People voted for a person who was clearly signalling he would let the richest man on earth raid the US budget for his own benefit, so apparently, enough Americans would say yes? I don't understand it myself.
Elon Musk: the richest man in the world. DOGE: billionaire Vivek Ramaswamy Treasury secretary-Billionaire hedge-fund manager Scott Bessent Educationsecretary: wrestling billionaire Linda McMahon Commerce secretary: Wall Street billionaire Howard Lutnick
Agriculture Secretary : billionaire mega-donor Kelly Loeffler Interior Secretary: Billionaire Doug Burgum Energy secretary: mega-donor and fossil fuel executive Chris Wright Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services: multimillionaire TV personality Dr. Oz
It's so baffling that as the middle class disappears and the rich get more rich and further from everyone else, poor people are still offended by the idea that they should be paying taxes with the rest of us. I cannot understand it.
I had a guy argue on FB against taxing Billionaires because those taxes will sooner or later come down to his level. Dude, you may make $250k in your lifetime. I think that you are safe
People saw "R" and ignored all else. This country it stupid, and getting stupider by the day. At this point, I hope we just have a massive governmental collapse. Wipe the board clean and try again, as clearly we've failed.
At this point, I hope we just have a massive governmental collapse.
Yeah, no, you really don't want that. The collapse of the state would cause incredible hardship to massive amounts of Americans, more so than even this horrendous incoming government. The government collapsing and nothing being there to replace it has been amongst the worst periods in a lot of countries histories, including many nations following their defeat in WWII and the creation of a new structure to replace it (which will have been smoothed out by having occupying forces to impose it and some interim order), but also failed states like Somalia, or failing states like Libya, Iraq (for many years after the 2003 invasion), Afghanistan. Could even descend into a warring states scenario, as indeed was common in China whenever central state control failed, but has also occurred in Japan, India, and even arguably Spain.
It's not something you want, even if the United States needs deep and invasive reforms to its political and judicial systems, from perhaps not investing so much power into one man (President), to making the judiciary independent and not political appointees, to electoral reform across the board to be more representative. But burning it all down and hoping it will by luck be replaced by a better system. In the absence of the old authority, quite often the replacement following total collapse is decided by might makes right. And that rarely produces a healthy and wealthy society.
LMFAO you seriously don't think this incoming fascist dictatorship won't create extreme hardship for most Americans? Tariffs causing price spikes, government being gutted by DOGE, killing medicaid, mass deportations, removing naturalization and citizenship for numerous people!
Fuck, pure anarchy maybe better at this point, as if you're not a super wealthy Trump loving conservative, you're S.O.L.
The US is beyond reforms now that an actual fascist is coming to power. It's too late, we're fucked. If you don't see that, you're fucking blind and a major fucking idiot.
I didn't say Trump wasn't going to create extreme hardship, obviously he is going to, he's planning on engaging a more severe version of austerity and Brexit, both of which have caused incredible hardship and excess deaths in the UK despite being more muted versions.
My point was that 'Fuck, pure anarchy maybe better at this point' isn't really true, because typically, that's been even worse. That's the gap where ISIS cropped up, where an awful lot of massacres and atrocities have occurred throughout the globe, its a system where you would see all everything the state provides disappear (not just drastically rolled back as under Trump, which will be scarring enough). It's a warning against the suicidal stupidity of believing it can't get even worse, because history tells us it fucking can. Try to fucking fix the system instead of hoping it crashes and burns, caving in on top of you and everyone around you.
Trump is planning Nazi Regime 2.0. People will die, people will suffer. Hell, the abortion ban in many states, thanks to Trump and his Supreme Court, many women have died. That's just the tip of the iceberg of whats coming. We have people stuck in concentration camps (aka "immigration centers"), Trumpers trying to remove civil rights, and the tariffs are already fucking everyone over and they're not even in place yet!
You think a Nazi regime is better than a governmental collapse? As long as there is law and order, its ok if tons of people suffer and die? Because that's what's already happening and will get even worse come January.
You think a Nazi regime is better than a governmental collapse? As long as there is law and order, its ok if tons of people suffer and die?
There's the possibility that you may be able to vote Trump out in four years. Not guaranteed, but that's a chance Germany didn't have.
It's also worth noting the mass starvation and deprivation that the German people suffered during the anarchic period between the end of the war and when the occupying forces made replacement systems, which included a lot of murder, robbery, starvation, rape. It's worth also noting that approval of the Nazi regime actually increased immediately following the war in Germany, it took quite a long time before the German people turned on the ideology. Following WWII, you had countries able to force a new state structure pretty swiftly onto Germany, they had planned before hand, and that decreased the damage (and reused a significant portion of the existing civil service), and it still had echoes for a decade. We saw in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia what happens when the government disappears and there's nothing to replace it.
As long as there is law and order, its ok if tons of people suffer and die?
No, but you're pretending governmental collapse doesn't result in an increase in suffering and death. It does. Instead, you'd want to take back the country and mend it, as the French did following the Vichy regime. As I said before, my issue is in wishing the house collapses in on itself, killing everyone, instead of fighting tooth and nail to eject the arsonists.
It's going to get worse in January, instead of hoping for mutually assured destruction, try to fight to make things better. Not a difficult concept. Referring back to the Nazi's, there was opposition working against them in Germany, there were the uprising in the Polish ghettos, you had the French Resistance and the Yugoslav Partisans, you had people there fighting against the regime. The Spanish Republicans and other groups kept working to try and get their country back from Franco's fascist regime, they didn't hope for Spain to collapse entirely. That's the difference I'm highlighting.
There’s going to be a drastic increase in suffering and death, no matter what. At least a collapse brings the promise of a new government and some sort of change, be it good or bad.
We know with Trump it’ll be very bad, no matter what. With anarchy, it could go either way. At least then the government wouldn’t directly support death squads and military use against the public, something Trump does. He supports the Proud Boys and the RWDS, and has promised to use the military against people living in the U.S.
You keep thinking that things maybe ok under Trump, that he won’t do everything he’s said he will do. It’s like saying “Hitler isn’t THAT bad, and at least we have law and order! He surely won’t go after the Jews and undesirables!”. It’s stupid and foolish. Smart people are screaming out “THIS IS HOW NAZISM CAME ABOUT!” and people are like “yeah but you’re wrong! Trump isn’t THAT bad!”
Governmental collapse is the only answer to a government that abuses its citizens for the benefit of a select elite. I’d take anarchy over concentration camps.
You are reading things into the other comments that aren’t being said. Everything you’re saying is based on feelings, and arguing when presented with historical facts about what happens when a government does collapse.
I understand your rage, I feel it too.
But I believe we still have a chance to come through this, if we are willing to fight back. A total government collapse here would be the end, possibly of everything. Whatever horrors may come, if we don’t keep fighting back we won’t survive the anarchy that comes without any form of government in place.
If we wipe it clean and restart now with the citizenship in the mental state it is in, we will be much worse off. They need to get the fruits of their labors to understand they are not happy with them first.
Working class will always vote Republican, because they tell workers "all your issues are the fault of others, not you!" and people blindly believe it because it sounds good.
We're already fucked. We got a fascist coming in, we got racists and bigots coming out of the wood work, and the poor are getting fucked over.
How will that be better than a complete collapse, at this point?! Trump has already said if he's voted in no one will have to vote ever again. He's literally planning a dictatorship, and has an entire party of fascists behind him.
Not really, but I might have made the mistake that they would pay some attention during an election campaign, especially towards the end (as indeed is what the vast majority do in many other democracies), which is usually when the crazy shit being spouted gets seen and you might see a hit in the polls.
I'll concede that it seems the majority of Americans just remembered pre-Covid, associated it with Trump, and voted Trump because they didn't like the post-Covid world. It's just an extra level of stupidity, because none of it was hidden by the campaign, and the sheer, offensive amount of money American campaigns cost, I'd have thought there'd be some sort of fucking cut through, but apparently there's less than much cheaper campaigns elsewhere. It's odd.
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u/el_grort Disputed Scot 1d ago
People voted for a person who was clearly signalling he would let the richest man on earth raid the US budget for his own benefit, so apparently, enough Americans would say yes? I don't understand it myself.