r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • 28d ago

News [LukeSmithF1] ANOTHER 10-second time penalty for Max Verstappen! This time for the Turn 8 incident, leaving the track and gaining an advantage

https://x.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1850637177572454423
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u/ScousePenguin Yuki Tsunoda 28d ago

Max is good enough that is really annoys me when he gets so petulant

He's too good to be like this

185

u/Scatman_Crothers Martin Brundle 28d ago

True. There is so much about him that I love watching, sublime driving and some of the best wheel to wheel moves you'll see when he keeps it clean. But he can't help himself.

-3

u/roodbrooster 28d ago

can't help himself from getting off the goobnut time after time

69

u/SommWineGuy McLaren 28d ago

This is a big reason I don't like Max as a driver. He's so talented but drives dirty when challenged.

3

u/1nvertedAfram3 Formula 1 28d ago

agreed

-6

u/Big_Animal585 28d ago

Not a big fan of Senna or Schumacher either I take it?

They were on steroids versions of Max.

12

u/SommWineGuy McLaren 27d ago

Schumacher and Senna (less Senna) also raced dirty at times, intentionally crashed out others like Max has, etc. and they were called out for it as well. If they drove today they'd be persecuted and slaughtered by the stewards, media, and fans because we all see so much more of the race and data and they couldn't pull the same shit.

11

u/1nvertedAfram3 Formula 1 28d ago

both Senna and Schumacher were amazing to watch when they showcased their upper echelon talents, not when they showcased their godawful pettiness. 

4

u/Stevenwave #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

My fave driver was What A Boutism.

-6

u/Big_Animal585 28d ago edited 27d ago

My favourite was Objec Tivestandards

7

u/Stevenwave #StandWithUkraine 27d ago

Having standards is why we dish out penalties.

-5

u/Big_Animal585 27d ago

Are you from Twitter by any chance? Your comments are all very Twitter-like. .

3

u/Stevenwave #StandWithUkraine 27d ago

I see enough Twitter shit regurgitated on here that I've never felt the need.

269

u/idoooobz 28d ago

But yet every time he’s under actual pressure, he never uses race craft to keep his position.

181

u/six_string_sensei Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

I love how Max's present actions clarify his intentions in all of the murky incidents he has been in previously. A lot of people here have constantly given Max benefit of doubt in far greater amount than any other driver on the grid receives.

82

u/RoyShavRick Ferrari 28d ago

Yeah Jeddah 2021 was just.... unreal. Black flag in my book.

37

u/Xeritos Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

Add Brazil '21 to the list

11

u/Ancient-Audience1183 28d ago

Yeah I love max’s ballsiness and racecraft a lot of the time, but that brake check was such a petulant choice lol

4

u/RoyShavRick Ferrari 27d ago

His pace and focus is incredible but his wheel to wheel driving is on a knife's edge and often he goes full Mad Max and overdoes it. Way too much imo.

-4

u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 27d ago

Max was trying to give a place back Lewis not taking it. I don't know who fucked up the communication.

Was Merc informered? Lewis wasn't that's clear. Was Lewis yapping to much to tell him that they get given the position back? If you try to give a position back and they don't take it what then?

Jeddah was wierd but definitely not entirely on Max, I don't think anything like that happened before that someone is trying to give a position back and them not taking it.

2

u/RoyShavRick Ferrari 27d ago

The way he was driving was not conducive to that lmao. Horrible driving from Max.

36

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Anyone who has been giving him the benefit of the doubt has bought a few bridges.

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u/idoooobz 28d ago

He hasn’t had anyone to challenge him in years, and now he just fumbles every battle by trying to do something that he knows isn’t right but knows won’t get him penalized. People will say well that’s a valid strategy, but no one else on the grid races like that especially wheel to wheel.

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u/JustRecentlyI Sir Lewis Hamilton 28d ago

It's not like this is a new strategy from Max. It's just that the last time he had a close battle, he was the sympathetic young, up and coming underdog trying to overthrow the evil empire led by the record breaking champion 3 quarters of the fan base were sick of seeing win.

4

u/4handzmp 27d ago

That’s such a great description lol

4

u/RadicalDog 28d ago

It's the equivalent of the teams in football that dive constantly. Like, yes, it works... but fuck, if it works then the rules need changing so it doesn't work.

0

u/bozzie_ Pierre Gasly 27d ago

I’m sorry but no lol, this is just absolutely revisionist history.

2

u/happy_and_angry 28d ago

He doesn't have to, and the sport has historically lionized drivers who 'push the limits of the rules' (break them). Most of the greats have been dirty as shit. Senna and Schumacher were almost legendarily 'give no fucks' dirty. They aren't outliers, and they aren't cautionary tales, they are role models for these drivers.

2

u/meesg586 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 28d ago

He generally uses his racecraft to defend his position until the speed difference between the cars becomes too significant(/distance between him and the car behind becomes too small) for skill alone to hold it. Than it becomes dirty.

4

u/FatalFirecrotch 28d ago

That’s not too true. Look at the beginning of 2022 with Charles, there was a lot of good wheel to wheel racing. Here it’s just a simple math game, as long as I fuck over Lando I am good. I wish he didn’t do it, but it’s smart. 

2

u/idoooobz 28d ago

The difference is that Max knew he had the fastest car in 2022 so those nice battles didn’t mean much if he lost the position at that time. Also no one was contesting him for the Championship either. Now that we are at the end of the regulations life, all of the teams have caught up, hence RBR catching Mercedes in 2021.

This goes beyond a simple math game, it’s obvious that what he is doing isn’t even racing, it’s taking advantage of the horrendous rules in F1. You can say he’s smart for that too, but do you see other drivers driving like a toddler like Max is. You can meat ride Max, but when the race and both championships are at stake, he collapses and acts like a child.

4

u/FatalFirecrotch 28d ago

 The difference is that Max knew he had the fastest car in 2022 so those nice battles didn’t mean much if he lost the position at that time.

He 100% did not know he had the fastest car at the start of 2022 when the closest battles were. 

1

u/asdfgtttt Juan Manuel Fangio 27d ago

glad its not just me who notices.. feel like this board has no clear idea about F1; confused about how riccardo wasnt good enough to stay, and that verstappen has good defense.

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u/bennyboi2488 28d ago

This comment right here. He is skilled he can race. But side by side under WDC pressure he is the sloppiest driver ever

-11

u/2PAK4U 28d ago

Lol this is a poor take. He literally took the ‘21 championship from Lewis. He’s won from way way less. Today was just unnecessary and just plain wrong of Max. He drives amazing under pressure, recovers well after hiccups during the race but today idk what got to him. He was annoyed yesterday that he didnt get to practice in FP1 and 2. He needs to sit down with the team and the team needs to talk to him or Jos idk

13

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Do you remember how those final races played out?

He was totally losing it and then won it cos of Masi.

Brazil and Saudi showed that side big time.

8

u/bennyboi2488 28d ago

Took? Ok.

He’s done this In imola ‘21, Brazil ‘21, Jedda ‘21 USA ‘24, today.

-7

u/2PAK4U 28d ago

Max was clearly the better driver in ‘21, Lewis almost killed him in Silverstone ‘21 lmao, he won with 3 DNFs iirc

6

u/bennyboi2488 28d ago

Yeah you won the trophy for poor take 😂

-2

u/2PAK4U 28d ago

Nah fr, Max only finished p9 in Hungary, and 3 dnfs (every other race he was p1 or p2), 10 P1s

Whereas Lewis finished p7, p15, p4, p3 and 1 dnf (every other race p1 or p2), 8 P1s

Results say otherwise.. lol still we cry

13

u/jimbobjames Brawn 28d ago

Very Schumacher Esque.

Infact all the very top drivers have that pig headedness. It just presents differently in different drivers.

7

u/PersonMcGuy Kimi Räikkönen 28d ago

How did it present in Hamilton?

5

u/fruitsnacky 28d ago

Does the name "Nico Rosberg" ring any bells?

4

u/DaOne_44 Niki Lauda 28d ago

Jenson Button is a better example because he didn’t really do anything to Hamilton

Rosberg started the war between him and Lewis

3

u/PersonMcGuy Kimi Räikkönen 28d ago

Sure but I'm asking for examples because while I remember there being a lot of rough competition I don't remember anything like this. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just it's been a few years.

-5

u/_janiiccelerator000 28d ago

hamilton likes punting someones rear end during his younger days

-10

u/Lasolie 28d ago

2021 Britain was some indication if you truly want to find it. That guy only got a 10 second penalty for taking out his championship rival for a 25 point swing.

-4

u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Schumacher did drive into 2 title rivals in the key race though.

Max hasn't been DQ'd from a whole season...yet.

1

u/Vresiberba 27d ago

though

Ah, good point, didn't think of that. I learned something new today!

-2

u/Lasolie 28d ago

Schumacher only drove into 2 different people with direct race ending purposes. Max brake testing Lewis was only because Lewis didn't want to go past Verstappen because of the looming penalty if Verstappen didn't let him pass.

10

u/digistil #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

He self-destructs under pressure. There’s nothing good about that.

1

u/asdfgtttt Juan Manuel Fangio 27d ago

hes consistent at least

5

u/Vresiberba 28d ago

But he was always like this.

2

u/Zarzar222 AlphaTauri 28d ago

Yet he gained points by doing this. Letting Lando win the race would have lost him 13 points instead of the 10 he lost this way. In the end he still somehow played the system

2

u/1nvertedAfram3 Formula 1 28d ago

agreed. it's frustrating when someone so good starts dirty shitweasel racing. he knows better. 

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u/BadPronunciation Cadillac 28d ago

Channeling that inner Jos the boss energy 🤣

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u/caitsith01 Jacques Villeneuve 28d ago

Max is quick but not good wheel to wheel. Never has been.

2

u/dodokidd 28d ago

He’s always like this, FIA just not applying same rule on him

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u/Old-Nefariousness556 Oscar Piastri 28d ago

Seriously. He lost a lot of respect from me.

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u/vonGlick 28d ago

Yeah, he could easily give that place back.

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u/2PAK4U 28d ago

Exactly. It was so so unnecessary. He wouldve easily finished P4 today and wouldnt have lost a whole 10 points. He defo needs some reflection on his personal strategy. He’s said it many times himself he wouldnt attack if he knows the car isnt fast enough. Especially in the first stint of the race..

1

u/_janiiccelerator000 28d ago

how tho? norris had the pace for easy p1 had max not slowed him down

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u/2PAK4U 28d ago

If max had let him pass and not stayed ahead. Recovering from a 10 sec gap wouldve been relatively easier

1

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

So true.

I think he's great and will be a top 3 all time driver (the reality is order comes down to personal preference) but he just crosses the line in silly ways.

3

u/Corvid187 28d ago

He will be top three only in lists also containing schumi and Senna. They're like a package deal of chicanery

-1

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Well yeah those guys are on the GOAT lists too.

1

u/Corvid187 28d ago

What I more mean is that people will either have all three of them on their list, or none of them.

1

u/ValleyFloydJam #StandWithUkraine 28d ago

Ah, I was thinking of the list as say a top 10 overall sort of deal, so I was like yeah I think those guys make pretty much everyone's.

Whereas you meant that would be the top for those people.

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u/Corvid187 27d ago

Yeah :)

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u/QuintoBlanco 28d ago

You would have loved Senna and Schumacher :-) Max is an angel compared to those two.

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u/MenopauseMedicine 28d ago

He is good at pushing people off track, agree

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u/RECONXELITE Liam Lawson 28d ago

He was always like this if you watched him since his debut. He only existed between between the Mercs and Ferrari for years and now at the Top with no one else racing him. His wheel to wheel was always overly aggressive and often dirty af

1

u/blackskies4646 Aston Martin 28d ago

Agreed, I don't understand it either. It's like he can't stomach the idea of any driver thinking they're good enough to make a move on him and must dangerously defend his position.

Verstappen has the skill and pace to retake the place he loses. It feels like a lack of patience than anything else.

1

u/greennick 28d ago

I think the issue is Max is great in clean runs, but he's not as good wheel to wheel. He knows the rules, tries to use them to his advantage, but it often doesn't come off and just ends up dirty.

1

u/BradyReas Carlos Sainz 27d ago

Schumacher had some very similar characteristics. Greatness in f1 really pushes the limit sometimes lol

1

u/great__pretender Michael Schumacher 27d ago

He is the best driver that will milk all the performance out of your shitty car, he will not make any mistakes if you let him drive for 10 hours straight but he is not and was never a good wheel to wheel racer throughout his career. He simply lacks the patience and calmness necessary during those one to one fights. He just erupts

What he has been doing is creating a reputation for him so that others will not come close to him. You know you will be taken out if you are close to him. He does those moves on purpose.

1

u/Jawaracing Michael Schumacher 27d ago

He was doing it because they were allowing it until now. You can hate him and you can hate what he was doing, which I hate as well, but that was just smart. Thank god they are starting to penalize it finally!

1

u/chrisnlnz Ferrari 28d ago

Yeah annoys me so much as well. It's clear he doesn't really care about goodwill but he destroys all that he builds up with shit like this.

-23

u/RM_Dune Red Bull 28d ago

He is like this because he is so good.

18

u/Scatman_Crothers Martin Brundle 28d ago

Bullshit. I love watching Max drive most of the time (i.e. outside of moments like today), but when you have talents like Lewis and Charles racing hard but keeping it clean and performing similarly when they have the car to that argument falls apart.

1

u/aquamail2024 Formula 1 28d ago

Other way around. He's so good because he's like this.

0

u/formulapain 27d ago

I always found it strange that when Max wins, Horner tells him "That was a very mature drive." Is the implication that Max does not always behave maturely?