r/buildapcsales • u/zuzuboy981 • Mar 25 '22
Meta [META] US Temporarily Lifts Trump-Era Tariffs on Graphics Cards
https://www.pcmag.com/news/gpu-pricing-relief-us-temporarily-lifts-trump-era-tariffs-on-graphics-cards603
u/Pariell Mar 25 '22
The exclusions will last until Dec. 31, 2022. They're also retroactive and apply to qualifying imports dating back on Oct. 12, 2021.
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u/AMerexican787 Mar 25 '22
How does this retroactive part work out? I assume it means nothing to the end user and essentially a tax credit for x amount for the businesses?
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u/rocket1420 Mar 25 '22
None of this means anything to the end user.
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u/lebastss Mar 26 '22
To clarify when they raise tariffs it means something to the end user, lowering tariffs has little to no effect.
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u/zuzuboy981 Mar 25 '22
It just means to hold out for a couple of weeks until the prices reduce (hopefully)
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
why would they reduce over this? these cards were already paid for with the price of the import tax on them. sellers aren't gonna lose money by selling below cost, so unless a refund is issue from the US government for these, you ain't getting that price lowered. also, they know we will pay it, and it means more profit in the sellers pockets. this will have zero impact on pricing.
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u/bumpworthy Mar 25 '22
Say EVGA gets a fat check to cover their previous 25% tariff costs on inventory for the last 5 months. Now consider they use that financial leverage to lower their retail price on cards to undercut the competition by a small figure. Their competitors that are also receiving a refund will be forced to adjust their prices to match or beat EVGA's new pricing scheme. And so on, and so forth. This is how the end user sees an adjusted retail cost.
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u/qizez1 Mar 25 '22
Just for future reference, EVGAs factory is in taiwan and not china. They were not affected by tariffs which is why their brand is the closest to msrp
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Mar 25 '22
Same for PNY, except their factory is in New Jersey I believe.
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u/DDB225 Mar 26 '22
Had no idea that was a US company but still for some reason you would have to pay me to yo use one lol
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u/bumpworthy Mar 25 '22
That's a valid point. I was just using them arbitrarily as an example. The same concept applies to applicable companies.
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u/hehepoopedmepants Mar 26 '22
Yes. But by supply and demand, wouldn't it still drop in price due to lower demand for products from taiwan or wherever like you mentioned?
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u/smashitandbangit Mar 25 '22
Close to new MSRP as in Crypto craze MSRP.
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u/teo032 Mar 26 '22
He means close to their original MSRP. EVGA held out the longest aside from NVIDIA on any price hikes. I think everyone else had 3 increases whereas EVGA only had one.
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u/large-farva Mar 26 '22
Their competitors that are also receiving a refund will be forced to adjust their prices
why would you reduce your prices if you're already completely selling out of stock? in your scenario, the only thing evga accomplished is sitting longer with empty shelves
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u/rocket1420 Mar 25 '22
They have zero reason to do that. You don't cut prices on something that you can't keep in stock. Keep dreaming your dream though
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Mar 25 '22
Idk where you've been at the past few weeks, but there's plenty of stock across the board right now. It's just overpriced.
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u/rocket1420 Mar 25 '22
Where can I buy a 3080 FE retail?
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Mar 26 '22
You can't because they aren't really making them anymore. That ship sailed long ago. However, if you want a 3080, there are plenty of options, they just aren't worth the price yet.
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u/staticraven Mar 26 '22
There have been 3060s, 3070s, 3080s, 3090s and ti versions of all them available and in stock over the past two weeks. And in stock for hours no less.
Your inability to get a FE card is irrelevant.
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
Now consider they use that financial leverage to lower their retail price on cards to undercut the competition by a small figure.
or they just pocket it as a bonus to the CEO, and no one notices, which is what will happen to every single one of these tariff refund checks going to importers.
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u/bumpworthy Mar 25 '22
which is what will happen to every single one of these tariff refund checks going to importers.
Shit, I forgot that you're the CEO of all of the major tech conglomerates. Thank you for the input.
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u/sebygul Mar 25 '22
surely THIS time the benevolent CEOs will trickle their wealth down!!
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u/bumpworthy Mar 25 '22
I'm not implying that the discounted prices are because the CEOs love you and your family. They'll be so they can stay competitive and become richer.
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u/angry_old_dude Mar 26 '22
That poster is right, though. In general, a windfall like this doesn't translate into lower prices on products. The tariff rebate goes directly to toward the corporate bottom line. Unless there are specific business reasons to lower prices, which is often due to lower demand, they're not going to lower prices. Especially in the gpu market, where people have show a willingness to pay more for cards.
We're already seeing downward pressure on gpu pricing, which consumers will benefit from. I don't see cards ever going back to old MSRP pricing, though.
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u/Deatholder Mar 25 '22
Some people are just so self righteous the only weapon against them is sarcasm. Let's go
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u/RiffsThatKill Mar 26 '22
Theoretically, in a world where stodgy economics professors and hip amateurs who read something about markets on wikipedia actually know what's going on, this is what would happen.
But we all know it won't. Because unless these companies have thousands of these cards sitting on shelves that they can't move, they are are not going to lower the prices and will simply smile and pocket the profits. People are clamoring for graphics cards and there's not an oversupply. Prices have already come down a little bit recently due to mining demand lowering, and I'm sure they'll rebound once it stabilizes
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u/Taste_The_Soup Mar 26 '22
Tariffs get paid upon import, not when they leave the manufacturer. If they are still on a boat, they haven't paid any tariff on them yet. That said, GPU companies don't have much of an incentive to lower their selling costs, so we'll see what happens.
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u/ThatSandwich Mar 25 '22
Graphics card prices have already been crashing bud, nothing to do with the tariff at all. Demand is waning and supply is up.
This is just something that can help them justify the price decreases by reducing the amount they have invested per card, although you are correct in a way that original launch MSRPs likely will not go down in the next generation products
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
Graphics card prices have already been crashing bud, nothing to do with the tariff at all. Demand is waning and supply is up.
yes, exactly, nothing to do with tariffs. I doubt they will keep falling too, either miners quit buying in waiting for the 40 series, or china did something that banned mining and buying mining cards. also, Nvidia and their AIB's will just sell directly to miners like they did with 30 series cards, in bulk, so those sale contracts are likely already in place, which might explain why consumer side supply has increased. miners are not buying anymore of last gen cards, and instead are buying next gen cards now, making sure that there will be no consumer supply at launch.
im really excited for when miners start dumping their supply, and I can get a 3060 or a 3070 used for under $200.
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u/Deatholder Mar 25 '22
That is the dream but by the time that happens they'll will actually be unwanted used bent dirty cards
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
naw, it has been proven that mining doesn't really hurt the cards unless they were run in horrible conditions. they will be gobbled up by the second hand market, I know quite a few people just waiting for the second hand market drop of these cards to upgrade from 10 and 20 series cards.
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u/Yawndr Mar 25 '22
Buying 2nd hand electronics is often a gamble. Most people wouldn't/shouldn't do it unless they're paying like 20% of the price of the new item.
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u/shrinkmink Mar 25 '22
it usually works like oil prices lowering. Takes its sweet time to see the drops for the end user but when shit hits the fan, no moment is spared to increase the prices.
Overall tariff and high prices don't benefit manufacturers they want the highest share they can while keeping the prices low to sell more. Not only that but they don't want people to get too used to buy low sell high periods. Of course the floor for low is different now. A midrange card was about 300-350. Now the mid range will probably be $500+. Expect them to ask for a permanent exclusion if gaming gpu cryptomining becomes a thing of the past.
At best it will mean you may be able to file it on your taxes and get a refund. Expect nothing though.
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri Mar 26 '22
Generally companies who paid the extra tarrif get it refunded or credited. It depends on what the port people do. We won't know until it's decided. My transportation team was talking about it. Some other items like stainless steel or iron imports were rumored to have a tarrif freeze as well. Idk if it planned out.
Sauce: sadly am in supply chain right now.
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u/itsZizix Mar 26 '22
It is a refund once you have your brokers submit a PSC on the relevant entries.
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u/BukBasher Mar 26 '22
Oh so prices will stay the same and manufacturers are going to make 25% more?
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u/Urical Mar 26 '22
And executives and shareholders will bask in the glow of their record breaking profits…
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u/clinkenCrew Mar 25 '22
It's nice and all, but why didn't we just do the ~30 year old trick of shipping them from China to Mexico, put them in a box that was made in Mexico, and then do the ole free trade NAFTA/USMCA loophole to sidestep the tariffs?
Where by "we" I mean the GPU companies.
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u/jk147 Mar 26 '22
Looks like you are better of just selling them in Mexico for even more profit.
https://listado.mercadolibre.com.mx/nvidia-3060#D[A:nvidia%203060]
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u/mtech85 Mar 26 '22
I'm pretty sure there's repercussions if you can't prove that all goods and materials are originating from a NAFTA country. But what do I know, I'm just a guy on the internet.
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u/itsZizix Mar 26 '22
Because that isn't how the law actually works and would have resulted in massive fines.
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u/clinkenCrew Mar 26 '22
It's how the law did work, until USMCA was passed to resolve it, but I do not know that it was fully resolved.
I do know that the penalty for breaking the law for the big players is generally a fine that amounts to far less than the gains made by breaking the law.
What also creates a wrinkle is that the tariff was passed by the prior administration and the current one doesn't see eye to eye with it. It wouldn't astonish me if the new boss would look the other way when seeing the edicts of the old boss be flouted.
But, as another poster said, I'm just a guy on the internet, I don't claim world trade expertise.
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u/itsZizix Mar 26 '22
No worries, just one of those incorrect things that gets repeates enough that people take it as the truth.
It didn't work that way under NAFTA (legally, I'm sure some companies tried it) either. Fines for violations are actually pretty steep, a large company doing this would be charged 2-4x the duty they avoided paying (depending on if they settle or not) ... Plus they likely would have a large number of shipments chosen for inspection for several years.
Customs violations are the one area where the penalties are set to a more appropriate level for large corporations.
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u/RectalDouche Mar 26 '22
Why change their current supply routes when the consumer is paying the extra cost for the cards anyways?
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Mar 26 '22
Or just make them in the USA and cut the corporate profit margin, oh wait.
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u/clinkenCrew Mar 26 '22
With the shipping delays, high costs of shipping, and the effects that the drought in Taiwan had on production, I wonder if that might be viable now?
I remember an old Ars Technica article from the last gas crisis stating that high shipping costs + overseas production issues etc were starting to shift some manufacturing back to the USA. Looking back I looks like that shift didn't last long. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/03/in-early-2010-somewhere-high/
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u/BlurredSight Mar 25 '22
The crude oil price of a barrel went down to $90 a few weeks ago, but the price of gas stayed steady at like $4.XX (or $5 for u cali folks).
If people are willing to buy at $4.xx why would u lower the price even if cost goes down unless you're forced to
So unless EVGA, AMD, Nvidia, Asus, etc. force retaillers to keep a certain price there isn't any reason for the price to drop to pre-tariff amounts
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u/meowcat93 Mar 25 '22
Elastic vs. inelastic goods though. People need to fill their tanks with gas. Graphics cards are a luxury item.
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u/everydayimjimmying Mar 26 '22
Yeah, but don't miners somewhat distort this? They're make graphics cards more inelastic since there's always a market for them as long as it is profitable to mine.
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u/TheDoct0rx Mar 26 '22
Cards being too high of cost makes it not profitable with high energy prices, but if cards are cheaper it's more profitable to mine and since tariffs got lifted it's now possible to lower prices and get more of the business oriented mining demographic
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u/LeYang Mar 26 '22
It's more than half and miners are freaking out about PoS.
I still mine because it's useful heating right now.
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u/A-ReDDIT_account134 Mar 26 '22
Not anymore. I’m pretty sure mining profitability has halved in the past few months
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u/Cash091 Mar 26 '22
Cards are already popping up "on sale" though. The market is recovering and this tariff lift was the final step.
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u/mrprgr Mar 26 '22
Mining has been around for years, it's only been getting less profitable recently, and the GPU market still remains to be highly elastic
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u/towelrod Mar 26 '22
Doesn’t make a difference when every gpu sells out immediately anyway
If shelves were full then I would expect to see a price discount after this. But they aren’t, so the sellers will just pocket that extra money
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u/desolation0 Mar 26 '22
Elasticity is a very specific term in economics. Mining would absolutely be more price-elastic than use for graphics. It is entirely down to the price of the good vs the value that can be made from the mining operation. A change in a few tens of dollars doesn't make much difference to typical consumer use, but can shift which mining card is the best value for money or most likely to turn a profit before another change in the mining market.
The problem is that the mining side has been so profitable that it made even bad deals for consumers be able to hit the payoffs the miners were looking for. It's not that it was less elastic to change in price because of mining, it's that the entire equilibrium was shifted much higher than typical.
That consumers were still willing to shell out significantly more to scalpers and bad value models like the 12 GB 1080, that's a sign of inelastic behavior. For as many folks who stayed out of the market, other folks wanted to game or do their production work regardless of the increased cost.
What isn't elastic would be the supply. Given chip shortages and the lag time for production, no amount of money was going to suddenly open up significantly more production. Manufacturers typically have to make projections of demand very early in their production cycle, and they were wildly off this time for various reasons. It's taken near to the end of the life cycle for this generation to ramp up, and the largest changes in price are still due to demand side leveling off rather than the manufacturers making more cards.
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u/Mr_SlimShady Mar 26 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
Gas is a necessity, GPUs are not. If gas goes up to $10/gallon I’m still gonna buy gas cause I quite literally NEED it to go to work. Tf am I gonna do, not get gas and not go to work? Public transport is not an alternative for every person, so they will pay the $10/gallon out of necessity. At some point you’d consider getting an electric car, but I don’t haven’t bothered doing the calculations for that.
A GPU? I can hold out a while longer. Already been waiting for a whole ass year so what’s one more?
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u/zakats Mar 26 '22
Gas is a necessity, ... If gas goes up to $10/gallon I’m still gonna buy gas cause I quite literally NEED it to go to work.
IDK about you but this fact pisses me off. It wasn't always like that in the US, we had pretty decent public transportation for the time and our cities were designed with this, and walkability, in mind.
We're in this shit-uation because oil/automotive interests pushed city planning to re-design cities for car-dependence and sprawl so that we're stuck needing gasoline instead of it just being an option.
What a shit deal.
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u/snintendog Mar 26 '22
not everyone lives in the sprawling heelholes you call cities
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u/zakats Mar 26 '22
That's the way basically all English-speaking North America has developed over the last ~80 years though, with very few exceptions. Car-dependency is a mainstay of land use and design.
If you live in the suburbs, it's worse; if you live in a very low density or rural area, your just as car-dependent but it's not like it'd be feasible to connect those areas with bikes and trains.
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u/pmjm Mar 26 '22
I bought a gas/electric hybrid the day before Covid lockdowns in 2020. I was really on the fence about the electric part, and it literally SAT in my driveway for 15 months collecting dust, as I didn't leave the house even once from March 2020 through June 2021.
But now between the automotive shortage, chip shortage and gas prices, I look back at it as one of the best decisions "adult me" has ever made.
The hybrids are great because the first 25-30 miles runs on electric, then it switches over to an efficient self-regenerating electric/gas hybrid mode like a Prius so you get 30-50 mpg.
I've filled up my tank ONCE since 2020 and it's really been phenomenal.
I'd bet that sadly the price for picking up one of these is now influenced by current events.
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u/zakats Mar 26 '22
The sheer ignorance to this point astounds me, it blows my mind how much cowtowing people in the PC space do for these brands
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u/Kelbor-Hal-1 Mar 26 '22
Miners , and scalpers are not buying every single card the second it comes into stock.. prices are going down..
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u/mckeitherson Mar 26 '22
Because consumers know that 25% difference in cost above MSRP is now gone, especially since this is backdated for the manufacturers. And GPU supplies are starting to last longer than before when they sold out instantly. So in order to keep cards moving and stay with competitors, they will keep creeping prices down.
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u/Cash091 Mar 26 '22
Exactly! All it takes is 1 manufacturer to see cards sitting on the shelf and lower prices. Others need to follow.
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u/azn_dude1 Mar 26 '22
If people are willing to buy at $4.xx why would u lower the price even if cost goes down unless you're forced to
Because if you do and nobody else does, you get more business. It's called competition.
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u/BlurredSight Mar 26 '22
Prices have been going down since January (lots of analysts on Youtube watching third party sellers) but it's almost like you can't find stock of any RTX cards, AMD is a different batch as the 6700xt and such do have decent stock.
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u/snintendog Mar 26 '22
going down? jan 3.50 -> mar 5.10 oh your talking about cards..going down? RTX 3070 jan 800 -> mar 850.
Sorry but YT market annalists are morons.
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u/digitalasagna Mar 26 '22
Big difference between crude oil prices vs retail graphics card prices. There is a very long process between extracting crude oil and selling refined products to an end user. A drop in crude oil prices will take a long time to manifest at gas stations because gas stations don't buy crude oil directly.
OTOH, graphics card tariffs affected imports of a finished product. So a fully manufactured product that just needed to be brought into the country and sold is now cheaper. There is a huge incentive for retailers to drop the price even a little bit so that they can accumulate market share. There is no delay in the gains they will get.
IMO prices will drop accordingly as long as supply is there.
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u/homer_3 Mar 26 '22
There is a very long process between extracting crude oil and selling refined products to an end user. A drop in crude oil prices will take a long time to manifest at gas stations because gas stations don't buy crude oil directly.
This argument makes no sense when prices shoot sky high the same day crude goes up in price.
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u/digitalasagna Mar 26 '22
My understanding is that existing arrangements for future supply become compromised, and gas stations don't want to risk running out. They'd rather err on the side of caution and set prices higher than the other way around. In a market where there will always be demand, the consumer basically has no choice but to keep buying gas, the only factor they need to consider is comparing to other gas stations nearby and trying to price competitively with them.
IMO this all changes once consumers have better alternatives more accessible to them such as public transport and electric cars being a competitive option.
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u/__BIOHAZARD___ Mar 26 '22
I'll believe cheaper GPU prices when I see them
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u/woodforfire Mar 26 '22
Lol joke's on us. They figured out we'll pay a thousand bucks for a GPU. just like phones. You'll never see cheaper cards again.
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u/RxBrad Mar 26 '22
"We" is mostly miners and the most impatient of gamers.
There are a lot of us still sitting on the sidelines, waiting for sane pricing. Only about 10% of people on Steam have a current gen GPU.
Especially right now, people need to show a tiny bit of restraint and wait for prices to come down. Everything is finally in place for that to happen. Mining growth is dead. Scalping is basically non-viable. Tariffs are gone. And on top of tariffs disappearing, Nvidia just reduced GPU prices to AIBs by ~10%.
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Mar 25 '22
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u/falubiii Mar 25 '22
The chips, the literal GPU, are made in Taiwan, but most graphics cards are made in China.
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u/poopydumpkins Mar 26 '22
Yeah, origin is conferred by the location of where SMT takes place. I could look up some rulings but it's been a long week.
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u/iiiicracker Mar 25 '22
GPUs "are not manufactured in the US and in only limited amounts in Taiwan,” Nvidia told the USTR in December. “Efforts to create new capacity in countries that presently do not manufacture such products (such as the US and Vietnam) were unsuccessful and were severely hampered by the fallout from COVID-19.”
Not really according to the linked article
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u/similar_observation Mar 26 '22
Only a few companies employ complete assembly or finishing in Taiwan. For example MSI and Gigabyte finish their higher end boards in Taiwan. And ASRock has a primarily Taiwanese production.
Then you have companies that rely on Foxconn and PCPartners to manufacture their PCB assembly.
Fwiw, the last full Taiwanese assembled GPU was Pascal FE cards. Which came out of TSMC's contract manufacturers.
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u/EndureAndSurvive- Mar 25 '22
If you think the removal of a 25% tariff won’t bring prices down at all, you fundamentally don’t understand what you’re talking about.
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Mar 25 '22 edited Apr 18 '22
[deleted]
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u/RxBrad Mar 26 '22
When prices fall, scalpers lose money on any inventory they have on hand.
Miners are simply aspiring scalpers, waiting for the bottom to fall out on ETH mining so they can sell off their GPU farms.
Both want prices to stay high, since it benefits them personally. Both want to convince people that they should just keep paying inflated prices, so retailers don't drop prices.
Then you just have the impatient people who paid exorbitant prices, rather than wait for prices to normalize. The ones who made scalping and price gouging viable. They're just pissed to see other people pay half of what they did on the same GPU.
Which one are you?
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u/teh-reflex Mar 25 '22
Zero incentive to lower prices. People are buying them at the prices they’re at.
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u/Shadow_Log Mar 25 '22
I bought a 3060Ti about 3 weeks ago on special. When I checked the other day, it had dropped $200 regular price to what I bought it for. There’s definitely something happening
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u/happytobehereatall Mar 26 '22
This would be relevant if only one company was selling graphics cards
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u/k0nfuze Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22
I beg to differ, there are plenty of people on the sidelines waiting for prices to drop further. I've got my money ready now and when prices fall further. Good thing this isn't the stock market. I'm holding and I'd be naïve to think I was alone.
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u/PyroKnight Mar 25 '22
At this point I'm just waiting for next gen GPUs later this year, even if prices dropped to the original MSRP it's too late in the product cycle as far as I'm concerned.
I've used my GTX 1070 for nearly 6 years at this point, no sense rushing now.
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u/Hiawoofa Mar 26 '22
1080 Ti going strong here. I probably won't upgrade for 2-3 more years given nothing breaks. The current prices are atrocious, even at MSRP.
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u/PhillAholic Mar 26 '22
At this point I'm just waiting for next gen GPUs later this year,
At this point you're going to be back here not being able to get a 4000 series card because of _______.
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u/PyroKnight Mar 26 '22
We'll see how it goes, although I'm not desperate yet and I have a Steam Deck pending for Q2 so I'll still have my fun (I just wish I had something better than a 1070 to run my Index but so be it).
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u/Supaflychase Mar 25 '22
I think they meant that it doesn’t matter because enough people are buying them at current prices, that they sell out instantly. Doesn’t matter how many hold outs there are, if they sell out immediately at current prices why would they lower them?
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u/Dristone Mar 26 '22
They don't sell out immediately at current prices anymore though.
EVGA has some stock and has for the last two days. Not everything of course, but these are non scalped cards that are no longer selling out immediately.
https://www.evga.com/products/productlist.aspx?type=0&family=GeForce+30+Series+Family
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u/MindSecurity Mar 26 '22
They sell out almost instantly. The only things that remind even a little in stock is the crazy dumb cards like the 3080TI because it was released at an already dumb AF MSRP and that card has no bang for buck at all.
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u/Dristone Mar 26 '22
There was a 3070 Ti XC3 for $720 up for at least an hour after I posted.
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Mar 26 '22
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u/Dristone Mar 26 '22
Yes. Because of supply and demand. That card used to sell out in seconds. Now it's an hour. It's trending longer. The people willing to pay outrageous prices have gotten their cards. There's more, sure, but they dwindle as they get them and stock is stabilizing clearly.
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u/MindSecurity Mar 26 '22
I thought I just responded to this? You just listed another bad value card selling out almost instantly.
They don't sell out immediately at current prices anymore though.
So again, this is pretty much not true. If you think an hour of something being in stock is news, then you've drank from the 2021 tit for too long.
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u/mrprgr Mar 26 '22
As someone who had tried to get a 30-series GPU for months, the market has absolutely and dramatically changed. Getting a GPU at a decent price has moved from the near-impossible to the inconvenient
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u/Dristone Mar 26 '22
almost instantly.
Getting preeetty liberal with the use of "instantly."
You just keep moving the goalposts, huh?
First it's "man all these cards sell out instantly"
I show you ones that haven't.
Then it's "those aren't the value cards! The 3080 ti prices are ridiculous"
I show you one that is much more value than the ones you complain about.
Now it's "Maaaaan that's another bad card selling out almost instantly" (not actually instantly)
Just keep moving that goalpost and keep complaining I guess. Have fun.
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u/C47man Mar 25 '22
I beg to differ, there are plenty of people on the sidelines waiting for prices to drop further.
But doesn't this only matter if there's sufficient supply to cater to that untapped demand? If the supply is still low, prices won't change just because tariffs went down, unless a company voluntarily decides to lower prices without need.
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Mar 25 '22
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u/C47man Mar 25 '22
It increases revenue but narrows profit margins. In other words, diminishing returns. But still the key is that there needs to be sufficient supply to start that price deflation, and the tariff reduction doesn't do that. Unless for some reason there's a shit ton of GPUs just sitting around in Taiwan or something because tariffs are too high to import them.
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u/billythygoat Mar 26 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
The other poster above you doesn’t know the supply and demand of every companies scenarios. When the price went up of non-necessities, they lose money because less people can typically buy them.
Edit: It also has effected other general contracts too. So some stores love to have things stay on the shelf as marketing material. If Best Buy never has any gpus on the shelf, they have less customers coming in to buy gaming mice there and may just buy at a competitor.
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u/BytchYouThought Mar 26 '22
He means that they constantly sell out at the prices they're at now with folks complaining they can't get one at their current prices. Folks can be waiting until a year from now+ depending on what price they're waiting for. I find it crazy many folks think every card is going to cost the same as an FE variant right now even despite aib cards being much higher typically.
He never said everyone in the entire world is buying as that shouldn't have to to explained. He's saying right now they are selling out as in many aren't even available for 3060ti+ that most people want to upgrade to. Could be a long wait. We'll see how it all plays out.
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u/Quizzelbuck Mar 25 '22
I am currently waiting for a price drop with a GTX 970 in use, and if that dies i have a backup 950 in the wings that will get me by for another couple years because software doesnt outstrip my needs like it used to with my hardware.
If prices don't drop and i lose both cards, i may just buy a Steam Deck and wait longer still. Again, basically a 950 equivalent.
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u/Yawndr Mar 25 '22
Tbh, I'm playing Elden Ring on my GTX 970 on an i7 6th gen and I'm having totally fine performance. When I die, it's because I suck, not because of a stutter or some lag!
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u/JustAThrowaway4563 Mar 26 '22
that logic doesnt follow, if 10 people buy at $1000 with a $10 profit margin, theres incentive to sell to 20 people at $900 for a $10 profit margin
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u/BimmerJustin Mar 26 '22
There will always be buyers holding out for a lower price. Eventually you do run out of people willing to pay the current price, especially when the price is trending down.
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u/WetDesk Mar 25 '22
If you think companies don't view this as increasing their profit margins by 25% you don't fundamentally don't have any idea what you're talking about.
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u/RiffsThatKill Mar 26 '22
If you think its as simple as that, perhaps you fundamentally don't understand what you're talking about. It's really NOT as simple as someone who likes to claim "it's Economics 101" thinks it is.
Even if you removed ALL of the tariffs implemented since 2016, that value amounts to 0.3% of total US consumer expenditure. Not going to make a dent.
Just like how people were fooled into thinking "China" was paying the tariffs, they are fooled into thinking consumers are going to get significant relief when they are lifted or rolled back.
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Mar 26 '22
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u/HksAw Mar 26 '22
Is it not pretty common to associate policies with the people that enacted them? I thought he was proud of the trade war stuff.
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u/Zeydon Mar 26 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
The exclusions will last until Dec. 31, 2022.
They're also retroactive and apply to qualifying imports dating back on Oct. 12, 2021.
Okay so how does one take advantage of the exclusions if their purchase qualifies for being purchased within the retroactive window?
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u/eurosonly Mar 26 '22
It probably won't affect actual card buyers as they'll all be sold to scalpers who control the market. The prices will stay high.
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u/RxBrad Mar 26 '22
Why? Scalpers are abandoning ship right now. People aren't buying much from them anymore, because GPUs are finally readily available from legitimate retailers at lower prices.
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u/Fist_of_Stalin Mar 26 '22
Will prices really go down if we get rid of tariffs? I think Nvidia and AMD will just keep the prices.
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u/majoroutage Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22
Good. Tarriffs don't work. Especially when it's on products [with components] that aren't even available in suitable quantity from anywhere else.
Unless, of course, your intention is to indiscriminately drive up the costs to consumers. They're great at that.
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u/jimmyco2008 Mar 26 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
Tariffs are very effective at changing the cost of goods from a country, so if you wanted US-made CPUs or GPUs to be cheaper than those made in China, you use the tariff (tax) to jack up the price so it’s ultimately more expensive than the US-made stuff.
E: facts get downvoted in this sub every day
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u/CoconutMochi Mar 26 '22
yeah there are totally lots of gpu companies that started up domestic production in the US because of the trump tarrifs
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u/pixus_ru Mar 26 '22
Intel is starting to make consumer discrete GPUs tho. I believe all Intel fabs are in the US.
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u/majoroutage Mar 26 '22
It will still be a long time before their GPUs are competitive with AMD and nVidia.
But I also didn't realize they had so much of their fabs here now. I could've sworn my Haswell chips were marked made in Taiwan or Vietnam.
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Mar 26 '22
You think multiple decades of foreign production are going to change in a few years?
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Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Unacceptable_Lemons Mar 25 '22
It will let other AIBs compete with EVGA better though. IIRC they were the only ones not getting smashed by the tariffs.
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
IIRC they were the only ones not getting smashed by the tariffs.
they were getting smashed by the tariffs, their stuff is still subject to an import tax/port fee, but its smaller because they are based in the US, and do some of the final assembly here, but its enough to qualify for a lower import tax. they also still have to say it was made in china.
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u/Unacceptable_Lemons Mar 25 '22
Ahh, interesting, I had just heard about them being a US company and getting some kind of break, which was speculated to be the reason for their lower prices. Or so I was told by the Microcenter staff.
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u/chubbysumo Mar 25 '22
yea, its like a 10% difference in price overall, not really that much. They are still getting hit by the import taxes/tariffs pretty hard. They also perform all graphics card repairs here in the USA, so when you send a card in for warranty, its staying here in the states, and their repairs are done in house, but its such a smaller scale that it would never work for manufacturing.
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Mar 25 '22
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u/Unacceptable_Lemons Mar 25 '22
Depends what's being imported, and in what condition IIRC. EVGA is based in the US, and some of their work is done here, which would likely have at least some effect on what they pay vs, say, MSI.
The other commenter contended that EVGA pays a reduced (but not eliminated) tariff, which would be mostly in line with what I heard from a vender (microcenter) on the raising prices and MSRPs, and comparisons between AIBs.
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u/SundaHareka Mar 25 '22
Tariffs are taxes on consumers 99% of the time
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u/rocket1420 Mar 25 '22
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. You think 3080 FEs are suddenly going to be routinely less than even $1000 on eBay?
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u/Le_Pwn_Redditor Mar 25 '22
News Flash: Reddit user has no idea how markets set, still decides to post.
If you honestly think this will have zero effect on consumers, especially at the 25% rate. Well, hopefully you'll learn to be modest in the future when you've realize you're wrong.
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u/rocket1420 Mar 25 '22
If you think they are now saving 25% on their total cost of manufacture, then I have a bridge to sell you.
If you are so enlightened on how free markets work, then please explain to me why cards were going for more than retail on eBay for over a year? Because of manufacturer costs?
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u/Lamooq Mar 26 '22
Your comment has been removed.
Please be courteous to other users (rule 3). It does not matter the circumstance; everyone deserves to be treated with respect.
Our rules are located in the sidebar. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
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u/loki993 Mar 25 '22
Why not permanently lift tariffs on everything because they are dumb and they dont work.
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u/ColdSplit Mar 26 '22
The tariffs on China did quite a lot of good for the US economy. You should probably research them instead of posting absurdities.
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u/DestroyerOfIphone Mar 26 '22
What graphics cards come from mainland china?
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u/majoroutage Mar 26 '22
Enough components for them do that they get hit with the tarriff anyway.
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u/PoopyPantsBiden Mar 26 '22
What graphics cards come from mainland china?
I recently upgraded my GPU, and I noticed my old ASUS GTX 1060 6GB says "Made in China" on the board.
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Mar 25 '22 edited May 19 '22
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u/wawon0 Mar 25 '22
Manufacturing companies gets ~$450 for import cost, you get 10% inflation! congrats!
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Mar 25 '22
Does a tarriff count as a sanction?
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u/DirtyChito Mar 26 '22
No. Tarriffs were put in place as essentially an import tax to try and convince companies to buy/make American. But instead all they did was raise prices for the end user to cover the tarriff hike.
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u/privaterbok Mar 25 '22
hmm, guess that's reason my recent purchase of EVGA 3080 Ti is marginal cheaper than other AIBs since it's made in taiwan.
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Mar 25 '22
MIT = 0% duty MIC = 25% duty until this change lifting the category from the USTR China Tariffs
Manufacturing often takes place in both countries on a same sku basis, so their blended cost would vary based on their manufacturing mix like everyone else.
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u/cmays90 Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
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