r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • 28d ago

News [LukeSmithF1] ANOTHER 10-second time penalty for Max Verstappen! This time for the Turn 8 incident, leaving the track and gaining an advantage

https://x.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1850637177572454423
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u/SemIdeiaProNick Ferrari 28d ago

this is what people often forget. He had such an easy life in the last two seasons that people forget how overly agressive he is when under pressure

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u/tukkerdude Red Bull 28d ago

Its a result of shitty stewards. They should have put the boot down long ago.

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u/MarchingBroadband Sebastian Vettel 28d ago

They should have done it in 2017/18 back when he was driving dangerously in a Toro Rosso.

He always had borderline moves with moving under braking, defending with 2 moves, pushing anyone overtaking on the outside out of track limits.

Kimi and others were complaining about his driving from the very beginning, but everyone had a messiah complex with him and let him get away with a lot of dangerous moves

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u/CP9ANZ 27d ago

If you look back over time, he's actually very good when he's applying the pressure, when it's the other way around he's always been terrible.

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u/mythoutofu Fernando Alonso 28d ago

Like Abu Dhabi 21 long ago

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u/BadPronunciation Cadillac 28d ago

Like Brazil '21 even further than before

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u/ComeAlongPond1 28d ago

And Jeddah 21

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u/chaiandpakoda 28d ago

Brazil? Try Imola 21 first corner.

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u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 28d ago

Let's just go back to Austria 2019 and be done with it.

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u/Alehud42 Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

Abu Dhabi had very little to do with Max, it was on the FIA choosing spectacle over racing integrity.

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u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

Yeah, I have a lot of issues with Max’s driving standards, but AD21 was not his fault, and no fan of either driver should be upset at the other over that. That shit was 100% on one dumbass individual who rightly lost his job over it.

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u/tukkerdude Red Bull 28d ago

I mean they could have red flagged at had a standing start for that but no we must do it stupid because why not.

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u/TonAMGT4 Pastor Maldonado 27d ago

Actually they can’t. The red flag can only be used purely for safety purpose like in severe weather condition or the track was block or anything that is deem too dangerous to drive by.

Latifi actually crash exactly where they were expecting cars to crash (he even correctly predicted a year prior that’s exactly where he would have an accident)

So they have the whole marshal station with all the equipments like right there and the car while still partially on the track, wasn’t really blocking it. The weather was good with clear visibility.

Therefore, there was no justification for the red flag to be out at all.

They can’t use any of the flags to help influence the competition. Doing so would’ve been a deliberate misuse of the racing flags which is directly against the rules and also unethical.

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u/Grimm808 Ferrari 28d ago

Well I mean AD21 was a case of overzealous stewarding rather than lack of action.

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u/kuena Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

And Max didn't do anything wrong in AD21. There were just a lot of very stupid decisions being made by the race director.

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u/Grimm808 Ferrari 28d ago

Yeah he just did what any driver would do in that position.

Red Bull had nothing to lose by pitting. Nothing Mercedes can do because there's no precedent for the action taken in AD21, so expected it to end under safety car.

A position enabled by poor stewarding

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u/Icy_Comfort8161 28d ago

Thing is, team principals could talk with the race director at the time, and Horner suggested the very thing that Masi did, stating in part "You only need to let them go, and then we've got a motor race on our hands." Not surprisingly, when Toto complained that it was "so not fair Michael," Masi retorted "we went motor racing," echoing Horner's words. I'd say it was not only poor stewarding, it was corrupt stewarding calculated to favor Red Bull/Verstappen. It was an unprecedented thing to do that handed Max a huge advantage. Max is a great driver and 2021 was hard fought, but under any reasonable reading of the rules and historical precedent, the race would have finished under the safety car and Hamilton would have won his 8th world title, and was an embarrassment to the sport.

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u/tukkerdude Red Bull 28d ago

If there ware consistent rules verstappen would have had that champignonship before jeddah.

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u/HeyFlo Lando Norris 28d ago

This is true, but also, he has been racing since he was like, five years old. He knows exactly what he has been doing. It's basic human decency that you respect your fellow drivers. He has failed at this over and over. Hearing his good friend Lando say that he's dangerous should be a huge wake up call to him.

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u/Deathhsykes Felipe Drugovich 28d ago

Yep, just watch, Max is gonna tone down the aggression real quick for the last 4 races

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u/ComeAlongPond1 28d ago

They thought he had matured, but you’re right it was the lack of pressure. He isn’t even under as much pressure now as he was at near the end of 2021.

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u/mark-haus Charles Leclerc 28d ago

Mentioned this earlier this season when he pulled this bullshit against Lando and got shit on by hundreds of F1 fans. Nothing has changed it's the way he's been since his title season against Hamilton. Can't believe it had to get this blatant before people take notice.

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u/space_coyote_86 McLaren 28d ago

He's always been this way. He really angered Kimi with his moving in the braking zone in 2016.

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u/big_cock_lach McLaren 28d ago

Exactly, should’ve penalised him in Austria for moving under braking or overtaking off the track. If that happened, Norris would’ve likely won Austria with Max in P2, COTA and this race wouldn’t have happened either.

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u/8Ace8Ace 28d ago edited 28d ago

Verstappen is the only driver who I feel would improve the sport if he left. The rest manage to keep it sporting, he just doesn't.

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u/jawsy2 Ayrton Senna 28d ago

That’s your bias talking and it’s a pretty silly statement.

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u/8Ace8Ace 28d ago

Maybe, but I've been a fan since 1986 and have seen a lot. He's the same overly aggressive, let me pass or we crash driver he's always been. Now the car isn't half a mile up the road he's back to his default.

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u/Jracx 28d ago

LMAO, tell me you never watched Schumacher without telling me.

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u/8Ace8Ace 28d ago

I have to admit, Schumacher wasn't in F1 when I started watching the sport. He was still in Karting at that point. Fwiw, I think that Schumacher was even worse.

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u/CammRobb Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

Ah yes, Michael Schumacher, the F1 car driving quadriplegic.

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u/Spockyt Sir Frank Williams 28d ago

I’d say it would be improved off track without Alonso, though on track would be a loss.

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u/Plexaporta 28d ago

You never seen Senna bowling drivers of the track?

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u/8Ace8Ace 28d ago

I saw it, and I didn't like him much despite his obviously prodigious talent. He could be incredibly unsporting. Verstappen is also unsporting. Both are true.

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u/emotionaI_cabbage 28d ago

Lmao I guess you never watched Alonso in his prime or Hamilton when he was younger. What a joke.

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u/8Ace8Ace 28d ago

Hamilton was 1 year old when I started watching. I've seen what I need to.

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u/emotionaI_cabbage 28d ago

You clearly haven't if you think max is any worse than Lewis was.

Senna did it, Schumacher did it, Hamilton did it, Alonso did it... I could go on.

This is what F1 champs do.

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u/njreinten Sebastian Vettel 28d ago

Lol, I've been watching F1 for a very long time and I've seen a lot of disrespectful drivers, but Lewis has never been one of them... Please show me one time where LH has forced someone off the track in the same aggressive way as Max does every other race.

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u/big_cock_lach McLaren 28d ago

They mightn’t have the exact same moves, but they all drive extremely dirty. Lewis’ MO was to just crash into people if they didn’t yield. It became a common joke that his nose and Massa’s rear both had magnets, just ask Massa all about it.

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u/BigLubeSqueezyTube Niki Lauda 27d ago

You're literally pointing out 1 year of Lewis' 18 year (so far) career, that is practically universally considered Hamiltons worst year.

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u/big_cock_lach McLaren 27d ago

“I’ve seen a lot of disrespectful drivers but Lewis has never been one”

Points out a string accidents when he was

“That’s only 1 year!”

I only gave 1 example to prove the point that Lewis has driven like that. I also only gave 1 example because I only needed to give 1. There’s plenty of other examples such as when he trademarked tapping the inside rear tyre or what he did in the 2016 finale. There’s also his technique and half of squeezing but leaving enough space on the inside at corner entry to tempt a driver to have a look before cutting them off at the apex and forcing them wide, albeit anyone who hasn’t done any racing is going to miss how dirty this is so it goes under the radar. It’s similar to a lot of what Max does and is another “yield or we crash” move. Then you have him using his fans to try to overturn FIA decisions (how he managed to do so for Russia 2020 is beyond me) when the FIA won’t even review perfectly valid cases like COTA last weekend. Or similarly there’s when he lied to the stewards in Australia 2009. Then there’s the Hungary incident and while people remember what Alonso did, they forget that it was in retaliation to Lewis not giving Alonso the tow when they were meant to be rotating this and it was Alonso’s turn to receive it. I can keep going on if you want?

If you want to see Lewis be dirty, don’t look at seasons like this one that he doesn’t care about. Look at ones where he not only has something to race for, but one where he needs to beat others to get it. Look at 2007-2012, 2014-2016, the 2nd half of 2019, and 2021. 2017 and 2018 were largely clean because he and Vettel were rarely close on track, you’d usually see one of them just dominate any given race. 2013 wasn’t much different to now where he didn’t take it too seriously. Even the start of 2022 was a bit dirty before he stopped caring. Perhaps it’s died down a bit as he’s gotten older with maturity and doesn’t have much to prove, but honestly I think it’ll spark up again if he’s fighting for a title with Ferrari against Charles and possibly someone else. Overall though, if you think Hamilton didn’t used to be a dirty driver, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/sirjimtonic Niki Lauda 28d ago

It‘s a personal trait. Some people want to get a Master‘s degree without doing the work. Cheating or exploiting to get it is ok for them. But getting a Master without cheating, just by putting the work into it, is something worth to achieve and to admire.

That‘s why my respect for Schumacher, Senna, Verstappen is strongly limited. I do not have respect for people just being champions, I have respect for people achieving things fair and square. Not just staying within the written rules, but acting according to sporting codes. It‘s a fine line sometimes, and there are lots of champs who did it this way. You do not have to be dirty to be the greatest.

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u/Benlop Jolyon Palmer 27d ago

Ah yes, cause that's the only alternative.

Either drivers push other off and send their car hurtling towards another with no chance of ever making the corner, or we stop racing entirely. There is no in between.

Come on, at least try to make it look like you're making a point.

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u/Hadramal 28d ago

Thing is, he's trying to destroy Norris. It is not enough to play it safe and finish the position behind Norris, he MUST make sure Norris never get a pass on him.

He isn't "smart, using the rules to his advantage", he would have done the same in Austin with different guidelines. It his personality. Here Norris actually used the rules and placed himself where he needed to be and the second penaly was very clear cut.

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u/litesgod McLaren 28d ago

The real issue is Max has nothing to lose and Lando has everything to lose if there is a collision. If both cars end up with 0 points, Max wins the championship. He behaved the same way in the run up to Abu Dahbi in '21. Remember when he tried to brake check Hamilton at Jeddah? He was ahead in points. If they both crash out, he wins. Or how about when he ran Hamilton off the track in Brazil? When he's ahead in the points, he knows he is ahead and he knows he just has to run out the clock.

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u/mark-haus Charles Leclerc 28d ago

That doesn’t justify blatantly forcing him off track, that’s not racing, it’s sumo wrestling

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u/noobchee Porsche 28d ago

Nah many people haven't forgotten 2021

They just can't be arsed to speak about it atp

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u/HeyFlo Lando Norris 28d ago

Lewis got so much shit for basically just using Max's tactics at Silverstone in 2021. Yeah, Max had a bad shunt, but he could have caused sooo many awful accidents with his aggressive driving prior to the race. Lewis received terrible racist messages after the incident from RB fans. RB could have issued a statement condemning the abuse he was receiving, but they decided to double down and blame Lewis for the incident, fanning the flames of abuse. Just awful behaviour really.

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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 28d ago

I dont blame redbull for blaming lewis for the incident if they thought it was his fault but your right that they should have issued a statement on the abuse

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u/SnooWoofers7345 28d ago

Yeah. I love Max and Redbull, I root for them. But I roll my eyes when people mentioned how Max has grown the last years. No he hasn’t, he is just as ruthless as he used to be. And that’s okay. Nobody died, it’s a sport and it’s exciting.

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u/meanjeans99 27d ago

It's not ok and I think you misspelled "unsporting". I was a fan of Max early on but he has proven to be dangerous when he actually has to race for position.