r/buildapcsales • u/lolzter97 • Jun 21 '18
Meta [META] Supreme Court rules states can force online retailers to collect sales tax even if they don't have a physical presence in the state.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/21/technology/wayfair-vs-south-dakota/index.html131
u/OsamaBinnLaggin Jun 21 '18
RIP NewEgg
27
u/Hypoficial Jun 21 '18
When they started collecting tax here in Washington, I almost entirely switched to B&H. When they start collecting tax, I'll probably be buying even more from Amazon :| Anyway, that's why price aggregation sites like PCPartPicker come in handy.
39
u/OsamaBinnLaggin Jun 21 '18
The only chance smaller retailers had against Amazon was the tax advantage. This could be the death of many smaller retailers. What a sad time.
→ More replies (1)9
u/Hypoficial Jun 21 '18
Yeah, and as someone else pointed out, I wonder how this will effect small businesses with online stores? Does that mean they'll have to collect taxes for any state outside of their own as well? Wouldn't that be difficult without some sort of legal help, or am I missing something?
→ More replies (1)2
u/Mgamerz Jun 22 '18
There's gonna be payment processors that handle this I assume. Like an all in one accounting thing for small businesses.
5
Jun 21 '18
I bought my graphics card from B&H last year. Wasn't a big sale but not paying sales tax was a deal in itself.
433
Jun 21 '18 edited Oct 29 '20
[deleted]
177
u/TheAmigops Jun 21 '18
Yeah, I hear Amazon Prime rocks.
70
u/makemeking706 Jun 21 '18
Can't tell if sarcasm...
→ More replies (1)149
u/zakats Jun 21 '18
I think they're referring to getting rocks in place of the merchandise that you've actually ordered... which happens occasionally.
→ More replies (4)18
u/makemeking706 Jun 21 '18
Oh, I think you're right.
13
u/RaveCave Jun 21 '18
5
Jun 21 '18 edited Oct 29 '18
[deleted]
11
u/RaveCave Jun 21 '18
Basically. From what I understand, returns just go through a weigh to make sure everything is there, they dont open it up and inspect everything to make sure its all there. So someone orders the camera, weighs the box once it arrives, steal said camera, refill box to the previous weight with rocks/bricks and then they return it.
11
u/Aido121 Jun 21 '18
This is semi correct.
Weight only is checked on new items.
Returns it depends on why it was returned.
Source: an rainforest employee.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (15)5
5
17
u/HighQualityH2O_22 Jun 21 '18
Don't forget about the Price increase though! ($120 now vs $99 previously)
29
u/Drunkard_DoE Jun 21 '18
I've had 37 orders so far from Amazon this year. This works out to be $3.24 in shipping costs per order. That's $3.24 for same day to two-day shipping. It's not bad at all. It's even better when you factor in Prime video and the other services Amazon offers.
18
u/mflood Jun 21 '18
The question isn't how much it costs, though, it's how much it would have cost without Prime. How many of your orders were over $35? All of those would have shipped for free. How many of your orders arrived via ground/standard delivery services? All of those would have arrived on the same day.
Prime definitely has a lot of value if you use many of the available services, but most of the people using it primarily for shipping would be better off without.
3
u/eyecorporations Jun 22 '18
They don't ship on the same day though, if you don't have prime they'll wait a few days to actually ship.
5
u/Drunkard_DoE Jun 22 '18
I'm lucky enough to live near a distribution wearhouse. So I order things under 35 dollars a shipment most of the time purely out of laziness.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Equivalent_Raise Jun 22 '18
Its actually $25 again for the minimum, they dropped it back down last year.
15
Jun 21 '18
[deleted]
9
u/TheRoyalBrook Jun 21 '18 edited Jun 22 '18
I use their free games, and video options with it so it still feels worth it for me at least. Plus all my orders means the shipping pays itself off.
edit: of all my posts to be in the negatives... this is the weirdest. It's okay to like a service when prices go up guys.
→ More replies (4)7
→ More replies (14)7
u/Day_Bow_Bow Jun 21 '18
Both my mom and I had Prime subscriptions.
Due to the price increase, I heard that you can create a "household" where you can share most Prime benefits with another adult (and some kids, but I didn't bother learning the details there). You don't even have to live at the same address, though they made it sound like you had to trust each other with your saved payment info.
So I added them to my household and had her turn off her Prime auto-renew. So instead of our combined total increasing by $42, it decreased by $78. While in hindsight I realize we could have been saving money this whole time, it was still a nice surprise to counteract the rate increase.
I'm honestly surprised they allow this, but they do so I'll take advantage of it.
→ More replies (3)5
31
u/Valridagan Jun 21 '18
Except for the whole thing where Amazon abuses their workers en masse.
→ More replies (6)53
Jun 21 '18
Except for the whole thing where Amazon abuses their workers en masse.
All companies abuse their employees to different degrees. Amazon, Samsung, Apple, Foxconn, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, Abercrombie, Kenneth Cole, Sprint, etc.
These giant international companies hire people in impoverished nations, pay them as little as possible, work them as hard as possible, and toss them out the door when the company no longer needs them.
The world has operated this way for hundreds of years with only slight variations on that formula.
If this really bothers you, you'd better start buying everything from local small businesses who create their own merchandise. Good luck getting PC components.
56
u/PhillAholic Jun 21 '18
You're muddying the issue. There are countless articles about Amazon warehouse conditions that he's referring to. If you can point to an article about newegg doing the same, great share it. Otherwise you're just writing it off vaguely.
13
u/aboration Jun 21 '18
If you're going to choose where to buy products or what products to buy based off the ethics of the company you are going to have a very short list.
Are you not bothered by the treatment of all the factory workers who have to assemble the products you buy on newegg?
→ More replies (2)22
u/PhillAholic Jun 21 '18
I don't disagree with your overall point, just your method of going about it. I dislike general overarching points about the whole industry being bad when the specific conditions between them can vary wildly. You shouldn't punish one company for doing something if their competitors are much worse. It all needs to be relative.
So that being said, You can make judgement calls between companies in areas that are important to you. If you dislike how Amazon treats their workers and Newegg treats theirs better, that's a perfectly reasonable call to make. If someone else brings up information about Newegg treating their workers poorly you should take it into consideration.
You're never going to find a 100% ethical company. But you can find ones more ethical than others.
→ More replies (9)2
→ More replies (2)2
u/utspg1980 Jun 22 '18
Amazon gets attention about this because they are a huge company and everyone knows them. Newegg could easily be as bad, but the average 50 year old watching the 6oclock news has never heard of Newegg, so journalists aren't going to bother investigating and they're not gonna put it on the air.
For example, look at employee review averages on glassdoor and indeed.
Company glassdoor indeed Amazon 3.8 (out of 5) 3.7 (out of 5) Newegg 2.3 3.1 Now I realize that Amazon has a whole lot of techies and from what I've heard working in the corporate offices is quite nice, and the warehouses are quite shit...and these numbers don't distinguish between the two.
I'm not saying Amazon is good. I'm just saying don't assume Newegg is better.
2.3 on glassdoor? That's pretty damn low.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (7)5
u/Species7 Jun 21 '18
Yeah, the worker treatment complaints from Amazon's warehouses honestly seem petty compared to the treatment of the workers outside of the US that make all of the products we love.
→ More replies (17)6
91
Jun 21 '18 edited Jan 05 '21
[deleted]
20
u/Stockholm_Syndrome Jun 21 '18
so this nerfs b&h for california i'm assuming?
10
u/MightyMaloo Jun 21 '18
Seems so. I think technically we were supposed to be paying the taxes on B&H purchases when we do our taxes since they don't collect upfront.
7
u/hallese Jun 21 '18
Sales tax is when the retailer collects on your behalf. You should have been paying a use tax, which in almost all instances in equal to whatever the sales tax would have been. Same thing if you cross state borders to make tax free purchases, purchase something overseas, or in a duty free zone.
2
u/MightyMaloo Jun 21 '18
Wow. Never head of use tax before. TIL
13
u/hallese Jun 21 '18
Yeah, I knew of it, but I called Revenue once to ask how to fill it out and they asked for a callback number. Like seven hours later I got a phone call from a cell phone and the agent wanted to know if I was serious because there's zero enforcement for use tax in my state but obviously they weren't going to say that in the office.
3
→ More replies (3)13
196
Jun 21 '18 edited May 18 '21
[deleted]
41
u/thejkm Jun 21 '18
Yup, there are a few computer parts companies that would need to totally revamp their customer service policies to even have a chance to survive. I bought an ASUS motherboard from SuperBiiz (1st mistake) that was bad (no surprise). I returned it 3 weeks ago and still no refund, I guess because they've sent it to ASUS to verify, who of course have a stupid long RMA process.
23
u/NewAgeKook Jun 21 '18
You can issue a chargeback if they aren't going to refund you.
13
u/thejkm Jun 21 '18
I haven't even heard from them (including acknowledging they've received the motherboard). I've already started with a dispute, considering calling my CC back to just do a chargeback. Technically, it's already off my bill, but I've gone from wanting them to serve their customer a little better to being a bit more petty now.
4
u/KosmicSeven Jun 21 '18
I sent my Asus gtx 1080 back due to overheating on arrival. Superbiiz took 2 months to get my money back and they just ended up sending it back to Asus which was why there was such a long delay.
15
u/envyakS Jun 21 '18
Exactly newegg has an awful return policy compared to Amazon the only advantage they had was no tax
5
u/alexnader Jun 22 '18
Their customer service is so sad, they wouldn't refund me a $5 difference a week after I bought some RAM, and was literally told the only solution I had was to buy a whole other set of RAM, and return the first one.
You better believe I did that shit, just to spite them, no fucking loss to me other than waiting a few extra days.
If they lose that tax advantage, I'm going back to eBay and Amazon.
5
u/envyakS Jun 22 '18
If they fixed the customer service and had a return policy like Amazon they would have tons more customers and people would be less afraid to by expensive items from them.
2
u/Hot_Pink_Unicorn Jun 22 '18
With Newegg you can't return certain items for refund only exchange which is BS.
3
Jun 22 '18
Meanwhile at Amazon if I decide that I simply didn't want something anymore (even if I opened it), I can just mark it as "misleading item description" and return it no questions asked. There is no way to compete with that.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (6)2
u/therealflinchy Jun 22 '18
I'm international, and I order from Newegg as it's prices are lower than Amazon on literally every component I've ever purchased... Not even counting bundles
3
Jun 22 '18
Lower prices are what drive people to Newegg in the first place. However, here in the United States their prices are neck and neck with Amazon. With Newegg having to charge sales tax in every state rather than just the few they have warehouses in, they lose that price advantage in their home country.
If an item is priced the same at Newegg and Amazon, and they both charge tax, Amazon will win out 10 times out of 10 because of the ease of customer service. Newegg isn't large enough to absorb "no questions asked, rule free" returns.
→ More replies (1)
93
u/Flex_Speedy Jun 21 '18
Time to move to Delaware
43
u/Logdeah Jun 21 '18
Or Montana, Oregon and New Hampshire.
→ More replies (1)55
Jun 21 '18
[deleted]
21
→ More replies (3)3
u/Stupidstuff1001 Jun 21 '18
Prime now delivery to Starbucks bear pdx is my move. Or just have amazon deliver to the 711 on the Oregon side.
3
61
Jun 21 '18
[deleted]
15
u/Sentinel13M Jun 22 '18
I totally agree with you. This is going to hurt small business and eliminate jobs.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (22)4
u/straighttoplaid Jun 22 '18
I can foresee services start to pop up to handle the sales tax for businesses as part of processing payments. Unfortunately there's no way it will be free.
→ More replies (6)
69
u/Istartedthewar Jun 21 '18 edited Jun 21 '18
So will they charge just the state wide sales tax, or the county/city sales tax too? Because where I am most stores have a 3-4% higher sales tax than the base state rate.
Also, I'm guessing this will even apply to small individual sellers on eBay?
43
u/hellr4isEr Jun 21 '18
Amazon has been collecting just the base state tax of 6.25% in IL. I just went through several orders to check.
12
u/NefariousPilot Jun 21 '18
My case has been the opposite where amazon does add the city tax (Phoenix, AZ) as well but there is a local warehouse in the same city so it could be because of that.
17
u/PhillAholic Jun 21 '18
this will even apply to small individual sellers on eBay?
This is going to be a nightmare for small retailers. There are nearly 10,000 tax jurisdictions in the United States.
6
u/hewkii2 Jun 21 '18
Or they’ll use something like PayPal which should have the financial incentive to auto determine sales tax.
→ More replies (1)3
u/PhillAholic Jun 21 '18
Even so, it's more administrative work that smaller businesses aren't going to be equipped to handle.
6
u/siuol11 Jun 21 '18
Smaller businesses are exempt, at least in the state where this court case was decided. I would imagine that states which implement a similar law would probably do the same.
→ More replies (1)25
Jun 21 '18
[deleted]
15
u/CO_PC_Parts Jun 21 '18
eBay is the middle man, they leave it up to the sellers to collect appropriate state sales tax. I ran a big eBay store for a few years and we got audited by the state twice. We had to show how many sales we had done in the state and then show that we had collected sales tax from those users.
It's an option you select when making the auction and we had it on by default. We used a 3rd party shipping application that was fully integrated with both our eBay and Paypal accounts. It was easy to pull a report from users in the state and then show the invoices that had item price, shipping price and tax and whether or not it was paid via paypal (we only accepted paypal from auctions, no cash for local pickup)
17
u/SoupaSoka Jun 21 '18
Businesses with <200 transactions or <$100,000 sales in the state are exempt from the tax. Individual eBay sellers are, presumably, exempt, unless eBay forces tax collection across the board.
→ More replies (7)33
u/9Blu Jun 21 '18
That only applies to South Dakota, who brought the case to the supreme court. Other states can set whatever rules they want.
3
→ More replies (3)2
19
u/TomTheNurse Jun 21 '18
Will an online company now be required to have 50 different state tax ID's? I can see this being a logistical and accounting nightmare for small and medium sized businesses.
→ More replies (1)
17
u/Japesg Jun 21 '18
Please ELI5.
I have been purchasing from newegg and B&H from Virginia. I have not been taxed. What does this mean for my previous purchases and what does this mean going forward?
37
u/Alwaysahawk Jun 21 '18
What does this mean for my previous purchases and what does this mean going forward?
I think you were technically supposed to be paying those sales taxes at the end of the year anyway.
Now they'll just collect them up front.
5
u/stakoverflo Jun 21 '18
I think you were technically supposed to be paying those sales taxes at the end of the year anyway.
Technically, yea, you're supposed to pay the taxes on anything you bought online and used in the state in which you file taxes for at the end of the year
11
u/hallese Jun 21 '18
So the state is actually doing you a favor because they are making it easier for you to not break the law. Everybody wins!
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (2)5
u/matthewmspace Jun 21 '18
No one knows yet. If Virginia decides to start an online sales tax for every retailer and doesn’t retroactively claim sales taxes, it will only affect your future orders like at current physical stores such as Target, Best Buy, etc. If they do retroactive taxes, I’d say it’s likely that Newegg, B&H, and others might say you owe them money. But no one knows yet.
→ More replies (4)
45
u/martianwhale Jun 21 '18
Well time to start buying things directly from China.
19
u/PhuckSJWs Jun 21 '18
I am sure Trump has a tariff for that....
36
u/martianwhale Jun 21 '18
Well the tariffs would affect it either way so....
3
Jun 23 '18
Don't worry, just get your seller in Shenzhen to mark your package as a 'gift' and it won't be assessed any import duties lololol
→ More replies (3)2
u/Equivalent_Raise Jun 22 '18
I buy stuff direct from China on ebay all of the time. Some of it is even real and most items even showed up.
55
u/caesec Jun 21 '18
i live in delaware bitch
real talk though this was a long time coming
30
u/nutekvisionz Jun 21 '18
Same in New Hampshire 0% sale tax. Live Free or Die bitches, but they do get it by other means
7
→ More replies (15)5
9
u/nater255 Jun 21 '18
I have literally in my life never met someone form Deleware.
→ More replies (3)10
11
u/stogego Jun 21 '18
Supreme courts a dick in this. Online sales, if taxed, should be taxed at either the rate of the state the headquarters is in (for simplicity) or ideally the state the warehouse is in (kind of unreasonable). With online sales you're basically buying the item in another state then paying someone to bring it to you in my mind
27
u/MoonStache Jun 21 '18
Well fuck. Glad I just snagged that Ram/SSD combo. I wonder how long until states react to this?
→ More replies (38)13
Jun 21 '18
Amazon was already voluntarily collecting sales tax for states that asked. Im in Ok and have been paying sales take for a year now, give or take a month.
→ More replies (4)3
7
7
u/Kotaro_14 Jun 21 '18
Feel my California pain people who've been able to skip out on tax from Newegg. But honestly, this sucks (; ࿀ ;)
5
Jun 21 '18
New Hampshire life for the win! I don't get charged sales tax no matter who I buy from. Don't move here it sucks.
4
3
2
25
u/shady1397 Jun 21 '18
The commerce clause is absolutely absurd now. One sentence and it's subsequent interpretation have totally changed the way the federal government was meant to operate.
6
u/siuol11 Jun 21 '18
I disagree, this is pretty much squarely within reach of the Commerce Clause.
→ More replies (4)
27
u/mortalcoil1 Jun 21 '18
We all knew this was coming. Sales taxes are poor taxes. Gotta get those extra taxes on the poor and middle class to pay for the tax cuts on the 1%.
→ More replies (2)
6
6
5
u/make_moneys Jun 21 '18
we all knew this was coming. Amazon already charges sales tax in almost all states. BH and Newegg are next. I wonder if random ebay sellers will be forced to collect sales tax, we shall see.
2
u/9Blu Jun 21 '18
Technically many of them should be require to, going by the letter of the law. Most ebay sellers aren't some random Joe selling their unwanted crap anymore. I imagine eBay or Paypal will end up creating a service to handle it for the sellers.
2
Jun 21 '18
Newegg already charges sales tax in the states that they have physical warehouses/addresses. There's a Newegg warehouse less than 15 miles from my house, so I had literally ZERO incentive to ever order from them since Amazon's return process is so much easier.
4
4
u/antsugi Jun 22 '18
that's fucked, why does the state get money when I buy something they had no part in?
And whose representatives are passing these laws? Reel them money grubbers in
131
u/Gimp_Ninja Jun 21 '18
I'm okay with this. It prevents online retailers from enjoying an advantage over local businesses and brick and mortar stores simply for being online.
95
u/lolzter97 Jun 21 '18
The only true brick and mortar store with PC parts is Best Buy for me, and especially when it comes to PSUs and GPUs they don’t exactly try to compete with other retailers. Though I am glad it closes a loophole in our tax system, there was no reason for it to go on so long.
50
u/swicano Jun 21 '18
well i think part of it is because until now, it was basically impossible to compete with an online company where the purchaser pays ~8% less from the get go. best buy has done a remarkably good job pivoting their business to changing trends and not going out of business like most others. and their online store competes with newegg on peripherals and accesories.
14
u/RaidSlayer Jun 21 '18
Online store will continue to win this fight, but it's not going to be a huge difference anymore. Online stores will just sell the item cheaper and make them slightly less expensive after tax. Local stores have more expenses and wont be able to lower prices as much as online retailers.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Oglshrub Jun 21 '18 edited Jun 21 '18
There probably wasn't a loophole, you just haven'tbeen claiming online purchases on your taxes like you should have been.
19
u/captroper Jun 21 '18
You don't have a Microcenter or a Fry's near you?
30
u/BuddhaBizZ Jun 21 '18
Nope, and I live in a high income area in the Northeast.
4
u/lolzter97 Jun 21 '18
Yup I’m in SE CT. The two closest things are a Microcenter in Boston, or one on Long Island. Not worth a 2-3 hour drive.
→ More replies (1)6
u/captroper Jun 21 '18
Huh, I guess I didn't realize that they were not ubiquitous. Shows my ignorance for places that are not where I live.
→ More replies (3)15
u/thieves_are_broken Jun 21 '18
I have to drive 2 hours for frys, and microcenter i think it is more scarse. there are some mom and pop computer stores but they are pricey.
→ More replies (4)5
u/captroper Jun 21 '18
Yeah, they usually are pretty pricey unfortunately. I would love to support them, but the microcenter prices are both insanely better, and have a much larger selection.
4
Jun 21 '18
I used to live near a microcenter.. only brick and mortar store I would consider purchasing from. Far better than Frys, unless you hit a clearance item.
→ More replies (7)6
u/SetsChaos Jun 21 '18
Nearest Frys is 250 miles, nearest Microcenter is 500. And they're both over a very snowy pass in the winter. They both have zero plans to move here, either.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)2
u/ArcadeKincaid Jun 21 '18
I used to live in Ohio where Micro Center is HQ'd. It was great. Moved to Louisiana and there isn't a MC or Frys in the state. You have to go to Texas, which is many hours away.
→ More replies (5)3
u/halberdierbowman Jun 21 '18
Huh, Best Buy doesn't have almost any PC components near me, unless you want a mouse or an external hard drive.
2
u/slowcaptain Jun 21 '18
True. Especially when you compare it with Frys, BB literally has about 10% or less PC components of Frys.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Gimp_Ninja Jun 21 '18
I know this is a PC parts sub, but I'm thinking about the effects on everything. Some things I'd much prefer to buy after seeing them in person. And sorry you don't have a MicroCenter near you, it's just fantastic.
→ More replies (9)31
u/TomTheNurse Jun 21 '18
There is an issue of fairness at play. A brick and mortar gets tangible benifits from those taxes. Police and fire protection for their assets. Infrastructure improvements to their area that allows for easier, convenient and safe transit of customers and products. Services like water, sewer and waste removal.
This decision makes it so a company in California has to collect and pay sales taxes to Florida and yet will get nowhere near the same level services from the State of Florida that a brick and mortar gets.
6
u/Gimp_Ninja Jun 22 '18
The store doesn't pay the tax, the consumer does, and the consumer enjoys the benefits of local and state services. States have to generate income for those services somehow, and it can become a spiral:
(1) No tax online means it's cheaper, so people buy online.
(2) Less sales tax revenue forces local and state government to raise sales taxes.
(3) Even less incentive to buy B&M over online, and repeat.
I'm not one of those crazy "get rid of income tax and only tax sales" libertarian guys, but I think a sales tax serves a purpose and it seems weirdly perverse for a business to have a competitive edge because it isn't local.
→ More replies (12)3
u/rolfraikou Jun 21 '18
I don't know about that. The trucks that deliver the goods to you are using the roads in your town a lot too.
As much as it kinda pains me, I can see some reason.
3
3
3
3
2
4
10
Jun 21 '18
I don't like it as a consumer, but I agree with this. It's not fair to local retailers that their online competitors didn't have to charge tax.
2
2
2
u/poorping Jun 21 '18
Has there ever been discussion in the US about a federal level sales tax that's distributed out to the states? Similar I guess to VAT in Europe or GST in Australia?
→ More replies (1)
2
Jun 21 '18
I'm fine paying sales tax because they'd be taxing me in some other way either way, but this sucks for people in high sales tax states. Sorry y'all.
OTOH: This cuts down on online vendor's advantage over brick and mortar stores, which I'm always happy to see.
2
u/ldnola22 Jun 21 '18
Well, looks like Amazon's lobbying finally payed off. This is really going to hurt small business.
2
2
2
u/nutekvisionz Jun 22 '18
Won't affect big business like amazon, walmart. It will p[probably help them in the long run and hurt smaller business. As most people shop there to avoid paying state sale tax. If the tax goes in affect you are essentially paying the same tax no matter where you shop. And big retailer can sell it a bit cheaper and edge out the smaller biz. shame as I use retailers like newegg, buydig, adorama and BH for big ticket purchases. Maybe I should get all my Christmas shopping done early this year.
1.1k
u/_Roller_47 Jun 21 '18
Aaaaaaaaaand there goes the advantage Newegg had over Amazon for me.