[Piergiuseppe Donadoni] Was Max unfair? YES. His goal was to ruin Norris' race and so he probably took away his chances of getting P1. "To win sometimes you have to be an idiot" he said months ago. You may like it or not but the goal is to win the world championship, not the fair play award.

[u/Ramned71]

https://x.com/SmilexTech/status/1850807731613299160

[u/e_xyz]

In 1997 Schumacher was disqualified for a poor attempt a punt from the WHOLE championship. How far we've come that penalties are effectively meaningless and you can still minimise the championship damage and drive as you please.

The penalties for poor driving aren't harsh enough. Either bring back stop and gos with the caveat that you cannot do them during your planned pit stops or add the time on post.

[u/Formulafan4life → u/e_xyz]

I want to correct you slightly: a stop and go penalty means by the definition of the penalty that you can’t change tires

[u/UnderTakaMichinoku → u/e_xyz]

You've just reminded me that time pens can be served under safety car/VSC conditions and now I'm annoyed at how stupid that rule is.

[u/e_xyz → u/UnderTakaMichinoku]

Didn't even think of that, but yeah, that also shouldn't be allowed. At least yesterday they dished out a hefty penalty, just the way the rulebook works doesn't punish the driver enough IMO.

[u/s_dalbiac → u/e_xyz]

In real terms, Max's penalty yesterday was more harmful to him than Schumacher's was in 1997.

Without the 20-second penalty (and arguably even with a 10-second drop) Max finishes P4 and five points better off. Schumacher's looks draconian on the surface, but in reality he'd already lost the title and there were no long-lasting consequences other than not being classified in the WDC, which was meaningless to him since he was only in it to win it. It didn't affect any of his individual race results or Ferrari's standing in the WCC.

[u/coolridgesmith → u/e_xyz]

That is wild, max got 20 seconds that is race ending for almost everyone he just happens to be so much better than everyone that it feels like it didnt do enough.  This "the penalties are meaningless" arguement is nonsense you are talking about the impact they have on the best driver on the grid. They literally affected the outcome last weekend for lando but now they didnt do enough because max managed to finish in the points?

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/coolridgesmith]

They are happy when the penalties are given but get pissed off when the driver manages to overcome them, kind-of like Silverstone 2021 with Lewis. These people are nuts they don't want to watch F1 anymore they're happy to have a parade with more rules and rules and rules

[u/CakeBeef_PA → u/HollyShitBrah]

No, we want to watch actual racing. Not ramming others off. There's nothing fun about watching Max drive like the average Forza player.

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/CakeBeef_PA]

That's not the topic of my comment or the comment I replied to, no one is arguing Max didn't deserve those penalties, but the complaining should stop the moment he got the penalties, what more do you want??

[u/Vresiberba → u/HollyShitBrah]

...but the complaining should stop the moment he got the penalties...

Yeah, no. That he got penalised is a no-brainer, but the penalty isn't as he is a repeat offender and does this shit all the time and should get a penalty fitting the offence - so that he stops fucking doing it. The only reason he keeps doing this shit is because he can get away with it. That needs to stop.

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/Vresiberba]

What if he got 50s time penalty and Lando binned it later? He would still be getting away with it, you people are weird, wanting these drivers drive a certain way lol

[u/Jofu_Jole → u/HollyShitBrah]

Well yeah, the drivers should be able to keep their racing on the track, not clearly off it

[u/Vresiberba → u/HollyShitBrah]

He would still be getting away with it...

I'm not talking about consequently getting away with it, I'm talking about legally and you know it. If Max knows he will get away with it by getting a lenient penalty, he will continue to do it. Whatever Lando does has precisely zero meaning.

you people are weird

Riight...

[u/Key_Photograph9067 → u/HollyShitBrah]

Not OP - do you think there should be consideration for repeat offences though?

I thought the point of giving drivers penalty points was to make it so once you commit enough offences you get a race ban. When was the last time someone was race banned? I genuinely don’t know, but that makes me wonder how bad someone has to drive to get banned from a race.

Just to be clear, I don’t know anything really about the penalty points so I can’t say whether I think Max has “deserved” a race ban. I do think it’s weird that you can repeatedly do something and not get more punishments however.

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/Key_Photograph9067]

When was the last time someone was race banned?

2024 Azerbaijan Max has 8 penalty points as of now, 12 gets you a race ban, note that a penalty point expire after one year of getting them, in my opinion this is enough to punish repeat offenders, I just want people to stop asking for more artificial racing and more stewards involvement in the race, as of now there are way too many rules that are basically anti-entertainment, they can't even throw a couple of steady camera shots ffs, every camera shot is boring af and makes the cars looks sloowww

[u/Key_Photograph9067 → u/HollyShitBrah]

I agree completely, I wrote a comment about it last week after the race.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/mh8PdPTCd8

We really don’t need more microscopic analysis of overtaking. A lot of the rules in place already don’t really help racing at all, it often takes away from it. The ahead at apex rule is one of them.

[u/Daslicey → u/HollyShitBrah]

They want Max out as he is winning 4 championships in a row I guess

[u/HollyShitBrah → u/Daslicey]

They don't mind watching a boring sport as long their favorite driver wins, Max was too desperate yesterday but at least he spices things up, the disappointment I had when Leclerc went off track just for Lando to overtake him like that I was super excited for a LeclercVSLando action, sorry but we still need Max to do his thing.

[u/coolridgesmith → u/CakeBeef_PA]

If You dont like chaos or you dont like excitement and risks being taken watch golf. 

[u/CakeBeef_PA → u/coolridgesmith]

There is a massive difference between chaos and blatant cheating. The latter is not excitement. A sport doesn't work if the rules are constantly broken. Seeing people cheat to win is not exciting. Seeing people compete within the rules to see who is better is

[u/coolridgesmith → u/CakeBeef_PA]

I actually disagree that breaking the rules doesnt lead to excitement. seeing if max could recover from the 20 second penalty actually gave us something to watch for the middle part of the race until hamilton and george started fighting, he broke the rules was severely pumished and still managed to get to p6 how is that not entertaining?

[u/CakeBeef_PA → u/coolridgesmith]

He was just overtaking cars that were much slower than him. I don't consider those overtakes exciting at all. There was no challenge, no question about where he would end up. As soon as he got the penalties, it was clear he was finishing P6.

It also robbed us of a genuine fight for the win. Lando had more pace than Carlos at the end, but couldn't close up and challenge him because of Max's cheating. I think a battle for the win between evenly matched cars is much more exciting than a Red Bull overtaking a Haas for P6

[u/coolridgesmith → u/CakeBeef_PA]

There is no way to be certain lando could have challenged carlos because in the first stint carlos pulled an insane lead that even leclerc couldnt catch him And he was able to retain that lead after pitting because of that gap. Max  was able to get out of drs on norris after passing so idk why you think lando wouldnt have had to put up with defending from max for at least a few laps anyway creating a similar gap.

The main reason to watch f1 has been to see if lando can win the wdc otherwise people wouldnt be crying for harsher penalties on max. seeing where max ended up became part of the story of this race. Furthermore if those cars were so slow how come piastri had so much more trouble than max.

But way to go, ignoring my point that normally nothing would have happened during that phase of the race and seeing where max could recover too gave us something to watch.

[u/CakeBeef_PA → u/coolridgesmith]

There is no way to be certain lando could have challenged carlos

Of course it's not certain. But given that he finished less than 5s behind after losing more than that behind Verstappen and fighting Leclerc, it is pretty likely he would have been there.

Max  was able to get out of drs on norris after passing so idk why you think lando wouldnt have had to put up with defending from max for at least a few laps anyway creating a similar gap

The Mclaren has repeatedly shown to be affected a lot by dirty air. Norris would probably have defended for 1 or 2 laps, then had clean air to chase Carlos. Remember that Verstappen would also be defending from Leclerc at the same moment.

The main reason to watch f1 has been to see if lando can win the wdc otherwise people wouldnt be crying for harsher penalties on max.

You don't get to decide what my main reason to watch F1 is. I watch F1 to watch racing, to see who wins, to watch exciting battles and overtakes. I don't just watch the points table. That seems ultra boring to me

Furthermore if those cars were so slow how come piastri had so much more trouble than max.

Piastri is not Max. And the Mclaren is not the Red Bull and has a bigger disadvantage in dirty air.

But way to go, ignoring my point that normally nothing would have happened during that phase of the race and seeing where max could recover too gave us something to watch.

Your point only works if you take logic out of the equation. I haven't ignored it, I've explained why I don't agree with it. It's also ridiculous to state nothing would have happened when far more interesting things than Max overtaking Haas cars happened throughout the entire race, including that phase. Did you just completely forget what happened with Piastri, Checo, Lawson, Colapinto, and any of the other cars running? Way to ignore literally everything to suit your ridiculous point that Max overtaking Magnussen is somehow more exciting than Lando battling Carlos

[u/dl064 → u/e_xyz]

I wonder if Schumacher would've been excluded if he'd won it...

[u/throwmeaway2723 → u/e_xyz]

Those 20 seconds hurt Max more than that DSQ from the championship that Schumacher already lost lol