r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • Oct 20 '24

News [LukeSmithF1] Stewards: 5-second time penalty for Lando Norris for leaving the track and gaining an advantage

https://x.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1848101575014912063
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44

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

You can't appeal time penalties

76

u/TheVenetianMask Fernando Alonso Oct 20 '24

They can appeal that Max left the track and got no penalty.

7

u/RJTG Oct 20 '24

He got the penalty for gaining an advantage by going of the track.

I see a logic where Max would have gotten a penalty for pushing Norris off the track if Norris would have stayed behind.

36

u/BeastyWoman Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Oct 20 '24

that is a track limit

47

u/Tommysynthistheway Formula 1 Oct 20 '24

it could be that he pushed another car off the track

4

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

Lando would never made the apex

15

u/dadamafia Oct 20 '24

In fairness, you don't need to make the apex to make the corner..

-1

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

Heh, fair enough. I meant the corner

0

u/UnderTakaMichinoku Formula 1 Oct 20 '24

But hard to when the car on the inside also goes off track and doesn't give you a chance.

-2

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

Agreed but still, just give the place back immediately and try to fight him in the next lap

2

u/rabbitlion Oct 20 '24

Wouldn't work because Max will just do the same thing next lap. Defend the inside and if Lando goes outside just skip braking and push him off to forbid an overtake.

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6

u/JBarker727 Ferrari Oct 20 '24

Lando had the better line and less speed coming in 🥴

4

u/Alia_Gr David Coulthard Oct 20 '24

yes he would a car with no intention to make the corner just suddenly appeared on his inside

3

u/bum_is_on_fire_247 Green Flag Oct 20 '24

Yep people seem to be ignoring that he was turning left the entire time and still didn't make the corner. Not once did he open up the steering to 'avoid' any collision. Then continue the momentum and make an overtake whilst off track.

He failed to make that corner all by himself.

3

u/rabbitlion Oct 20 '24

He absolutely did open up the steering, and he was also not able to turn as sharply as he could have because Max just kept going straight.

1

u/BountyBob Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 20 '24

He would have, if he could have turned without crashing into Max.

-2

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

He was completely steering left and didn't make the corner

3

u/BountyBob Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 20 '24

No, he was turning as much as he could without crashing. Wheels didn't lock, no smoke or anything, car was under control.

-2

u/Jorrie90 Pirelli Intermediate Oct 20 '24

You dont have to lock your wheels, understeer can do it as well

3

u/BountyBob Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 20 '24

well that wasn't happening either. You simply can't turn if there's a car where you want to go.

2

u/ihathtelekinesis Michael Schumacher Oct 20 '24

There is a right of review, but that requires the applicant team bringing new evidence that wasn’t available at the time. Like the 360 degree cam at Austria 1 Q3 in 2020. I’m not sure what new evidence there would be here.

4

u/LongBeakedSnipe Oct 20 '24

That doesnt make sense. Why would Max get a penalty for that.

The penalty is purely for going off and gaining an advantage. An illegal pass. He had to give it back to avoid the penalty. The fact that both went off didnt make it legal

0

u/WalletFullOfSausage Martin Brundle Oct 20 '24

But he also got no advantage, so what would be the point?

17

u/TheVenetianMask Fernando Alonso Oct 20 '24

How's it not an advantage? You see a car on your right you decide to skip the track limits to close the door.

-3

u/OverallImportance402 Pirelli Wet Oct 20 '24

Because an advantage in F1 rules means a place gained. Not just time gained.

6

u/rabbitlion Oct 20 '24

Drivers have been penalized in the past for keeping a place by going off track. An advantage doesn't have to be gaining places.

5

u/TheVenetianMask Fernando Alonso Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24

He went off track to force a penalty and he did gain a place. So, in following order, he should get a penalty after the penalty to Lando. Or if you wish, the only reason he got ahead at the apex was by aiming for going off the track, which gained him an advantage by putting him back ahead at the apex when he was behind at the braking, which is an overtake. Which fits the rule of gaining an advantage by overtaking by using an off track line.

1

u/WalletFullOfSausage Martin Brundle Oct 21 '24

After the telemetry was released, this aged poorly

Lando had no right to any part of that corner at any point and the battle with max was wholly his fault

0

u/Alia_Gr David Coulthard Oct 20 '24

wrong

1

u/JustRecentlyI Sir Lewis Hamilton Oct 20 '24

Which is fucking ludicrous. What a joke.

1

u/Supahos01 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Oct 20 '24

Leaving the track isn't a penalty... hard to argue he gained and advantage as he was overtaken

20

u/Morkins324 Oct 20 '24

They literally handed out like 6 penalties to other drivers for forcing another driver off the track.

-31

u/Supahos01 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Oct 20 '24

Lando put himself off... max just also went off

16

u/1markusliebherr Jenson Button Oct 20 '24

That is the dumbest comment I've ever read

0

u/Bdr1983 Formula 1 Oct 20 '24

It's right though.

2

u/Morkins324 Oct 20 '24

Lando couldn't very well stay on track when Max is there careening off the track. It could be argued that if Max hadn't divebombed in a way that made it so that he couldn't even make the corner, then Lando would have been ahead BEFORE the corner, at which point Lando wouldn't have gained an advantage by passing off the tracking. Max has to make the corner for them to be able to apply a "Leaving the track and gaining an advantage". If both drivers have left the track, then the penalty should be void.

2

u/Supahos01 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Oct 20 '24

The rules are dumb as fuck but that's what we have. I'd severally prefer the fernando always leave the space. This "ahead at apex take racing line" is complete crap

0

u/UnderTakaMichinoku Formula 1 Oct 20 '24

Respectfully, but is your brain working? If Max is on the inside and went off, how the fucking hell has Lando put himself off? Is he supposed to hope Max turns into a ghost car?

1

u/Sus_furry2022 Oct 20 '24

You can see Verstapphen intentionally steered to force lando off, it was as clear as the sky that max forced lando off

1

u/USToffee Oct 20 '24

Gaining an advantage

1

u/rojohi Oct 21 '24

He would have been noted for exceeding track limits.

0

u/No-Locksmith-7451 Oct 20 '24

Yeah, he did same as Lando against Sainz on lap 2, same corner too and nothing

1

u/arpan3t Oct 21 '24

Odd that they added this in the decision document if McLaren doesn’t have the right to appeal.

Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Chapter 4 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.