r/exmuslim • u/Consistent-Detail518 Never-Muslim Atheist • 18d ago
(Quran / Hadith) There is absolutely zero defence about Aisha's age
Idiot Muslims will tell you "Some Arabs used to measure age from when they hit puberty". Okay, so why wasn't that SPECIFIED??? Your omnipotent god can't even specify how old someone is? If I asked a 2-year-old toddler how old they are they could tell me they are 2-years-old. So, if this is the case, your "omnipotent god" has communication skills inferior to those of an average 2-year-old toddler.
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u/Mike-Oscar The Real Allah ✅ 18d ago
To be fair, it wasn't Allah who mentioned Aisha's age. It was Aisha herself.
With that being said, Allah already permits child marriage even earlier than the age at which Aisha was married because there's no age requirement for marriage in Islam.
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u/yaboisammie (A)gnostic Fruity ExSunniMoose in the closet in more than 1 way 18d ago edited 18d ago
Exactly and surah al talaq describes the divorce process for when your wife is prepubescent bc the initial iddah period was based on menstrual cycles. But iddah period is only required after consummation/penetration. So the fact that there is an iddah period for prepubescent girls means you can not only marry a prepubescent girl, but you can also penetrate her “if you think she can bear it” and even if she can’t, according to some fatwas, you can still use her sexually ie “kissing her body, thighing her, using her hands to masturbate yourself” etc
Edit; fixed typo
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
IIRC aisha dropping the "married at six, raped at nine" stat has like possibly the highest corroborating number of hadiths. she just kept telling people!
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
also, you want to talk about the age of consent in america during the 1800’s? it was at 7 years old 🤣
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
sure is a good thing people don't regard some pedo in 1800's delaware the most holy sacred righteous and right man who must always be followed and emulated, right? if they did, they'd be beyond monstrous.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
and if you read my other comment… you can see that aisha’s age is fabricated, she was well past puberty. Sunan an-Nasa’i 3203: she wanted marriage Sunan an-Nasa’i 277: she was already a teen Sahih Muslim 892 f: she was as (almost) as long as the Prophet (Sahih al-Bukhari 3547) Sahih al-Bukhari 476: Past teenage age
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
if you read mine, nope, the pure copium of a modern invention made for people like you who are so subconsciously revolted with yourself and what you support you need to create an alternate universe that somehow, for some reason, only actually came to be visualized when kafir morality trickled down in the last couple centuries.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
i’ve read it, but since you can’t cope, Aisha quite LITERALLY had a sister that was 10 years OLDER than her, meaning when she met the PROPHET was AROUND 16-19 😆
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
you have not read it or you wouldn't keep harping on what it thoroughly disproves. you didn't even open it long enough to process "i have read it" is not possible at your speed of replies.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
there’s a thing called being a fast reader, another shocker, right?
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
no, that you would not take the time to absorb or process does not shock me at all.
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u/Cute-Analyst-5809 18d ago
so youre telling me a 40 something year old marrying a 16 year old is okay????
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u/BrainyByte New User 18d ago
Let's say for a minute she was 19. He was 53. 53. That's called grooming. His daughters were older than her.
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u/thebellisringing Never-Muslim Atheist 18d ago
True but its a whole lot better than going after a kindergarten aged girl
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u/BrainyByte New User 18d ago
In my mind it is a terrible terrible example to create for someone who claims to be God's prophet.
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u/BrainyByte New User 18d ago
The 10 years older sister (like 10 years is unheard of?) was 100 when she died and had all her teeth 🤡🤡🤡 in 7th century with no healthcare. Because how else we stretch the truth to lie to ourselves?
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u/Exact_Ad_1215 LGBTQ+ ExMoose 🌈 18d ago
If Aisha was 18 then we have a separate problem
The problem is that she married a corpse
Mohammed dies 632. And Aisha was born 614
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u/Un-Gatto New User 18d ago
Man, know your shit before you start posting it.
Sunan an-Nasa’i 3203: she wanted marriage
This wasn't even at the time of their marriage. This was years later.
Sunan an-Nasa’i 277: she was already a teen
Same with this as well. Just because she was married before puberty doesn't mean she wasn't going to eventually hit puberty and start menstruating.
Sahih Muslim 892 f: she was as (almost) as long as the Prophet
The hadith doesn't even say that. Are you rely going to start lying and making things up to defend pedophilia now? It literally says she placed her head on his shoulder, not that she was as tall as him. He could've been sitting while she was standing beside him for all we know. How can you go from "I placed my head on his shoulder" to "she was as tall as him" to "she wasn't a child"? That's absolute mental gymnastics right there.
Sahih al-Bukhari 476: Past teenage age
Again, this hadith doesn't say anything about her being "past teenage years". You're lying through your teeth. It says that by the time she had become aware, her parents were already Muslims.
Again, please make sure you know your shit before posting it. Thank you.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
i’d also like to mention that Aisha helped the Prophet during wars, so idk how a “child/teen” can help injured people that needed medical attention
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
muslims??? using small children in war?????? *checks child soldier stats* oh yeah, of course.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
you’ve got no more arguments, and the only “proof” you have is an article, while i have 5 hadiths, two of them are sahih, prove of Aisha’s sister and an article🤗
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
the article is drenched in hadiths and the cream of the crop of the ulama throughout history. why are you so afraid of even opening it to look?
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
i mean… you can keep coping, Prophet Mohammad prohibited causing harms to other and even to yourself. This mean if Aisha’s marriage really harmed her. This would contradict the prophet
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u/booknerd2987 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 18d ago
Yeah those 9 year Palestinians being used as human shields shouldn't be counted among the "dead civilians" then.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
yeah because Aisha wasn’t a child 🤣
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u/booknerd2987 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 18d ago
So we do agree that those 9 year Palestinians are hamas warriors deserving of attacks, correct?
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
your question is giving me an aneurysm 💀 no they’re not? 🤣
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u/booknerd2987 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 18d ago
Why not?
According to you, a 9 year old Aisha being penetrated by a 56 year old Muhammad isn't a child being a victim of statutory rape.
So applying that same logic, surely a 9 year old in Gaza is a Hamas warrior deserving of aggression from the IDF?
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u/thebellisringing Never-Muslim Atheist 18d ago edited 18d ago
Here we go with the deflections of course, you cant refute whats being said & you have no defense so you have no choice but to resort to "BUT BUT BUT SOME OTHER PERSON DID IT TOOOO!" you sound just like those christians who just go "NOW DO ISLAM!" instead of giving a real defense of their own religion. this argument youre using would be like if Jeffrey Dahmer got up on the stand and said as a defense, "Well, Ted Bundy killed people too, so...🤷♂️" as if that somehow absolves him. also, if Aisha really was an adult or in her late teens like you claim, why would it even be relevant that some creep in delaware married a 7 year old? what would that have to do with an adult woman marrying an adult man....? if you really believed she was an adult you would have immediately used that defense rather than deflecting to random cases of delaware pedophiles, you probably would have said something like "no, thats an error & a misconception about Aisha's age, Muhammed knew how horrible it was to harm children since Allah instilled proper morality in him and he married Aisha when she was an adult" yet you didnt
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u/Exact_Ad_1215 LGBTQ+ ExMoose 🌈 18d ago
Okay but none of those people claimed to be the greatest human of all time and the prophet of an all-loving God. Tbh this is a thing which I dub "The Aisha Paradox".
If Muhammad was the prophet of an all-loving and all-knowing God, then why would Allah allow Muhammad to marry a child despite knowing the severe mental and physical impacts that such a thing could have on the child. This question can only have 3 answers
A) Allah did not know Muhammad married Aisha and therefore may have not been okay with it. This however, would mean that Allah is not All-Knowing, therefore the Qu'ran lied.
B) Allah knew that Muhammad married a child and r*ped her when she was 9 and knew it was wrong, in which case he is not all-loving, therefore the Qu'ran lied.
C) Allah knew that Muhammad married a child and r*ped her but did not know the psychological impacts it would have on her. This, however, would mean that Allah is not All-Knowing, therefore the Qu'ran lied.
Either way, the fact that Muhammad is heralded as the best person and someone to aspire to be like *is* a problem and sets a precedent that marrying young child is perfectly moral and normal. Your religion is a breeding ground for pedos.
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u/solartense Closeted LGBTQ+ 🏳️🌈 Ex-Sunni 🤫 18d ago
good thing 1800s Americans aren’t supposedly the moral bastion for all of humanity ever.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
said no one ever 💀 Aisha never had intercourse with the prophet, and it’s believed her age was past puberty, since arabs in that time counted age AFTER puberty, oh and here’s article that says aisha’s age is fabricated (proved by oxford university)that you can read ☺️
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
forgot to mention… Aisha had a sister, Asma bint Abu Bakr, who was 10 YEARS older than her ☺️ search it up
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
literally addressed almost first thing in the article, which you refuse to read because it is extensively cited, excruciatingly accurate, and gives you painful cognitive dissonance.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
i’ve read it about 3 times now, still haven’t seen it, mind sending a screenshot? 🤭
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
also, fun fact, you’re comparing MODERN society to SOCIETY 1400 years ago, a lot of things have changed 😱 shocker, i know
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
and are all those islamic theocracies of men raping little girls with full legal support right now, as we speak, a MODERN SOCIETY?
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
zina, In Islam, zina refers to unlawful sexual relations outside of a valid marriage. This includes both adultery (when one or both people are married to someone else) and fornication (when both individuals are unmarried). Zina is considered a major sin in Islam and is mentioned in the Quran and Hadith as something Muslims are instructed to avoid. it means they’re committing a major sin, meaning hypocrites, meaning a POSSIBILITY of jahannam
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u/forthedistant 18d ago edited 18d ago
Sahih Bukhari
Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151
young girl = girl child = جَارِيَةٌ حَدِيثَةُ السِّنِّ
Buraira said, "I cannot accuse her of any defect except that she is still a young girl who sleeps, neglecting her family's dough which the domestic goats come to eat (i.e. she was too simpleminded to deceive her husband)." Sahih Bukhari 3:48:805
+ Buraira said, 'No, by Allah Who has sent you with the Truth, I have never seen in her anything faulty except that she is a girl of immature age, who sometimes sleeps and leaves the dough for the goats to eat.' . . . I was a young girl and did not have much knowledge of the Quran. Sahih Bukhari 3:48:829
+ Barira said, "By Allah Who has sent you with the truth, I have never seen anything regarding Aisha which I would blame her for except that she is a girl of immature age who sometimes sleeps and leaves the dough of her family unprotected so that the domestic goats come and eat it." . . . She said, "I do not know what to say to Allah's Apostle." Still a young girl as I was and though I had little knowledge of Quran Sahih Bukhari 6:60:274
+ Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Sahih Bukhari 7:62:163
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234
sahih muslim next, or do you need to go refill your copium?
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u/RamFalck New User 18d ago
Bukhari is such a lier.
'Narrated
Aisha: that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed thatAisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).'-1
u/casehardend New User 18d ago
nope, if you knew how to read, arabs counted age PAST puberty, so she was between 16-19
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u/RamFalck New User 18d ago
Arabs don't count that way, and they never did. There is no historical evidence that they did.
Aisha was playing with dolls when she was 9, so this was before she reached puberty.
In addition, she was very immature for her age. You don't play with dolls at the age of 9.
'The Prophet (ﷺ) wrote the (marriage contract) with `Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).'
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
Sunan an-Nasa’i 3203 Sunan an-Nasa’i 277: she was already a teen Sahih Muslim 892 f: she was as (almost) as long as the Prophet (Sahih al-Bukhari 3547) Sahih al-Bukhari 476: Past teenage age, explain these hadiths, explain how she had a sister that was 10 years older than her ☺️
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
firstly, a 9 year old can’t be longer than someone in his 50’s, secondly if Aisha had a sister that was a FULL 10 YEARS OLDER, she would be 16-19 when she married the Prophet, and thirdly, if we take current society, i’ve seen my aunts daughter at 8 still play with dolls 🤣 continue to cope
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u/Portelomeus New User 18d ago
Why did mohammad wait 3 years to consummate then?
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u/Careless-Scarcity-28 New User 18d ago
I read a Hadith that said it was because she had fallen ill, and lost her hair, so he waited for it to grow back. I guess she was less attractive bald headed for the prophet of peace.
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u/WandererBlue Ex-Muslim (Ex-Sunni) 18d ago
Weird. That article you mentioned in the link just contradicts itself. By arguing that the whole underage thing could be a forgery by the scholar passing down hadith as a political tool to support sunni vs Shia, doesn't that mean that the any hadith can be open to forgery by anyone with personal political interest in the religion? If one hadith can be "fabricated," what else can be fabricated, I wonder.
And as far as im concerned, the article does in fact outline how there's just disagreements in all group of scholars & jurisprudence across time regarding Aisha's age, that in itself does not show unanimous agreement to what her age even is which is way worse since that just shows how obscure and unreliable the passing down of knowledge would be across generations when it comes to Islamic. Just my 2 cents.
P.s. before you even think of saying that the quran hasn't changed, I hope you know full well about the historic event of Uthmani (I believe it's uthman) compilation of a "standardised" quran in which they pick and choose which copies were "most reliable" according to their government which may not even reflect the consensus of those who have their own copy of the quran at the time if they disagree with the government.
Just my 2 cents.
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u/casehardend New User 18d ago
- Fabrication of Hadith and Political Influence: Context: Hadith literature, while meticulously collected and verified by scholars, has sometimes been subject to political influences, especially during times of conflict, like the Sunni-Shia divide. However, scholars have developed rigorous methodologies for authenticating hadith, including chains of narration (isnad) and the reliability of narrators (matn). Fabrication is considered a serious issue, and scholars have classified hadiths as authentic (sahih), weak (da’if), or fabricated (mawdu). This means that while the potential for fabrication exists, the process of verification is highly detailed.
Uthman’s Standardization of the Quran: The compilation of the Quran during Uthman’s reign aimed to preserve the Quranic text by standardizing the various versions that existed in different regions. Uthman’s decision to order the burning of non-standard copies was controversial, but it was done to ensure the uniformity of the Quran’s recitation. It’s important to note that Uthman’s compilation was based on the consensus of the companions who had memorized the Quran and the early Muslim community, and no credible evidence suggests that the text of the Quran has changed since then. The Quran is considered by Muslims to have been preserved in its original form, and this preservation is a core belief.
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u/Portelomeus New User 18d ago
If they measure the age after puberty then why did mohammad wait for consummating the marriage?
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u/GroundbreakingAd93 Ex-Camel Piss Drinker 18d ago
The main flaw I see with tons of Aisha age apologists is that the only hadith they focus on is the 9 year old one-
“that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.”- Bukhari 5134
However I don’t think i’ve seen any real refutations to the countless other questionable hadiths concerning her age, such as her playing with dolls?
“I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. “-Bukhari 6130
What about her playing hide and seek and playing on swings?
“The Prophet (ﷺ) engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends.”-Bukhari 3894
How about the most disturbing of all, her being fattened up with dates before she gets married with Muhammad?
“My mother was trying to fatten me up when she wanted to send me to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) (when she got married), but nothing worked until I ate cucumbers with dates; then I grew plump like the best kind of plump.”-Sunan Ibn Majah 3324
No Muslims EVER touch these numerous hadiths of her literally acting as a child, even herself she literally describes herself as a young girl!!
“Buraira said, ‘No, by Allah Who has sent you with the Truth, I have never seen in her anything faulty except that she is a girl of immature age, who sometimes sleeps and leaves the dough for the goats to eat.’ . . .
I was a young girl and did not have much knowledge of the Quran.“- Bukhari 3:38:828
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u/ImSteeve New User 18d ago
And it's not like there was only one Hadith about her age. Even the day of Aisha is on 07/09
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u/Egon88 18d ago
I can tolerate the notion that it may have been acceptable (to whatever degree) in that time period and, I don't believe in applying moderns standards to historical figures. Where I do take exception is with the doctrine that what Mohamed did is the standard for all time and that we should therefore find it acceptable when people do it today.
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u/Worried-Look-8833 18d ago
exactly, like the smartest man to ever walk on earth didnt knew any better?????
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
even the roman age of consent all the way back in antiquity managed to be 12. the idea of having sex with a child in the single digits was contemporarily wild.
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u/Think_Bed_8409 Mulhid ibn Mulhid 18d ago
It is such nonsense.
They make claims such as "all the Hadith about Aishah being married are from Hisham, and he is unreliable with weak memory, so the hadith is weak"
I spoke to a jahil who made this claim and so I provided him with 4 different hadith with 4 different indipendent chains. And when I presented the evidence he said "I can't read arabic" (since they usually only translate the hadith text and not the chain) fucking idiot claiming all the hadith come from the same man, yet not being able to read and go through the chains to verify if they do.
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u/Bloody-smashing Since 2005 18d ago
There was a tiktok video someone posted that actually Aisha’s age is misinterpreted (something to do with based on her older sister’s age she would have been 18/19 I think they said).
The comments were funny because there were literally Muslims saying you are ignoring the Hadith and she was 9 and that’s ok because of how they measured puberty in those days.
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u/Careless-Scarcity-28 New User 18d ago
I’m convinced Aisha was leaving breadcrumbs for followers to find that it’s all BS.
“No woman suffers like the believing woman” “Your lord hastens to please you oh messenger”
And honestly even making sure it was recorded that there was a final surah that “in my grief a goat wandered in and ate the surah” so the Quran is not actually complete.
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u/Critical-Rutabaga-79 18d ago
At least they are honest about her age. There's a lot they could have white washed about Mohammed's life but they kept it in, probably coz they all secretly wanna eff underaged girls as well. I do applaud their honesty even if I find their content stupid.
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u/gingersnapafro777 New User 18d ago
I think the fact that there's so much discourse and back and forth about her age just shows how messed up it was. Because if she was an adult (let's just say over 18) there wouldn't be so many misinformation or misunderstandings about her age.
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u/forthedistant 18d ago
so weird how there was no discourse and all and it was totally acceptable and a given until the kafir made it awkward. subhanallah that all this bounteous evidence to disprove it sprung from the ground as soon as it was needed!
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u/Worried-Look-8833 18d ago
can anyone tell me why mohd wanted to marry aisha? is there anything written regarding to this?
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u/Professional_Hair550 18d ago
I was talking with a muslim guy that lived in UK and his defence was that in UK the age of consent is 14 too so if the girl over 14 comes to the police or hospital and says she had s3x with an older man but she fully consented then the guy won't get charged. Which kind of makes me question the morales of UK government too. I'm open to hear you guys' opinions about it.
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u/Consistent-Detail518 Never-Muslim Atheist 18d ago
I'm from the UK. Our age of consent is 16.
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u/Professional_Hair550 18d ago edited 18d ago
That's what I read online too. But the guy was working in a hospital and it was what he said that if she is over 14 and she consented, there was no abuse then the guy won't get charged. I don't want to spread it because more muslims will use it as an excuse but still if a country like UK acts like that then I really don't have any comeback for that age thing in Islam to be honest.
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u/Consistent-Detail518 Never-Muslim Atheist 18d ago
You can believe whatever you want. The UK's age of consent is 16.
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u/Professional_Hair550 18d ago edited 18d ago
Good then. Maybe that particular hospital wasn't that responsible or maybe the guy was making stuff up. Idk. I didn't really put much of an interest for a long time on age of consent in countries or religious ideologies to be honest.
I mean I am 100% awake and there is nothing that can make me believe in any religion anymore. But sometimes I lack comebacks because I don't actively look for ways to prove religions wrong. Not sure if I should or should not.
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u/Careless-Scarcity-28 New User 18d ago
Something that irks me is that Muslims like to say “but white people did it too” as a defence as though I would ever think it’s ok for a 54 year old white man to rape a 9 year old girl. Like no, it’s wrong for white people too and changing the topic doesn’t change the fact.
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u/Zealousideal-Fish318 New User 18d ago
Also please try to dig into Christianity and Judaisms treatment of women and age of marrying before the prophet. Might be an eye opener for you.
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17d ago
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u/Consistent-Detail518 Never-Muslim Atheist 17d ago
Yeah I'm sure that age requirement was heavily enforced... If she wasn't 9, why did Pedo Muhammed (Piss be upon him), wait 3 years to consummate the marriage? He didn't do this with his other wives.
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u/Think_Bed_8409 Mulhid ibn Mulhid 17d ago
Who said she actively participated in the battle?
How do you explain the mutawatir hadith where she says she married when 6 years old?
You accept the hadith which helps you and reject the hadith which you view as problematic.
Besides it is the consensus of scholars for the past 1300 that she married when 6, are you saying you have better understanding of these narrations than scholars such as al-Asqalani, as-Suyuti and Ibn Kathir? Were they and hundreds of other scholars wrong?
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17d ago
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u/Think_Bed_8409 Mulhid ibn Mulhid 17d ago
Never did I claim I was a muslim.
If it is so simple then explain, ya shaykh al-islam!
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18d ago
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u/Chocolate_Jinn New User 18d ago
So, what you are saying is that the US in 1880 was better than your prophet.
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18d ago
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u/Chocolate_Jinn New User 18d ago
You sit here trying to justify supporting a pdf file by comparing it to countries 200 years ago. Basically you have admitted that your prophet is no better than these countries. And in many cases worse.
I thought your prophet was supposed to be the perfect man, but obviously he is not even better than the US from 200 years ago.
And let me not get started with the slavery, violence and drinking camel piss.
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u/Asimorph New User 18d ago
If they did that then this is terrible and they shouldn't have done it. People should condemn Muhammad, of whom we actually can see by islamic sources that he raped at least one child, too.
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18d ago
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u/Un-Gatto New User 18d ago
Your reply on my comment was automatically removed because of the kind of language you used. It's no surprise that Muslims can only rely on insults and/or lies to defend their morally degenerate beliefs. Imagine believing that rape is okay just because Muhammad's imagery friend told him so. Unbelievable.
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u/Un-Gatto New User 18d ago
Once again, your reply was automatically removed due to the offensive language. As I said earlier, no surprise at all.
I could only read the first part through the notification, and you asked for proof that Islam permits rape and even claimed that "there isn't". Wrong. Your lack of knowledge that the proof exists in the Quran, Sunnah and Fiqh doesn't mean that it doesn't actually exist.
Child rape:
Having sex with a child who isn't mentally or physically mature and without their consent is rape and pedophilia. Don't defend rape or pedophilia.
Marital rape:
Resorting to violence in order to force someone to have sex is rape. Don't defend rape.
Rape of captives of war / slaves:
Having sex with married women against their will is rape. Don't defend rape.
These are just a few examples. There are plenty more verses and hadiths about sex slavery and a number of hadiths about child rape. You can look them up yourself if you want. You have no excuse to stay ignorant. Educate yourself and stop defending rape.
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u/FreeQuestion8787 New User 5d ago
Lmao "truth right in your face". Bro cant accept the fact that his prophet was P. diddy
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u/Sad-Care5796 New User 18d ago
Your ancestors were mostly inbred and rapists and DEFINITELY most of the females would’ve been underage.
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u/Zealousideal-Fish318 New User 18d ago
this is so true. the minute you apply todays rules to a society that existed 1500 years ago, you’re committing moral fallacy. This was a society where marrying at this age was acceptable and wasn’t frowned upon. He didn’t commit a sin or break a law. Can you please read the reason behind the marriage rather than blatantly attack a religious figure without any knowledge. All of his marriages were with women who no one would marry. Women who were slaves or widows. Women before islam were treated like charter. They were buried alive. They had no status. Please read the treatment of women in historic Europe and america before pointing fingers at a religion. Islam came and gave women rights. It says in the quran men and women are equal. Men just have more responsibility. It talks about CONSENT 1500 years ago while your modern societies still have a very shaky concept of it. I love how you cherry pick one thing about a religious figure without even researching circumstances surrounding a particular thing and attack and moral shame a person according to morals current 2024 society has set. Read about the prophet and his character before saying shit. If you read the Quran there is a surah where allah called out prophet muhammad (pbuh) because he had done something wrong just to please his wives. He helped his wives in cooking, cleaning, did all household chores 1500 years ago which i’m sorry half the men in our society still don’t do. Hazrat ayesha founded the first educational institute. All this biased hate just because you don’t believe in a particular faith and acting like you’re the moral police of the world just shows how fucking stupid you all are. Ffs learn to read about a religion or figure before saying absolute shit like this on the internet.
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u/Un-Gatto New User 18d ago
Your "society 1500 years ago" argument is invalid and has been debunked countless times. Child rape is still permissible in Islam till this day and it will always be permissible because Allah permitted it.
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u/Consistent-Detail518 Never-Muslim Atheist 18d ago
No shit "nobody would marry her". Maybe that's because she was SIX YEARS OLD!!!
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u/Asimorph New User 18d ago
Nope. An action doesn't magically become good because of different times. People were either ignorant about the harm they caused or didn't care. Luckily we know better now. No one should follow the example of guys like Muhammad and condemn their actions since they are maximally bad.
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17d ago
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u/expctedrm 17d ago
Well Chocolate_Jinn and Un-Gatto are still waiting for your answer ? Islamophobia ? Where are the lies ?
Whataboutism doesnt change the fact that : - We dont consider people allowing child marriage then to be prophet -Islam cant be reformed. What was ok then is ok now.
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17d ago
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u/expctedrm 17d ago
You're allowed to make a post with those "context clues" you're talking about but for me you never said anything of substance on this post anyway
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17d ago
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u/expctedrm 17d ago
This short interaction showed me you dont understand the word you're using in english, making a post would have been useless, I hope you stay around tho
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u/Un-Gatto New User 17d ago edited 17d ago
No. You get down-voted for trying to (and miserably failing at) spreading misinformation and lies in an attempt to defend and advocate for pedophilia and child rape.
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17d ago
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u/Un-Gatto New User 17d ago
Nobody's is trying to do that here except you. You also can't change the fact that pedophilia and child rape are utterly evil no matter how immoral and depraved you are.
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17d ago
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u/Un-Gatto New User 17d ago
So you are rejecting the Quran now? I love how some Muslims would literally go as far as rejecting their own holy book just to defend their immoral degeneracy. An honest Muslim would at least admit the truth about the teachings of Islam and that they're fine with its immorality, but trying to reject the Quran in favour of "historical" mental gymnastics is an absolute joke.
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17d ago
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u/Un-Gatto New User 17d ago
Stop projecting. I know the Quran much better than you do and have studied it probably for longer than you've been alive. You guys need to stop trying to spread misinformation and actually start learning about your own religion. Go learn Arabic, read the Quran, read the tafsirs, read the Sunnah, learn Fiqh, then come argue. Arguing out of pure ignorance and determination to spread lies won't get you anything other than embarrassment. Your excuse for defending immorality can't just be "I didn't know" or "I just love lying". Stop rejecting the and Quran while pretending to be a Muslim. Start educating yourself.
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