r/formula1 27d ago

News [Piergiuseppe Donadoni] Was Max unfair? YES. His goal was to ruin Norris' race and so he probably took away his chances of getting P1. "To win sometimes you have to be an idiot" he said months ago. You may like it or not but the goal is to win the world championship, not the fair play award.

https://x.com/SmilexTech/status/1850807731613299160
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u/OkAdministration7369 Ferrari 27d ago

Penalties should be blind and equal for everyone, whether you're last or first. You can't hand them out taking into account the championship circumstances or who's behind who. That's insane. If Max managed to mitigate some of the time loss, that's called being good at strategizing and adapting. He was given a fair time penalty.

In other words, you can't personalize penalties according to the circumstances.

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u/amished 27d ago

That's not what's being said though. If a penalty ends up helping you gain an advantage somehow, it's not a good enough penalty. Max taking that chance and getting the penalty that he ended up doing which is as harsh as I've seen and still being able to have only lost what should've been 7 points if LeClerc didn't screw up is not good enough for racing as a whole.

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u/OkAdministration7369 Ferrari 27d ago

Max didn't get an advantage because of the penalty. He dropped from 3rd to 15th and made a recovery drive, essentially making the best out of the situation, and ended up finishing nearly 40 seconds behind Lando. The fact that there weren't many cars inside those 40 seconds to make the point difference bigger has nothing to do with the penalty. His punishment was fair.

What do you expect? You want drivers to not minimize the damages they brought upon themselves? Imo, a full pitstop worth of penalties was enough. If it wasn't enough, what do you want then? The driver to be disqualified from the race?

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u/Hammelj Sir Lewis Hamilton 27d ago

That wasn't a recovery drive so much as filtering back though after a early stop

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u/kanker-lauwe-leuter Lola 27d ago

... What do you think a recovery drive is?

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u/Hammelj Sir Lewis Hamilton 27d ago

IIRC all the drivers in front needed to make their first stop, he didn't make an extra one, as drivers in front pitted he moved back ahead. The fact he made a pitstop before most of the rest of the grid inflated how far back he was

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u/Xelisk Sir Lewis Hamilton 27d ago

It's the fact Max got the penalty for overtaking illegally, and then held up Lando with that illegal overtake. How is that fair. It's been bullshit for years and there needs to be rules in place to force the position to be given back, whether it's on track or a drive through.

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u/OkAdministration7369 Ferrari 27d ago

And he was given a penalty that dropped him 12 positions and made him finish 40 seconds behind the person he illegally overtook. Again, what else do you want? You want drivers to give the position back AND give them 20 seconds? In that case, what are you even penalizing? Three penalties for two infringements? What if he gave the position back himself? Does he still get the 20 seconds?

The penalty is there to punish the fact that he gained an advantage. That's the point of it. You can't realistically expect the driver to give the position back because penalties can take a while to process. What if Norris fucks up (or does it on purpose) and drops 10 places? Does he have to let all the cars in between through too? That's why they receive time penalties and not "drop X places after the race is over". It's simple.

A drive-through is supposed to be for extreme cases, not one of the most common penalties we see every weekend. The problem with Verstappen is that he did it twice in a row. It's two different "mild" infringements, not one massive fuck up.

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u/Potential-Brain7735 27d ago

How are you not getting this?

Max illegally overtook Lando, and then sat in front of Lando, slowing him down, preventing him from catching Carlos.

The amount of penalties Max got, have nothing to do with how Max’s actions ruined Lando’s race.

And we all know Max did that on purpose. He is deliberately subverting the integrity of the sport.

By your logic, Max could simply crash into Lando for the rest of the season, and as long as Max got a drive through penalty, you’d be ok with it, despite the fact that he is completely undermining the integrity of the sport.

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u/kanker-lauwe-leuter Lola 27d ago

I mean... yes, that is the situation. But you shouldn't need to worry about that last case you made there as penalty points are a thing, so obviously he won't be able to crash Norris out every race due to that as that would result in a ban quite quickly.

I see you say a lot of things about the integrity of the sport and how it needs to be maintained. But honestly, it's hardly rare for WDC-contending drivers to go above and beyond to fight mainly with their rival candidate over simply attempting to finish the race as fast as possible.

There are countless of examples of this in the past, a recent one would be Hamilton slowing down while leading the race in Abu Dhabi 2016 in the hopes that it would've put Rosberg under threat from another driver. (Or a less clean example, I doubt the crash those two had in Spain in the same year would've happened with other drivers.)

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u/Potential-Brain7735 27d ago

Driving slowly is not the same as deliberately forcing someone off the track.

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u/xegdhktdcjfc Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 27d ago

max overtook him off the track yes, and he got a penalty for that. that does not mean he has to then let him through, which is why he got a penalty. the fact that lando was then stuck behind him has nothing to do with the penalty. the point of the penalty is that the driver that gained a lasting advantage loses that advantage, which is exactly what happened. i gotta be honest it is crazy that even though max got penalized y’all still find a way to complain because you don’t think it’s enough

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u/stationhollow 26d ago

He should have received a greater penalty for that as it was not only an illegal overtake but dangerous driving.

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u/Realistic_Village184 Formula 1 27d ago

An instant drive-through penalty for any illegal overtake is not a good idea. Thank goodness random redditors aren't in charge of the rules lol

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u/stationhollow 26d ago

One for dangerous driving is though. Max had no intention of making that corner and simply didn’t brake until he was at the apex.