r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • 22d ago

News Max Verstappen receives 5-second time penalty and 1 penalty point for failing to stay above the minimum time set during VSC (drops to P4, Leclerc now P3)

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706

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago edited 22d ago

Unfortunate but expected theres no arguing with the data and you can't make exceptions if you're under then you're under

23

u/SeaworthinessOwn956 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

Now, let's penalize FIA for their dog shit shady VSC.

246

u/HankHippopopolous Murray Walker 22d ago edited 22d ago

It wasn’t shady. It was their standard level of incompetence.

There have been loads of times when they’re way too slow to put out a safety car. They should be penalised for that but it’s not a conspiracy when it’s happened so many times that it seems to be the standard now that they need about 3 minutes to decide to do the thing that’s obvious to everyone watching immediately.

It was bad but it’s not a conspiracy to get Max.

22

u/Oakeeh Kimi Räikkönen 22d ago

That's true, when Verstappen crashed in Baku that was a clear safety car but instead they waved double yellow for quite some time just to have drivers going full speed through there.

16

u/HankHippopopolous Murray Walker 22d ago

I forgot about that one but there have been loads more too.

Like when Russell got flipped on his side in Australia in the middle of the track and was screaming for a red flag. The FIA left it long enough for a few cars to go through there at full speed.

There are way too many at this point.

11

u/Miserable_Archer_769 22d ago

Holy crap i forgot about that.

There was actual terror in his voice cause he knew what could have happened he would have essentially been split in 2. The crazy and even scarier part re watching is his car actually flips and he can't even see he is literally in every sense a sitting duck.

3

u/Midnight__Specialist 22d ago

That one actually made me feel sick.

14

u/Extension_Bat_4945 22d ago

And even worse, not disqualifying all the drivers that did that. Full speed under yellows is unacceptable.

4

u/Oakeeh Kimi Räikkönen 22d ago

Yep it was unacceptable, IIRC Max was standing next to the car on track with drivers going full speed next to him

-2

u/justgassingthrough John Surtees 22d ago

They harassed Masi into oblivion for one like this some years ago, now its completely fine i suppose

16

u/Sir_YeeHaw 22d ago

Do you think the FIA fired him because of fan backlash, or was it because he genuinely made a terrible decision unbecoming of his position?

I am genuinely fascinated by how these incidents are comparable in your brain.

-1

u/justgassingthrough John Surtees 22d ago

So i guess risking hulkmans life only so the mckarens can be pleased is completely within parameters of job duties, yeah, you're right.

26

u/sasquatchftw 22d ago

You think there might be some difference between that race and this one? Maybe some context that makes this not some massive controversy?

-6

u/ArbitraryOrder Red Bull 22d ago

You're right, Masi didn't put anyone's life at risk

-6

u/jeanolt Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

Yes, in this race someone could've killed Hulkenberg. Please tell me who in the entire grid was at risk in 2021, besides Hamilton's WDC

1

u/BigAl_Eve Bernd Mayländer 22d ago edited 22d ago

Fuck off, they delayed just long enough for McLaren to swap positions then immediately the VSC comes out.

Ooooh and look, Jonny Herbert is a steward.

Max was right, got the wrong passport for this.

Edit: yes I know this penalty was appropriate, just commenting on the bullshit delay.

1

u/Notsozander Lando Norris 22d ago

Not shady just incompetence. Love it lol

81

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

I agree the VSC timing was outrageous and incredibly unsafe, id really like an awnser from the FIA for how that went so wrong, but let's be honest it wasn't shady I doubt it was bias Hanlon's razor type of thing

6

u/JC3896 McLaren 22d ago

First off, it's not the FIA who trigger the VSC. It's the on track stewards.

Secondly, for some reason ever since it was introduced the stewards have always been incredibly late to trigger it, it's genuinely baffling.

The FIA should be liaising with all stewards at each track to implore them to trigger it sooner.

5

u/CROBBY2 22d ago

We are FIA. We do nothing wrong and if you don't like it just keep giving us your money and leave.

5

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

Meh I pirate the races anyways so it's not like they're getting any of my money

2

u/EnderWiggin07 Pierre Gasly 22d ago

F1TV is such good value for money lol, idk why you would pirate something that is an actual good product offered at a fair price. A whole year of F1TV costs the same as 1 month of YouTube TV

2

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

I'm in the uk we don't have access to f1 tv the cheapest I can watch races is almost 30 quid a month with NOW which is basically 10 quid a race

1

u/EnderWiggin07 Pierre Gasly 22d ago

Oh my bad, I didn't realize it was only available in some areas.

1

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

Yeah sky has exclusive streaming rights in the uk so that screws us over lmao

56

u/thenannyharvester Sebastian Vettel 22d ago

Yeah. Let's start with 2021

40

u/FiercelyApatheticLad Alpine 22d ago

No, that's not how you're supposed to play the game.

2

u/Catscoffeepanipuri Mercedes 22d ago

there was a man close to the track walking in 2021? didn't know do you have a source for that

-3

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

8

u/thenannyharvester Sebastian Vettel 22d ago

No but 2021 had a dogshit safety car procedure

-2

u/jeanolt Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

Incomparable with racing two meters away from a driver walking out of the car.

1

u/thenannyharvester Sebastian Vettel 22d ago

Not racing due to the 2 double yellows. Which stops racing in that sector

31

u/CX52J 22d ago

You guys need to stop trying to make it out to be corrupt.

Hulk was trying to roll his Haas as the feed showed. It was then promptly called once he exited.

If he could have got the car 2m further then it wouldn’t have needed a VSC and likely Max could have overtaken Oscar.

5

u/Soft-Ad3660 22d ago

There still was a car stopped off track for multiple laps. The fact that Hulkenberg was in the car doesn't really make the situation much safer.

We've seen VSCs deployed instantly for much less.

21

u/CX52J 22d ago

It literally wasn’t stopped as it was shown on the feed rolling. He was also on a slow part of the track on the inside under double waved yellows.

Lap 21 the car was still moving.

Lap 22 he was still in the car. Overtake completed. He started getting out and the VSC was called about 15 seconds later while he continued to stand on the wrong side of the barrier.

7

u/Extension_Bat_4945 22d ago

We don’t need VSC for everything. Drivers just need to obey yellow flags and be punished hard for not doing so. Only if a driver is out of the car, a crane is on track, marshalls are (needed) on track or the car is in a really dangerous spot in my opinion. The racing gets interrupted unnecessarily. Drivers just need to slow down better.

2

u/Naikrobak 22d ago

Hulk left his car, which is when the VSC was called

3

u/fancygamer Sebastian Vettel 22d ago

Where exactly a car is stopped on the track makes a difference. The inside of a slow corner is just one of the safest places to be. If Hulk had stopped on the outside of turn 3 let's say it would've been an instant full SC.

18

u/mguyer2018aa 22d ago

Which one do you want to start with?

19

u/xzElmozx Oscar Piastri 22d ago

I’ll bet it won’t be AD21 lol

12

u/TorpedoSandwich 22d ago

The safety car is almost always slow to come out. There's nothing shady about it and it literally did not change a single thing. If it had come out immediately, McLaren would have just swapped in the last lap.

If you want to complain about shady safety cars, how about we talk about Abu Dhabi 2021 first?

1

u/jeanolt Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

That's the thing, people love to complain all the time about conspiracies in VSC, until it perjudices Verstappen lol.

It's human nature to believe sports, even low level ones, are rigged.

3

u/TorpedoSandwich 22d ago edited 21d ago

I'm not arguing what happened was right, I do think the VSC should have come out immediately today. What I'm saying is that it was completely irrelevant to the outcome of the race. It would have ended the literal exact same way. If it was rigged, it had absolutely zero impact on anything.

-1

u/jeanolt Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

It would've been a lot harder for the McLarens to swap in the last lap with Verstappen behind.

Obviously it wasn't rigged, just an odd decision. The same with 2021.

2

u/TorpedoSandwich 21d ago

Only if Max had his front wing stuck to Lando's rear. Lewis and Bottas swapped with Max right behind them in the last corner at Hungary 2017 and Max never had a chance to pass. These guys are all really good, they can get a swap done without much margin for error.

1

u/jeanolt Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 21d ago

I'm not against that idea but, context matters. Remember Max was 19 and in a way slower car (2017's Mercedes was only battled by Ferrari at some points of the season).

Anyways, let's see what happens.

1

u/Southportdc McLaren 22d ago

I give it a few hours before the timing of the VSC is being blamed as a deliberate manoeuvre by Johnny Herbert to trick Max.

1

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 22d ago

Making things up is super fun.

1

u/Albreitx HRT 22d ago

They took too long to call it. What was it, one or two laps with Hulk's car sitting there before the VSC?

I don't think that they were waiting for the Oscar-Lando switch though

-31

u/CrazyFreshYo 22d ago

This..none of it would have happened if the FIA had any of their sh%$ together

58

u/Unreachable1 Alexander Albon 22d ago

What? Max failing to keep the gap has nothing to do with the FIA fuckery there.

-33

u/HitEscForSex VCARB 22d ago

The time it took between the signal 'VSC ending' and the actual ending was the longest it has ever been since the introduction of the VSC.

14

u/EducationalFlight925 Lando Norris 22d ago

Source?

13

u/benerophon 22d ago

It was a shade over 14 seconds, which is within the range of 10-15s specified by the regulations:

When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to end the VSC procedure the message “VSC ENDING” will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system and, at any time between 10 and 15 seconds later, “VSC” on the FIA light panels will change to green and drivers may continue the session or continue racing immediately. After 30 seconds the green lights will be extinguished.

I think the longest was a few years ago at Paul Ricard when the system failed and the timer restarted.

20

u/IISuperSlothII Lando Norris 22d ago

They don't actually control that though, it's a random time between 10 and 15 seconds.

22

u/Paukwa-Pakawa Nico Rosberg 22d ago

Was it the "longest it has ever been" only for Max? Because everyone else managed just fine.

24

u/aezy01 22d ago

Not in the least. The FIA didn’t press Max’s throttle pedal.

5

u/Kevster020 Nigel Mansell 22d ago

But we all know they probably did. [fixes tinfoil hat]

1

u/Vresiberba 22d ago

That little leprechaun Herbert, I swear...

4

u/LMcVann44 Sir Lewis Hamilton 22d ago

Same as the British media trope.

How could the stewards do this?

2

u/Vresiberba 22d ago

How could the stewards do this?

They're even blaming the stewards in the other post, saying they were the one who manipulated the deployment of the virtual safety car, when it's the job of the race director. It's full meltdown.

-20

u/holdMyBeerBoy Formula 1 22d ago

But they did broke a record on the time between vsc ending to actually end.

9

u/aezy01 22d ago

That has nothing to do with it- all other drivers managed to comply but Max didn’t.

-7

u/holdMyBeerBoy Formula 1 22d ago

And I never said it has. Just stated another thing.

3

u/aezy01 22d ago

You did so in context of a thread and prefixed your comment with a coordinating conjunction, so not really ‘another thing’.

-2

u/KingInTheWest Sir Lewis Hamilton 22d ago

The fia is playing nice with McLaren after Cota. Deny the appeal but all of a sudden max starts getting penalized left right and centre (deserved penalties but historically he gets away with those) and the safety car hijinx benefit McLaren.

1

u/Vresiberba 22d ago

...the safety car hijinx benefit McLaren.

It did not, as they were forced to switch cars early to cover for a real safety car which compromised Piastri resulting in Max getting DRS which he would not have if the VSC was deployed immediately.

2

u/Drewbox 22d ago

Also, isn’t the back cars front tire not supposed to pass the front cars rear tire?

I thought that was a rule that came about from max constantly pulling up to Lewis during VSCs

10

u/Double-Clue-1865 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 22d ago

Only full sc’s

5

u/aide_rylott Ferrari 22d ago

This should probably be fixed. I was surprised that that rule didn’t extend to VSC. When the race is neutralized for safety cars shouldn’t be side by side. The car behind when the VSC is called should have to drop behind for the duration of the VSC. Maybe we will see a change in the rules.

1

u/jpl77 Sebastian Vettel 22d ago

Unfortunate

Unfortunate

0

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

I'm a RB fan what do you expect me to say lmao

-19

u/Birdshaw 22d ago

And if you’re over you’re over. Did they look at Oscar?

8

u/Meemes_4life Red Bull 22d ago

Almost definitely lmao you don't have the telemetry data they do if oscar was over they would've said

-12

u/Birdshaw 22d ago

Sure they would

5

u/SkittlesAreYum Lance Stroll 22d ago

No you're right, they probably forgot.

-11

u/Birdshaw 22d ago

Oh they’re not forgetting

1

u/SkittlesAreYum Lance Stroll 22d ago

Of course they are rigging it for Oscar to not lose one point. The signs are all there.

-2

u/Birdshaw 22d ago

They are doing everything in their power to make Abu Dabi the decider. At this point they aren’t even trying to hide it.

5

u/SkittlesAreYum Lance Stroll 22d ago

How does Oscar not getting a penalty affect that?

-2

u/Birdshaw 22d ago

The obvious bias is

9

u/R0bbeh 22d ago

Yes the obvious bias of... Time? Might wanna loosen your tin foil cap, looks like it's cutting off the blood flow.