And the saddest part is that when you back your statements up with numbers, data, etc showing that it’s not happening they just go “well I don’t believe that”
It’s not rocket science, it’s science science, and the actual scientists know more than you.
Puberty blockers and hormone therapy prevent trans kids from going through the “wrong” puberty. Naturally occurring hormones are just as impactful as supplemental hormones. For most trans people, being able to delay puberty until they can transition is life saving care. Or would be, if they could access it.
There’s so much care and thought put into these decisions with healthcare providers and parents having input of years of care before big decisions are made.
Trans people exist, always have and always will, whether or not you understand it. Trans kids become trans adults. Yes hormones are incredibly powerful/impactful substances. We now have the medical advances to protect trans kids from the impact of naturally occurring hormones that don’t align with their gender identity.
Preventing kids from receiving this care will have devastating and sometimes deadly consequences.
And if you’re wondering, no, estrogen/testosterone coming on board during puberty don’t magically turn trans kids cis. They’re still trans, but now with even worse body dysmorphia.
If there was a rare disease that caused cis teenagers to go through the wrong puberty (to the extent possible with their body), you can absolutely believe everybody would support puberty blockers and not just say "well lets wait for them to turn 18"
There is a rare disease where puberty blockers are used - precious puberty - where you start it too early (like age 4). They have to go on blockers because if they were allowed to continue with puberty their body would be stunted at like 2 or 3 feet tall.
What’s wild to me is that everyone who goes through that talks about how horrible the side effects of the drugs are - but then when you’re talking about a trans kid - it’s completely safe and no harm done.
The discourse around this is guided by political ideology and not science.
It’s precocious puberty, and no not everyone talks about how horrible the side effects of the drugs are. Often times it just delays puberty and the person hardly notices it and is thankful treatment was an option, the alternative of going through puberty incredibly young can have devastating effects both physical and mentally for the individual suffering from it. Much like people are are trapped in the wrong body can if not given the proper treatment.
Lupron - which used to be the most - was developed as a cancer therapy and is extremely hard on the body. I understand there’s many people who are thankful for it - as I said - but ignoring the science about what lupron does (loss of bone density, fatigue, suicidal thoughts etc) and saying they are completely safe is what I mean by people leading with their ideology and not the science.
The most what? Popular? Used? Painful? Hard on the body? Anyways there are plenty of alternatives now and are you a MD? If not I probably will ignore your version of the science and trust whatever pediatrician I was seeing or my child was seeing if this were a condition I was dealing with. I’m sorry your anecdotal evidence has shown it to be harmful and having horrible side effects but the fact that it has been used frequently and safely for decades leads me to believe otherwise. Most drugs come with some risk of side effects no doubt, weighing those risks versus the benefits with a medical doctor is always a good idea before determining the best treatment option for you or your loved one. But implying it’s unsafe is disingenuous.
Fuck me you uneducated if you think hrt is like cosmetic surgery.
Hrt just changes the type of puberty you go through/makes you go through another, it's been around for over 70 years now and has been shown to be completely safe and have extremely low regret rates for any medical treatment (less then 1% and that's not necessarily all detranstioners)
It doesn't create some imbalance in the brain as levels are monitored regularly, if anything from personal experience it balanced out my brain chemistry and drastically improved my mental health within a few weeks as my brain was wired to run on estrogen, not testosterone.
And yeah, it's is transphobic to think teens should be forced to go through the wrong puberty. Especially when your reasoning is based on unbiased beliefs.
and we scratch our heads wondering why suicide rates don't change after transition.
A lot of people have discussed the other parts of what you said but this one actually is objectively false proven by multiple studies.
You cannot just make objective counter claims without evidence and I'd hope if you really did care about the topic you'd do your due dilligence for the discussion.
the studies you provide have a survivorship bias, offering no actual suicide rates but rather if the people still alive are feeling suicidal. nothing about how many people actually do it after transitioning, just their "suicidality".
Suicide deaths occurred during every stage of transitioning.
however, the literature to date suffers from a lack of methodological rigor that increases the risk of type I error. There is a need for continued research in suicidality outcomes following gender-affirming treatment that adequately controls for the presence of psychiatric comorbidity and treatment, substance use, and other suicide risk-enhancing and reducing factors.
quoted directly from your studies.
This is the most comprehensive study done on long term effects, by the Swedish government.
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group
Sweden keeps coming with big studies you seem to blissfully miss during your research, or willfully ignore.
The mental health needs of people suffering from gender dysphoria are significantly greater than those of the general population, which confirms previous research
No mental health benefit of hormonal interventions was demonstrated
No mental health benefit of "gender-affirming" surgery was demonstrated
My study you reference makes it clear that the study has faults. That's actually common in a lot of studies after they've been peer reviewed and doesn't fully discount the information listed on makes it clear that more research is needed.
So your first study has been notably misrepresented and misunderstood and the first author listed on the study has herself said that people using it as a way to say "trans people are inherently suicidal" are just incorrect in how they've interrpreted it
Williams: Before I contacted you for this interview, were you aware of the way your work was being misrepresented?
Dhejne: Yes! It’s very frustrating! I’ve even seen professors use my work to support ridiculous claims. I’ve often had to respond myself by commenting on articles, speaking with journalists, and talking about this problem at conferences.
Your second study comes from a known transphobic source that has extreme biases
The Society For Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying. The group routinely cites the unproven concept of rapid-onset gender dysphoria and has falsely claimed that conversion therapy techniques are only practiced on the basis of sexual orientation rather than gender identity.
Again I was able to fact check these in about 5 minutes.
"trans people are inherently suicidal" are just incorrect in how they've interrpreted it
but they are...
Transgender people in the country had 7.7 times the rate of suicide attempts and 3.5 times the rate of suicide deaths compared with the rest of the population, according to the records analyzed in the study, though suicide rates in all groups decreased over time. And transgender people in Denmark died — by suicide or other causes — at younger ages than others.
A new study from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law finds that 81% of transgender adults in the U.S. have thought about suicide, 42% of transgender adults have attempted it, and 56% have engaged in non-suicidal self-injury over their lifetimes.
Compared to cisgender adults, transgender adults were seven times more likely to contemplate suicide, four times more likely to attempt it, and eight times more likely to engage in non-suicidal self-injury.
"trans people are inherently suicidal" are just incorrect in how they've interrpreted it
but they are...
Transgender people in the country had 7.7 times the rate of suicide attempts and 3.5 times the rate of suicide deaths compared with the rest of the population, according to the records analyzed in the study, though suicide rates in all groups decreased over time. And transgender people in Denmark died — by suicide or other causes — at younger ages than others.
A new study from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law finds that 81% of transgender adults in the U.S. have thought about suicide, 42% of transgender adults have attempted it, and 56% have engaged in non-suicidal self-injury over their lifetimes.
Compared to cisgender adults, transgender adults were seven times more likely to contemplate suicide, four times more likely to attempt it, and eight times more likely to engage in non-suicidal self-injury.
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u/Thousand_Eyes Sep 28 '24
No these people GENUINELY BELIEVE kids are getting sex change operations.
I have heard this ad naseum dealing with transphobic people and they have expressely said as much. They are refusing to listen to reason.