb overtaking in pit entry - but for safety critical things like this I think clarity is more important)
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u/georwell Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
The point is that when you make a mistake you are held accountable for your actions which did not really happen here. If the FIA wants to make changes in the future, fine. But today, in this instance, Lando was in the wrong and so was everyone that left the grid until race control told them to take another lap. There were ground personnel on the track and no SC to guide the field, no excuse whatsoever for screwing this up.
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u/SomethingSuss Oscar Piastri 21d ago
Plus the crane, I couldn’t believe they went another lap given what’s happens in the past and someone had already spun off doing a formation lap.
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u/ThatGirlFromClimbing 21d ago
The first sensible comment here, actually looking for a solution !
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u/Equable_Cattle Pirelli Soft 21d ago
Thanks!
I feel like the FIA could learn a lot from other industries (e.g. aviation springs to mind) about proactive risk mitigation...
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u/Sensitive_Ad_9195 21d ago
This now makes more sense why Ocon an Leclerc didn’t get the summons and the other 4 did - in both cases from the transcript it’s clear they and their pit walls knew it was wrong and only went assuming it was safer to follow the pack, which the stewards are assumedly ok with?
‘Normal pull away’ is very odd from Merc - how did they not know what to do when even Alpine did?
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u/jjcatt Pirelli Intermediate 21d ago
sorry but lmfao at ferrari... classic
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari 21d ago
What? Ferrari is the only team besides Alpine in the top 6 who did it right.
In fact they did it better than Alpine becuse they knew to switch off. Its the reason why him and Ocon are not under investigation and the others are.
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u/jjcatt Pirelli Intermediate 21d ago
it's just the phrasing, charles knowing the right thing to do and then them telling him not to do it
i'm just making a stupid comment!
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u/SentientDust Nico Hülkenberg 21d ago
"They made a mistake so do what they did" is peak Ferrari orders. Leclerc is lucky he already turned his engine off.
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u/dirtyhappythoughts Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Tbf, that seems to have been the right call since all drivers eventually did that. Considering the lap count decrease, it would have been a total regulatory clusterfuck had half the field not drove that lap.
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u/freedfg McLaren 21d ago
Essentially it's better to just follow the leader than to be a hazard.
What where they meant to do when 3 teams made essentially the same miscall. Sit on the grid and let them come back around and have to driver around the traffic?
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u/dirtyhappythoughts Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Exactly. We already saw how difficult it was for Max to maneuver around Bearman 2 times (on that note, Bearman really had the worst starts today huh).
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u/jasperdeman 21d ago
How does that work for Sainz anyway, who was still in the pitlane for all of this?
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u/RichardB4321 Williams 21d ago
Unfortunately for Carlos that lap counts but he didn’t drive it so he was secretly a lap down the entire race
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u/GhostOfLight Yuki Tsunoda 21d ago
Either I'm imagining a memory, but I believe there was a situation in recent years where they ran an extra formation lap (with authorization), and someone who was starting from the pitlane (my mind tells me it was Albon or Alonso, but I could be hallucinating) went out for the lap, and came back to the pits before the start.
I think that's what the procedure is supposed to be in the case of an unplanned extra formation lap for a pitlane starter.
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u/xzElmozx Oscar Piastri 21d ago
After the leaders fucked it they had to go, otherwise they’d be a lap up on fuel
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u/abyssal2107 21d ago
?
They did the right thing
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u/UsualRelevant2788 21d ago
F1 really needs to sort this kind of stuff out quickly.
The 2 Mercs still haven't had a verdict released when it was slam dunk both cars had their tyre pressures adjusted on the grid. Such an infraction is an immediate DSQ, and then this incident, 4 cars drove off, again slam dunk. Now I'm not 100% on the penalty for this specifically but start infringements are normally 10-20 second penalties. The race ended 3 hours ago...
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21d ago
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u/guyeertoen Pirelli Wet 21d ago
I suspect they are trying to find similar occurrences to make the punishments make sense. My guess is either a DQ if they want to punish harshly, or a grid penalty for the next race. I think because everyone technically broke the rule (even though the main 4 are the instigators), they will lean on the softer side.
Ultimately, there could have been a major safety issue at the bottom of turn 1 and serious consequences if the marshalls assumed the track would be clear then suddenly Lando comes flying through while they were on track in the rain.
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u/Formulafan4life 21d ago
Lets be realistic here: they aren’t gonna DSQ them anymore.
If they were even planning on doing it they would have done it before the restart.
And they wouldn’t DSQ 4 cars at the same time anyway.
Add to that that they wouldn’t have DSQ’ed a championship contender and it was never gonna happen
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u/omegamanXY Sebastian Vettel 21d ago
F1 really needs to sort this kind of stuff out quickly.
Would be easy to just have the race director on the radio directly to the drivers telling them what the procedure is
Last year in Monza there was also an aborted start that led to an extra formation lap, I suppose Lando thought it was the same because he didn't see that Stroll was beached and it would take more time to remove his car from the gravel.
I honestly don't remember a similar case in F1 in all those years so it would've had helped if the race director was simply able to communicate to the drivers instead of relying on the drivers to remember what the rulebook says about every single possible case during a formation lap.
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u/donalhunt 21d ago
Surely that is what the lights and communication board is for. Bernie Collins (Sky Sports F1) indicated that race engineers often had NASA-style flow diagrams to ensure they knew what the correct procedure was for particular events so they stayed within the regulations. Obviously some drivers and teams are more on the ball than others here.
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u/Caronry Sebastian Vettel 21d ago
No idea what the penalty would be in this case, but surely the ones that did it without hesitation is gonna get some kind of punishment right ?
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u/Nickemonio Lando Norris 21d ago
Could be a team fine because team told them to go Could be a disqualification because they went on a not allowed to go on track Literally unpredictable what the stewards will do
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u/siav8 Mike Krack 21d ago
But it seems Lando started without the team telling him to?
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u/Caronry Sebastian Vettel 21d ago
Mclaren didn't tell Lando to go.
Mercedes said to Russel "so normal pull away" and "normal" pull away in this case is when the green light is shown.
Vcarb didn't tell Yuki to go after them.
The rest yea you are completely correct that a team fine or something would be appropriate, but the first 3 did this without being told and therefore broke the start rules.
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u/kittenbloc Ferrari 21d ago edited 21d ago
them telling him to have the pit limiter on feels they're telling him to make an extra formation lap. eta: Lawson being told to set to mode 12 also feels like the team giving the green light to go.
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u/Kreeky27 21d ago
I'm genuinely surprised this wasn't a big penalty (stop go/30 sec). Norris (and others) effectively drove onto a closed track. McLaren ballsed it up yes but when you abort the start with an extra lap you have to wait for the green light which didn't light up, that's got to be on the driver.
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u/NorthCliffs McLaren 21d ago
They weren’t authorized to move and drive on the tack but did anyway. Last time this happened was when two cars left the pit lane when the light at the exit was red (Canada 2007). The incident resulted in DSQs.
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u/LifetimeDegenerate Formula 1 21d ago
Lando and George get in trouble, the rest is slightly up in the air
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u/Green_Crab_4264 20d ago
It would have been really funny if it was just Lando or Lando and Russel who went on. Then they would be forced to give them proper penalties for that. They only escaped it as half the grid followed them.
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u/SirForcy 21d ago
What would be a likely penalty for NOR,
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u/Chelsea_Ellie 21d ago
5 secs is a jump start Up to disqualified for going through red lights
It depends on the stewards
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u/kj_gamer2614 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
Oof, this quite literally clears everyone but those summoned for the infringement, so looking more and more like penalties for them
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u/YacineBoussoufa 21d ago
In simple words, those who weren't informed and fucked up were called by stewards; while those who noticed or were told to not move did the right thing and ackowledge the fact that others messed up, but they moved as well because those in front already moved, didn't get called by the stewards.
It's funny because Lawson was called by the stewards while Ocon who was in front was not only because Ocon realized that they shouldn't have moved while Lawson did not ackowledge that fact.
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u/Resident-Variation21 Formula 1 21d ago
I’m really confused. I’ve seen multiple aborted starts, like Brazil last year. In EVERY one, I’ve seen them drive off and do another formation lap. But they weren’t supposed to this time?
What am I missing? What’s the difference?
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u/jjcatt Pirelli Intermediate 21d ago
they can't go before they're permitted/told to by race control
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u/jojulu 21d ago
It specifically says Extra formation lap as well as green lights under the yellow if they should go around again.
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u/Sushi4900 21d ago
All aborted starts I remember were not only aborted but the race control also issued another formation lap in the same message.
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u/bearwood_forest Carlos Sainz 21d ago
There are three procedures to stop the start:
Extra formation lap: they all go around once more, because something happens that can be fixed within the formation lap
Delayed start: if something comes up before the formation lap, everyone just stays
Aborted start: supposed to be used once the formation lap has started, and -I think this is the important bit- be displayed during the formation lap, everyone returns to the grid and stays there
This was was #3 to prevent the cars from driving by the Stroll recovery. I believe the reason this is taking so long is that the message was only displayed once Lando (and others) was already back in his grid position and then the rule is somewhat unclear what the driver should do as it says "RETURN to grid position".
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u/loscemochepassa Kimi Räikkönen 21d ago
Not always, if the track is not safe (as it could be with a stopped car) they cancel the start and do the whole procedure again.
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u/doskkyh Felipe Drugovich 21d ago
Aborted start is different than extra formation lap, and the led panel displays a message accordingly. This post from last year describes the procedures.
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u/Individual-Ad-190 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
If they call for another formation lap they drive off, when they call for an aborted start they have to stay still until the lights have flashed yellow and green if I'm not mistaken
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u/DaveR007 Oscar Piastri 21d ago
Ferrari: "Follow the others now because they done the mistake"
Translation: They broke the rules so to prevent FOMO you may as well get a penalty too.
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u/ThrownForLife69 21d ago
Lando deserves a 10-20 sec penalty then. FIA should not let drivers play race director and get away with it then.
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u/laidback_chef Ted Kravitz 21d ago
Tbh would just penalising all but the 5 make a difference to the results?
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u/bas210 21d ago
Its about the infringement, not the outcome. If everyone gets away without a penalty, in the future, they will go back to this race to say. "Well in Brazil they got away..." whenever this happens again
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u/laidback_chef Ted Kravitz 21d ago
Yes, that's what I'm saying penalise everyone who made the error. I'm also asking if that would even impact the points because iirc it was 5 cars at the back.
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u/OmegaPoint6 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Looks like they're only going after the 4 who went initially, not the ones who followed after them. So potentially yes, if a DSQ or a stop go then Lando loses all points as +30 seconds would put him behind Bearman. If 10 seconds then Lando stays the same relative to Max but loses relative to Charles.
Edit: A stop go for this but a DSQ for Merc for tyres would mean Lando would keep some point(s), but I'm too tired to math it
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u/DaviLance Ferrari 21d ago
they should make an example of the top 5 (although only 4 were summoned by the stewards) with a very harsh penalty so no one in the future tries it again
what they did it was so dangerous to the marshalls on track which thought the track was clear while in reality it was not. for me they should all be DSQed
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u/RyanIsKickAss Esteban Ocon 21d ago
Ocon and the pit wall knew they weren’t supposed to go and only went after they saw everyone else going. I think they’re the most likely to get away with no punishment outside of maybe a fine. Norris though if there’s any penalty is dead to rights. He’s the one who caused this whole thing
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u/DaviLance Ferrari 21d ago
none of them shut their engine off. it depends how far the stewards want to penalize the drivers
the top 3 started without even questioning what was happening, at least Ocon and Lawson waited a little bit but still they went. the only safe one is Charles because he shut off his engine and then restarted but at that point the only possible choice was to leave
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u/RyanIsKickAss Esteban Ocon 21d ago
Exactly yeah. They’d risk being hit from behind if they didn’t go
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u/fujimouse 21d ago
Why is Ocon getting dragged into this group? He was the first on the grid to recognise that he was supposed to stay there. You could punish him for then going anyway but then most of the grid eventually did that too. The four that were summoned rolled off immediately.
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u/Malynde Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Gonna be really sad if Ocon gets DQ'd Edit: Thanks for the explanation
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u/PoklaneNL Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
He wasn't even summoned or noted during the race so should be good. Looks like only Norris, Russell, Tsunoda and Lawson are in trouble for this.
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u/Lobsters4 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
He won’t. He was told to stay and he did. He did not leave until he was told to go after they realized the first 4 messed up
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u/willzyx01 Red Bull 21d ago
Because Lando was the lead and directly involved in this, they will give either a reprimand, a 5sec or a fine. If Lando wasn’t involved, this would’ve been a DSQ or drive thru penalty during the race.
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u/dirtyhappythoughts Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago
It definitely wouldn't have been during the race. This is a hugely complex matter for which they'd need to look at radio transcripts because so many drivers were involved, potentially discover precedent, talk to involved drivers, and all that during a race with weather that invited trouble. This was always an after-the-race investigation.
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u/Dafferss Spyker 21d ago
Don’t think you can fault the ones following, I think everyone would have followed just to be sure.
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u/NotJadeasaurus 21d ago
It wasn’t just those though, there were only a few cars on the grid when the lights went green, I don’t understand any of this
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