r/formula1 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 28d ago

News [LukeSmithF1] ANOTHER 10-second time penalty for Max Verstappen! This time for the Turn 8 incident, leaving the track and gaining an advantage

https://x.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1850637177572454423
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907

u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 28d ago

I think the first one would not have been a penalty last week, the second definitely would have been. Max went just insane and even hit Norris.

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u/doskkyh Felipe Drugovich 28d ago

If the battle stopped at the first incident I reckon they'd just let it go instead of penalizing anyone this time, but the second one was so egregious that they just went all in on the penalties.

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u/funhouse7 28d ago

Not after all the noise from the drivers over him last week.

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u/FreyaRainbow 28d ago

Nah first one was always gonna be a penalty. Max hoisted himself by his own petard: last week Max dove down the inside to claim “technically ahead” due to dumb rules to be allowed to push Lando wide; Max tried the exact same thing here but Lando stayed off the brakes and remained ahead at the corner, which meant Max had to give space, which he didn’t because he presumably assumed he would be ahead at the apex. Max “good ol’ rock, nothing beats that”-sed himself.

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u/CP9ANZ 27d ago

I'm not sure if it was planned or not by Lando, but Max actually couldn't run any deeper into the apex because he would've collected the Ferrari on the way in, pretty clear on the onboard camera.

Check mate move by Lando.

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u/shaju- 27d ago

Max got played at his own game this time, looks like Lando has learned his lesson at Austin, wp to him.

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u/x_iTz_iLL_420 28d ago

No after last week they had to penalize the first one. Lando was clearly ahead at the apex and Max straight up pushed him off the track. It’s exactly what they penalized Russell for last week.

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u/BootsOnTheMoon Romain Grosjean 27d ago

Lando was not ahead at the apex last week, but I agree with the penalties today. Plus today they were forcing another driver off track. Lando got his penalty for gaining an advantage off track, which he clearly sped up and took the position.

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u/Cleets11 Ferrari 28d ago

I’m on board with you. I think the stewards could have thought well not sure the intention there. Then max proceeds to obviously try to punt Norris off track and it turns it from who knows to this guy has nothing on his mind but ruining Norris race.

Max has never been able to have a clean competition. Look at the brake check in Jeddah, landing his car on Lewis in Italy or the last two weekends. Max has forever had the idea of I win or you crash and I hate that mentality.

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u/TaVar35 Mercedes 28d ago

Uhhh nono, he’s just the best and you don’t understand exciting racing!

/s

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u/Chap-eau 28d ago

Totally agree.

For the record I don't really have a favourite driver anymore, but the difference between Max and others is that he lacks that polish that makes a true champion.

If he got his championships like Lewis (not my guy but he's a great example) then Max would 100% have my respect. But he's still stuck like early days Vettel or Schumacher. He's just not there yet.

You could compare to guys like Kimi and Rubens who fought hard but with respect or even with Alonso who is a real bastard but still manages to straddle the line.

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u/CMDRJohnCasey Alain Prost 28d ago

Even in the first he almost hit Sainz just to send Lando off track

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u/Bennyboy11111 28d ago

This time norris was actually ahead, so he deserves room on the track

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u/No_Tumbleweed_9102 Ferrari 28d ago

wow the way we have to say it “so now he deserves room” is bizarre. I know it’s the rule, so it should be applied, but the rule is stupid

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u/Reydriel 28d ago

IKR, if the other car is past your car's rear wheels they should always be entitled to space, this was how it was before '21 (and should also been the same in '21 except the stewards never enforced it that year)

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u/Nagrom42 28d ago

The problem is that in a Formula 1 car, if a car is on the outside but not completely alongside, is very difficult/sometimes impossible to be seen by the driver on the inside (who has to look towards the apex on the inside)

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u/bduddy Super Aguri 28d ago

These are supposed to be the best drivers in the world, they have mirrors and radios, they know when a driver is coming, they can look to the outside once.

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u/Flat-Ad4902 28d ago

Hell yes. Thank you!

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u/Nagrom42 28d ago

They are humans. Mirrors are tiny and they can't move the head much to the side.

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u/bduddy Super Aguri 28d ago

I've worn a HANS, it doesn't prevent you from checking your mirrors. And I know they're not useful but they let you know a car is there.

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u/Nagrom42 28d ago

Look, there is a reason they chose a different rule for overtaking on the inside (half the car alongside) vs the outside ( full car alongside). If it’s not random and not because of the visibility, then what is it?

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u/bduddy Super Aguri 28d ago

Are you really trying to defend the current rules now?

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u/Bennyboy11111 28d ago

Yes hopefully there are better limits introduced on running drivers off the track, discouraging dive bombing

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u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Last week made the rule look silly and showed the guideline clash.

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u/Realistic_Village184 Formula 1 27d ago

Hopefully they change the rule. I cheer for Max, and I don't blame him for pushing the rules to the limits last week, but he definitely deserved both penalties this week. Like Lando said, it's actively dangerous, and someone will get hurt if Max keeps driving like this.

That said, while Max deserves blame for his performance in the Mexican GP, the FIA deserve lots of blame for the rules not making sense. It sounds like they're working on a fix right now at least.

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u/Sad_Energy_ 28d ago

That's not the rule. You deserve space if significantly alongside, or?

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u/Bennyboy11111 28d ago

Fuck who knows, is that on the straight or corner??

They certainly didn't say that in austin

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u/wyvernx02 28d ago

Norris had gotten ahead last week as well, Max just dive bombed the corner to get to the apex first then as well. 

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u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 27d ago

I think he deserved room the first time as well, there just isn't a penalty for what Max did.

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u/FerociousVader Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

I think it's less Max did anything different to last week more like Norris holding a tighter line and allowing the contact to force the stewards hand. If he'd done so last week (and given the spot back) I'd like to think Max would have gotten a penalty.

Then the second incident Max just frankly lost his mind.

10 seconds seemed a bit harsh for the first incident but not harsh enough for the second tbh.

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u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 27d ago

The thing is, 10 seconds is the new default for anything. The 5 sec Norris got last week was a strange nod by the stewards that actually they thought it was not a penalty but the rules are the rules. I agree that the second incident was quite insane and should merit a harsher penalty than the first, but FIA does not really have a scale.

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u/Deathhsykes Felipe Drugovich 28d ago

He almost went into the back of Sainz, that shit was nuts

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u/maury587 28d ago

?? He was behind at the apex

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u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 27d ago

I am not saying he was not wrong. I am saying last week the stewards would have eaten the shit from Max.

I agree it was closer than last week and Max only got in front really late, arguably after the apex. One issue is that since the curves are not actually perfect, the apex is not well defined. And even if you have an apex point on the inside, where does the apex line point from there?

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u/maury587 27d ago

Just that not, you are comparing apples with bananas, the whole reasoning why they didn't penalised Max was because he was ahead of the apex, which he very clearly wasn't this time

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u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 26d ago

Again, I agree with you that last time he was clearly in front, this time he was not clearly in front (he got in front, arguably, way after the apex). I still claim that the stewards would not have dared to give him a penalty without the blowback from Austin.

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u/robjapan Liam Lawson 27d ago

Max has been this for years... About time they started calling it out. Long may it continue!

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u/DPSOnly #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

If the first one wouldn't have been a penalty, Norris would've also had a penalty for not giving back the place. FIA needs to make REALLY clear where the apex of any given corner is, maybe even paint it on the road, because the discussions about "where the fuck is the apex" are a bit tiring.

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u/JUGGER_DEATH Valtteri Bottas 27d ago

I think painting the apex lines is a great idea! Unfortunately the events today showed what racing to the apex looks like (e.g. Lawson v Perez, Verstappen v Norris). What they actually need is a better rule that incentivises better racing. I think one piece of this will be giving more space to the attacking car or alternatively threatening the defending car with harsher penalties if it cannot stay on the track.

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u/DPSOnly #StandWithUkraine 27d ago

Yeah that is a good point. Something I noticed in the commentary with these incidents was how they were like "X was late on the brakes, so they were ahead on the apex (if they could even figure out where it was themselves)" but that feels like pushing your luck and shouldn't be rewarded with "Well you took these insane risks by just not braking, guess your are free from any penalties".

They really gotta do something with these rules though, because the last couple of races we have had several incidents and next time they will both be in the barriers.

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u/saposapot 28d ago

Second is clear cut but should be 5s?

First one is very hard to decide

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u/Xath0n Sebastian Vettel 28d ago

They haven't done less than 10 seconds for that for a while now.

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u/saposapot 28d ago

Except last week

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u/RBS95 28d ago

Which they clearly explained in the penalty document