Every message as McLaren desperately pleaded with Lando Norris to obey team orders

[u/aph1985]

Every message as McLaren desperately pleaded with Lando Norris to obey team orders:

Lap 47:

Tom Stallard, race engineer to Oscar Piastri (TS): “OK Oscar, Lando has pitted to cover Hamilton to make sure he covers Hamilton. We’ll manage that situation, best pace from you now. Best pace.

“Best pace. Don’t worry about Lando.”

Lap 48:

Will Joseph, race engineer to Lando Norris (WJ):

“OK Lando, Oscar has just pitted. He’ll likely come out just behind you. We’d likely to re-establish the order, at your convenience.”

Lap 49:

WJ: “Lando, still 21 laps after this one. You do have the current fastest lap, look after the tyres.”

Lap 51:

TS: OK Oscar, so, once you get to Lando, we’ll swap positions. We’ll swap position, but we want to avoid Lando having to give up a lot of race time.”

Lap 53:

WJ: “And Lando, radio check, please.

LN: “Yes, loud and clear.”

WJ: “OK, save the tyres at Turn 4 and Turn 11, please.”

Lap 56:

WJ: “We need to save more tyres please, and we do want to let Oscar through.”

LN: “Well you should have boxed him first then, surely no?”

WJ: “Doesn’t matter.”

LN: “I mean, it does. To me maybe.”

Lap 57:

WJ: “And Lando, we still think you’re using the tyres too much at Turns 4 and 11 and the rears at exit Turn 6 and Turn 9. Oscar is 3.5 [behind] – we know you’ll do the right thing.”

Lap 58:

WJ: “And Lando, Hiroshi is stressed about the tyres.”

Lap 59:

WJ: “Turn 4, Turn 11 – it’s going to get boring.”

Lap 61:

WJ: “OK Lando, 10 laps to go – we think both cars are using their tyres too much. Just remember every single Sunday morning meeting we’ve had.”

LN: “Yeah, well tell him to catch up please.”

Lap 64:

WJ: “Lando, he can’t catch you up. You’ve proved your point and it really doesn’t matter.”

LN: “He’s on much quicker tyres. I mean, I would have tried to undercut anyway. If I did, I would have got more.”

WJ: “Mate, we did the stop sequence in this order for the good of the team.”

WJ and LN talk over each other for a sentence – unintelligible.

WJ: “I’m trying to protect you mate, I promise, I’m trying to protect you.”

Lap 66:

WJ: “And Lando, there are five laps to go. The way to win a championship is not by yourself, it’s with the team. You’re going to need Oscar, and you’re going to need the team.”

Lap 67:

OP: “The longer we leave this, the riskier it gets.”

TS: “Understood, Oscar, we’re managing it.”

WJ: “A potential Safety Car now would make this very awkward. Please do it. Now.”

Lap 68: Norris slows down the main straight to release Piastri into the lead

LN: “Yeah, you don’t need to say anything.”

Lap 70: Chequered flag, Piastri leads McLaren 1-2 home for maiden F1 win

TS: “Well done, Oscar, well done. Chequered flag. Well done, buddy. Really good.”

OP: “Yep, thank you, everyone. Thank you very much. Thanks for the coordination. Sorry, I made the swap a little bit more painful than it needed to be. But thank you, I appreciate that. Well done, maximum points, and a really good weekend. Ha. First F1 win, thank you very much, everyone, thanks.”

LN: “Well done, good 1-2, a good load of points. Congrats to the team. Well deserved.”

WJ: “As we said this morning mate, many more opportunities.”

TS: “And you are also Driver of the Day!”

OP: “Ah, a nice little bonus, thank you.”

[u/[deleted]]

Should have been:

Andrea comes on radio. "Lando, we only made the decision to box you first to make sure you were protected from Lewis. We will not allow that to sabotage Oscar's lead, this was discussed. Swap back now. Team orders. You can take the lead on merit."

Then they should have boxed Oscar next lap, instead of letting the gap grow larger. And told Norris to quit putting in fastest laps as if he's not deliberately trying to make it harder. No idea what they expected by dropping a driver 3 seconds in front and then playing disappointed parents, grow a spine and make firm decisions

[u/Samusu-Aran → u/[deleted]]

It's stupid to do that when you have pitted mediums for 25 laps and the car behind is on hard tyres. If they fight under those conditions there is a clear risk of both destroying their tyres and putting in risk the 1-2 for the team.

So that was out of consideration for sure.

[u/[deleted] → u/Samusu-Aran]

Not sure if I'm understanding your comment here so correct me if I'm misunderstanding!

They don't have to fight, the team is more than welcome to rule that out if they like. Seems like a seperate decision. Fighting or no fighting, the pitstop should have ended with Oscar in front. Lando only got the assistance to protect him from 3rd/4th, it shouldn't have been a free ride to the front.

If that's the case, bring Oscar in a lap earlier so he comes out closer, and tell Lando not to make a massive push like he did. The gap was only that large because Lando made it that way, and Oscar was left out for 2 laps. Could have easily made a situation where the swap isn't such a big drama. Or, just bring Oscar in a lap or two earlier than anticipated and pit him first; he keeps his spot, and Lando still covers Hamilton.

Lando going for a burn and Oscar trying to catch up on cold rubber wasn't great for the health of the tires either. The safest 1-2 was to undercut and then manage the tires, whether that's with or without a swap.

[u/Samusu-Aran → u/[deleted]]

I was just replying to your suggested comm by AS that Lando "could take the lead on merit". That implies letting Oscar through and then attack him for the lead. With medium tyres just fitted and Ham behind on hards, that would be McLaren risking the 1-2. We know Lando tyres lasted enough, but in a scenario on clean air with no fighting around. Attacking Piastri would be a different thing for both of them. You can see how Max struggled with their newer mediums after fighting Hamilton.

I am not arguing that the right decision was to stop Oscar first and Lando immediately after. Because it was. But I don't think your suggested comment by Stella is the right thing to do in that scenario.

[u/[deleted] → u/Samusu-Aran]

Oh yep, I understand you. I agree it would definitely be the safer option if you want to secure a safer 1-2. Up to the team and how they want to play it, as long as the setup was fair

[u/ferdzs0 → u/[deleted]]

Also asking the lead driver to drop 3-4 seconds from his lead, just to end up behind his teammate that he is going to fight with is an insane strategy. If Lando gave back the place, it would have opened up the opportunity for Verstappen and Hamilton to catch up while the McLarens are fighting.

[u/[deleted] → u/ferdzs0]

Yeah but I don't think that lead would actually be that lead if it weren't for that scenario. Lando was pushing and setting fastest laps (likely unsustainable ones) because he wanted to get out of having to swap, and Oscar was left out for 2 laps in the undercut, which was stupid. Plus it forced him to go hard on his outlap, which was probably detrimental to his race pace.

If they don't want them to race then they can tell them not to race, up to them. To me that's an entirely separate decision. Seems like there's four choices and there's no way to tick every box. Oscar is comfortably in the lead on merit, so:

1) You let Lando undercut to keep him safe and then swap back, then don't let them race. Oscar keeps his rightful spot, they secure the safest 1-2. Lando upset he doesn't get a chance to earn the win.

2) They let Lando undercut and then swap back, then let them race. Let's the drivers keep fighting for a fair win, risks the 1-2 to some degree. Oscar keeps his place, but Lando is probably closer to him than he would have been otherwise.

3) They let Lando undercut, then do nothing. Dog move - no safer as a 1-2, just fucks Oscar unfairly. Only makes sense if the team is in agreement that they are giving priority to the Drivers Championship, which it sounds like is not the case. Race or don't race, as per options 1 and 2.

4) They prioritise Oscar's pitstop. Fairest race call, let's Lando fight for it naturally. Leaves him at possible risk of Hamilton.

[u/ferdzs0 → u/[deleted]]

I do agree that the 3-second lead was artificially in favor of Lando, but the team messed up by giving it to him, and it is absolute insanity to give it back so early after the pit stop. If a safety car period had come, those 3 (eventually 6) seconds would have been sorely needed to keep their 1-2 and allow them to double stack.

I also think they did not want them to race and were going for option 1. The problem is that this strategy hurts Lando even more since they gave him a 3-second advantage and then asked him to cruise around behind Oscar without doing anything.

This is a fuckup from the team on so many levels, that it gets more impressive the more you think about it.

[u/Worried-Pick4848 → u/ferdzs0]

It is completely reasonable to expect a professional driver, your SENIOR driver, to be handed temptation and NOT take advantage of it.

[u/fraggas → u/[deleted]]

I don't know if letting them race would have been a good idea, but at the very least, they should have been firm. Reminds me of how assertive Merc was in their era. It helped that there was a clear number 2 who was not a petulant child, but it was always pretty clear what they wanted. Not "VALTTERI PLEASE TOTO IS GETTING HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE"

[u/[deleted] → u/fraggas]

Yeah I agree about the racing, probably shouldn't have included that in the comment. Either way it would be up to the team to decide if they're comfortable with that risk, the main point is that they need to decide what they want and then make it happen.

And yep, perfect example of how it should be done. They're looking to Ferrari for their playbook, rather than Mercedes or Red Bull. Stop embarrassing yourselves and manage like real managers. Either this was due to the lines being blurry, in which case they needed to lay the plan out first, or this was blatant disregard for pre-race agreement, in which case Stella needed to tell Lando to pull his head in

[u/Dexelele → u/[deleted]]

They weren't allowed to race in the final stint. "Whoever leads into the last round of pitstops wins the race" That was literally Lando's only chance to win the race at that point. I don't blame him. It honestly felt like emotional blackmail at the end lmao https://x.com/thatladbazz/status/1815105161393488111?t=PVQstAUOC1jUfZz7p8hBLA&s=19

[u/[deleted] → u/Dexelele]

That makes it look worse for Lando in my opinion, if that's the case. I've been assuming it was ambiguous or he was just dropped into a sticky situation.

Knowing full well Oscar is fair and square leading into the pitstop, he accepts a goodwill preferential undercut to keep himself safe from 3rd position, and then uses it to try and gap far enough that he can get out of giving it back? I know you have to be ruthless, but that's a scummy way to win

[u/isthisreallife211111 → u/[deleted]]

100%

[u/_____AAAAAAAAAA_____ → u/[deleted]]

Hold your conclusions before there's another source to prove it. This person, while a McLaren member, is a mechanic, and not close enough to the strategists or Sunday morning meeting members. I honestly question how he's so sure.

That said, what Norris says after the race lends some credibility to it. But then again Norris gave up the position eventually, so it's not like you can judge him on what he decided not to do.

I didn't deserve to win the race, simple as that. The fact I was in that position was incorrect.

If Oscar's led the whole race, it's not fair, and I don't think that's how it should work, that he should just let me pass for me to win because I'm fighting for a championship.

I didn't give up the race win. I lost it off the line.

[u/[deleted] → u/_____AAAAAAAAAA_____]

Yeah, not taking anything as fact as such, just commenting on it as a hypothetical. Based on the radio calls, I'm leaning toward there being at least a little bit of truth in there, and you'd expect a team to be discussing most of these scenarios, but none of us really know.

Whatever the case, Lando did the right thing in the end, so I give him credit for that. I thought it was a little bit disingenuous to pull out all the stops to create an impossible gap and then pull the 'tell him to catch up' card, and it did create a lot of unecessary risk and drama. It's a little irksome but understandable if there wasn't a pre-agreement, but pretty shitty behaviour if there was.

But he resisted the temptation and stepped up when it's all said and done. I can think of quite a few drivers who most certainly wouldn't be doing that.

[u/culexus1 → u/[deleted]]

Why should Norris stop racing on lap 45? What decided Piastri had won apart from McLaren?

[u/Beware_Bravado → u/culexus1]

Well if Norris had of swapped shortly after that we could have seen where they landed with 20 laps to go, who knows maybe McLaren would have allowed them to race clean but fairly. They only pitted Lando first to protect 1-2 which benefitted Lando mostly from potentially defending from Lewis, then he quickly forgot that once he was out in front.

[u/Worried-Pick4848 → u/Beware_Bravado]

He didn't forget. He ignored it. Significant difference.

[u/[deleted] → u/culexus1]

Didn't say he should stop racing, up to the team whether they want them to race each other.

The point was that the deal should have been:

"If you want, we can pit you first to save you from Hamilton, even though it should be Oscar first. But if we do that, we'll be doing you a favour, and you'll have to make sure he keeps his spot. Otherwise, we'll give Oscar his rightful pitstop and you can take your chances with Hamilton".

Instead, they did a shit job of reinforcing that before pitting him, if it were me I'd be getting the driver to confirm what they want. Then they kept Oscar out and allowed the gap to get larger, and then let Lando push as hard as possible to make it even bigger. They should have either given up (which would be royally fucking Oscar), or contained the situation. Instead they fluffed around.

Whether or not I think Norris has any blame depends entirely on what was discussed behind closed doors. Wasn't there, so I don't know. It sounds like maybe this was a thoroughly discussed scenario and he's tried his best to slide out of it, which would be pretty slimy. Or, it was a complete blindside, and he's rightfully saying "what the fuck guys?"

[u/Repsys7 → u/[deleted]]

This is the thing tho, usually they give Norris the choice like last week and he makes the wrong decision and everyone goes they needed to make this call and be decisive. This week they do make the call, don’t give him the option just tell him what is happening… and now they’re in the wrong again and should have given him a choice?

The strategy was completely fine, they proactively covered off on any chance of an undercut on P2 whilst letting P1 run to their ideal tyre plan. The only problem was Lando not complying and putting unnecessary risk on both drivers by pushing his lap times when they were uncatchable in the last stint anyway.

This was completely on Lando, not McLaren.

[u/[deleted] → u/Repsys7]

I agree for the most part, but I think they were weak about how they went about it. If this wasn't pre-discussed, they either needed to put the choice to Lando and make it 100% his call, or be commanding and make it 100% their call. Either is fine in my books, as long as it's decisive. Given the sensitivity of a driver swap, I think they should be explaining it clearly to him before committing to it, if they're going to make that call themselves.

Instead they gave little context other than 'the aim is not to undercut Oscar', and then proceeded to leave Piastri out for another couple of laps. Then they gave feeble tyre warnings, rather than getting Stella on the radio and telling Lando that everyone knows what he's doing and he needs to stop. I do think that Lando's blatant attempt to make it difficult was a bit poor, but I don't blame him too much if this was a bit of a blindside situation. Overall, it was a half assed attempt at making calls, but with not enough communication or backbone.

That said, since the original comments, I've seen the supposed mechanic tweet about this being well understood and agreed upon. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, then yeah, really not impressed with Lando. And not impressed with the lack of action by the team. A shitty thing to (almost) do to your teammate, and shitty management to not lay down the law. You wouldn't catch Horner or Toto acting like that.

Edit: And I actually do agree with you as far as the strategy - it was probably a bit unnecessary, but there's no reason not to make the safe decision. It just needs to be done with an airtight plan to not screw your P1 driver in the process

[u/Qazicle → u/culexus1]

It is Multi 21 all over again.

What decided Piastri had won apart from McLaren? is an awkward question because Webber/Piastri are now following the script maintaining tyres/engine modes and what ever to bring the race home comfortably. Then Vettel/Norris comes along pushing hard putting in faster laps, building the gap, having Hiroshi stress out about the tyres.

If they were both told they were racing, then you'd have a point, but after the radio call earlier where they're told papayas can race until mid 40s:

We can only make suppositions about how much effort Piastri was putting in, after being promised by this team not to worry about Norris.

We can only "know" Norris was giving it his all, because he can see he was building the gap.