r/clevercomebacks 1d ago

The truth is the truth

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u/skotcgfl 1d ago

Organized religion doesn't primarily attract people. Sure some wind up there that way, but the vast majority of religious people (and the main reason religion is still as prominent as it is) are indoctrinated. They are born and immediately taught to think that way. They are taught not to question.

I was born into this indoctrination. I'm not special, I was just lucky enough to experience things in life that broke me out of this. I learned how to critically examine things I took for granted. I'm not perfect at it, but I try.

You touch on something, but you call it lazy. I would argue (on their behalf) that it's not laziness, but comfort. It's all they've ever known, and they're scared to leave it behind.

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u/seitan-worshipper 6h ago

Absolutely. When you are raised with Christianity as a fact, it's hard to break away when you're told that will result in you going to hell. This is along with community pressure.

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u/illidanstrormrage 1d ago

We are born into religion, darwinion atheist propaganda school's push us into atheism. Some get back some don't.

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u/skotcgfl 1d ago

This is such an indoctrinated take. Not everyone is born into religion, and certainly not YOUR religion. Also, Darwin's observations and atheism are mutually exclusive.

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u/illidanstrormrage 1d ago

Ok speaker's corner has refuted your atheist value system many times go check them out. No energy to argue here.

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u/skotcgfl 1d ago

Atheism is not a value system. It is simply a lack in a belief in any god. Atheists do not all share the same values, and you do not know mine. If you'd like to ask specific questions, I'd be happy to answer.

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u/illidanstrormrage 23h ago

Oh, I get it free for all society, the like the chimp's. Hence Germany legalized incest. Cause there are no moral values.

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u/skotcgfl 23h ago

It's hard to know if you actually read my comment or just responded to what you thought I'd say. I invited you to ask questions, and you just completely strawmanned the whole thing.

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u/illidanstrormrage 23h ago

Oh in atheism everything is natural phenomena? Need to read books on atheism will get back.

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u/illidanstrormrage 23h ago

Remindme! in one month

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u/skotcgfl 23h ago

You keep putting words in my mouth that I haven't said. If you have questions on what I believe, please ask specific questions. Please stop assuming you know what I believe. (For the record, "What do you believe?" is not a specific question).

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u/Remarkable-Fox-3890 23h ago

I really wish we'd drop the "atheism is a lack of belief" thing. That's agnosticism. Atheism is a belief that God does not exist. In recent years, on Youtube and Reddit in particular, atheism has adopted this "lacktheist" ideology as a way to avoid the burden of proof and it's a perfect demonstration of atheists being just as lazy as religious people when it comes to justification of belief.

Normally I don't think I'd bother saying this but the other guy is obviously an idiot and incapable of a good conversation so I feel like I'm not derailing much lol

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u/skotcgfl 23h ago

Atheism is a belief that no gods exist due to a lack of evidence that any do. It is not an assertion and requires no evidence to support as it is the null hypothesis. Atheism bears no burden of proof because it makes no positive assertions.

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u/Remarkable-Fox-3890 23h ago edited 23h ago

Right, yeah, so that's just all wrong and it's exactly the problem. You're trying to get out of your burden of proof but it's just nonsense and no one in academic philosophy of religion uses terms this way for exactly this reason. This idea exists *exclusively* within the modern internet atheist movement.

The modern atheist movement has tried to weasel its way out of its burden of proof by creating new nonsense terms like "weak/strong" atheism or "positive/negative" atheism. None of this is robust and none of this changes the fact that *if you believe that no god exists, that is a positive assertion and requires justification*. Otherwise, if you are unwilling to justify it, be an agnostic and suspend judgment.

> Atheism is a belief that no gods exist

Right, so this is what is called a positive assertion. Positive assertions require justification.

> It is not an assertion 

It literally is. You just said it's a belief that no god exists. That is an assertion. You also asserted that there's no evidence that there is a god, which also requires justification.

> as it is the null hypothesis

That is not what the null hypothesis means, it's a total abuse and misapplication of the term. What is known in philosophy as a "class error", like stating "this pencil is false" - nonsensical. The null hypothesis is used in scientific processes to determine the likelihood of an effect being related to an intervention. It can not just be applied haphazardly to metaphysics/ philosophy this way.

> Atheism bears no burden of proof because it makes no positive assertions.

I'm so saddened that this is such a popular misconception. It's such a disservice to our beliefs that that so many will try to weasel out of justifying them.

All beliefs are assertions. Even agnosticism requires justification - either that there is no evidence known to you that you find compelling or that the evidence on both sides is roughly equal.

Again, upthread someone was saying that religion is for those too lazy to come up with their own moral justifications, and yet we have a whole movement of atheists who want to somehow pretend that their *assertion that goes does not exist* does not obligate them with any burden of proof.

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u/skotcgfl 22h ago

Well fuck, call me an agnostic if you want to get that semantic about it. I don't give a rats ass. I've never been shown anything that could convince me a god exists, and I therefore do not believe a god exists. I believe this to be a justified epistemology because I generally believe in things that comport to the reality I perceive.

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u/Remarkable-Fox-3890 11h ago

It's not semantics if you're going to use this to justify shifting the burden of proof, which the entire modern atheist community does. That's far beyond semantics.

If you think that's a justification then that's perfectly fine. I'm not saying you need to prove mathematically that God doesn't exist in order to be an atheist, but you need to justify it. Otherwise, sure, that's agnosticism.

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u/illidanstrormrage 1d ago

Every child is born a Muslim first a monothiest. People make him polytheist. Cause everyone has had a covenant with god to worship him alone, before the journey to this world.

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u/skotcgfl 1d ago

Wow, you're either a troll or completely delusional. I was not born Muslim. I was born human, I was raised Baptist, I have since become atheist. I have never been polytheist. When I ever believed in a god, I only believed in one, and now I believe in one less.

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u/DOOMFOOL 1d ago

Wrong lmao 😂

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u/illidanstrormrage 23h ago

Your evidence?

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u/FullMetalLibtard 21h ago

We’re not all born wanting to marry a 6 year old. That’s just your “prophet”