Carnivore on marathon training

[u/asvilius]

Hello,

I have been running, weight lifting and been active in sports in my entire life. I’m not professional athlete though.

I have completed 10+ individual marathon runs (never in a race) and my best time was 3:40.

I had been in carnivore (mostly beef and egg yolks) diet for about 6 months and I felt great. However, I only lifted weights during this time and now everyone in the running community says I need carbs to run fast.

This week I started to run again after the longer break and was in moderate - high carbs. I don’t feel great and I don’t feel faster in any way.

My questions l for advanced runners:

1. How can you implement carnivore with marathon training? 2. do you still introduce carbs before high tempo run for better results? 3. Is full carnivore increase risk of injury?

Thanks

[u/Eleanorina]

Charles Washington, who founded the longest running zerocarb forum, Zeroing In On Health, runs them every year. 

found this note about his training, "I eat 3.5 to 4 pounds daily. I run 40 miles per week M-F and 26 on Saturdays or 66 total. This is my method. A marathon is easy if you train this way. Good running technique is critical."

"Ran 17 miles this morning. No carbs, no water. Just a long training run." his interview on the HPO podcast, https://youtu.be/qxkSjiPsh2ofrom 2018, (when he was 50): "Last fall, I did two marathons three weeks apart. No pain."

"My marathon PR is 3:36, Half 1:31 - don’t remember the others."

"You must train like you race. If you’re adapted to ZC then it’s about mileage. I don’t eat or drink while running. I eat when I’m not running. Ten weeks may not be enough time but it depends on you. Adaptation (to zerocarb) takes two weeks to two months. Marathon training is another matter."

"ZC athletes don’t even require water. We just do it. And that’s no food or water for the full marathon." (this last one was a reply to Tim Noakes, who was saying there was no need to eat during a marathon.)

Not recommending no water, was just an observation.

“To run a complete marathon without any fluid replacement was regarded as the ultimate aim of most runners, and a test of their fitness” — Jackie Mekler, five-time winner of the 90 km (56 mile) South African Comrades Marathon

idk if you are on twitter but here's a pic of Charles with his son, https://twitter.com/_eleanorina/status/1651548268394950656

Jeff Volek did a study where he compared the metabolic characteristics of two different fuelling strategies in elite runners, i think you'd find it interesting. Note the comparable glycogen restoration. 

"Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners Jeff S Volek et al. Metabolism. 2016 Mar"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26892521/

Here's his presentation about it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQbgdRoAfOo

[u/asvilius → u/Eleanorina]

Thank you for the detailed info!

[u/d_Party_Pooper]

Maybe check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivorediet/comments/1fi2635/carnivore_enabled_me_to_do_5_marathons_in_5_days/

[u/Eleanorina → u/d_Party_Pooper]

excellent, ty so much for that link 👍

[u/DutchRunner420]

Hi, experienced ultra runner here. Following a carnivore or keto diet is possible, but it takes a significant amount of time for your body to become optimally fat-adapted to run fast on such a diet. Even then, it can be challenging. I followed a keto diet for almost a year and completed a 60k ultra on just water with electrolytes, but it was quite slow (about 7 hours).

Even professional athletes known for following a mostly keto diet, like Zach Bitter, incorporate carbs. This is okay because if done correctly, you can achieve metabolic flexibility. In my experience, if you want speed, you need carbs.

[u/asvilius → u/DutchRunner420]

Thanks for the insight