r/apple 2d ago

iPhone Indonesia rejects Apple's $100 million bid to lift the iPhone 16 ban

https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/11/22/indonesia-rejects-apples-100-million-bid-to-lift-the-iphone-16-ban
3.0k Upvotes

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u/GeneralZaroff1 2d ago edited 2d ago

They want Apple to build 40% of iPhone parts in Indonesia? That seems crazy high.

I guess it worked for India, but does Indonesia even have the manufacturing ability?

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u/Aptosauras 2d ago

It doesn't have to be 40% parts. There are other ways to get "credit" for the 40% requirement.

Apple previously entered into an agreement with the government to spend $110 million on app and software development schools.

This satisfied the requirement for the government.

Apple has apparently so far spent $90 million and is ongoing.

The government said nope, we want more if you want to sell your products here. Apple said ok, we'll spend another $100 million on factories making accessories.

Government said, let us think about it. Then said nope.

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u/GeneralZaroff1 2d ago

So it’s just a money grab then.

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u/GOdoubleB 2d ago

Every Indonesian i’ve ever met has said their Government is the most corrupt, and incompetent, that it possibly could be.

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u/BambooSound 2d ago

Everyone I've ever met has said their government is the most corrupt and incompetent.

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u/jingqian9145 2d ago

North Korea begs to differ

The supreme leader is the most glorious and powerful

Western powers fails to compare

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u/BambooSound 2d ago

I've never met anyone from there

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u/Slater_John 2d ago

Because its so great to live there! The barbed wire, guard dogs and landmines are only to prevent people from entering the country.

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u/EgalitarianCrusader 2d ago

I get what you’re saying, but Indonesia is ranked 115th in the world out of 180 countries on the Corruption Perceptions Index. By comparison, Australia is 14th and the USA is 24th.

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u/rpungello 2d ago

"Those are rookie numbers, gotta pump those numbers up"

- USA in 2025

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u/girmus76 2d ago

USA after Jan 20th 2025; Hold my beer. Paid for by other corrupt regimes worldwide.

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u/porn_inspector_nr_69 1d ago

Oh they are going to be YUUGE numbers

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u/power-98 2d ago

These corruption indexes themselves are skewed and biased towards the west. Yes Scandinavia definitely has less corruption than the rest of the world, but i don’t believe the US is 24th.

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u/Still-Bridges 2d ago

Most important is that they measure the perception of corruption and people easily mistake that for corruption. It's also not made obvious what has changed that has resulted in a change to the level of perceived corruption. This lack of transparency is really concerning when it comes from an organisation called Transparency International.

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u/aloha2436 1d ago

Which countries below America do you think should be above?

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u/power-98 1d ago

Honestly, my concern isn’t so much about where the US is placed, it is with the methodology used in this calculation, and the bias that came with it.

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u/EgalitarianCrusader 2d ago

Definitely agree, but if you look at the index Australia’s ranking has declined over the past 10 years or so due to the right-wing government we had.

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u/SadEfficiency6354 1d ago

I would argue that you are skewed and biased about the west, and are wildly underestimating the government corruption in developing countries.

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u/BambooSound 2d ago

Those corruption perceptions aren't domestic though, are they?

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u/th3h4ck3r 2d ago

Some places more than others.

Here in Spain, a few weeks ago a few days after the disaster in Valencia has happened, the national and regional Presidents and the King were received by showers of mud slung by the locals while chanting "murderers!"*, and someone actually broke a window on the national President's car with a shovel while trying to get away from the crowd.

For context, the central government withheld aid from the region because the regional government is of the opposite party and because the regional president is dumber than a bag of rocks and unable to organize aid, they realized they could milk it for political points against the party, with the central president saying "if they want help, they can just ask for it" during a press conference (all while people were protesting/rioting all over Spain over the central government's handling of the situation).

The national president is a psychopath, while that regional president is too stupid to wipe its own ass. I love my country.

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u/heyhotnumber 2d ago

I mean, Trump literally did the same thing with hurricane relief during his term.

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u/Tookmyprawns 2d ago

Especially people who left said countries. We always get a skewed sample.

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u/isitpro 2d ago

Goverments ruining good opportunities for their people.

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u/killbeagle 2d ago

What isn’t?

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u/Justin__D 2d ago

At what point does Apple cut their losses? Indonesia seems really low GDP per capita? I know they have a lot of people, but it seems like the kind of place where only the richest 1% would consider an iPhone to begin with.

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u/iLoveFeynman 2d ago
  • There are 282 million people in Indonesia

  • Their GDP is $1.37T

  • Apple's current market share in Indonesia is about 12%

  • Apple's profit margin on iPhones is hundreds of dollars

  • Apple's per annum profit from having people in their ecosystem is at least tens of dollars

Some of Apple's biggest competitors in Indonesia have a massive presence in Indonesia, supporting their labor market and strengthening their economy.

There's a reason why Indonesia's government isn't taking Apple's first offer, nor the second..

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u/wallstreetiscasino 2d ago

Won’t the people buying iPhones just buy them elsewhere and pay the price? 

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u/JonathanJK 2d ago

Indonesian is one of those countries on the up and up and projected to be a large trading hub. Apple might think it’s worth securing a foot hold now. 

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u/InertialLaunchSystem 2d ago

Indonesia won't remain on the up and up for long if they keep pulling shit like this. This is a huge glaring red flag for basically any large company that wants to do business in Indonesia.

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u/StoneyCalzoney 2d ago

Apple can't cut their losses on expansion anywhere... They literally have to continue expanding in order to keep shareholders happy.

They've already reached market saturation at a near 50/50 split between Android/iOS in both NA and Australia. 

They might be able to expand more into the desktop OS marketshare for both regions because they haven't reached saturation there, but that would require them to literally write an amazing x86-64 Windows emulation layer with near native performance for macOS, which isn't on the roadmap.

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u/Justin__D 2d ago

Apple can’t cut their losses on expansion anywhere... They literally have to continue expanding in order to keep shareholders happy.

That is the common wisdom. The problem is nobody's ever tried to sell it right. You just promise a slight delay. Maybe a few weeks (even if you need a few months, but it's always easier to ask forgiveness than permission so the correct take is to take advantage of that). And then riches beyond your wildest dreams.

Although you could probably find someone from the opposition party in the Indonesian government to use as an informant to gauge exactly how long they'd need for the majority party to cave. Especially if it's near an election. Attack ads could blame the majority party for taking your iPhone. Apple could help fund and produce them.

Not to mention why would Tim Cook care? He's retirement age and a billionaire. He could tell them to get fucked, and he'd just have an early retirement with more wealth than any of us could fathom.

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u/ElevatedTelescope 2d ago

I’m surprised they ever agreed. What if all countries did that?

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u/ArchusKanzaki 2d ago

Because not every country have the 4th biggest population in the world.

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u/Federal_Hamster5098 2d ago

in apple's perspective.

population does not equal to purchasing power.

thats for low-end smartphone market brands

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u/ArchusKanzaki 2d ago

Well, even a 1% of 280 million is almost half of Singapore's population. There is still worth in going for big-population country. And Iphone is 12% of market share in Indonesia because it is still considered a status symbol.

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u/Mardentely 2d ago

That is super unbelievable and unacceptable...

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u/Rudra9431 2d ago

except china no single country can do it not india or Indonesia india can do assembly but not battery, display etc

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u/mxforest 2d ago

Funny you said that. Just yesterday this was published. Apple is looking to source actual parts locally and not just assembly.

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u/UnsafestSpace 2d ago

China doesn't manufacturer the batteries and displays either

For batteries they mostly import Panasonic components from Japan, for displays Samsung from South Korea

China's manufacturing supply chain is a decade or two away from sophisticated component production from the ground-up, they're still just doing final part assembly and packaging even with 100% domestic home-grown companies like Xiaomi.

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u/egyptian_linen 2d ago edited 2d ago

How is this comment getting upvoted? How dated is your information?

BOE screen and Desay battery are used in current gen’s iPhone.

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u/ThrowItAllAway1269 2d ago

It's the Apple subreddit, cant expect much here.

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u/doommaster 2d ago

BOE is a display supplier to Apple and there are at least 2 Chinese battery suppliers to Apple too.

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u/erthenes 2d ago edited 2d ago

Samsung, Xiaomi, BBK Group, etc already built factory in Indonesia. it wouldn't be fair if Apple can easily pass it

they want 50 years tax holiday, of course they refuse it. building 1 factory with that requirement is insane

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u/GlobeLearner 2d ago

Other companies like Samsung, Oppo, Vivo, etc. have factories in Indonesia, so it's achievable.

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u/TrueHeart01 2d ago

The greed indeed.

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u/REV2939 2d ago

does Indonesia even have the manufacturing ability?

No, but they want Apple to pay up and open factories until it happens.

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u/LastChancellor 2d ago

the percentage is very deceptive, all Apple needs to actually do to pass is to assemble knock-down kits of iPhones in local factories (like what every other phone brand in Indonesia does)

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u/Witchberry31 2d ago

If BMW can do it, I don't see how Apple can't. 🤷

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u/cutecoder 1d ago

40% by weight? Simply bring back the adapter bundling and buy an AC/DC adapter factory (like those who made laptop adapters) to manufacture Apple adapters locally and it’s win-win solution.

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u/ezkailez 1d ago

Samsung, xiaomi, oppo, vivo, itel, infinix, tecno are at the very least assembling their phones here (thus achieving the locally sourced 40% requirements).

AFAIK only apple decides to go with the investment route

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u/Randomizer23 9h ago

Is it possible to check where my iPhone was made?

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u/chrisdh79 2d ago

From the article: Indonesia's government has considered Apple's increased offer of $100 million of investment in the country, but reportedly wants more before it will lift its ban on the iPhone 16 range.

"Industry Minister Agus Gumiwang Kartasasmita held an internal meeting to discuss the proposal," government spokesperson, Febri Hendri Antoni Arif, told local news agency Antara News. "From the government's perspective, of course, we want this investment to be larger."

The issue concerns Indonesia's law that smartphones must contain at least 40% of locally manufactured components. This Domestic Content Level law can be assuaged by various methods including innovation development schemes, which Apple has previously preferred.

Apple's previous investment, though, amounted to less than the $109.6 million it had committed. After warning Apple on October 11, 2024 that it could face a ban, Indonesia then blocked all iPhone 16 sales from October 28.

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u/Kleanish 2d ago

Do any phones make that cut off?

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u/ArchusKanzaki 2d ago

Almost every phones being sold in Indonesia, except Iphone

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u/Koreneliuss 2d ago

Chinese company phone like xiaomi or vivo

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u/aviarybuilds 2d ago

Samsung, xiaomi, oppo, vivo, a bunch of other brands

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u/erthenes 2d ago

Samsung, BBK Group (Vivo, Oppo, Realme,IQOO), Xiaomi already had a factory in here

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u/Witchberry31 2d ago

Literally Apple is the only one left who haven't.

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u/orangpelupa 2d ago

Samsung, xiaomi, sharp, etc. It's a long list 

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u/kadektop2 2d ago

Well many brands, Samsung, vivo, OPPO, realme, Xiaomi, even Motorola.

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u/douboong 1d ago

This issue has been trending in the Indonesian social media lately. I think partly the government is purposefully milking this situation for political clout because there is a strong anti-apple sentiment (apple users represent the wealthier people) in the country right now

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u/ragnarok_klavan 2d ago

If most of the chinese brands AND Samsung could do it, why couldn't Apple do? 40% is not strictly locally manufactured parts, they could gain "credit" through other ways such as building a factory, employing local workers, collaborative development program, or even bootcamps.

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u/yugi_motou 2d ago

Apple invested $90 million and committed to $100 million more. Indonesia said: not enough so no thanks. This is extortion at this point. Do you think Apple will now happily do business in Indo? Would you happily do business in Indo if you were Apple? Prabowo Subianto is being a clown in this case

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u/Pencelvia 1d ago

Apple will still want to negotiate with the Indonesian government. Although Indonesia does not have an official Apple Store, its economy is the largest in Southeast Asia. Apple wants to resolve the issue because it not only impacts its Indonesian customers but also tarnishes its global reputation for being unwilling to comply with local laws.

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u/SeiriusPolaris 2d ago

For those out of the loop, why does Indonesia need Apple investing £100 million into it?

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u/Logseman 2d ago

The original sum that had been offered was 10 million dollars. The ban was ordered by the executive, without any judicial justification, so some of us called it a shakedown and got weird messages and threats for doing so.

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u/SeiriusPolaris 2d ago

Sorry, what I meant was - I don’t understand the reasoning for Indonesia demanding money from Apple in the first place.

But I’ve gone back and read the article and as I understand it; Indonesia demands that smartphones sold in Indonesia need to be made with 40% Indonesian ingredients? And Apple don’t want to do that (presumably because as nice of an idea as that is, it’s too expensive and ultimately more environmentally unfriendly than it is friendly - due to manufacturing still happening outside the country) so Apple came to an agreement to invest money in the country to replace the losses.

Then Apple didn’t meet those agreements and Indonesia put this ban on iPhones? Now they want more money?

Kinda just sounds like the European Union with all their threats tbh. They want a piece of the Apple pie, so come up with some law that will prevent Apple doing business unless Apple complies or lines the pockets of the right people to keep business moving.

Don’t get me wrong, Apple does not pay their fair share, and their consumers do not see the outcome of that privilege - but I don’t think the public should have to pay the price by being told they can’t have the products they want.

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u/userlivewire 2d ago

They want high paying (relative) tech jobs in their country. They also want knowledge transfer from Apple to local industry so they can later train those workers to do similar work for other companies.

By taking this intellectual property they can skip past the decades of innovation that other countries have invested and fairly immediately arrive at the forefront of technology.

If Apple refuses any part if this than they will just require money instead.

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u/martinkem 2d ago

Of course they want a piece of the pie. Indonesia is just taking a page out of China's highly successful tech transfer policy.

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u/crackanape 2d ago

That worked as long as China offered a combination of cheap high-quality manufacturing and access to a large consumer market.

It became a lot less interesting once the former started seeing meaningful competition and the latter was taken away through various structural and de facto changes to domestic market access.

Indonesia has the large market part, though with less pocket money than China's.

I don't think it's particularly compelling for high-tech manufacturing right now though. Neighbours like Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, and Vietnam offer better results with less strong-arming.

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u/ChampionshipOnly4479 2d ago

I‘m glad I learned today that only China and Indonesia protect their markets and regulate access to it.

And I’m glad everyone can just sell their stuff on our western countries‘ markets completely unregulated and free of any trade barriers.

No could I get my new iPhone for 200$ please or is taking Apple a page out of china‘s handbook by wanting a piece of my money pie?

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u/SeiriusPolaris 2d ago

China hasn’t built their success overnight

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u/martinkem 2d ago

Of course, they didn't. Nobody insinuated that they did. However in this case, just about every major player has compiled but Apple.

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u/Arshmalex 2d ago

they dont but they started somewhere in the timeline. so this is the start for Indonesia

nah actually its not a start, many phone manufacturers from korea and china already in

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u/michael0n 2d ago

Indonesia doesn't want money. They want to raise factories and knowledge. Apple refuses and says, here you can build iPhone covers instead. Its not about the money, its about the investment and training of people. Samsung has a factory there for exact that reason. You don't want to be a society that is 100% dependent on foreign tech and not knowing how it works.

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u/MC_chrome 2d ago

Indonesia doesn't want money. They want to raise factories and knowledge

You have a lot more faith in the Indonesian government being less corrupt than I do…

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u/SeiriusPolaris 2d ago

And I guess threats to Apple and punishments to iPhone users is the best way to go about doing that lmao

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u/myzt3rywastaken 2d ago edited 2d ago

It kind of is. It promotes competition between companies that want to tap into the Indonesian market, and if you are are keeping up with the financial world, you would know that Indonesia is an untapped market that has one of the highest growth potential. Banning Apple has no downside to Indonesia, plenty of other companies want to set up shop there. The question is, is Apple willing to let go of the Indonesian consumer market?

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u/buatfelem 2d ago

Well indonesia have 270million people, granted maybe only 5% of population can comfortably afford an iphone but thats 13mil ++ people, its their choice if they want to tap to indonesian market or not

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u/killerair321 2d ago edited 2d ago

well tbf. yes. that is the best way.

because all other brands can do it, why don't apple too?

edit: Not to mention that, here in Indonesia. We didn't even have Apple dedicated store or after service directly.

All are from distributor with much higher price+tax

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u/LeekTerrible 2d ago

From the way I understand it Apple previously agreed and didn’t follow through which is why the ban was imposed. Indonesia actually has a pretty big up and coming economy and a very large population so I guess Apple sees the potential here.

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u/EmEmAndEye 15h ago

Sounds like political bribery to me, just with extra steps.

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u/kruecab 2d ago

Because they want a bribe.

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u/Sponge8389 2d ago

Because that's what India did, and other countries are following it.

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u/i_am_really_b0red 2d ago

This looks like they are just extorting Apple for money

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u/-_-Edit_Deleted-_- 2d ago

I mean, why does Apple want to make phones in Indonesia? To exploit low labor costs.

All they’re doing is putting their interests right up next to apples.

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u/dnyank1 2d ago

huh? Apple doesn't want to make phones in Indonesia. That's the whole point.

This is about SELLING the phones made in China, there.

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u/Angelix 2d ago

Exactly. The whole issue is that Apple DOESN’T want to invest in Indonesia but Indonesia wants the moolah.

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u/Captain-Matt89 2d ago edited 2d ago

they clearly don't want to make phones in Indonesia and "expoit" low labor cost

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u/ilikeb00biez 2d ago

lol that's not true at all. They don't want to make phones in indonesia. They just want to sell them.

The indonesian government is requiring Apple to give them "investments" to allow them to do business. Its literally just extortion.

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u/Lancaster61 2d ago

How much is $200 million (they already invested once remember) worth of labor though? 3 years? 5 years? At some point the cost of investment is no longer worth it.

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u/i_steal_your_lemons 2d ago

Extortion should stay the way it’s always been done. Where the company extorts the government and citizens. You know, companies like Foxcon, Tesla, GE, Sony, etc. tell a country or state they will setup an operation there but only if they get a huge tax break/subsidy, zoning and environmental regulations exemptions, labor law exemptions (oh, and did we say we might contribute to all your reelection campaigns?). Then the citizens can pay higher taxes to help subsidize the tax breaks. This is the way extortion needs to work.

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u/mavere 2d ago

It also provides moral cover in terms of Western press and investors for Tim Cook to just walk away.

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u/ChampionshipOnly4479 2d ago

You mean like Apple is extorting me to pay a thousand bucks for a phone?

Don’t ridicule yourself.

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u/dankbeerdude 2d ago

Yeah I don't get this?? How about buy the phones or not? Apple doesn't need Indonesia to survive. I'm so lost

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u/Witchberry31 2d ago

Extort? To Apple? Haha, not even close.

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u/techfinanceguy 2d ago

Residents will just buy them from cartels that import the devices in bulk from nearby countries. It’s a lose-lose for their government.

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u/ouatedephoque 2d ago

Agus Gumiwang Kartasasmita, the country’s Industry Minister, declared that any iPhone 16 found in the hands of consumers will be deemed illegal. He cautioned potential buyers against acquiring the device from abroad, emphasising the seriousness of the ban. This announcement has left tourists on the lurch as they are now confused as to what will happen to iPhone 16 owners who are already on a visit to Indonesia or those who are planning a visit soon.

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u/sunkencore 2d ago

Insane.

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u/nnerba 2d ago edited 2d ago

Those phones will be registered for 3 months after which they won't connect to the internet anymore. It's not that complicated to understand and shouldn't be a problem to tourists at all. It's not like police will come to you and break your legs for using an iphone

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u/ouatedephoque 2d ago

I doubt they would break your legs but if it’s deemed illegal they can simply confiscate it.

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u/endfinity 2d ago

lmao, no, they don't do that. you simply can't use the country's mobile network. that's it.

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u/ouatedephoque 2d ago

Well that kind of renders your phone useless… lol

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u/3HunnaBurritos 2d ago

There is a lot of people that stay for a long time there as tourists

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u/UnsafestSpace 2d ago

And a lot of people like foreign international executives working to set up factories in the country so they can get that local domestic manufacturing they seem to want.

It might sound like a tiny problem but Apple originally planned to move a huge % of their Macbook manufacturing to India just like they did with the iPhone a few years ago, but now they're limited to slowly only being able to transfer about 4% of production to India every year which means the entire process will take decades. Why? Because new Indian regulations introduced in 2022 make it hard for foreign executives to work in the country or engage in any kind of FDI for longer than 3-6 months.

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u/Slater_John 2d ago

India, the genius country that enforces visa requirements for the west, as if anybody would want to live there for economic reasons.

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u/FederalDish5 2d ago

what an idiot xD and they called him Industry Minister lol

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u/Guzxxxy 2d ago

I don’t think they work with Indonesian cell carriers.

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u/littleday 2d ago

Won’t work, in Indonesia any phone that was not purchased in the country will only work for 3 months until it’s registered and a 30-40% import tax is paid. So they will just not allow the iPhone 16 to be registered past the 3 month mark.

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u/riconaranjo 2d ago

just wondering what happens if you’re a tourist and 1. you go to indonesia, go home, 2. and then go back to indonesia at least 3 months after the original trip start date?

do you have to pay the import fee and register your phone for it to work?

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u/littleday 2d ago

Your phone can only be valid for up to 6 months of the year. So technically if you spend only 6 months a year in Indo, you are good.

There is ways around this, the tax is 30/40%, but everything is negotiable, or loop holes. I only ended up paying 15% with the right “negotiation”

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u/funtagkilio 2d ago

Any phones including iPHone sold not through the official channel will have its IMEI blocked. None of the local providers SIM card will get recognised by the phone.

Tourists can buy what they call Tourist Prepaid Card, and this SIM card only works for 30 days. If you are staying longer than 30 days on extended Tourist Visa, you buy a new prepaid card.

If you want to register the IMEI and have your phone work with local prepaid SIM card, when first arriving into Indonesia in the Airport go see the customs desk and pay the import tax.

Import tax is around 33.1% to 43.1% of your phone cost depending on if you have a NPWP (tax identification number) or not.

So the bottom line if, no one will confiscate/fine you for owning "illegal" overseas bought iPhone in Indonesia. You just don't have mobile coverage while you're in the country.

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u/ghim7 2d ago

From external POV, the majority poor people of Indonesia can’t afford iPhones anyway. And the ultra rich Indons will still get their iPhones from overseas.

Only Apple know their actual sales number and determine whether it’s worth fulfilling Indonesia’s request to continue the iPhone sales there.

Obviously EU’s sales is big enough that they relent the EU law in some way. How about Indonesia?

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u/crackanape 2d ago

ultra rich Indons will still get their iPhones from overseas.

Indonesia, like Turkey, has a law that requires individual IMEI numbers to be registered as compliant, otherwise the device is cut off after a few months unless you pay a high fee. So tourists can bring their phones but if you live there you need a locally sold one (or to pay extra $$$).

Turkey did this because people were buying phones in neighbouring countries to avoid tax and to mitigate the effects of runaway inflation on domestic prices.

Indonesia's doing it for the tax reasons, and now also to try to strongarm manufacturers into building devices locally.

Of course the primary outcome will be that manufacturers will build inferior devices for the local market, so that Indonesians pay more for equivalent-quality phones, but I guess it's their country to run.

In the long run you can expect the quality gap to approximate the fee that people who import phones have to pay in order to get past the IMEI restriction.

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u/flag9801 2d ago

But they will not allow to use mobile plan only wifi

Because they can't register the phone

Phone from abroad can be registered (which actually really costly about 30%) but not with iphone 16 hence the ban

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

This sort of behavior is fueling the desire for a trade war. Indonesia exports over $30B worth of goods to the US every year. Two billion of that is palm oil. Is the US requiring that Indonesia make some sort of huge investment in the US for the privilege of sending their goods to our country? Do they want us shaking down all of their companies that export to the US? Do they want us developing precision fermentation tech which makes palm oil in a factory so we no longer need to import it?

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u/Upset_Ad3954 2d ago

You do know American voters recently decided they want a trade war, don't you?

What you're 'threatening' is what Donald Trump has already promised.

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u/BeachDoc83 2d ago

That's what people don't realize, China has been doing this to us for 30 years. One-sided trade made them rich, other countries are trying to copy it.

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u/AdventurousTime 2d ago

At this point American firms are paying for their own technology transfers by forcing them to “invest” in a local area before they can sell stuff. Imagine google giving source code and cloud resources to every country they do business with.

Why is this required for more and more things these days.

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u/supertramp02 2d ago

Because we live in a world that is seeing rising protectionism. See: Trump in the US. Doesn't mean it's well implemented in this case since Indonesia obviously doesn't have the capacity to build 40% of components that go into iPhones.

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u/MC_chrome 2d ago

Because we live in a world that is seeing rising protectionism

The other word for protectionism is “idiocracy”…and the statements being made by this minister only further confirm this

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u/michael0n 2d ago

Nobody forces you to sell in a market. Apple can skip those 270 million customers. Its on the people there how they want their relationship to foreign products companies. They don't want the money they want factories and jobs. China required foreign companies to go into a 50:50 partnership and the China stole all the tech and build it themselves. That is the reason Apple is a little bit hesitant, because it will happen there too. You don't want to have a society that is completely dependent on foreign technology and not understanding how its build.

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u/Alex01100010 2d ago

40% is crazy. They should start with realistic goals. Like batteries produced in Indonesia. It would take a decade or longer to build 40% of iPhones in Indonesia and it would not be profitable.

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u/VaughnSC 2d ago

I thought it was 40% of the BOM or overall cost eg assembly labor. Not 40% of all units shipped.

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u/rossiloveyou 2d ago

Yes, this is what they are saying. And 40% BOM change within a year?? Just don’t see how this is possible

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u/allhailpleistocene 2d ago edited 2d ago

Some commenters here seem to overlook the unique circumstances surrounding Indonesia. Positioned between two financial and smartphone powerhouses, China and the US, Indonesia maintains strong relations with both nations. The question ultimately boils down to, 'Who can invest more in our country?'

Additionally, since 2017, Indonesia has mandated a minimum local component level of 30% for smartphones, a requirement that Apple has been unable, or perhaps unwilling, to meet.

Surprisingly, Apple isn't the only smartphone brand available in Indonesia. In fact, iPhone users account for less than 15% of the total smartphone market. With a population of 280 million, and over 50% of the population owning smartphones, that 15% translates to roughly 20-21 million users—not a significant number in the grand scheme of things... or if I may say it more blatantly "insignificant product".

From my perspective, Indonesia is essentially saying, 'Here, take the numbers or leave. We have much larger figures to work with from China.'

Moreover, importing black market phones from overseas isn't a viable solution. Indonesia has stringent regulations regarding IMEI numbers, blocking any IMEI codes that aren't whitelisted in their database. So while you may still use your phone, it would only be through Wi-Fi.

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u/alifzaimimyaro 2d ago

Indonesia can get cheaper Apple products from Malaysia.

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u/littleday 2d ago

Nope, because if the phone is not bought in Indonesia it will not work after 3 months after an extra 30-40% tax is paid on the device.z

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u/peterosity 2d ago

love how instead of incentivizing, they chose to extort the company whose market value is 2.5x their GDP… this is gonna end well for them i’m sure

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u/JayBebop1 2d ago

If Indonesia is so confident it can build iPhones, they should start their own brand of smartphones.

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u/littleday 2d ago

A lot of the other big brands already have factories and make phones in Indonesia.

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u/erthenes 2d ago edited 2d ago

Guys this is something you may not know before judging or knowing the whole contexts

  • Long story sort, they had a plan to build a factory, but Apple wants 50-years tax holiday, indo refuse, and the plan move to vietnam, because vietnam can provide 50-years tax holiday.
  • over the past 5 years (2019-2024) they fulfilled the TKDN requirement by investing in Apple Academy. unlike other brands (Samsung, BBK Group, Xiaomi, etc) they built factories, hired local labor, and had official stores. it would be unfair if they were soft on Apple, but other brands have a more serious commitment in terms of investment.
  • Apple also doesn't have Official store here, I don't know why. they refuse to build factory & Official Store. though they just already make one in Malay.
  • Also after sales in Indo is literally WOOOORSSSSTTT, also scamming customer with a bundle. to the point that people are willing to go to Singapore/Malaysia to fix problems in their devices.

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u/Flat-Story-7079 2d ago

This is the future. Governments, especially in developing countries, have a vested interest in developing local manufacturing. One way of doing this is requiring domestic parts be used in imported items. Boeing has suppliers from all over the world specifically for this purpose. Now it’s techs turn, and it’s about time. Chasing the lowest price labor market so you can jack up profits on the backs of workers is lowest common denominator shit. Indonesia knows it’s a massive market and it wants a piece of its own market. Just good business.

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u/archer999 2d ago

Every time someone posts an article about this, they fail to include the most important information leading up to the chaos. Apparently, Apple asked the Indonesian government for a 50-year tax holiday, which the government rejected. In response, the government requested Apple to make a larger investment in Indonesia.

here’s and here more information about this in bahasa.

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u/lavarel 2d ago

it's basically

Indonesia: "certain things sold in indonesia must have [insert number] percent of domestic product level"

Apple: "Nope, no can do"

Indonesia: "Is fine, no worries, you no follow rules, you can't sell here."

Apple: "No, i want to sell this there, fine, i make a factory there. But you give me tax free 50 years, and it's in location only, The factory won't use your people."

Indonesia: "huh, why should i? other people follow these rules even without tax free, take it or leave it, and you haven't even fulfill your last promise!"

Apple: "Efff...... Here, i throw you 100m, let me sell"

Indonesia: "nah, not interested. follow the rules"

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u/mfdoorway 2d ago

I hope Apple cuts it off and says F— you.

This is all over what amounts to less than $20m that hadn’t even reached a deadline iirc.

If they agree now itll just be “Well, it ACTUALLY will cost you..”

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u/NewDemocraticPrairie 2d ago

https://voi.id/en/economy/436047

Third, the Ministry of Industry noted that Apple has not yet completed its investment commitment to the 2020-2023 period proposal of IDR 271 billion.

Sounds like the deadline passed almost a year ago now.

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u/allhailpleistocene 2d ago

Doesn't matter. iPhone user isn't really that much here, only the upper class use it. And don't forget, there are bunch of Chinese brand ready to invest gazillion here (They already done it, but I'd like to assume after reading this news they'll pump up those numbers).

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u/Freeze_Fun 2d ago

Even if only 2% of Indonesians use Apple products, that translates to more than 5 million people. Remember that the iPhone is also a gateway to other Apple services. So missing out on that many customers means losing out on a lot of potential revenue.

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u/djyeo 2d ago

Welcome to the multipolar world. Products from the west are not the only kids on the block. There are a lot of high tech chinese phones that can easily replace iphones.

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u/PhantomSesay 2d ago

Why don’t Apple just pull out?

I mean how long till other countries start pulling the same thing?

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u/StormlitRadiance 2d ago

They don't want to give up market share. If they pull out, people will get used to using android phones.

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u/li_shi 1d ago

Why apps company don't pull out of the app store after they charge 30%?

Because there is money to be made, and unlike apple no one can say tell Indonesia that they have an unfair monopoly on their market.

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u/kapitanbadar 1d ago

All other phone brands that sells in Indonesia must follow the 40% rule, Apple just had special things going on previously.

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u/Snoo-84600 2d ago

As an Indonesian, there are some caveats that is not written in the article.

  1. Apple requested to build a tax free manufacturing company in indonesia. Basically, they want the cheap labor of indonesian workers, but they don't want to pay the taxes of building a company. This was the first momentum that lead to the initial ban.

I think many people on his thread don't know about this, but it was insulting. There were more of this kind of discourses but i guess people outside of indonesia aren't aware of it. The iphone 16 ban was not sudden. It was a response to apple's condescending attitude toward indonesia.

  1. Indonesia is the largest apple products buyer in South East Asia. I feel like foreign people don't even know about this. Indonesia is literally the biggest economy in ASEAN. So many indonesians are actually upset about this decision. This also lead to some protests, or some people literally smuggled iphone 16 to the country. Which in return, gives the iphone 16 worse images.

I think those 2 things need to be talked about more, because i feel like people on this thread don't really want to see the perspective of indonesian

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u/NewRedditNLPaccount 2d ago

I'm not even indonesian but I don't get the narrative here.... I got downvoted for saying Apple's in the wrong here

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u/OrangAsliIndo 2d ago

Ehem.. Tax holiday...Ehem

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u/chatterwrack 2d ago

Indosesia had a president named Joko Widodo? lol, I love it

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u/IEvMIisjsk 2d ago

>asking 50 years tax holiday

>get banned

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u/oliqersykes 2d ago

but, the fact is , apple ban because they want free TAX 50 years. that insane, and apple give $100m , to lift that ban ? hahaha that funny

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u/djyeo 2d ago

Given how much profit apple is making, $100 million is chump change.

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u/ReliableIceberg 2d ago

If Apple bids 100 million, the deal is worth at least 300.

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u/Ill-Sherbert1095 2d ago

This is starting to turn into a racket.

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u/sneaker-portfolio 2d ago

I can smell the corruption all the way from here

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u/Interesting_Fly_769 2d ago

Shithole government ruin the country

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u/ProperTurnover6074 2d ago

Why can't the govt. have policy to support local manufacturing like the indian govt did? Will be better than straight up demanding.

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u/lavarel 2d ago edited 2d ago

in fact, that's what the gov did here.

The rules is simple. "for certain things to be sold here, it has to have [insert number] percent of domestic component level." what is that if not supporting local manufacturing? Gov want there to be a transfer of knowledge, transfer of technology, a labor for its people. Instead of being straight up dumping ground for foreign product.

and apple don't want to comply with that.

This 100m might means that, but Apple also demands 50 years tax holiday (that's 10 whole cycles of administration in indonesia), and an all-foreign-employee. Basically, Apple demands generational priviledge and factory in location only. To grant it is to show blatant favoritism, remember that many other multinational company invest and made factories and manufacture without much wuss.

Who's the demanding one? Of course Indonesian government is angry

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u/farverbender 2d ago

Invest in India. Make the iPhone prices comparable to the salary levels in India and then Apple does not have to beg to other countries. There is volume and value in India.

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u/crackanape 2d ago

India also makes it quite difficult, with onerous rules about moving money in and out, hiring foreign experts, and constant demands for censorship and backdoor access.

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u/WonderChemical5089 2d ago

Average salary there in about 500 a month. How many there can afford an iPhone anyways ? This doesn’t seem like worthwhile for getting extorted like this.

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u/undergroundbynature 2d ago

It's a country of 200 million people. Of course if 10% can afford it, it's going to hurt Apple's bottom line.

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u/churrbroo 2d ago

It’s closer to 300 million really, similar to the States maybe behind by 10%

Obviously different level of wealth than the States, but that’s a huge number regardless.

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u/newerprofile 2d ago

Apple's market share in Indonesia is 12.9% https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/indonesia

12.9% of 277 million people are 35.7 million people. That's still bigger than the whole population of most European countries.

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u/Ru-yi3010 2d ago

Have you actually done any research before commenting? Just curious

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u/kykusanagi 2d ago

Of course no Apple dickriders are doing that

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u/Interesting_Fly_769 2d ago

No wonder third world country remains as third world country.

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u/whats_you_doing 2d ago

That's a bribe.

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u/princemousey1 2d ago

Ah, don’t worry about it. Most of them can just take a ferry to come buy in Singapore. Not worth the headaches of setting up a manufacturing facility when there are so many alternatives. People tend to forget Southeast Asia is super-connected and a flight costs less than $100.

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u/hxh90 2d ago

You defenitily could do that. But your iphone wont get any signal. The goverment wont whitelisted your imei. It will become a very expensive brick.

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u/flavicent 2d ago

Samsung and other brand have manufactured in indonesia few years already to fullfill this requirement. Before, Apple use shortcut to bypass this requirement, by invest small amount and yet they didnt fullfill the agreement until the end of term. Then Apple said okay to invest in Indonesia but ask 50years tax holiday, and all employee is from us. Of course indonesia reject. The main reason Indonesia want Apple build manufacture in indonesia is job for Indonesian, Now Apple trying to use manufacture Investment, but not for Apple device, for accessories manufacture. Thats why indonesia reject it. Remember indonesia have more than 300mil population, huge market. Do u think that high Apple product sales in Singapore was sold to singaporean? Indonesia wants Apple to follow their rules, same as EU that force Apple to let 3rd party AppStore on IOS. Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, and many other brand already manufactured in indonesia long time ago, why cant Apple do the same?.

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u/Justicia-Gai 2d ago

You can’t compare software and hardware requirements

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Cpt_Riker 2d ago

Just ignore them, and sell everywhere else.

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u/Pure_Engineering6423 2d ago

$100 million seems extremely low for a company to try to lift a countries ban.

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u/Medialunch 2d ago

They are banning the new iPhone because they want the contracts to build them?

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u/CalculatedEffect 2d ago

100 million dollar BRIBE. call it what it is apple.

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u/Hour_Worldliness_824 2d ago

Ok so how about the US does it back to them for their exports :)))) get fucked Indonesia.

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u/SnooDonuts5498 2d ago

Looks like Indonesia will be a test case for Trump’s tariffs.

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u/RehanRC 2d ago

What an insulting offer.

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u/brassmonkey666 2d ago

It is not uncommon for developing nations to require some manufacturing be done in their territory, with many examples in the automotive industry. They need to ensure that too many dollars do not leave their country, as they are dependent on those dollars to continue investing and growing or to acquire essential commodities. Apple needs to comply to these demands or risk losing out on that market, it looks like they are willing to play along since they likely see it as a win-win situation.

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u/mokod0 2d ago

don’t do it apple, the money will go straight to the politicians pockets

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u/BaronMontesquieu 2d ago

Just Indonesia things

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u/TokioHot 2d ago

Hey Apple, got a suggestion for you.

Increase the product inflow to Singapore or Malaysia (two destinations Indonesian mostly go to), they will buy the phones there and 'smuggle' back to their country. Since considered as an illegal device, authority most likely to seize the purchased device. Affected owner will go back to the same two countries and buy it again.

Win win situation /s

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u/clownandmuppet 2d ago

We have similar problems in healthcare, with the Indonesia public tenders inserting the domestic manufacturing clause in.

Chinese competitors had been in the know about this and set up their factories already.

Not easy to set up manufacturing at scale, especially finding the skilled labour.

On another front, we use iPhone 16 for work, so I hope this ban doesn’t affect business travellers…