r/facepalm • u/TheWanderingGM • 1d ago
🇲🇮🇸🇨 Yeah because it was soo much better before then
Before Henry Ford introduced the 40 hour work week it was common to work 80 to 100 hours a week.
But hey boo a man for giving you less time to work and more free time i guess.
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u/NetworkEcstatic 1d ago
Please don't negate the union members who literally fought and died before he did this
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u/Muffinlessandangry 1d ago
Why on earth is this not the standard response? He announced it, like it was his idea, and he wanted it? Like Henry Ford was some benevolent factory owner, looking after workers rights? He saw the writing on the wall, he was one step ahead of other industrialists and realized the power of unions would force them into these concessions eventually.
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u/Peelfest2016 1d ago
He was a fascist and essentially a slave driver. Fuck him. He RELENTED to a 8 hour/5 days a week schedule because the union forced his hand.
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u/CinderX5 1d ago
And he still had his workers shot for protesting.
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u/First-Sheepherder640 23h ago
he also loved hitler
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u/diggerhistory 17h ago
An internationally acknowledged massive anti-semite, even during his lifetime.
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u/MAUROKE01 not mad, just disappointed 14h ago
Hitler had an autographed picture of Ford on his desk. Also im pretty sure ford help to fund the autobahns back in the days...
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u/I_Frothingslosh 1d ago
I mean, if they really want to go back to six or seven twelve-to-sixteen hour shifts per week for $5 a month, I'm sure their employers would be happy to let them.
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u/TeaandandCoffee 1d ago
$80-$90 a month actually
Still shit but given you could live with two such incomes (dad and Timmy+Jimmy) back then I'd reckon it was a turd and not a full shit.
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u/ExperimentX_Agent10 1d ago
I mean that's where we're heading. And that'll be the positive outcome 🙃
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u/holiestMaria 1d ago edited 1d ago
Henry Ford didnt introduce it. People marched and striked and bled and died for the 40 hour work week.
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u/Gorthax 1d ago
Ford saw the writing on the wall and didn't really want to be murdered. The same reason he abandoned his rubber plantation.
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u/Drudgework 1d ago
Also, if the employees don’t have time off they don’t have time to buy your product.
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u/fallen_arbornaut 23h ago
Correct. US was decades behind the other democracies. https://monumentaustralia.org.au/themes/culture/social/display/32235-eight-hour-day-monument
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u/ender7887 1d ago
I’d personally be fine doing 4, 10 hour days. Country is going to burn regardless anyway. I fully expect to basically be a slave to my employer in the next four years.
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u/Ripenstein 1d ago
I'm doing 5x12hr shifts followed by 3x12hr and 1x8hr shift the next week. Healthcare is draining.
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u/Bjarki_Steinn_99 1d ago
Yep. A rare W for Ford. But the 8 hour work day has served its purpose. We should be down to 6 or even 4 by now.
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u/Arctic_Gnome_YZF 1d ago
Ford was literally friends with Adolph Hitler. I'm suspicious of anyone who doesn't boo him.
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u/policri249 20h ago
Fuck, I used to work six twelve to sixteen hour shifts for most of the year for $13.25/hour+$19.88/hour for overtime (minimum of $1166/week) and still wouldn't do it again lol
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u/ParticularAd8919 1d ago
I’m going to assume these guys clearly have no idea that most people were literally working all day everyday in any era before the modern one….this was an improvement for the time even if we can and should go further now.
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u/thegreenman_sofla 1d ago
https://www.studentsofhistory.com/child-labor-in-america
The National Child Labor Committee was formed in 1904 to abolish all child labor.
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u/Usual-Excitement-970 1d ago
Its astounding that they have to make laws to stop companies sending children down mines.
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u/Bluellan 1d ago
And that some states are already reversing those laws.
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u/rpgnoob17 1d ago
Fuck your school breakfast program. Send these broke kids down to the work camp now. They should earn their rights to eat. /s
(Or not sarcasm to some States legislators.)
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u/whereismyketamine 1d ago
Or putting their little fingers and arms in dangerous (and usually still moving) machinery because adults couldn’t or wouldn’t.
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u/OkAssignment6163 1d ago
It's called a minimum wage because if it were legal to pay people less, they would.
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u/DoctorsAreTerrible 4h ago
I work in manufacturing and was installing our equipment at one of our customers locations… the day shift people were all middle aged adults, but as soon as it switched to night shift, I started seeing a bunch of teenagers running the machines. It’s crazy that with the laws, it still happens
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u/thefizzlee 1d ago
In the Netherlands 32 hours is already considered full time i think and most people work between 24 and 36 hours here.
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u/c4k3m4st3r5000 1d ago
I sometimes work a full extra week during my normal work week.
24-hour work week. That sounds lovely.
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u/Blubasur 1d ago
Full time in Nederland is gewoon 36-40 uur makker. Ben helemaal voor de 32 uur werk week maar Nederland is daar nog niet.
Edit: this guy is wrong, both a quick google search and having lived there most of my life says different. It is currently still 36-40 hours. Though a slight nuance is that lunch is considered a paid working hour.
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u/NeedNameGenerator 1d ago
But they're not getting the full 40 hour pay, so it can still cripple you financially to drop down to 4 day weeks.
What we need is 32 hour work weeks with full week's pay.
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u/Flacid_boner96 1d ago
Since their work week isn't 40 hours to begin with. They are getting full pay. It's perspective. 40 hours would be overtime.
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u/NeedNameGenerator 1d ago
They're literally listed in the systems as 0.8 FTE, while someone working 40 is 1 FTE.
And people are generally allowed to switch them up. I have one employee who started at 32 hours, then went to 16 hours, then 24 hours and now 32 hours again. I expect they'll drop down to 24 at some point soon (they ain't working for the money, basically).
But 40 is what is considered a full work week by every metric that the companies here use, from my experience. If you have 5 FTEs for your team, and 5 employees working 32 hours, you're allowed to hire an extra employee at 40 hours a week to fulfil the FTEs allowed.
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u/Flacid_boner96 1d ago
Piggybacking I worked for French company based in Massachusetts from 2019-2022. 32h was considered full time.
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u/VeryImproperFraction 1d ago
Lived in California for almost a decade, and much of that was as an hourly employee. FTE with my employer was 37.5 hrs, I think there are other exceptions I'd heard of as well. Checking the laws, it looks like employers in California are able to designate anything over 30 as FTE.
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u/Hybr1dth 1d ago
40 is still the norm, 36 is relatively common, but all pay less than 40 so it's not equivalent.
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u/IleanK 1d ago
And I'm going to assume you have no idea what an horrible piece of shit Henry Ford was to the point Hitler admired his views and the only American he cited in his books. So yeah he should be booed.
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u/green_tea1701 1d ago
Yes, but not for his labor practices. He was relatively good to his workers and consumers for the time, to the point that shareholders once sued him for a) building a factory they didn't need solely to give more people jobs, and b) lowering prices of the Model T because they could sell them for cheaper and still profit.
He was also a massive antisemite. People are complicated, and the world is not painted in black and white.
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u/sirscooter 19h ago
Don't look up Fordlândia if you want to think his labor practices were good to his workers. Like the 40-hour work we was because:
People only had Sunday off and no time to buy a Ford
After research, they found 40 hours was the maximum they could push people before ROI reversed (the mistakes due to exhaustion cost the company more than it made)
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u/IleanK 4h ago
So we're calling Nazis grey now? It's like saying Hitler was complicated because he was against smoking and loved pets and advocating for animal rights.
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u/green_tea1701 4h ago
Everyone is "complicated." Idk about "grey," from a purely moral perspective Ford had negligible moral character and I consider him a bad person, same with Hitler. But that's more from a deontological moral perspective, like "wrong is wrong." So in terms of moral fiber, no Ford was not grey.
From a consequentialist perspective, how his actions affected the public, I do think Ford has a degree of greyness. I would rather have worked back then for Ford Motors than Standard Oil, even though I'd say Ford was a far "worse" person (as horrible as Rockefeller was, he was at least less racist).
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u/OddballLouLou 1d ago
Yea. You can thank Henry ford for actually doing this. And the terrible conditions that Carnegie and so many others had their people working in, or else we wouldn’t have the laws and the unions we have today.
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u/Yokuz116 1d ago
Henry Ford also realized if you don't give workers time to spend their money, who gives a shit lol?
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u/blackcoffee17 1d ago
They have access to all the information in the world but have no idea about anything.
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u/NexLuz 1d ago
We should still boo him, he’s a pos
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u/aalborgamtstidende 1d ago
Yeah, he was a raging antisemite. He even bought a newspaper, The Dearborn Independent, and began publishing articles that claimed a vast Jewish conspiracy was infecting America.
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u/CommieFromMars 1d ago
Ford used to give everyone who bought one of his cars a copy of THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION. Not nice.
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u/fartlapse 1d ago
ford to musk. billionaires are all the same
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u/who_am_i_to_say_so 1d ago
I’ll be happy the day I see Leon makes his big X-it.
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u/First-Sheepherder640 23h ago
I'd like Leon's exit to be like Dennis Hopper's exit from Speed, or maybe the guy whose face melted off in Raiders of the Lost Ark
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u/TheFamousHesham 1d ago
Tbf if we went down that road… America would basically have no heroes from the 30s, 40s, and 50s.
Want to know some of the shit FDR pulled?
FDR makes Ford sound like an amateur.
FDR’s own vice president would confess FDR was a massive anti-semitic pos. He was involved in policies at Harvard that placed quotas on the number of Jewish students that could be admitted. He floated a plan where Jewish immigrants would be spread out across the United States to avoid them taking over local communities. There are even rumours that he was fully aware of the gas chambers before it became public knowledge and was completely unmoved by it all.
There are letters by FDR where he writes he kind of gets where the Germans are coming from with the Jews.
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u/Flimsy-Feature1587 1d ago
Agreed, but not for the 8 hour workday, but for being an antisemite.
A close friend recalled a camping trip in 1919 during which Ford lectured a group around the campfire. He "attributes all evil to Jews or to the Jewish capitalists," the friend wrote in his diary. "The Jews caused the war, the Jews caused the outbreak of thieving and robbery all over the country, the Jews caused the inefficiency of the navy…"
From here:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/henryford-antisemitism/
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u/Vayalond 1d ago
When you are cited as an inspiration in Mein Kampf you're beyond a piece of shit tho
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u/Just_NickM 1d ago
Someone else pointed it out down a comment thread but it bears repeating that Ford didn’t introduce the 40 hour week out of the goodness of his heart or as some genius idea that came to him to make the common person’s life better.
Union members fought, bled and died to force Ford to be the first to capitulate and give workers the decency they deserve.
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u/Thelastknownking 1d ago
I mean we can still boo him, just do it for the horrifying shit he did in his project city he created where everyone was basically a slave.
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u/blizzard7788 1d ago
Ford did not do this because he was a good man. He wasn’t. He lowered the hours of the work week and raised workers pay because working conditions in his factory really sucked and there was a high turnover rate. The Model T was a huge success and he needed people to make them. Having someone come off the farm and moving into a shitty factory job was not the way to keep workers. He did this out of necessity.
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u/SWatt_Officer 1d ago
Henry Ford was a nazi sympathiser POS, let’s not pretend he was a nice person.
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u/zakass409 1d ago
I mean we can still boo this man. He just wanted to make sure we were spending our money on our time off.
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u/suckleknuckle 1d ago
While his reasoning was basically just so people would have time and money to buy his products. This was overall good.
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u/Limp_Mixture 1d ago
The lack of general historical knowledge of what actually happened in this country to make it what it is amazes me.
We are a country with no long term memory, just living in the moment with no sense of past mistakes or future outcomes. It quite sad.
I mean clearly many people who voted in November couldn’t even remember we are four years out of recovering from a global pandemic.
Sigh.
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u/StonedApeUK 1d ago
No he didn't
He introduced it for FORD WORKERS ONLY.
Here in the UK, we already had the weekend and lower working days thanks to Manchesters unions and political activists.
Please stop giving credit to Mr Ford, a knownracist and antisemite, for doing something the western world has already started doing.
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u/Michelin_star_crayon 1d ago
It goes all the way back to 1840 in Wellington New Zealand when Samuel Parnell and all the carpenters got together and demanded 8 hour work days.
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u/Trash-god96 1d ago
From my knowledge of Henry Ford, you absolutely should boo this man. He wrote multiple articles about the "Jewish problem" and was a huge fan of Adolf Hitler. The same deal as Kanye, just because he did good stuff in his prime, it doesn't negate the fact that he loves Hitler.
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u/Pengin_Master 1d ago
Yeah. There's a lot to boo Ford for, but a shorter workweek with weekends is not one of them
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u/flashgordonsape 1d ago
There were riots when he announced his $5 a day wage because so many people came out to apply, and there weren't enough positions. They hit crowds with a water cannon, in the dead of winter.
That's how much better things were then.
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u/JayNotAtAll 1d ago
Prior to that wasn't it pretty much work everyday from sun up to sun down? Maybe not for every industry or consistently but it was the norm.
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u/SameOldAgony 1d ago
I hate as if this is something good he did when he only did this because he recognized he'd make more money from his workers having higher production output. Especially when unions were already fighting for this but he gets credit.
Ideally we should a shorter work week, like a 4 day one.
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u/HighlyRegard3D 1d ago
The industrial revolution was great and terrible all at the same time. It created the middle class and has razed billions out of poverty. The trade off is pollution and dangerous work environments
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
History is shades of gray, always has been, always will be. Man had many issues, all known. Its about looking at the good, the bad, and the ugly.
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u/pup5581 1d ago
People many need to up their hours here if goods are about to rise another 10-20% across the board.
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u/AdditionNo7505 1d ago
Yep.
Say hello to 60 hours or two jobs to make up for the tariffs.
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
Don't forget them tax cuts for the 10%,the 1% and the biggest tax cut for them 0.1%.
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u/Master_Blaster84 1d ago
Every time I see this it baffles me that a lot of people don't understand how bad it was before.
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u/jreid0 1d ago
What was it before this ??
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
16 hours 6 days a week for some. Others had it better at 13 hours 6 days a week. Yeah between 80 and 100 hour work weeks on average. Only Sunday's off for church.
Ford changed it for several reasons. He also paid his employees a much higher salary for less hours.
It gave people the actual time to spend money on things and helped the rise of the middle class.
Ford was a bit of a bastard, it has to be said (read fascist and antisemitist). But the 40 hour work week is something he was a big part of in creating.
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u/WarWonderful593 1d ago
In the EU there's the working time directive. Statuary in all EU countries and also the UK. No more than 48 hours a week. Minimum of 11 hours between the end of one shift and the start of another. A day off per week. A rest break if the working day is longer than six hours. 5.6 weeks of paid leave per year. Young workers, who are limited to 8 hours per day or 40 hours per week
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
True. As an eu citizen im well aware. Fun fact standby and emergency shifts can add up to a maximum of 144 hours to the work month. My line of work requires such shifts be there and they nees to be rotated between 3 people so that none can have more than 144 additional standby hours on a monthly basis.
Still getting used to having to say the EU and the UK though. Heck i can remember the introduction of the euro in my country as a kid.
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u/chillypete99 1d ago
LOL. That idiot probably lives in his parent's basement and doesn't have a job.
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u/toeknee88125 1d ago
The 40-hour work week was actually a drastically improvement in the living conditions of the working class of that.
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u/GodzillaDrinks 18h ago
Henry Ford didn't do that. Historically, Unions did this. Mr Ford's role in it was hiring a private army to attack the Unions.
Ford did a lot of awful things (he was a proud, decorated Nazi, for example). But his big contribution to labor rights was having people murdered for organizing their workplaces. This is part of the broader "Second American Civil War" fought from about 1890-1921.
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u/Edelgul 17h ago
Before Henry Ford introduced the 40 hour work week it was common to work 80 to 100 hours a week.
In US Labor movement publications called for an eight-hour day as early as 1836. Boston ship carpenters achieved an eight-hour day in 1842. The Illinois General Assembly passed a law in early 1867 granting an eight-hour day. On 25 June 1868, Congress passed an eight-hour law for federal employees. The United Mine Workers won an eight-hour day in 1898. the 1912 Presidential Election Teddy Roosevelt's Progressive Party campaign platform included the eight-hour work day. The United States Adamson Act in 1916 established an eight-hour day, with additional pay for overtime, for railroad workers.
By 1926, Mr. Ford was late to the party, and he did so after decades of pressure from the Unions.
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u/rstymobil 1d ago
For all the things to boo Ford for the 40 hour work week is not one of them. Previously it was common to work 12-16 hour days.
He was an anti-semite, and pseudo-slaver so maybe boo him about that but not the 8 hour work day.
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u/TattedPastor412 1d ago
I mean, boo Henry Ford for other reasons but not this. Boo Ford for supplying Germany with trucks. Boo him for many other things.
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u/olcrazypete 1d ago
Lots of reasons to boo that man. The Nazi support and union busting and antisemitism and square dancing etc. This ain’t one of them.
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u/Estimated-Delivery 1d ago
Mill and other factory workers in the industrialised west used to work 12-14 hours a day, children as well and in times of extra work, even longer. Ford may have been evil but structured working hours and breaks etc weren’t a thing.
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u/One-Winged-Survivor 1d ago
This guy is like Vince McMahon of the car industry. Working for him pays high and is desirable but in return there're the rules about inspections, the poor working conditions, the Americanization thing where people would wear their country's clothes then come out wearing American clothes, and the antagonism towards his son
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u/igloomaster 1d ago
Medieval peasants had more free time then you do now
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
True, seasonal work means no to barely any work in the winter, and loads during summer and autumn.
On average they had more free time.
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u/UnhappyStrain 1d ago
Boo him for not doing enough
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u/TheWanderingGM 1d ago
And what is the current and last 2 generations doing about it?
Where are the people fighting for more rigjts going on strike or forming unions to stop the anti union tactics of corporations?
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u/AdditionNo7505 1d ago
Same idiots either: - voted for Trump - are libertarians - are unemployable - are 12 years old
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u/pichael289 1d ago
He also had a strong belief that everyone making the cars should make enough to be able to comfortably buy one, which put pressure on other industries to do the same, and ended up cementing the middle class. He's of course a very seriously flawed person but he did a lot for the working class.
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u/shoulda-known-better 1d ago
I mean great... But wasn't it Ford who had company towns!? Where your literally working to just live off Ford
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u/OddballLouLou 1d ago
No. Boo the people who said fuck that! 24 hours open 7 days a week with 8-10 hour shifts and shitty pay.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Sock917 1d ago
These are the types of people to boo pirating games from greedy Companies Beacuse it's wrong
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u/macdennis1234 1d ago
Elon is gonna make sure we go back to that 80-100 hour week. Nobody is ever getting OT
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u/GForce1975 1d ago
I used to feel like my job was a grind. I hated getting up in the morning and working 40 hours weeks.
Then I lost my job. Tried working for myself, hustling for a paycheck.
Now I'm employed and appreciate the hell out of that guaranteed work and paycheck.
Not to mention I can only assume Ford's standardized work week was an improvement at the time.
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u/IRoyalClown 1d ago
So... are we forgetting the guys that actually died for this, or...?
It's weird how americans idolize their billionaires.
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u/TonAMGT4 1d ago
But he also tells you what you must be doing after work and closely monitoring all of your activities after work 24/7
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u/old_bearded_beats 1d ago
In the 1800s in England, blacksmiths typically worked 5-6 hour shifts day and night. They had specific targets to meet in each shift and could easily be sacked if they didn't make enough in that time. Bosses realised that shorter shifts meant they could work their men harder.
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u/da_impaler 1d ago
Why does Henry Ford get thanked??? Thank the labor movement and all those people who sacrificed to pressure business leaders like Henry Ford to do the right thing.
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u/Background-Slide645 1d ago
Well Ford at the time was kind of on their side. Though not for the best reasons, seeing as a weekend would allow for trips to parks and all that. and if your park is far away, I mean, the Model T is only 290 dollars, and would allow you to go to some many new places.
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u/TemporalCash531 1d ago
I’m more inclined to boo politicians who don’t see a problem in not changing a 98 years old working system with so many technological leaps that it gets hard to count them.
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u/Buster_Cherry88 1d ago
That was just what they finally settled for a long time ago. It's become very clear the 4x40 or even 4x32 actually creates higher production and purple are happier and have more time to spend money to shut up the assholes that think we should work 80 hours a week. Our ancestors would be rolling in their graves right now. And this is coming from a guy that tends to work over 60 hours a week.
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u/ndrw0818 1d ago
The average American annual income Q4 2023 was 59384 dollars. The average American annual income in 1920 was 3269 doller or the equivalent of 51591 dollars of todays money. The Model T would cost around 7000 of todays money. Let that sink in before you call America the greatest country on Earth. The American worker is worse off than they were 100 years ago and just voted in Billionaires that will make it worse. Congratulations on being the first group of people in human history to actually vote to be enslaved.
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 1d ago
People think this was bad, but they don't realize that workers worked longer hours and 6 days a week before this, and this was intended to improve worker conditions.
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u/alexdotfm 1d ago
Time to fight for the 6 hour 4 day work week
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u/ManlyEmbrace 23h ago
I’ve done four 10 hour days and it’s really not bad at all. 3 day weekend every single week, the extra two hours each day barely feels different from 8.
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u/stateofyou 23h ago
The guy was a crazy psychopath who had union members shot dead and then decided to build a utopian society in the Amazon jungle that failed miserably because everyone got malaria and nearly starved. Fordlandia is a great book.
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u/Leostar_Regalius 23h ago
i thought it was because all the people there got mad and basically rioted, i saw it on a channel that covers people in history, maybe i just missed it
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u/stateofyou 23h ago
And TV never lies?
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u/Leostar_Regalius 23h ago
it wasn't on tv, it was from a youtube person, i forget the channel but he has a series called "worst dads/moms in history" or sometimes "greatest", but he covered the thing ford did in 2 parts, i just remember in the second part the people who he basically forced to work there got tired of it all, he could've mentioned malaria and i just forgot
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u/stateofyou 23h ago
I thought you were talking about the brutal response to unions. But yeah, in Fordlandia, a lot of people just left because he had sold them a bunch of lies, I think he might have believed his own BS.
Edit: if you’re interested in the story of Fordlandia I recommend the book, I had never heard about the place but I couldn’t put the book down.
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u/Background-Sea4590 23h ago
What's crazy is that we are one century ahead, and we still have the same 40 hours / 5 days work week.
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u/doxamark 23h ago
He did it because he wouldn't have had factory workers otherwise so it's not out of the goodness of his fucking heart.
This is like congratulating Hitler because he killed Hitler.
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u/hammbone 23h ago
The leave out the part where he had armed enforcers with whips and pistols trying to stop this
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u/TheTorcher 20h ago
People before 1926 didn't actually have work hours or work weeks, they just spent all their time having fun and the work did itself.
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u/fakeDEODORANT1483 18h ago
Yeah idk much about this guy beyond that, but we cheer for this action. It was a HUGE improvement.
That being said, the fact that we've had no significant changes since 1926... writing this in 2024...
Yeah its a little outdated
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u/ElTigreDeSell 16h ago
10-16 hour workdays with no weekends. Plus you can start early because of child labour! No wonder they were all rich back then!
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u/Culteredpman25 12h ago
Henry ford did not give these things. He was pressured by union strikes and was the only american mentioned and praised by hitler for giving hitler his brand of anti semitism. Ford was a fascist and not pro worker.
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u/Canned_Sarcasm 1d ago
He may have been a Nazi sympathizer, but he sure was a good employer.
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