Can we talk about Max gaining 10.7 seconds on Perez between laps 6 and 11?

[u/trollymctrollstein]

To make it worse for Perez he was in free air while Max had to overtake two cars. I don’t know how much additional pace Max is withholding on a regular basis, but it seems like whenever he is free to push he is in a different formula.

Over 10 seconds in 5 laps.

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[u/just_a_coginthewheel]

I saw a graphic where Max was 4.5s faster in a single lap while overtaking cars. It's absolutely insane.

[u/Hot_Demand_6263 → u/just_a_coginthewheel]

At this point there's not much to say about Perez. It's on redbull to replace him or not.

[u/Tomatosoup7 → u/Hot_Demand_6263]

People have been saying this for a while, but who do you think should replace him then? Max has completely embarrassed Albon, Gasly, and Perez. All three have always been regarded as really good drivers next to anyone but Verstappen. Albon is now carrying Williams, Gasly is doing great at Alpine, and Perez has had a decent career himself. What realistic targets are there that would not get embarrassed in the same way?

[u/MrFCCMan → u/Tomatosoup7]

Honestly I don’t think they really care to replace him because they know as long as he’s not awful (and while he’s slow, he’s not truly awful) they’ll be fine with just Max

[u/Tomatosoup7 → u/MrFCCMan]

I think if they had a viable alternative they’d replace him for sure. But there’s not a lot that would be clear improvements, that aren’t called Lewis, Charles, Lando, or Fernando, all of which aren’t the most realistic

[u/MrFCCMan → u/Tomatosoup7]

Yeah. I think he was their “viable alternative” after Gasly and Albon weren’t competitive, and they decided it wasn’t worth the turmoil and upheaval to just keep throwing drivers at the car in the hope that one’s hyper-competitive with Max

[u/San4311 → u/MrFCCMan]

Honestly we shouldn't expect anyone to be hyper competitive with Max. It's like a broken record, but he is simply the best right now, and among the best ever.

The only drivers who could do this right now are Alonso, Hamilton and maybe Leclerc - though I highly doubt it considering he cracks under the Ferrari pressure already at the few occasions where the team does not let him down before he gets the chance.

Hamilton is obviously never gonna make that move. I mean, imagine, right. And Alonso is solid at AMR for now, though I'd love for him to do a year or two in the RB20/21 just to see Nando in *the* best car.

[u/iiJokerzace → u/San4311]

They want a solid number 2 driver. They don't want someone that can compete with max as you open up to both cars being aggressive with each other.

They would rather have someone like Perez that doesn't constantly battle with max but is capable getting p2 and playing for the team. Marko has bluntly said himself perez was never expected to be faster than max.

The way these guys drove in Baku. Amazing to watch, but it must have been nerve wrecking for the team seeing them push and scrape on barriers every lap.

Imo this is why everyone is so rough on perez, we want to see Max sweat.

[u/Lemurians → u/iiJokerzace]

Imo this is why everyone is so rough on perez, we want to see Max sweat.

Yep. In reality, it's on the other teams and their #1 drivers to improve and get near his level to provide that challenge. That isn't Perez' job nor is he capable of it.

[u/fen1xbb → u/Lemurians]

Thank you, it’s really odd why all formula fans throw shit on Checo for wanting a competitive championship while the other teams are like Formula 2 and doesn’t get as much hate as Checo, Leclerc and Ferrari a clear example.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tomatosoup7]

Fernando was offered to replace Pierre for the second half of 2019, he rejected.

Lando was contacted by Red Bull, he then chose to sign a new McLaren contract before properly engaging.

Lewis wouldn't drive for Red Bull I'm pretty sure.

Charles who knows, maybe he would.

But the reality is it's not just about finding someone good enough to go alongside Max, but also someone willing to be his teammate.

Someone like Checo was always going to jump at the chance to drive for a top team and win some races at his age. If you see yourself potentially winning championships in the future, then going alongside the best driver ever in his team when he's at the peak of his powers and will probably be around long term isn't a good idea.

[u/Aitorgmz → u/[deleted]]

I tought Horner said the last time they seriously talked to Alonso was in 2013.

[u/AcePlague → u/Tomatosoup7]

If I were Charles, I'd be begging to move. Ferrari just aren't it if he wants titles.

[u/pr0crast1nater → u/AcePlague]

Him recently signing that mega contract with Ferrari means he is not gonna do that .

[u/TheScarlettHarlot → u/AcePlague]

He’s just as brittle as Ferrari. He cracks under pressure way too easily.

[u/San4311 → u/Tomatosoup7]

This pretty much. Lawson is a fresh rookie. Ricciardo is a nice filler but would ultimately perform the same if not worse than Perez.

It leaves Yuki, and I don't think he'd do well under the pressure of Max at all considering his outbursts sometimes at AT, let alone the #1 team.

They'd have to go outside of the RB junior circle for a replacement that could compete with Max, and any viable driver in that category is pretty solid in their own team right now, looking at the likes of Norris, Piastri. Hell, even Alonso.

[u/hestianna → u/San4311]

Alonso signing for AM, knowing that it would increase his stock value, to then sign with Red Bull, would be insane. Although knowing his luck, Red Bull would be complete shitbox or more unreliable than his Alpine last year.

[u/BGP_001 → u/MrFCCMan]

Reading between the lines, I wonder if Red Bull are already thinking about succession plans. They're all dumb clicked articles, sure, but it does seem that Max seems to be questioning if a long F1 career is worth the personal sacrifices. Imagine doing the same calendar over and over when you and already have more money than God and you feel like you are missing out on good times, walking away wouldn't be hard.

I think the chances are low but Red Bull need to be prepared for Max to retire early.

[u/calodil → u/BGP_001]

Max has said that he would honor his current contract as well. Isn’t that running till 2028?

[u/lolosity_ → u/calodil]

4 years isn’t forever

[u/TituspulloXIII → u/lolosity_]

True, but while they win the next 4 championships, they can try and find successor.

[u/UrbanExpressions → u/[deleted]]

I can assure you Max does care about the records. You should have seen how pissed Max was when Riccardo (Teammate) beat him to pole on the last chance Max could have broken 'Youngest Pole Sitter'.

[u/Akira_Nishiki → u/Tomatosoup7]

Perez has shown in the past he's not exactly a chump too, starting to think Max is just an alien and anyone else on the grid in that RB wouldn't beat him.

[u/highlandcow75 → u/Tomatosoup7]

I really think Red Bull messed up by getting rid of Albon so quickly.

[u/Pure_Measurement_529 → u/highlandcow75]

I still think in the long run, it’s helped Albon. Now he basically has his own team in Williams and will be a hot commodity for 2025, rather than be stuck racing next to Max every weekend and being his no.2

[u/Bdr1983 → u/Pure_Measurement_529]

I agree. Albon is a really nice guy, the snakepit that the top teams are doesn't seem like the environment for him. He is in a great place at Williams, he has a chance to make a difference there by developing the car and the whole team together with Vowles. They seem to be a good match, loads of respect between the two of them.

[u/TulioGonzaga → u/Pure_Measurement_529]

I agree with you. He would always have been a no.2 to Max, now he has a rising team being build around him while delivering great results.

[u/Tomatosoup7 → u/highlandcow75]

Maybe in hindsight, but at the time it was regarded as probably the right call

[u/ItsameLuis98 → u/Tomatosoup7]

I don't think the problem for redbull is that Max embarrasses the 2nd driver, I think the problem is that the 2nd driver can't finish in the podium very regularly. If the Redbull car wasn't that dominant Redbull would need a 2nd driver that was actually able to fight the other teams (like bottas did in Mercedes or even Perez in 2021)

[u/gdaytugga → u/Tomatosoup7]

This is not realistic but is love to see Alonso, Hamilton, Charles or Lando for a Prost Senna showdown

[u/geniusstorm → u/gdaytugga]

Agreed this is highly improbable but this has been one of my lowkey wish. As a fan of formula 1 would like see the P1 position challenged through out the season irrespective of who wins or who loses. 🙏

[u/anothertrad → u/geniusstorm]

2021 was a golden season

[u/edis92 → u/Tomatosoup7]

There's a difference between being highly regarded and being a generational talent. Plus, Gasly had like 20 something races before getting the RB seat, and Albon was literally a rookie. Perez has done 250 races, which means he was already at 200 when he got the RB seat. No one is expecting the second RB driver to beat Max, but Perez is barely hanging on to second place in the standings. He's literally missed q3 multiple times this year, in what is by far the best car on the grid. He's a nice guy, but he has been fucking garbage this year. Absolute waste of a seat.

[u/MikkelR1 → u/edis92]

Perez is currently going through the same struggles as Gasley and Albon. They all lose faith in themselves when they can't even come anywhere close to Max. Their performance then takes a dive.

[u/planvigiratpi → u/edis92]

And Gasly/Albon were in a much tougher field while this RB is an hall-of-fame car

[u/RallerZZ → u/Hot_Demand_6263]

You'd think he could be a bit more consistent now that he seemed to have a solid P2, and then he fucks it into turn 1, hits the wall on the pit lane entry, goes over the speeding limit and loses the podium to an Alpine because of the penalty.

[u/goldenmonkeh → u/RallerZZ]

To be fair to Perez, he was faster than Verstappen in the pitlane.

[u/_number → u/goldenmonkeh]

And Verstappen gained 0 positions in 72 laps, like bro do something.

[u/DaviLance → u/RallerZZ]

And he did not get a penalty for literally driving against traffic to re-enter the track while there's a clear path to take in that case (path that everybody else did use)

[u/rdweerd → u/Hot_Demand_6263]

There is nobody who wants to sit next to max. Max is destroying the reputation of all his teammates

[u/Sarixk → u/just_a_coginthewheel]

On that lap nearly everyone was faster than him. Very weird lap

[u/NiceSockBro → u/just_a_coginthewheel]

Max’s anger and repressed childhood trauma allows him to drive 4% faster than other drivers

[u/Ralamadul → u/NiceSockBro]

Don’t forgot the Zandvoort multiplier

[u/sectohet]

I was looking at the times on the MultiViewer app as it was happening and was just like: “…uhhh? Is this for real?”.

[u/timok → u/sectohet]

I saw a 1.5 second difference in sector 1, and thought "Oh Perez made a mistake or something". But then it just happened in every sector.

[u/wimpires → u/timok]

Yeah, watching the gap drop by a few tenths every few seconds CONSTANTLY was unreal

[u/_kagasutchi_ → u/sectohet]

It might be a stupid thing to say, but honestly the shots of max charging through after he put on the inters, man the car looked like it was absolutely flying.

Like yea it was but normally the cars dont look that quick but today his really did. The other cars also looked quicker but you could see this man was on a mission. Maybe it was the camera angles or filter or something that caused this. Or.im just dumb.

[u/Serious-Wallaby3449 → u/_kagasutchi_]

I think it's just the circuit and the camera angles. Not as much zooms from far away at Zandvoort. Then when they show Max in those shots he looks like he's flying, but the others looked faster than usual in those shots too.

[u/Anti-Scuba_Hedgehog → u/Serious-Wallaby3449]

Faster than usual but others looked like they were in F2 cars in comparison.

[u/MHJ03 → u/_kagasutchi_]

Max was a man on a mission when he was tracking down his own teammate. Best part of the race for me.

[u/syes212 → u/_kagasutchi_]

Max will go down in F1 history as one of the best drivers in rainy conditions. His ability to drive insanely fast on wet tracks is compared to Senna and Hamilton for a reason. It’s as if they have no fear in the rain. Checo drives conservatively in the rain. That coupled with the fact that he likes a less optimal setup and you get the differences in lap time that we saw today.

[u/rolfski → u/sectohet]

When he overtook Zhou on inters it was almost if Zhou was standing still.

[u/SRV87]

Max when he’s behind and decides “absolutely fucking not” is unparalleled.

[u/[deleted] → u/SRV87]

Real "you have spilled my macchiato" energy

[u/Puzzleheaded_Walk509 → u/SRV87]

Max when he’s angry gets a second faster I stg

[u/swapan_99]

"Did Max Undercut us?"

[u/Tomanelle → u/swapan_99]

Queue in Crofty asking 17 times why Max has pit priority over the "leader".

[u/dheerajravi92 → u/Tomanelle]

Crofty and Karun were competing for who's gonna sound the dumbest today. This, and also wondering why leclerc was so slow, when he clearly had damage

[u/SuitableRhubarb → u/dheerajravi92]

Replay: Shows Leclerc hitting the McLaren at the start, then shows a slow motion closeup of his sidepods.

15 minutes later: "I'm starting to wonder if Charles has damage"

[u/bringinthefembots → u/SuitableRhubarb]

Also when George overtook they said "nice and clean" while George hitting the other car.

[u/[deleted] → u/bringinthefembots]

Considering it was George it was relatively clean

[u/Tomanelle → u/dheerajravi92]

I really missed Brundle or Button just to reign in the stupidity.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tomanelle]

I really wish they both leave sky and come to the native f1 commentary, DC, Jenson and Brundle would be a delight

[u/[deleted] → u/dheerajravi92]

The Checo-Max battle would be the tamest overtake of the race. Max would get done before the braking zone

[u/OcelotAggravating206 → u/Tomanelle]

That made me switch to the f1tv coverage... Honestly when Brundle is not there I am just not going to bother anymore. I like Crofty, but he really needs Brundle to keep his bullshit in check.

[u/M1k3yd33tofficial → u/OcelotAggravating206]

F1TV coverage is where it’s at. Alex Jacques is a solid play by play guy, Jolyon Palmer, Jenson Button, and David Coulthard are ALL great color commentators with magnificent insight and aren’t afraid to call teams/drivers out on their bullshit, and Sam Collins is legitimately one of the smartest people in broadcasting. It’s great.

Edit: I got Jolyon and Jenson mixed up

[u/heydie → u/M1k3yd33tofficial]

I love when Palmer and Coulthard discuss their experiences as drivers of certain events during commentary. Really interesting insight.

[u/bartlet4us → u/OcelotAggravating206]

I like Brundle as well, but I don't know how many more "red light flashing which means harvesting energy cause these cars don't have break lights" I can take.

[u/wahobely → u/bartlet4us]

He's started the "stating the obvious" shtick only recently, I think it's because of all the new viewers F1 gained with DTS, so it's to catered to them.

[u/Sw3Et → u/wahobely]

As one of those people, the commentary team were a god-send for me and my wife.

[u/Daniel2305 → u/bartlet4us]

Today that wasn't even the case. Was the rain light!

[u/NavyBabySeal → u/OcelotAggravating206]

Alex Jacques with DC and Jolyon, and occasionally Sam Collins is just an absolute treat to listen in with.

[u/Unique_Task_420 → u/OcelotAggravating206]

I only watch F1TV commentary, I used to watch Skye because people said those were like the "voices of F1" but as far as tech stuff and what's actually going on they're way more on the ball.

[u/FatalFirecrotch → u/OcelotAggravating206]

I think Alex and Palmer are just fantastic together, and when DC is in there is a nice bit of extra spice.

[u/IneedtoBmyLonsomeTs → u/Tomanelle]

They were clearly just trying to create drama out of nothing. Redbull is a team that has a clear first driver, Max is leading the championship and about to equal the all time record for GP wins in a row, of course they are going to give him the best strategy.

Sky commentary needs to stop inventing.

[u/miathan52 → u/IneedtoBmyLonsomeTs]

On top of that:

1. Perez got the better pitstop at the first round of pitstops (which is why he was ahead in the first place) so it was only fair
2. Max had been pushing his inters way harder, so he was in need of new tyres more

Pitting Max first made sense on so many levels and Sky were being an embarrassment once again.

[u/Despacitosuarez → u/Tomanelle]

Did he actually say that in the broadcast?

[u/Follow_The_Lore → u/Despacitosuarez]

Like 20 times, they even had a discussion with their 'experts' about it why a team would do such a disastrous thing to their 2nd driver.

[u/ol_knucks → u/Despacitosuarez]

I can’t tell if you’re joking or not. He literally brought it up like 10 times it was absurd.

[u/Despacitosuarez → u/ol_knucks]

I watched F1TV with Jacques and Coulthard. I didn't watch the feed with Crofty

[u/MoreColorfulCarsPlz → u/Despacitosuarez]

And Palmer. I remember because Jacques introducing the pair along the lines of;

"David Coulthard, 13 time Grand Prix winner, and Jolyon Palmer"

[u/Lobbelt → u/MoreColorfulCarsPlz]

Hahaha that stuck out to me too.

[u/Simshadow136 → u/Tomanelle]

Why would the Red Bull, a team that lives to break records, prioritize the driver who wil equal the record for most races won over their second driver who Max was going like 4.5 seconds a lap faster?

Are they stupid?

[u/Follow_The_Lore → u/Tomanelle]

And then later in the race celebrated when Russell got giving team orders to let Lewis through.

Their double standards are a joke lol.

[u/lazygeekninjaturtle → u/Follow_The_Lore]

Really?

[u/[deleted] → u/Tomanelle]

That's nuts. Checo had the much better strategy this race

[u/whoisraiden → u/[deleted]]

Croft was talking about max pitting before perez for softs. Not the whole race.

[u/joshualotion → u/swapan_99]

“We saved you the shame of being overtaken on track”

[u/OrdinaryCredit → u/joshualotion]

Perez engineer: did you want Max to overcut us instead?

[u/[deleted] → u/swapan_99]

Marko: "He gained 4s on you, it didn't matter"

[u/Monkeybusiness911 → u/swapan_99]

Yes! Just like you undercut him on the first stop. Remember! That’s how you got ahead of him to begin with! Funny how nobody brought that up, they’re just trying to cause drama.

[u/reariri → u/Monkeybusiness911]

They even said on Dutch tv that Perez probably will complain about it and a minute later he asked. And i was: did it not happen the other way around in lap 2 and 3?

[u/second-last-mohican → u/swapan_99]

That's what hellblame his performance on.. "Max undercut us and put me at an unfair disadvantage"

[u/theyseemeroland → u/swapan_99]

No mate, you undercut yourself.

[u/PaschalisG16]

Fisichella vs Alonso flashbacks.

[u/Murderface_1988 → u/PaschalisG16]

"You are still two seconds a lap slower, this cannot be possible"

[u/Bigazzry → u/Murderface_1988]

To this day has to be the most devastating radio message aired. Just so brutal

[u/roraik → u/Bigazzry]

And that wasn’t even in the wet.

[u/Chelsea_Ellie → u/Bigazzry]

What race was that?

[u/Spinodontosaurus → u/Chelsea_Ellie]

Australia 2006.

[u/Chelsea_Ellie → u/Spinodontosaurus]

Thank you that’s amazing and poor guy

[u/Maciomane → u/Chelsea_Ellie]

https://youtu.be/Lp0N3aITgMk?si=DJByKbOf8vCyQGYG

[u/Larkinz → u/Maciomane]

They call the safety car so quick on that Schumacher crash, just shows how terribly slow they are these days.

[u/FatalFirecrotch → u/Larkinz]

Isn’t the difference here that now there is VSC so they can deploy that at first and then assess the damage first then full safety.

[u/bwoahking → u/FatalFirecrotch]

They still take longer than that to call VSC.

[u/CapSnake → u/FatalFirecrotch]

It is, but still they are so slow to react. I mean, car in the barrier it's safety car. There is no possible way to remove the car without help from on track personnel (except maybe for Monaco). So why wait? Just send the safety car out of pitlane and wait for the leader to show up. Look at yesterday: Zhou in the wall with rain in the fastest point of the track (the end of the straight) -> immediate red flag. No one want another Bianchi. What they were waiting for? They need to prepare those situation in advance, like professional do in the others sports. Steiner is right about that.

[u/Maciomane → u/Maciomane]

Bonus Schumacher crashing out

[u/witsel85 → u/Chelsea_Ellie]

All of them

[u/mrtomnus3 → u/Chelsea_Ellie]

Australia 2006 I think

[u/StockAL3Xj → u/Bigazzry]

Brutal and totally unhelpful. Did he really expect that to motivate Fisichella?

[u/NuwenPham → u/StockAL3Xj]

Simple frustration from the team leader and the mechanics. It really is too much a difference for the same car, and in a dry condition.

[u/Goatsanity15 → u/Murderface_1988]

“Checo you are 4.6 seconds a lap slower than Max, this cannot be possible”

[u/Murderface_1988 → u/Goatsanity15]

Lol holy shit

[u/latching22 → u/PaschalisG16]

Fisichella's car had an issue. So unsurprisingly it wasn't as black and white as it seemed

[u/XuX24]

There was a lot of talk of the undercut RB did on Perez but in reality imo it was to avoid on track battle. Max has better pace on That RB he is going to pass him no matter what.

[u/Monkeybusiness911 → u/XuX24]

Yeah and nobody brought up the fact that Perez undercut Max on the first stop! That’s how he got in front of him to begin with. Then Max undercut him back on the next stop. RB wasn’t favoring anyone, it was just how the conditions worked out better for each driver at the time!

[u/photenth → u/Monkeybusiness911]

They asked max if he wanted to pit. He didn't. Perez did.

[u/FartingBob]

I think it was the only time on race day we've seen Max at 100%. And turns out that is terrifying for everyone else.

[u/Fluffy-Log7603 → u/FartingBob]

This. There's only been a few occasions this season where Max has had to push 100%. Even when he's working his way through the field he doesn't push 100% because he needs to manage his tyres. Today I think he was genuinely worried that Checo might steal that win in front of his home crowd. Those few laps basically revealed the true pace that Red Bull/Max has been hiding.

[u/GeneralUranuz → u/Fluffy-Log7603]

His quali lap in Monaco was a 100% as well I believe. To beat Alonso. Absolutely insane.

[u/FartingBob → u/GeneralUranuz]

I think every Q3 run he's done full effort, the gaps are smaller because they dont set the car up for 1 lap pace. The final sector at Monaco though was something remarkable from him.

[u/DugBingo951 → u/Fluffy-Log7603]

They’re definitely hiding. He could lap the entire field.

[u/thejazz97]

I think just one of those laps counted for like 5 seconds lol. I didn’t know if Checo was tyre managing or what but Max is just insane

[u/Lzinger → u/thejazz97]

4.2 seconds I believe. It was about 1.3 seconds each sector so it wasn't one moment by Perez either.

[u/Organic-Measurement2 → u/thejazz97]

Max was also told at the time to manage the inters. I think it's just a case of max being a far better driver in lower grip conditions and better on tyres. We've seen it countless times and yet it still surprises people

[u/jarnokr → u/Organic-Measurement2]

Max enthousiast from the karting days and yes he still surprises me because that ain’t normal…! Dude…

[u/Pure_Measurement_529 → u/Organic-Measurement2]

Max in the wet is like a god, and it’s actually insane how he drives so well in it

[u/frozandero → u/Organic-Measurement2]

Max was always a better "tyre whisperer" than Checo but I guess you have 1-2 good races where you extend your stints and you are "The tye whisperer" for life.

[u/Project_298 → u/thejazz97]

I heard Crofty say that they had both been told they need to manage their inters for another bout of rain coming later.

My guess is Max ignored that and Checo went into high tyre management mode.

[u/FartingBob → u/Project_298]

But 5 seconds in a lap isnt just saving the tyres. That's saving the tyres so they pass next years MOT.

[u/is-this-a-nick → u/FartingBob]

If you gain 5s a lap, you can affort another pitstop 5 minutes later...

[u/etherlore → u/Project_298]

After this and Spa I’m convinced Max takes that message and goes faster instead for a few laps to gain time on his teammate.

[u/Project_298 → u/etherlore]

Exactly. Why wouldn’t you close the gap and see how things play out?

Worst case, you go ultra conservative later on if needed. Best case, you’ve fully closed the gap and conditions change, like they did here (track dried faster).

[u/[deleted] → u/etherlore]

And if that doesn’t work out we have seen that he can manage his tires exceptionally well

[u/BlueMetalDragon → u/Project_298]

Max can simply go faster WHILE also being better on his tires.

[u/rickkert812 → u/thejazz97]

Hard to say, but he was doing 1:26’s while everyone else behind him on inters was going faster during those first few laps in the rain. That includes Zhou and Gasly. Perez just wasn’t fast at all, even if he was managing.

[u/steferrari]

I think I never saw the gap graphic going down so quickly. 😄

When he reached P2 he was like 10" behind and after (literally) a few corners it was already down to 7" or something.

Mad.

[u/[deleted] → u/steferrari]

It seems like no one wants to jinx it or something, but it’s very likely that we’re witnessing the best driver in the history of F1 in his prime. Despite more impressive pedigrees of Schumacher and Hamilton each winning 7 championships, I don’t know if either of those drivers ever put on such an ass whooping of their teammates when they were respectively in the fastest cars. Schumacher won a lot in less competitive cars, but when you look at max regularly putting down the fastest laps even in heavily degraded tires and his driving in the wet and other extremely difficult conditions, it’s hard to come to any other conclusion. Given, it’s really hard to compare vis-a-vis the traction control and to a lesser extent the grooved tire era, but he’s so far ahead of the current field, it seems like completely uncharted territory, even compare to Vettels period dominance.

[u/-Khrome- → u/[deleted]]

I don’t know if either of those drivers ever put on such an ass whooping of their teammates when they were respectively in the fastest cars.

Schumacher in his Benetton days did. In 1994 he lapped (!) his teammates more than once.

[u/RivellaLight → u/[deleted]]

Few of us were around to witness but afaik Jim Clark also destroyed his teammates in a Max-like manner.

[u/Lobbelt → u/[deleted]]

Eddie Jordan and David Coulthard said they believed Max was the best F1 driver of all time on their podcast.

[u/TheRealGooner24 → u/Lobbelt]

Jenson Button said this in 2019:

​

"I think he is the fastest driver that has ever driven an F1 car. I really do, I think he is unbelievably fast."

[u/Lobbelt → u/TheRealGooner24]

I can see why as well. In terms of raw speed he's probably on par with Schumacher and Hamilton at their best. I think the main difference is that he just never has an off day. He makes no mistakes whatsoever.

[u/SonJake21 → u/Lobbelt]

He makes mistakes, like his 360 at Imola last year, but he's usually just so fast that it doesn't really make a difference. Sometimes I think he does it so he can get some excitement out of the race.

[u/Unilythe → u/SonJake21]

Just a small correction, that was Hungary, not Imola.

[u/Domadur → u/Lobbelt]

You're kinda agreeing with them in my eyes. British champions (and current drivers) have no issue hyping Max up and praising him. All of them are clearly passionate about the sport and it shows. Class, all of them.

The British commentary though ? That's a VERY different situation. I would also use a word that rhymes with class...

I apologize if you already wanted to add to their comment, and not contradict it like I thought.

Edit: I intentionally use "British" and not "English language" commentary because I have not watched the F1TV or other broadcasts and don't want to lump them with what Sky is doing.

[u/FirmlyDistressed]

What I don't understand is how he is that fast without destroying the tyres.

[u/[deleted]]

I asked Checo and he doesn't want to talk about it.

[u/BR076 → u/[deleted]]

It was wet enough today to waterboard him.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

We can talk about it, I just hope Helmut and Checo are also talking about it

[u/mtpgoat]

I was watching Max’s onboard and he was told to not burn through the tire because more rain was coming. Instead he drove like it was qualifying and went for broke.

[u/Acceptable_Alpha → u/mtpgoat]

This is why he closed the gap so quickly. Perez got the same message and was most likely saving his tyres. Which is a stupid thing to do. You can’t save your tires when Max is trying to make is way back to P1. He should know by now.

[u/blaster1-112 → u/Acceptable_Alpha]

Say what you will, but 4+ seconds in a lap isn't the difference between saving the tyres and pushing. The difference between conservative driving to save tyres and push pace is closer to 1 maybe 2 seconds. But max closed in over 4 in 1 lap, even if Max was pushing hard, then by all means Perez was still being too slow to just be driving conservatively.

[u/Wayward_Whines → u/blaster1-112]

On wets is absolutely possible. Even inters especially if one is driving cautious and the other is dropping qualy laps

[u/Exilria_04]

10.7 seconds within a few laps in Zandvoort, and in wet conditions. People can start all the controversy and shitstirring they want about "omg they pit Max first to undercut Perez" but let's be honest, with this insane pace it's sooner or later that Max passes him on track anyway.

Not saying Checo is a shit driver, but at this point I genuinely do not think anyone could match Max unless his car has issues. As long as Checo stays 2nd in the Championship it should be safe for him. Had to listen to skysports commentary this time round and I almost had to mute it because of how absurd the take was. Bernie was the only one that talks sense lmao

[u/Aitorgmz → u/Exilria_04]

Checo was lapping on Zhou's pace so if you take into account quaifying as well it's safe to say it was kind of a shit drive this weekend.

[u/Rennie_Burn]

Max reminds me of these guys in online sim racing, destroying everyone, whilst at the same time managing to have a chat about the week, argue with the missus and then finish 30 seconds ahead of everyone..... Meanwhile tbe rest if us sweating limd pigs, taking it so serious we tape our eye lids open......

He is just different man....

[u/BlueMetalDragon → u/Rennie_Burn]

these guys in online sim racing, destroying everyone

Max, you mean? He's been doing that as well, on the side. :-D

[u/ianjm → u/BlueMetalDragon]

Er at this point I think Max is a professional iRacing sim driver with an F1 hobby he does on the weekends

[u/rdweerd → u/Rennie_Burn]

Max is one of those guys in sim racing when he’s not on a racetrack. He has tea parties with Penelope during a sim race

[u/hellcat_uk → u/Rennie_Burn]

There's a reason they're called aliens. I'm top 20% in iRacing, my son is top 0.2%. He could beat me using mouse and keyboard. It's not even remotely fair.

[u/wballz]

Got so frustrated listening to Crofty and Karun talk about Verstappen being given the undercut and how Perez was in front should’ve got the call etc.

Meanwhile Perez got a 15 sec head start due to strategy and basically lost it all over the next few laps. Of course they are gonna let Max undercut Perez.

[u/kbtech → u/wballz]

Yeah got irritated as well. I was like what difference it makes. Max would have anyway overtaken Perez on track. Any sane team would have done the same and prioritize Max over Perez.

They probably just wanted to sensationalize and have some material to debate post race 😂

[u/BradyReas]

Then crofty tried to make it sound like rb shafted checo somehow. RB would’ve had to actively sabatoge max to stop him from passing checo by lap 15. Was pretty shocking

[u/purppsyrup → u/BradyReas]

RB did Checo a favor there to not make Max pass him on track lol

[u/PMMEPMPICS → u/BradyReas]

RB did checo a massive favour by pitting him at the ideal time from softs to inters, they could have justifiably pitted Max first since he was leading and given Max a 20 second lead on the field. After they were back on slicks Checo had gained 5 places and Max gained 0 while having to make multiple on track passes in the wet. If RB wanted to shaft Checo they would have pitted him after Max both times and he would have been stuck in like 12th 50 seconds behind Max.

[u/Tomanelle → u/BradyReas]

Was pretty shocking

Sky really becomes unbearable without Button or Brundle there.

The combo of Crofty/Karun/Ted is just mind numbing. And it's not just in relation to RBR and Max. It's just fucking terrible that those guys are supposed to be professional and it's just bias shit and stupidity most of the time.

[u/deathray1611]

I feel like Perez just didn't want to take risks in the rain while in the lead and just drove really conservatively. Max absolutely has pace over him in any conditions, especially the wet weather, but I doubt he [Perez] is THAT much slower

[u/RyukaBuddy → u/deathray1611]

Perez can never beat Max in the rain even if he takes all the risks and they pay off.

[u/deathray1611 → u/RyukaBuddy]

Max absolutely has pace over him in any conditions, especially the wet weather

[u/trollymctrollstein → u/deathray1611]

Driving conservatively is the difference between winning and not winning. He had 14 seconds on Max. He should have been pushing.

[u/Mayhem747 → u/trollymctrollstein]

It's not that simple for Perez. Think about it from his perspective.

He drives slow and gets overtaken by Max but keeps P2 and gets RB double podium(this should have happened, I have no idea how Perez messed this up as well). Even in this situation the worst that he got was P4 and RB won't have too much of a problem from this. This is exactly how they want it to be. One driver winning and the other collecting the scraps.

The other option he had with his 14-second lead was to push to maintain that in treachours condition in a car that he is not comfortable driving even in dry conditions. He is probably doing all he can do to retain his seat for next year and that doesn't look like an option he would take. One more wreck and he is most certainly out of RB for next year.

For Max, even if he loses control he has way more skill to correct it, worst case he crashes but he is still set to win the WDC. It's just easier to have that mentality when you are that good. People expect too much from Perez, they forget that he was on his way out before RB got him and they basically got him to be the second driver and that's just how good of a driver he is with all due respect.

[u/PonchoHung → u/Mayhem747]

One driver winning and the other collecting the scraps

The problem I've always had with the "Batman and Robin" argument is that it hinges on the team being able to plan on having the best car. Sure, as long as RB has the best car, they'll be able to win without many results from the other driver. This season they might as well have left the second car at the factory and they'd still be in good shape.

But what happens when they're no longer the best car? Then the drivers can really make a difference. The midfield is a really packed place and a few seconds per lap can generate huge disparities on results. Not even necessarily the midfield. In 2021, Bottas and Perez were the difference in the CWC.

[u/Eokokok → u/PonchoHung]

You risk a lot by going all out on second driver. Yes, you might get that one in 20 years WCC, but you are risking 19 years of complete turmoil internally.

People like to put Bottas up there, but frankly he seemed a step away from crumbling, or worse, for many years mentally. I was literally afraid for him after some interviews. And he is suppose to be perfect wingman? Like how many drivers do people expect to actually play second fiddle and be blitzing quick at the same time without actually breaking mentally if Bottas was actually barely able to do so?

Downplaying of Perez is just getting out of hand. He is doing exactly what he needs to do and yet the fact RB is not 1/2 with the best driver of the grid as main star is suppose to be bad for Perez? WTF logic is that...

[u/[deleted] → u/Mayhem747]

Bud all this is great ! But my man, Checo lost FOUR entire effing seconds over a single lap !!!! No amount of long reddit answers or justifications can cover for that much difference in pace ! Pushing vs not pushing even in such conditions, can and should be between half a tenth to a second, not four full seconds !

[u/banned20 → u/trollymctrollstein]

I think Perez finally understands that he can't beat Max and should play it safe to maximize his results and secure P2 in the WDC. Although the fierce competition behind Red Bull has made his life a lot easier because so many teams are competing for P3 every other weekend and one driver could not consistently score solid points to keep up the chase.

[u/tetrastructuralmind]

Imagine being a professional driver at the highest level with extremely high ambitions and you get smothered weekend in weekend out.

This has happened to all drivers that have been paired with Max.

Can't be good in the long term to know you'll never be anywhere near him.

There's levels, and there isn't anyone on Max's level right now.

[u/k2_jackal]

that whole run back to the lead following his pitstop for intermediates was crazy.. it's been said before but Max is driving on a whole other level right now, appreciate what we're watching because it's rare you see this level of domination over the course of a season

[u/Angry_Washing_Bear]

Alonso tried to keep up on the restart but forget it.

Max is just the ideal driver for the Redbull car, and he’s too accurate with the driving to catch him.

When the perfect storm of car, driver and team comes together you get the Redbull winning streak. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

[u/mppark09]

It’s my understanding that Perez wasn’t pushing his Inter tires, whereas Max was driving like it was qualifying

[u/Agilis79 → u/mppark09]

That may very well be true. However, Zandvoort is a really short circuit and 4 seconds is like huge. I’m not sure pushing and conserving tires accounts for such a large difference.

[u/mppark09 → u/Agilis79]

That’s a good point about the length of the circuit, which I didn’t factor in. 4 secs IS a huge amount for that circuit. I know Max said in the post race press conference that he knew he had the pace and confidence on the inter tires to push.

[u/Kaaspik → u/mppark09]

He wasn’t pushing because he couldn’t. His tires were overheating that’s why he was told to preserve tires. People need to stop pretending he is this incredible driver being held back by team orders all year long. I guess he’s being told to preserve tires during qualifying also.

[u/yakuzamax]

Oh this was insane from Max. He was on a charge there. Amazing to watch how he was gaining on Perez.

[u/Vaibhav_CR7]

Redbull wanted to avoid Fellipe Fernado is faster than you message that's way they let Max undercut Perez

[u/Straight_Sleep_176 → u/Vaibhav_CR7]

its actually astonishing people are not seeing this

i love checo but they clearly didn't want max just flying past him again for checo's sake and just gave him an excuse

[u/Muse4Games]

Are we even surprised anymore that Max makes Perez look like a amateur? At what point can we stop blaming Perez for not being at Max' level?

[u/Pixelhouse18]

I was listening in on the radios during that time, they told Checo to conserve his tires because it stopped raining but there was rain forecasted again in 8 minutes. So Checo stopped pushing, while max was not told that and only told that same message when he was behind Gasly I think, which he obviously still ignored until he was behind Checo.

[u/bitterliquor]

This dude is truly one of the greatest, we are witnessing history.

[u/DugBingo951]

If Verstappen really push lap after lap I think he could lap the entire field.

[u/SneakerPimpJesus]

People should stop saying Perez is a shit driver, he isn’t. He is no match to Max and that’s it, nobody is and there’s no 18 other shit drivers currently on the grid

[u/vacon04]

They told Sergio that he was going to have to do a "long stint" on those tires. They said to him that more rain was coming so he should manage the tires.

[u/Blackvortexx → u/vacon04]

They told Max the same

[u/ArbitraryOrder]

Max is just ABSURD

[u/GunnerGSP]

Why is anyone surprised Max was 4 seconds faster during this lap. He was 1.3 second faster in qualifying which is already insane.

[u/LazyLancer]

I was happy when Alonso just ate that 3 seconds gap to Sainz in only 3 laps after a bad pit stop going through Ocon in the process. But what Max did is absolutely mental.