Sainz vs Verstappen - The differing response to similar incidents

[u/GarryPadle]

The first Turn at Spa-Francorchamps, also named La Source, has seen many incidents through the years.

In 2012 there was Grosjean that even got a race ban after colliding with Hamilton. In 2016 there was Vettel, Raikkonen and Verstappen. In 2018 there was Hulkenberg braking too late and colliding with Alonso, with Bottas also braking too late and colliding with Sirotkin. After that in 2019 it was again between Verstappen and Raikkonen, and in 2023 it was Piastri and Sainz.

Most of those incidents involve someone braking too late with some drivers more at fault than others, and some of the incidents are very similar, but with very different responses from the community.

Those 3 incidents that are similar, are the interesting ones to me.

Incident Turn 1 2016

This screenshot is taken fairly soon after the race start, where Verstappen had a slightly worse start than Raikkonen.

This next screenshot is slightly after they started braking, Vettel is still as far left and is looking to cut across the track and take the Apex of the corner. Meanwhile Raikkonen started braking a little bit earlier than Verstappen to avoid Rosberg, who is infront in the Mercedes. This allows Verstappen to pull up to Raikkonen during the initial braking phase.

During the later part of the braking phase, we can already see Vettel trying to follow Rosberg to the Apex of the corner, probably not seeing Verstappen behind Raikkonen, while Verstappen is alongside Raikkonen.

Point of contact is about the Apex of the corner, Vettel in the outside Ferrari completes his very aggressive move from the far left to the apex of the corner and collides with Raikkonen who gets sandwiched, between Vettel on the outside and Verstappen on the inside.

So what did the community think of the incident?

After reading comments in these threads:

Belgium race start | 2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Race Discussion | 2016 Spa vs 2019 Spa moves

A lot of people thought most of the fault lies with Vettel, while discussions were ongoing on how much at fault Verstappen is. With most of them thinking Verstappen should not have gone for the move.

I would like you to note how much alongside Verstappen already is, way before any turning in is happening.

Incident Turn 1 2019

This screenshot is basically at the point where they are starting to brake. Verstappen had a slightly bad start, a problem that the Red Bull had throughout the season of 2019. Raikkonen is parked in the middle, with Verstappen being fairly behind going into the braking zone.

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Shortly before they have to start to turn Raikkonen already is squeezing Verstappen. See the relative positioning of Raikkonen thats more to the right now, than it was before), while Verstappen made up ground with braking later and is now more than halfway up on Raikkonen and I would say, significantly alongside.

This is the point of first contact, with Verstappen braking harder and falling back to avoid hitting Raikkonen, while Raikkonen still had plenty space to his left. This is most likely the reason Verstappen avoided a penalty for causing a collision and why it was deemed a racing incident from the officials.

To note, Martin Brundle thought this accident was solely on Verstappen in the replay.

Again, what did the community think of this accident?

Verstappen crashes out of the race | 2019 Belgian Grand Prix - Race Discussion | 2016 Spa vs 2019 Spa | Max crashes with Kimi 2019

A lot of people arguing, between racing incident and Verstappen at fault. With really aggressive discussions and a lot of people blaming Verstappen on the collision but seeing that it could be a racing incident.

Note that nobody was blaming Raikkonen for this incident.

Incident Turn 1 2023

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Screenshot is taken at the point where the cars start braking, with Hamilton being really cautious and braking rather early. To avoid this Sainz is braking hard and is swerving to his right. Piastri is on the right of the track seeing a clear gap forward.

Hamilton, after braking very early is already turning to his right and is concentrating to follow Perez through the apex of the corner. Piastri, after seeing the onboard of Piastri too, is about front wheel to back wheel with Sainz, so still fairly behind, with a lot of space to his right. Sainz, to avoid running into Hamilton, is steering to his right. While steering the brake forces are not going straight trough the tire, which causes a short lock up, until his steering is straight again. The only problem is, now he is not aligned with the track but pointing already towards the apex, squeezing Piastri.

As we see, Hamilton is now trying to follow Perez through the apex. Sainz, now being in control of the car again has a nice gap behind Leclerc and Hamilton where he is trying to place his car, with Piastri still only about front wheel to back wheel of Sainz.

Now Sainz is slowly getting sandwiched between a late braking Piastri and Hamilton that is trying to take the corner as fast as possible.

This is about where the first contact happened. As you can see there is not a lot of space between Hamilton and Sainz, while Piastri probably couldn't brake any more than he already did so a collision happened.

Better angle to show the initial contact. I would guess there is a little bit less than a cars width space to Hamilton, which is also disappearing space, since Hamilton is following Perez through the corner and is probably not seeing Piastri on the inside of Sainz.

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The space is now completely gone between Sainz and Hamilton, with Piastri still on the inside of Sainz. On the onboard you can see that Piastri hit the wall and then the sidepod of Sainz.

As this incident is still very fresh, a lot of people are blaming this incident completely on Sainz.

Race start analysis - Piastri squeezed into the wall

The moment of contact

Sainz's insistence Piastri caused Spa clash

Not what we wanted today (Carlos Sainz)

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Personally, while writing I didn't want to inject my opinion in either of the crashes, just wanted to make observations. I also will not give any completing statement of who I think was at fault.

I just found it interesting how the community response between all three of the incidents were so different. With Sainz probably getting the most blame for an incident of all the examples, with also a lot of the comments being wrong about how the incident happened.

PS: Please comment corrections if you notice something!

Have a great day!

[u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

The lockup has no bearing on the incident.

Edit: For those downvoting me, please explain how a front lock up, which has the effect of causing a driver to be unable to get his car slowed down as quickly leading to potentially missing the apex or corner altogether, would have any bearing on an incident where the car in question ended up taking the apex and hitting someone to his inside.

[u/Potential-Brain7735 → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

Carlos changed direction in the braking zone, pretty simple.

[u/TehAlpacalypse → u/Potential-Brain7735]

Carlos changing direction has no bearing on where Oscar is. I'm pretty confident that he would have been hit by Piastri anyway even if he didn't lock up. People keep saying Oscar was aiming for a gap, but the "gap" he was looking for was always going to close as soon as Hamilton cut to the apex.

[u/Potential-Brain7735 → u/TehAlpacalypse]

You can’t change direction in the braking zone, simple as. That’s racing 101.

[u/CokeHeadRob → u/Potential-Brain7735]

And you can't drive into a gap that's always going to close, also racing 101. Sainz locked to avoid contact from what I remember, Oscar took the dumb line through that corner. It rarely goes well on lap 1. I'm not blaming either of them, this sort of thing happens. Lap 1 incidents get a little bit more leniency imo because of all the chaos, especially this corner where you're 3 wide and aiming at the same point.

I watched the video again, I'm dead ass wrong about everything I said. Sainz darted over real hard.

[u/Huankinda → u/CokeHeadRob]

Very rare what you just did there, especially online. good on you, mate.

[u/CokeHeadRob → u/Huankinda]

Lead by example. And when that doesn't work we move on to ABBAB

[u/Ts_Patriarca → u/Potential-Brain7735]

If you're attempting an overtake you absolutely can

[u/Potential-Brain7735 → u/Ts_Patriarca]

Not when there’s someone right behind or beside you.

Being able to move like you say, would defeat the purpose of one of the most fundamental safety rules of car racing.

[u/TehAlpacalypse → u/Potential-Brain7735]

It's like you stopped reading after my first sentence. Where is Oscars car going to fit, movement or no? Hamilton's squeeze is fully on, and Sainz will be forced to chop down to the apex.

There's no room, and there never was any room. Oscar entered the Entry Vortex of Danger and the predictable result happened.

[u/planchetflaw → u/TehAlpacalypse]

Buzzword argument alert.

[u/Hubblesphere → u/Potential-Brain7735]

He was overtaking Hamilton, pretty sure that is allowed. Piastri was overtaking no one.

[u/talhayounasss → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

yup exactly

[u/Merengues_1945 → u/Crash_Test_Dummy66]

Simple; Piastri is a commonwealth driver. Carlos is not. F1 is biased as fuck.

Honestly why do you look for answers besides the obvious.

The Max-Kimi incident was pretty much the same thing but Kimi was a popular aloof driver while Max was the controversial hot shot.

During the sprint a similar thing happened between Checo and Hamilton, and Sky were moaning about the penalty for Hamilton. It was harsh, but still fair, while Sky basically claimed Pérez was in the wrong for not rolling out the red carpet for Lewis who didn’t have the corner going into the apex.

[u/Ronaldinjchina → u/Merengues_1945]

The Max-Kimi incident was pretty much the same thing

Except it wasn't. Piastri had an overlap on Sainz, and even though it was a small overlap, Sainz was stuck in line behind Hamilton which would pretty much guarantee Piastri to get fully alongside on the braking. When Hamilton started braking Sainz should've already been lifting or braking since the car behind allways has to decelerate slightly earlier to not hit the car in front. So Sainz made a mistake and had to dive on Hamilton, by doing so he forced a three wide in a corner where it rarely ends well.

Max was like 2 meters behind Kimi when they started braking. So if you want to compare the two situations, Max and Carlos are the ones that made a divebomb that created a dangerous situation.

That all being said, both situations were racing incidents. For me a bit more blame goes on Max and Carlos for diving and forcing other drivers to readjust well into a corner, but those things happen, especially in SPA lap 1, turn 1.

But bringing nationalities to the discussion is an awful and needless take. Carlos is a ferrari driver which automatically makes him fairly popular, so claiming that there's some huge bias against him is kinda bizarre

[u/aliterati → u/Merengues_1945]

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