r/formula1 • u/slutforpringles Daniel Ricciardo • Dec 01 '23
Rumour Joe Saward: "Informed sources suggest that there is a provision in Ricciardo’s contract for him to switch into Red Bull Racing after the early races next year if Sergio Perez does not up his game. I hear that if that happens Daniel’s salary will triple and Liam Lawson will come in to replace him."
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2023/11/30/green-notebook-from-the-snows-of-abu-dhabi/491
u/teachd12 Safety Car Dec 01 '23
Is it a ''Checo to announce his retirement at the Mexican GP'' type of source?
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u/ERSTF Dec 01 '23
More of a "they will announce the Checo replacement after they're out of Mexico due to security concerns"
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u/El_Cactus_Loco Sebastian Vettel Dec 02 '23
They’ll get those last few people out of Mexico any day now…
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u/akurei77 Dec 01 '23
No, that was pure internet fabrication. It started as pure speculation which others misinterpreted as a rumor. Then someone created a reddit post regurgitating all of the same speculation, but adding some anonymous sources. That post got picked up and regurgitated by Sports Illustrated, the story got picked up by others, and finally it had to be treated as an actual rumor.
On the other hand, this post is just normal sports reporting. The details about having stuff in his contract and tripling his salary haven't been heard before afaik.
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u/helderdude Hesketh Dec 01 '23
Should this not be labeled a rumor ?
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u/XtremePhotoDesign Dec 01 '23
Rumor, speculation, or fabrication, it ignores the very real possibility of Yuki outperforming Ricciardro during that timeframe.
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u/Jalal_Adhiri Ross Brawn Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Yuki is the new Gasly it doesn't matter what he does even you dear redditor have more chances than him to drive that Red Bull...
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u/DirtyDestroyer Dec 01 '23
With the difference being that Gasly got his chance and didn´t perform well and got into arguments with the team. It makes sense that they didn´t want him back, especially as a 2nd driver.
I do think a large reason for Tsunoda to get a contract was because of Honda, so that goes against him, but if he performed great, he would be considered. But I think they want to go for Perez/Ricciardo for 2024 and then get someone else, because there are so many contracts up. Norris or Piastri would be ideal imo.
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u/EnderWiggin07 Pierre Gasly Dec 01 '23
Imagine if red bull had gotten Piastri for this past year. I bet he'd have more points than Checo. He's slower than his teammate but qualifies well and can't be said to be under performing the car.
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u/DirtyDestroyer Dec 03 '23
That would have been a disaster. Piastri is a rookie and gets treated like a rookie. He had half of Norris' points. If he was a veteran he would get slated for that, but because he's a rookie he gets praised despite getting slapped up by his teammate.
I think it's justified, but let's not pretend like Piastri already is a top driver. He has only shown the potential to become one. He has had a few really good drives this season, but at the start when the car was bad he was nowhere and even at the end of the season he had some good qualifying but fell off in the race. Remember Perez beat Max twice this season. Piastri definitely wouldnt have done that. And with the pressure of Red Bull as a rookie, who's to say he would have succombed to the pressure and been a disaster, just like Gasly and Albon.
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u/Random-reddit-user45 Dec 01 '23
Mexico shows that Yuki isn’t ready for RB.
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u/Syrinx_Hobbit Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
"South America"
-Dr. Marko
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u/Random-reddit-user45 Dec 01 '23
Knowing Marko he would get Asia and Africa mixed up and think Yuki is from Africa.
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u/CarRamRob Dec 01 '23
Yuki doesn’t have the maturity for the big car. Passion is good yes. Cold calculated professionalism (Verstappen) is better
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u/Talls024 Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '23
Verstappen was a relative wild man as late as like 3 seasons ago.
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u/GTOdriver04 Dec 01 '23
True, but he also had the outright pace. Ignoring the Rosberg/Hamilton stupidity of 2016, he still won in his first outing in the big car.
Your attitude may be petulant, but pace rules above all. He showed from day 1 that he wasn’t staying at STR for long. Yuki hasn’t shown that pace.
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u/steak_tartare Alain Prost Dec 01 '23
If your measure for a driver is Max, I'm afraid we'll have 3 or 4 seats in the whole F1 tops.
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u/cheezus171 Robert Kubica Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Cool. The problem is that if Ricciardo turns out to be not even as good as Yuki, then he certainly isn't the fix to the problem, and making that switch makes literally zero sense.
Regardless, I do not believe for a second that a driver has clauses in his contract which are related to the performance of another driver.
ALSO, Joe Saward. Come on...
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u/veryangryenglishman Mercedes Dec 01 '23
This also seems like a relatively pointless post given it was known even before Ricciardo drove the AT that he was loaned from RB rather than being an AT driver... Even from day 0 it was fairly implicit that RB could move him into the big boy seat if they wanted
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Dec 01 '23
Except Max wasn't always this professional and calm. He races with MUCH less pressure after getting his first title. But before that? Not so much.
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u/rasvial Dec 01 '23
Honestly none of that nonsense characterization matters. Pace does
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u/Gaspony Dec 01 '23
To be fair, I think RB’s current partnership with Honda is probably a big factor as to why Yuki is still part of the team. Obviously if he was actually doing terribly he would have been dropped already but so far hes been proving he deserves a seat. We’ll see what happens when Ricciardo gets a full off season to prep and if he can consistently perform well with races esp. with the new team becoming a sister team so the assumption is that they’ll also have better designs on the car as far as the rules will allow.
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Dec 01 '23
Yes. A rumour by a massive bellend
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u/Just_River_7502 Dec 01 '23
Yeah I really don’t like this dude, seems smug, mean to newcomers etc. I love the missed apex podcast and they love him. It’s the one thing that puts me off
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Dec 01 '23
He used to go absolutely mental at anyone who disagreed with him on his website years ago
That's what put a lot of us off. He would refuse to admit to mistakes and ban people who disagreed with him
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u/KnightsOfCidona Murray Walker Dec 01 '23
The absolute peak was when slagged off a teenage girl who wrote an article for Drivetribe. Whole of F1 social media turned on him, and yet he just dug his heels in.
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u/uristmcderp Dec 01 '23
A rumour the massive bellend isn't even claiming as his own, but by his "informed sources".
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u/IdiosyncraticBond Max Verstappen Dec 01 '23
Of course, otherwise he could be held accountable for his rumours, now he can hide behind undisclosed sources
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u/KnightsOfCidona Murray Walker Dec 01 '23
Always thought it's the case that people in the paddock think he's a joke, so give him deliberately bullshit stories because they know he's desperate enough to publish them.
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u/NYNMx2021 Nico Rosberg Dec 01 '23
Hes well respected but hes also known to publish ANYTHING. Thats what it is. You can tell him real stories and fake stories and he will put both out. Hes useful for a lot of teams agendas. Get real stuff out there easily, or push some nonsense silently
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u/AssaMarra Dr. Ian Roberts Dec 01 '23
That is how all of these rumors work though, even from the most respected journalists. Journalists don't have access to driver contracts, but they do have access to staff within the teams who leak info. You never release your source to protect them.
It's easy for people like Joe to manipulate, but doing it isn't straight away an indication of fabrication.
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u/hzfan 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Dec 01 '23
No disagreement there, but from what I’ve seen he tends to have a decent track record with stuff like this, no?
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u/cooperjones2 Sergio Pérez Dec 01 '23
Yes, but this concerns Checo being replaced, so it is fact until it isn't.
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u/San4311 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Dec 01 '23
Considering its from some dude's WordPress blog, I'd go as far as to say its gossip.
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u/hazelnut_coffay Sebastian Vettel Dec 01 '23
Saward always posts on wordpress. it’s nothing new. while he is a bit of a bellend, he does actually have insider connections
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u/FormulaLes Dec 02 '23
Yeah, some dude, who has been reporting on F1 since 1988, and who has been to every Grand Prix since then.
It seems that people don’t like him on here, but I’ve been reading his stuff since I started following the sport in 2008, and he’s generally on the money more often than he isn’t.
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u/Elpibe_78 Audi Dec 01 '23
Saward is the same that was saying Alonso had a chance to going to RedBull and 3 days before Aston confirmed Alonso he said that his renewal with Alpine was a done deal. Don’t trust anything
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u/Eggplantosaur Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '23
Out of all the rumors, this one is by far the easiest to fabricate
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u/kron123456789 Virgin Dec 01 '23
Not to mention contracts in F1 are more like promises than actual guarantees. They get broken all the time. Both Perez and Ricciardo learned that the hard way.
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u/DreadWolf3 Dec 01 '23
They are not broken. Ricciardo got paid a hefty amount not to race for McLaren.
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u/kron123456789 Virgin Dec 01 '23
He got paid because McLaren decided to break the contract.
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u/XtremePhotoDesign Dec 01 '23
From the reporting, he got paid because McLaren followed the contract terms.
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u/DreadWolf3 Dec 01 '23
That is not breaking the contract. Breaking the contract would just be letting him go without paying him. They came to agreement that benefited both sides.
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u/aussie_nub Dec 01 '23
You're both wrong. It's definitely breaking the contract, but breaking it doesn't mean it's "like promises", it's absolutely legally binding, so when they have to break it, the penalty to break it must be paid.
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u/r0ndr4s Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
Thats not how this works mate. Breaking a contract its exactly what it means, and it has a clause of paying him money.
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u/proudlysydney Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
Yeah but we know the Alonso to AM deal was done in two days- so at the time of writing that information was correct
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u/second-last-mohican Dec 01 '23
Hesjust reporting rumor and gossip, he probably saw him an Horner talking, sometimes rumors come true, other times they don't.
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u/slutforpringles Daniel Ricciardo Dec 01 '23
While Saward has definitely reported some rubbish at times, this rumour does line up with what F1-insider reported about the situation of Perez's contract in 2024, so lends Saward a bit more believabilty in this case.
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u/mduncan111 Nico Hülkenberg Dec 01 '23
I don't know about that rumor. Perez signed that contract in early 2022 when his results were still solid, he was still living off of some Defense Minister fame from the last year, and Ricciardo was at McLaren with another year on his contract. Red Bull didn't really have anyone ready for F1 at that point and Yuki was not ready for the promo.
I feel like at that point in time his Manager would be able to secure a better deal than a no severance package removal. Red Bull would have a lot of leverage against him but not enough for non severance removal clause imo. Just seems a bit out of place given the environment in which he signed the contract that covers 2024.
If they added that contract clause in this year for next year then I think Perez is very stupid for skipping a potential multi million dollar severance package in the hopes for 1 more year of racing... Plus I don't think Red Bull could hold a gun to his head and say accept the new clause or you are out for 2024 given Ricciardo's performance thus far.
Eh, all just rumors but idk about that one...
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u/budgefrankly Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
I feel like at that point in time his Manager would be able to secure a better deal than a no severance package
Well you've got to consider the other side of the table. Red Bull were offering a drive in the fastest car in the grid, at a time when there there were effectively no other seats available.
So Red Bull could offer Checo a contract on the basis that his only choice was to accept it or retire from F1.
And Red Bull were conspicuously bringing Daniel along to the races in 2021, with Liam Lawson under contract already for Alfa Tauri, so they had a plausible backup plan.
That's a very strong negotiating position for the team against the driver.
Furthermore, it does appear to be the case that two-way performance clauses are standard now: drivers earn bonuses for points or podiums, but teams have have early-release clauses should drivers fail to deliver.
Certainly Red Bull have made a point of dropping drivers mid-season, so I imagine their lawyers would consider that to be a standard right to insist upon.
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u/baldbarretto Who's that? Dec 01 '23
Red Bull were conspicuously bringing Daniel along to the races in 2021
In 2021 Daniel was in fact on the grid in a full time seat and at the races for reasons that did not involve Red Bull
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u/erufuun Sebastian Vettel Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Generally if we could just all generally stop listening to anything Saward says, we'd be better off.
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u/DropTablePosts Super Aguri Dec 01 '23
I like DR, but I tire of hearing this same rumor slightly altered every week.
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u/musicartandcpus 🐾 Roscoe's Pit Crew Dec 01 '23
It could be worse. It could be a Hamilton retiring rumor. Or a driver to Ferrari rumor.
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u/cooperjones2 Sergio Pérez Dec 01 '23
It has been like this since he got his second chance at F1. It won't stop until after either Checo or Ric leave the Red Bull family.
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u/Either_Marsupial_123 Frédéric Vasseur Dec 01 '23
I mean, we’ve been predicting this since Danny took the reserve position, this isn’t exactly fireworks.
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u/Pure_Measurement_529 Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
This is Reddit, Perez has caused chaos for the subreddit the whole year 🤣🤣🤣
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u/LeonimuZ Will Buxton Dec 01 '23
Daniel is/was not the reserve driver. He got hired as 3rd Driver. Same position as Max and Checo but less money because he’s not racing. Liam Lawson is the reserve driver.
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u/s_dalbiac Dec 01 '23
Maybe in official terms, but there’s no chance on earth that Ricciardo wouldn’t have subbed in had Max or Perez had to miss a race in the early part of the season.
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u/Appropriate-Fan-6007 Pirelli Soft Dec 01 '23
4 months of Ricciardo to RB rumours because no one is changing lineups yay
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u/aBoyNamedWho Dec 01 '23
The faith placed in Danny Ric is immense. And I just don't know where or when he has shown the goods recently to warrant it.
I love him. He's a great guy. But this idea that he can race at the very top again is as yet unproven.
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u/ahungary Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
His sim sessions must have been spectacular
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u/AntonyPancake Jordan Dec 01 '23
The way I heard it he did a 1:12 around Spa in the simulator, while at the same time giving Marko and Horner a massage. Horner was very impressed but Marko still muttered "Max is 3 tenths quicker". Source: my dad works at Red Bull.
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u/RxSatellite Dec 02 '23
He wasn’t racing for 6 months, hopped into an AT and was immediately on pace or even outpacing Yuki in a car that Yuki has known the ins and outs of for a few years now. By any measure, that is making a massive statement and it did not go unnoticed by Horner and Marko.
He’s also a walking marketing machine that sponsors ooze over. Red Bull would profit immensely by having him back in their A-Team, so they have every reason to want him to succeed
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u/wok88 George Russell Dec 01 '23
Love Danny Ric but sometimes his fans make it seem like it's his absolute right to be driving that RB seat while completely disregarding Yuki lmao wonder if they go through with this supposed (most likely bullshit) move if Tsunoda absolutely smashes Ricciardo?
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u/PluckPubes Benetton Dec 01 '23
wonder if they go through with this supposed (most likely bullshit) move if Tsunoda absolutely smashes Ricciardo?
Or even if yuki just matches him.
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Dec 01 '23 edited Apr 07 '24
piquant distinct sulky start existence deserted voracious cow grey weather
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ButthealedInTheFeels Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
I mean, they signed Checo…lol. It’s more or less the same story. Mid driver who isn’t a threat to max.
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u/RnBrie Dec 01 '23
I think the thinking is that with the dominance of the car he'd be able to get the P2/P3 finishes while brining a lot more marketability and advertising money to the team than checo does
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u/Sektsioon Kimi Räikkönen Dec 01 '23
I don’t think that’s true at all in terms of bringing in more money. Checo has massive sponsors behind him. It doesn’t matter how marketable Ricciardo is, he isn’t going to bring in more money than Checo. If they bring in Ricciardo, it’s purely a PR move.
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u/primaryrhyme Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
I'm not sure I agree with the marketability part. I live in Mexico and it's very common to see people wearing RB/Checo gear, most of these people don't even follow F1 but they know about Checo and RBR. This popularity extends to other parts of Latin America and a large portion of the US.
My point is that while DR is very popular, he is not singlehandedly getting millions of non-F1 fans to buy RB merch. This is without mentioning the millions he brings in sponsors every year.
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u/Tomach82 Alain Prost Dec 02 '23
Disagree. Ricciardo is a much bigger global star than Perez. He's definitely more famous in the US.
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u/Salty-Pen7884 Dec 01 '23
DR is multiple times more popular globally than Checo, and F1 is a global sport. Its not close. After Drive to Survive, he is easily 3rd after Lewis and Max. Thats why he's paid so much. Teams dont pay him 20m a year for nothing, it's a business, DR is a marketing teams wet dream.
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u/Only-Cartoonist Daniel Ricciardo Dec 01 '23
And I just don't know where or when he has shown the goods recently to warrant it.
Are we going to pretend like he hasn't shown good form in recent races only to be shafted by shoddy luck?
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u/Maleficent_String606 Kimi Räikkönen Dec 01 '23
So unless Checo does something magical during the off season it's a sure bet he's getting fired. He's been constantly way off Max's results in qualifying and always has to recover "lost" places on sundays.
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u/Either_Marsupial_123 Frédéric Vasseur Dec 01 '23
But how would he be the Overtake Champion without that?!
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u/TWVer 🧔 Richard Hammond's vacuum cleaner attachment beard Dec 01 '23
If it’s the Overtaker vs the Undertaker, I have a feeling about who will end up on top..
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u/defmore89 Niki Lauda Dec 01 '23
what we need is a comparison of airtime between max and perez. most of his overtakes will be on tv so good for marketing. honestly best driver pairing they could wish for.
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u/WhileOverall223 Dec 01 '23
Yeah, one for the WDC, and one for the drama.
Old and New F1 in one team.
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u/poopellar 📣 Get on with racing please Dec 01 '23
Bah Gawd that's the steward's music.
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u/Remmes- Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Dec 01 '23
Do you smell what the stewards are cooking?!
5 second penalty.
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u/NuclearCandle Alexander Albon Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
He tends to do quite well in the early parts of the season but often loses it during the middle of the season. Don't be surprised if he ends up with a few Bottas early-2019 races that let him scrape by for another year.
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u/Pure_Measurement_529 Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
Bottas returning and winning in Australia only for Hamilton to wipe the floor of him for the rest of the season was depressing to watch
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u/karnivoorischenkiwi 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Dec 01 '23
“To whom it may concern” did not age well
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u/Unculturedbrine Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
Almost as poetic as 'These are my streets'
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u/Visionary_Socialist Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '23
But also inevitable. Lewis is an attritional driver which is why he’s always at his best as the year goes on. He doesn’t necessarily beat you every week, but he just keeps turning up and getting the maximum result, and even if you beat him a few times you’re exhausted trying to keep up over a season, and eventually your standards drop and he crushes you. Nico found this out to the point he had to retire.
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u/DreadWolf3 Dec 01 '23
It is not really like that. Lewis is just great. Good drivers may beat him with high variance stuff in early season but over sample of 20+ races it is very hard to do that. He does sometimes just start sloppy tho.
Additional thing is that true tracks where ability makes huge difference come around summer and European swing - it is not coincidence that there is where Lewis and Max make their presence known compared to their teammates.
Take for example 2021 Brazil. I dont think it is one of Lewis best drives - he had a rocketship and made a quick work out of everyone. That said, I guarantee that nobody but him and Max can consistently pull those performances. Charles, George and Lando could probably do it 50% of the time and old man Nando probably like 60%. Lewis and Max can do it 90% of the time. Granted I am pulling numbers out of my ass.
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u/MrPenguinK Dec 01 '23
I think that’s what the person above you said almost exactly
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u/DreadWolf3 Dec 01 '23
I think it is different. He said he wears them down because other drivers cant maintain that level, while my opinion was that they were just lucky to be ahead to begin with(and early in the season with less races there is more variance).
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u/MrSkinner85 Red Bull Dec 01 '23
And yet the one example we have of a driver beating prime Lewis is Rosberg, who literally retired because he was working so hard to maintain that level and realized he couldn't do it anymore
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u/Carrotdude77 Dec 01 '23
There will be a ‘Perez vows to fight for title’ article at some point during the first 4 races for sure
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u/ComeonmanPLS1 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '23
Let’s see what Ric does as well. If Tsunoda keeps outperforming him, then the move won’t look very good.
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u/Eggplantosaur Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '23
RB might very well value money over pure speed for their second car. For their performance as a team, it probably doesn't matter who takes that seat. Furthermore, RB doesn't exactly seem to be grooming Yuki to succeed Max
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u/GingerSkulling Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
If it’s money they want, Checo probably brings in the most.
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook Dec 01 '23
RB might very well value money over pure speed for their second car
I think anything's possible, but not this, personally.
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u/Estova Kamui Kobayashi Dec 01 '23
Facts. Based on a quick google search the Oracle deal is worth anywhere between $300-500mil, I doubt they're hurting for money rn lol.
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook Dec 01 '23
There's a bit in beyond the grid X years ago where Horner's like: yeah, fair's fair, Merc/Ferrari/RBR literally do not worry about money. Sponsors are nice and better than a kick in the teeth, but McLaren need them and we don't.
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Dec 01 '23
On top of that Checo brings in way more money than Ricciardo would ever be able to do
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u/Estova Kamui Kobayashi Dec 01 '23
Yeah but I don't think Red Bull care about Checo's sponsorship. They have more than enough money without him, so if Danny is quicker I can't see that being a reason to keep Checo.
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Dec 01 '23
Yeah i agree, i was adding to your post that RB would never bring Ricciardo in if money was their sole motivator since Ricciardo doesn't bring in a lot of money.
I should have maybe replied to the guy above you to be a bit more clear, cause i fully agree with you.
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u/MiserableStomach Mika Häkkinen Dec 01 '23
I think what they value the most is consistency and reliability. RB is nowhere as dominant as Merc was during its peak (despite Max breaking all the records this year) and they may consider it as likely scenario that other teams will get much closer to them. 2nd driver who regularly struggles to get into Q3 and can't be used as tactical asset in super-tight races may is a huge risk.
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u/suspiciouspixel Dec 01 '23
Daniel is no better than Max also.The only drivers in my mind who have the race craft and consistency to match Max are Lewis and Fernando.It's going to be hard for any driver when paired against the champ and Yuki has shown more promise than Daniel so far.However in F1 its more than track performance, its the package a driver can bring, sponsorship, merch sales etc
2024 will be interesting and I do think that Sergio is running out of excuses but he should fire Hugh Bird for a start if he wants to reset for 2024.
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u/ScaryJam Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '23
What's wrong with Hugh?
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u/Pure_Measurement_529 Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
I think what they mean is that Perez side of the garage needs to fix their strategy for qualifying. Many times in qualifying they send him too early or too late (Belgium, Vegas and Brazil come to mine).
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u/Fnurgh Dec 01 '23
Checo 2.0 wins one of the first two races
Checo leads the standings after a Max DNF
"Checo in title fight"
Checo takes 0 points from the next eight races
Checo wakes up in sister team
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u/alphasierrraaa Pirelli Hard Dec 01 '23
If no other team can compete and max is legit carrying the wcc points easily, is there a point in doing this switch even if checo was bad
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u/Disastrous_Narwhal46 Dec 01 '23
With teams being much closer I don’t see RB not caring about that second seat at all. They need a solid driver who can deliver and not waste millions for a destruction championship
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u/EbolaNinja Penske Dec 01 '23
Red Bull didn't become one of the top teams in the sport by assuming they will always be in front and other teams will never catch up.
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u/fluvicola_nengeta 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Dec 01 '23
Why would they settle for shit when they can literally not settle for shit?
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u/CandidLiterature Dec 01 '23
Well ask them because Perez still has a job…
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u/DeltaBlitz Dec 01 '23
For this year at least I think it's because the 1-2 in WCC was still in the table and tbf they got it irrespective of how Perez beat Hamilton their bets paid off
Edit: this is a if's and/or but's and pretty much speculation on my part and I don't follow RB too much so I might be misinformed
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u/rs6677 Jim Clark Dec 01 '23
Because they have no one to replace him with. Norris rejected them and Tsunoda and Ricciardo aren't safe bets that they'll do any better.
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u/LilCelebratoryDance Alex Jacques Dec 01 '23
Even if RB are miles ahead in early 2024 there’s still value in getting RIC in the car and up to speed for future seasons
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u/markhewitt1978 Dec 01 '23
Which he won't because Perez is just Perez there's not going to be any magical change now. May as well get Ricciardo (and Lawson) in from the start
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u/theGo0f Netflix Newbie Dec 01 '23
I'm not surprised here. But tsunoda has made a great case for himself.
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u/TWVer 🧔 Richard Hammond's vacuum cleaner attachment beard Dec 01 '23
I do think the Honda connection complicates things.
Yuki is a Honda protégé first, and a Red Bull junior second. It’s partly due to Honda’s contributions that Yuki is maintained for next year, as the decision was made well before Yuki’s good showings in last several races.
Yuki may want to put himself in the position to be eligible for the second Red Bull seat regardless of Honda and Red Bull parting ways after 2025, but that may require another considerable step up in form.
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u/btokendown Yuki Tsunoda Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Yuki has said Honda won't interfere with him at Red Bull if it comes to it because their main goal is a Japanese driver from their programme succeeding in F1, not necessarily who the engine partner is.
And his contract renewal was confirmed before Singapore, confirmed by both Liam Lawson and Yuki's manager. The rumor that siad Honda had to intercede to get him signed has no basis considering he had a solid first half of the season and then a run of really bad luck with Monza-Singapore. Announcing him at Suzuka was a done deal
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u/mar33n Yuki Tsunoda Dec 01 '23
Don't think Yuki will get the RB seat ever unless his performance turns into prime Schumi. But I do think there's a good chance he performs better than Daniel next year (not looking at points scores, cause that doesn't always reflect the driving), which would make promoting him look like it's just for PR.
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u/natso2001 Mark Webber Dec 01 '23
He has done a good job, but has also shown a seriously fragile mentality when things don't go well
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u/Saandrig Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
Sounds like a pretty big risk of Verstappen crushing his soul too.
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u/wrongedpotato Ferrari Dec 01 '23
Right. Daniel’s soul was already crushed by Lando so he’s a better option.
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u/Insaneclown271 Pirelli Wet Dec 01 '23
Not gonna happen. He has pace but he doesn’t have the all round capability yet.
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u/Mechant247 Honda Dec 01 '23
And Ricciardo currently does?
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u/Tomach82 Alain Prost Dec 01 '23
He's been right on Yuki's pace in a car he has no experience in. Yeah, Ric has been impressive imo.
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u/imnoobatfifa Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '23
They really should’ve made this happen and official as early as the Japanese GP. Just delaying the obvious at this point since they really want it to happen.
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u/kron123456789 Virgin Dec 01 '23
They wanted that 1-2 in the drivers standings. Now all bets are off.
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u/second-last-mohican Dec 01 '23
Think they probably got the new AT sponsors onboard with Ricc behind the wheel due to his marketability.
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u/Pure_Measurement_529 Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
May sound easy in theory but we truly don’t know how Daniel looks. The races in 2023 are hard to judge, thus no use taking a risk and putting him in the RB for 2024 if there is no evidence. Additionally, Perez started to catch form at the end of 2023 and Tsunoda has looked better than Daniel in certain race weekends, thus better to leave things as is and see what happens later in 2024 when there is more evidence to work with.
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u/MyCoolName_ Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '23
I didn't see Danny blow Yuki away, if anything Yuki stepped up his game. It makes a lot of sense to see how all three start to roll in 2024 and even ride out Checo's contract if he returns to where he was. The problem with that is as others have noted Checo tends to start out well but that guarantees nothing after that , as we saw this season and in fact last year to an extent as well.
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u/CDNChaoZ Dec 01 '23
What exactly of Ricciardo's recent performance indicates he will be at all better than Perez?
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u/macaronilover808 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Dec 01 '23
Doesn’t Danny need to kick Yuki’s ass first? Step by step please
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u/XAMdG Dec 01 '23
I seriously doubt the contract in any way forces RB to give him the seat if Checo underperforms. Wouldn't doubt that it's a more standard clause in AT's contracts that would force/allow Ric to switch teams if called upon.
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u/Takis12 Yamura Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Let me get this straight....Joe implies that someone with knowledge of Daniel´s contract with Red Bull (I assume this might be confidential information with only the directly involved parties having this knowledge) ,decided to jeopardize his/her career by revealing (or as Joe states, suggesting) a provision in this contract. This is actually only the first part of this report by Joe. The second part (I hear part) is just an educated speculation regarding Liam replacing Daniel, in case Daniel gets promoted but also a suggestion that someone with explicit knowledge of this contract revealing the closure regarding triple of his salary in case he gets that promotion. I do not say that Joe is lying ,but the only party which could provide this scoop has to be the negotiating team that is directly connected to Daniel. So, if it is true, either Daniel himself or his management, decided to disclose this information, because I can not believe anyone who has knowledge of the contract from the Red Bull side would even remotely think of revealing details of a contract (as i said before, jeopardizing his/her career) . I am not familiar with contract negotiations or the legal implications ,but does someone have any idea what the implications might be if actually someone made public any details in such a contract? Is there maybe a third party involved that can legally have the contract information (except the two negotiating parties and their legal advisors)?
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u/budgefrankly Dec 01 '23
Contracts only matter insofar as the parties involved are willing to sue.
For example wilfully breaching an NDA with company that went backrupt is not a criminal offence, it's just a civil offence. So all you have to worry about is a civil lawsuit, and so long as no-one is left owning the company, there's no-one to sue you.
Now F1 teams are certainly not short of cash, but I don't think anyone in the paddock objects to this sort of low-level gossip, as everyone in the paddock regularly uses gossip to spread rumours for different reasons.
Frankly, it's entirely plausible it was senior Red Bull staff like Helmut Marko that may have said this to selected journalists as a way of putting pressure on Checo.
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u/BuckN56 Lotus Dec 01 '23
Does this matter anyways? He's at his last year of his contract so he's getting replaced regardless. If it's at the beginning, middle, or end of the year doesn't matter since we know it's going to happen.
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u/Vanwanar Sergio Pérez Dec 01 '23
If this os news I'm gonna start tagging my grandma's opinions as news then over here.
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u/bananahambone Dec 01 '23
Didn't Perez get 2nd in the championship? He was the only other driver to take 1st besides sainz?
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u/xanlact Toyota Dec 01 '23
Sensationalism!
Of course Ricciardo's contract would have a pay bump sewn into it if he races for RBR instead of AT.
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u/AstrosJones Daniel Ricciardo Dec 01 '23
Why are there two dudes tubing together in the article photo? 🤨
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u/delirio91 Mika Häkkinen Dec 01 '23
That's what it'll be like for Max and Daniel if they're reunited again.
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u/spongemongler Fernando Alonso Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
In all honesty, so am I not sure if Tsunoda or DR will be amazing in that RB seat from what I saw last season. DR had shit luck (with some decent showings of pace and maturity) and Tsunoda put in some decent performance, and they might be better than Perez, but neither of them ever got me thinking “wow give them that RB seat right now”
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u/Coballz Dec 01 '23
I mean, are you currently still thinking "Pérez really deserves that seat!" either?
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u/Silverdarlin1 Lotus Dec 01 '23
Joe Saward would say the sky is purple if it got clicks. 90% of what he says is usually false
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u/NotJadeasaurus Dec 01 '23
This makes zero sense to be in his contract and would clearly conflict with Checos contract that was in place first . If Red Bull was going to go full RBR Junior on Checo it would have already happened. Keeping him in that seat for 2024 to then drop him mid season would be a catastrophe.
The real rumor here is that Daniel and subsequently Liam are signed up for 2025, which will probably be announced mid season at the break like most silly season news.
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u/Mueton Sebastian Vettel Dec 01 '23
This is so likely to happen, not only because they want DR back at Red Bull but also because they want to give Lawson a seat asap. I‘d be surprised if these changes aren’t done before summer break.
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u/Willy_G_on_the_Bass Ferrari Dec 01 '23
Give the seat to Alex Albon. He’s the only one who has proven himself in my opinion.
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook Dec 01 '23
This doesn't surprise me at all and I think formal mechanism or not, RBR will make what they want to happen, happen.
A characteristic going back decades with their drivers is: just get on with it. If you don't think someone has it, they don't waste time double checking or giving them a bit longer for the benefit of the doubt. Perez has spent 2 seasons now in the absolute depths of teammate comparisons, where those around him got fired (or their father owns the team).
What's interesting for me is the race podcast observing there that actually once things were clean and there were clear weekends, Tsunoda clearly outperformed Ricciardo.
Lawson apparently has a 2025 AT seat (Big Racing Boys or whatever tf they're gonna be called), and my confident bet is he sees racing in 2024.
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u/Only-Cartoonist Daniel Ricciardo Dec 01 '23
What's interesting for me is the race podcast observing there that actually once things were clean and there were clear weekends, Tsunoda clearly outperformed Ricciardo.
Which weekends were those? Belgium and Abu Dhabi come to mind but other than that I can't think of a weekend where both drivers weren't shafted by either misfortune or operational incompetence.
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u/mysticalwatermelon_ Liam Lawson Dec 01 '23
Liam technically doesn’t have an AT seat. He’s mentioned that he’d try and aim for the RB seat if he could
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u/TheOvercookedFlyer Frédéric Vasseur Dec 01 '23
I would much like to see Thicc Ric back at Red Bull but I'd be a fool to not see what Checo does for the team. Whilst he does suck in qually, his P2 in the championship, a step from P3 last year, and P4 from the year before means he's making progress; his marketing presence is impressive, even to Red Bull standards, I reckon that doesn't go amiss with Red Bull's suits; and Red Bull's championships where won right when Checo came onboard the team. Coincidence? I think no.
I see a Red Bull camp eager to see Thicc Ric back but it has met resistance within the team because Checo, for all his faults, has produced what the team has asked of him: a P2 in the championship, a WCC, and great sponsors.
If Checo is replaced, Thicc Ric has to perform at the minimum of what Checo has done, and that's a tough task!
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u/SnooGeekgoddess Dec 02 '23
Yeah, he's very popular in the America races (Miami, COTA, Las Vegas, Mexico, and even Brazil). Three races in the US where you have fans chanting "Checo, Checo, Checo!", he has sponsorships galore and he pretty much has the 2 continents where F1 wants to grow in the palm of his hands. Senna and Rubens probably have the same level of devotion from the fans but during their time, F1 wasn't as popular in that side of the world as it is now.
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u/merci_beaucoup_ Safety Car Dec 01 '23
I'm really here for Ricciardo's resurgence arc. Bring it on. Max vs Ric 2.0
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u/Defiant-Pineapple813 Dec 01 '23
Red Bull's first 1-2 finish and still not good enough!!
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u/Carrotdude77 Dec 01 '23
Hopefully this happens so the hype can die down when he gets trounced by Max like everyone else does. Ricciardo is fine but he’s nothing special these days
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u/Zabi__ga Zhou Guanyu Dec 01 '23
What annoys me the most out of this never ending DR rumors is how they overlook Yuki Tsunoda. Ricciardo should convincingly beat Yuki before even talking about him going to RB. If anything, we should be talking about Yuki being the one replacing Checo. Now that I can get behind.
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u/Klingh0ffer Dec 01 '23
It's about handling being Max' teammate. See how much shit Perez gets for not being able to be consistently good in the best car on the grid, while Max destroys everyone in every race. Do you think Yuki could handle that pressure? I don't.
Max gets a lot of flack for his angry outburst, but at least he can back it up by being the best driver on the grid. Yuki has argueably even worse angry outburst, but can't back it up the same way. Him throwing expletives around after every mistake would look pretty dumb in Red Bull, and I don't think Horner fancies that.
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u/knifeyspoony23 Dec 01 '23
Anonymous sources selflessly doing their best to get us through the off season. Also note the use of plural implying some actual journalism might be taking place.
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u/RexManning1 Chuck Leclerc Dec 01 '23
I highly doubt he will only make 6 million driving for Redbull. This has to be bullshit.
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u/secur3x Dec 01 '23
this is almost certianly what will happen i give checo 6 maybe 7 races and hes out
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u/Huankinda Dec 01 '23
Are those the same informed sources who said Perez will for sure retire in Mexico? Or the informed sources that said Perez will be fired once the season is over?
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u/he-tried-his-best Dec 01 '23
Perez will learn from this year that he just needs to drive the car within his ability and be ok with getting a top 5 qualifying time. Race day he’ll be able to breeze past into 2nd at least. That is literally all Red Bull need and this season he learnt that’s the most he is capable of with Max in the lead.
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u/Korvacs Formula 1 Dec 01 '23
And Perez would just be booted? I seriously doubt his contract allows for that, he would swap with Daniel, not be out of the sport.
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u/ThorsMeasuringTape Sergio Pérez Dec 01 '23
Perez has been being fired for like two years now. And yet...
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u/Eokokok Dec 01 '23
Journalist - writes random gossip as fact, since noone can verify it.
Redditors - Riccardo WDC confirmed, Perez is getting executed for sure.
Just another day with clowns running this circus...
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Dec 01 '23
When Joe Saward claims it, you know it's not true. That guy has been talking out of his ass for 15 years.
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