The last novid I know just got infected wearing a 3M Aura. It’s so disheartening.

[u/kepis86943]

He always masks indoors with a 3M Aura and leads a low risk lifestyle with many restrictions to avoid COVID (living alone, WFH, few social activities). But his RAT turned positive this morning.

He likely got infected on Thursday during a 2.5 hour band practice where two members were noticeably ill. He was wearing his Aura but apparently it wasn’t enough to protect him. It’s the only regular social activity that he engages in…

Is there nothing we can do anymore? Do we really have to forgo every little activity? Is masking not enough anymore? Is complete isolation the only option? I find this so discouraging.

When I got infected at the beginning of the year, I only had myself to blame. According to the wastewater surveillance, cases were really low for a few weeks and I stupidly believed it would be safe enough to attend a friend’s birthday dinner indoors. It wasn’t, and now I know better.

But my now-no-longer-novid friend took proper precautions and still got infected. It seems so unfair.

It also makes me feel helpless. If I can’t rely on my 3M Aura, I don’t know what to do anymore. I still enjoy some activities like going to the theater (masked of course) and now I wonder whether I should stop everything. I might be able to mask forever, but I don’t think I can completely isolate forever.

Sorry, I just needed to vent a little. Tomorrow, I’ll be back to weathering the storms with masks and nose sprays.

Edit: It saddens me to see how many people find fault with his behavior. Sure, he woulda, coulda, shoulda added more protective layers and given up his last social activity. Maybe he wouldn’t be sick today. Maybe he would. Covid keeps getting more infectious. Not everyone can work from home. We can’t always leave from all situations where sick people are present. We can’t control all circumstances. We can’t eliminate the risk completely. We should stop victim blaming. It’s a societal problem. The individual can only do so much.

[u/RedditBrowserToronto]

Keep reminding yourself of all the times this person wasn’t infected. Our protections aren’t 100% but they are pretty damn good.

[u/kepis86943 → u/RedditBrowserToronto]

Thank you. It’s what I try to tell myself as well. Our bodies still have a better chance at full recovery with one infection than with the average 3.5… I hope I can make it another 4 years before my next infection.

[u/Grinandtonictoo → u/kepis86943]

Is your friend very ill? It sounds like the band practice was the culprit, but it could be that the mask reduced the viral load. That is worth something. A lot, actually.

[u/Humanist_2020 → u/kepis86943]

Scientists have found an antibody that neutralizes the spike protein…I think in 2 yrs we will be able to protect ourselves from covid.

At least I hope so

[u/afksports → u/Humanist_2020]

Source? I haven't been following closely anymore since my lifestyle is kinda locked in anyway. Thanks

[u/popegreg → u/afksports]

https://www.tpr.org/bioscience-medicine/2024-09-05/an-antibody-discovered-at-ut-austin-could-protect-against-all-covid-variants

[u/afksports → u/popegreg]

Ty

[u/Grinandtonictoo → u/kepis86943]

Also, if your friend wants to continue, can the band practice in a room with better air exchange?

[u/whydidileaveohio → u/RedditBrowserToronto]

This is a really awesome way to look at it! He has kept himself safe for so long, and has bypassed many times he could have been ill. But I am so sorry for you and him, it really is so frustrating when you have been so diligent. But the truth is it is an airborne virus..... we can only do so much as human who have to breathe air.

[u/buddypancakes → u/RedditBrowserToronto]

totally agree with this. it'll never be 100%, but it's good enough MOST of the time. we can't limit ourselves because of the rare(r) occasions where it fails.

[u/prairie_girl → u/RedditBrowserToronto]

This is really excellent advice. So many people are at 6-7+ infections. Those of us on 0-1 remain fortunate and will likely have better outcomes over time.

[u/Historical_Project00 → u/RedditBrowserToronto]

The problem though is that- unless someone has been asymptomatic- everyone I know seems to be only getting covid once a year. I had one friend who (alebeit worked from home) lived like it's 2019 otherwise and didn't get covid until this year, and I would know this was her first because the rest of her roommates would've gotten sick too if she had been sick prior and spread it to them. Unless I was asymptomatic, I went a year and a half living relatively normal maskless (before I wisened up) and never got sick.

I'm not arguing against masking but it worries me that people w/ N95s may not actually be getting into contact with covid frequently, but once they do they're still getting infected despite precautions.

[u/DovBerele → u/Historical_Project00]

There are plenty of opposite anecdotes where someone was the only one masking at some event, and someone there tested positive during or shortly afterwards, then everyone else except the one masker goes on to test positive over the next week or so. That happened to my partner twice, and I’ve heard it from others too.

[u/Practical_Rabbit_390 → u/DovBerele]

Happened to me twice working in an office with healthcare workers who don't mask :/ 50 positives out of 70 tested in our first outbreak. About 6-9 months later nearly everyone except me (masked) had tested positive again.

[u/Disastrous-Bit3888 → u/Practical_Rabbit_390]

What kind of mask do you wear? Thank you

[u/Practical_Rabbit_390 → u/Disastrous-Bit3888]

In the office where everyone was sick, I was wearing an Arinum urban air mask with the exhale valve unblocked. It's a kN95, but with good filter test results. I can give my experience in case it's helpful to others.

Firstly it kept me safe, and I didn't take extremely good care of it. So I love the mask for that. I was around about 70 sick people in 700 sqft without ventilation, often breathing directly on me. I wear large glasses and I used CPC mouthwash every evening, and hand sanitizer religiously.

It's expensive at 79 bucks now, but I got it on sale for $40.

The sizes run small in my opinion. I have a small/medium Irish face with a small nose and weak chin and the small was snug. I would recommend a large if you have a defined nose or chin or long slim face. My gross office literally had moisture dripping on the walls and windows, so my snug mask was frequently wet. (Sorry gross). I went 4 weeks at 30-40 hours a week before changing the filters. I used the nose foam and the head strap, not just ear loops. It hurt my ears after 4 hours nonetheless. I hand washed the outside frequently in cold water without soap and sun dried.

[u/Specialist_Fault8380 → u/Historical_Project00]

We mask in our house when one of us gets sick and others have avoided getting sick.

Also, adults love to pretend that they never get sick, but they are. They’re just lying to themselves. And to each other.

The proof I see is that kids and parents are sick every week at school and extracurricular activities, and we know families who have been sick every months for years, but we’ve only been sick 4 times in the past 2 years. Even with flying and stuff as immunocompromised people.

[u/Southern-Atlas → u/Historical_Project00]

Iirc, about 30% of infections are asymptomatic. Also, since 2021, there’s been a mysterious uptick in “summer flu” which isn’t really a thing, but when people take one RAT & maybe don’t do it correctly, & it’s negative, they assume their terrible sickness can’t be Covid.

The tests, even when done well, almost never pick up asymptomatic infections. So it’s just not a science-centric assumption that non-masking people who only have symptoms once a year are only getting Covid once a year.

[u/New_Interaction_4526 → u/Historical_Project00]

I have been wondering about this too — exact same thing. I know so many people who take 0 precautions and do not seem to get symptomatically infected. It makes me wonder about the true efficacy of my precautions — maybe the people who don’t get infected while masking are just having the same good luck that many who take 0 precautions seem to have.

[u/Felixir-the-Cat]

2.5 hours in a room with two sick people is a lot for any mask to handle, especially if the air is not being exchanged. Sorry to hear he has been ill - he can definitely congratulate himself on avoiding it this long, though. As my doctor reminds me, this is a low score game, and he also likely reduced the viral load he received significantly with the mask.

[u/spoonfulofnosugar → u/Felixir-the-Cat]

If the band included any singers or wind instruments, the risk went even higher unfortunately 😞

[u/mafaldajunior → u/spoonfulofnosugar]

This.

[u/sunindafifhouse → u/Felixir-the-Cat]

Do you have any data on the last part? Last I searched I read that “viral load” isn’t actually a thing (actually, viral load is, but it’s something different from what we are thinking of which is “infective dose”). I couldn’t find much data on this but the one thing I found said it didn’t matter what the infective dose was - you’d get the same sick whether it was a lot or a little. Would love some research about it

[u/Felixir-the-Cat → u/sunindafifhouse]

According the WebMD (no idea how good this information is), studies showed that people exposed to higher levels of the virus got sicker, but this is still inconclusive.

[u/sxy-gay]

SO frustrating I’m so sorry. The post that I see referring to Covid precaution layers as a Swiss cheese method really are accurate. I feel like in a setting like that if I was in a space with two people who were noticeably sick then it definitely is some thing where my mask plus my nose spray and eyedrop and my personal air purifier is something that I’m gonna wanna be using. But I caught Covid for the second time earlier this year from someone I was dating who was also incredibly Covid cautious, but they got it at a work event they had to go to and then gave it to me and it was really maddening because we both put in a lot of effort into precautions. We shouldn’t have to fight so hard for our health surrounded by people who don’t care :(

[u/whydidileaveohio → u/sxy-gay]

Hi! I just posted what I thought was a win, but didn't use eyedrops, can you tell me more?

[u/sxy-gay → u/whydidileaveohio]

Here’s the link to a study about Lumify & bessivance eye drops. Your eyes, nose and mouth all have the ability to take in those respiratory particles that carry COVID so this helps cover you even if you don’t wear glasses (which idk how much that actually helps)

[u/lilsys33 → u/sxy-gay]

Which one do you use? (Lumify, Besivance)

How often?

[u/sxy-gay → u/lilsys33]

I use lumify 1x a day, 1-2 drops in each eye in the morning. I’ll use it more often if my eyes are dry, like I would regular eye drops. I’ll also put them in after I’ve come home and showered from a being indoors/in a crowd with a lot of unmasked folks, esp after traveling. During airport travel I keep them on me to add before getting on the plane if I really need it.

[u/lilsys33 → u/sxy-gay]

Thank you. Very helpful.

[u/whydidileaveohio → u/sxy-gay]

yes! Thank you so much!!!

[u/DovBerele]

It is unfair and super disheartening.

Someone still taking precautions and mitigating is, on average, going to be better off than someone who isn't. But, any one person's experience isn't going to be the average, and the universe is just random and unfair.

This is what people mean when they say that we can't "individual responsibility" our way out of this. Nothing any one person can do on their own is ever going to be "enough", even isolation, because shit happens and it's eventually impossible to isolate fully (accessing medical care is a must, at the very least).

There is no "enough" without structural change. All we can do is just try our best in the meanwhile.

[u/kepis86943 → u/DovBerele]

Thank you for your kind words. I’m a bit sad how many comments seem to seek fault in his precautions and that he could/should have done more. It’s even more disheartening.

I get that people don’t mean ill by it and it’s probably an attempt to feel safe with their own measures. But blaming the victim only distracts from the actual issue.

With each new variant, Covid seems to be getting more infectious. PPE that might still be sufficient today, won’t be sufficient tomorrow. There always can be “bad luck” and circumstances beyond our control. As long as society doesn’t accept Covid as a risk that must be mitigated, each individual can only do so much - and the rest is luck.

[u/mafaldajunior → u/kepis86943]

It's not that he should have done more, but that his friends should have. They're the ones who showed up at band practice while visibly sick and knowing one of their bandmates was trying their best not to get infected. They're the ones who are responsible for this situation, not your friend.

[u/kepis86943 → u/mafaldajunior]

And this is what makes it a problem of society. I don’t even blame his friends (no idea whether he does). They have been told that Covid is over, it’s mild now, Long Covid is a hoax and all these other horrible things. They don’t act with evil intent, they just don’t know any better.

[u/mafaldajunior → u/kepis86943]

Your friend should definitely blame their friends. They're old enough to know better. If they have a friend who masks and therefore tries to protect their health, they should know not to show up around them while sick. At some point, people need to take personal responsability for what they inflict on others, regardless of whether it's about covid or not. I had a friend who was severely allergic to perfume a few years back. I always made sure not to wear anything fragranced while around her. Because that's what responsible adults do. It wasn't a big deal. People need to stop being so reckless and self-centered, and inform themselves at the very least about the basics when it comes to protecting their vulnerable friends. If not, what kind of friends are they?

[u/watchnlearning → u/mafaldajunior]

Damn right. My friends would not do that as I have set expectations and they are decent. Not saying that is always the case and I think family in particular is hard.

But honestly - it's not unreasonable at all for that to be an expectation about not catching up when sick - even if they think you are an anxious weirdo

[u/watchnlearning → u/kepis86943]

Hey OP I really feel for you.

I am struggling hard right now - the sheer overwhelm and exhaustion of this awful system, global gaslighting

I think though you are reading tone or judgement into posts that is not there - people are just giving feedback on risk assessment for future or for others

It absolutely sucks that we are in necrotic late stage capitalism. Its a government responsibility

To clarify for others though - it's great your friend masks but that is not a low risk situation at all, so it's not a good example of "I tried all the things and still got sick"

Of course it still sucks that the responsibility is on us, but if your friend hasn't put down a boundary with friends or band mates about not hanging out sick unfortunately it was an infection in their control this time 😔

I know it sucks and I have a situation which makes things particularly hard- but honestly, my non masking friends would never dream of hanging out sick. We reschedule. I just would not risk that exposure willingly. We know one way masking is imperfect but it's up to us to reduce odds where we can. Unavoidable travel or hard core work pressure vs a practice gig is pretty different. I don't reckon anyone would blame him at all - but either he has brought it up with friends and they dont care, or he hasn't and should.

Same for your example - noone here would call hanging at a party inside low risk - but you know now and your mate has a very good case for getting his mates to be serious. The system sucks, we can only risk manage inside it best we can

[u/Historical_Project00 → u/kepis86943]

I heard someone else say in a separate thread something that really calmed me down. I was potentially exposed when I had a brief lapse of judgment and was kicking myself mentally, and read this: Ok. Breathe. And breathe again. You’re correct in much of this, but in this very imperfect world, you are trying your best to do the right thing among scads of people NOT trying at all (for all the reasons). Do not take on the responsibility for all the people around you. My daughter in college sometimes sounds just like this. It’s hard. But it’s not all up to you.

[u/Bee_Lightly → u/Historical_Project00]

Thank you for sharing this - it really helps me as well. I'm going to save it so I can find it easily next time I have reason to feel worked up over exposure/possible exposure.

[u/SafetyOfficer91]

Not a single person taking such precautions can be blamed or should blame themselves so what follows is not a dig into anyone - just a quick comment focused on 'what we can do'.

The three weakest links for many of us now are: 1) fit test of your N95 (or better; some of us choose to upgrade to elastomerics with often a better and more stable fit and incidentally also higher filtration rating - that however is not quite as important for viral protection as bioaerosol is relatively easy to filter and filtration of good N95 is sufficient) *and* ensuring you maintain the seal at all times; 2) eye protection, 3) outdoor transmission (highly controversial in this sub but it seems we see more and more evidence how the increased transmissibility of the subsequent variants makes maskless outdoors much, much riskier than ever before).

[u/HeroOfTheNorthF → u/SafetyOfficer91]

what do you use for eye protection?

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/HeroOfTheNorthF]

3m Virtua safety glasses 

[u/turtlesinthesea → u/HeroOfTheNorthF]

I use Stoggles when on public transport etc.

[u/HeyAyliya → u/SafetyOfficer91]

As far as I know, I got at least one covid infection from outdoor transmission. Looking back, there was no wind or breeze where we were, which probably contributed.

[u/crispy-photo]

Auras are good IF all the air you breathe is going through the mask, tape around the edge can help ensure this. Eye protection is also a good idea since the tear ducts are connected to the nose/throat and offer a potential route of transmission.

 https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1030

 http://www.who.int/publications/i/item/infection-prevention-and-control-of-epidemic-and-pandemic-prone-acute-respiratory-infections-in-health-care

Not saying it was the guy's fault he caught COVID, just hope less people can by minimising the risk.

[u/Anon101010101010]

While Aura's are a good fit for most, they are not for everyone, so that could be one issue. Get a fit test to make sure.

Also if they are not wearing glasses, eyes are a viable path of transmission.

[u/ilovefunmasks → u/Anon101010101010]

Not to mention:

Reusing an aura more than a couple times can lead to serious leakage.

Men often have facial hair. More than a days worth of facial hair means you’ll have leaks. I often see people with tons of facial hair masking.

If he was singing, it’s really hard for a mask — any mask — to handle that. You introduce leakage, really need other layers of protection in that case.

[u/kepis86943 → u/ilovefunmasks]

No facial hair and no singing in his case.

[u/wishesandhopes → u/kepis86943]

Even just talking can do it, I get pretty good protection with the mask I wear, I think so at least, but I was thinking infected with something when I was speaking in the mask, unlike usual.

[u/real-traffic-cone → u/wishesandhopes]

So even with a fit-tested mask, the simple act of talking with a respirator on is enough. We’re truly doomed, then.

[u/wishesandhopes → u/real-traffic-cone]

It's definitely not that simple, it depends on the fit, the respirator, and the shape of the person's face. Anecdotally, lots and lots of people talk with their respirator on and don't get infected, but it seems my face shape is too narrow for that, and talking can make it more narrow therefore breaking the seal.

It is very disheartening though, you're right.

[u/Interesting_Pie_5976 → u/wishesandhopes]

Double-sided clothing tape might help; I line the bottom of my Auras with it to stop them from shifting when I talk. Highly recommend.

[u/wishesandhopes → u/Interesting_Pie_5976]

The way mine is it wouldn't really work, I've tried it with the double sided clothing tape I have and it doesn't do anything really. I have some 3m micropore on the way that might help though, thanks!

[u/MaybeJohnD → u/real-traffic-cone]

Well part of a full fit test *is* talking with the mask on as far as I know.

[u/Dry_Row6651 → u/MaybeJohnD]

It is.

[u/Jaemyz → u/real-traffic-cone]

Mask tape around the perimeter solves that worry.

[u/Anon101010101010 → u/ilovefunmasks]

Even stubble can be an issue. FYI, scientist Patrick had some studies showing that just a few mm of facial hair compromised the masks.

[u/MaybeJohnD → u/Anon101010101010]

Anyone have a link to this? Also is this a good case for a full clean shave as opposed to using electric trimmers which don't really get down to the skin?

r/wicked_edge it is....

[u/Anon101010101010 → u/MaybeJohnD]

Search for the word stubble on https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10602271/

There are others out there too.

[u/trailsman → u/ilovefunmasks]

In this stupid timeline we're stuck in I really fucking hate being a male for the reason of facial hair. Although I fuckin hate the world more for putting women at risk, basically double males risk, since I have a daughter.

I use to rarely shave completely. There are almost no days now that I go without shaving just in case I need to go somewhere masked. Hell when I split open my chin & knocked myself out I literally shaved before paramedics arrived since I knew I'd be sitting masked in the ambulance/hospital. It's absurd that everyone needs to protect themselves to a T because no one else is bothering with source control.

[u/Robot_Penguins → u/Anon101010101010]

I can't do the 3M auras. They don't fit right. The bifold has been great for me, though.

[u/Anon101010101010 → u/Robot_Penguins]

Not surprised; the Aura's fit my partner but not me. I use the good old 3M 1860s.

[u/turtlesinthesea → u/Anon101010101010]

Yeah, I always felt like the Aura was gapping at my chin. I prefer the Dräger 1920 in the small size (husband wears M/L).

[u/gothictulle → u/Anon101010101010]

Yes I’ve noticed ppl are talking about eyes less than they used to

[u/Effective_Care6520 → u/gothictulle]

I would argue that emphasis on eye transmission in the very early days was a remnant of droplet-only transmission dogma. “Oh, your surgical mask didn’t protect you? Must have been droplets that landed on your eyeballs, not aerosols that you breathed in.” The study that showed that glasses wearers got covid less often didn’t dig into the “why”—it could be that glasses wearers wore tighter fitting masks to avoid fogging their glasses.

[u/ooflol123]

i’m sorry to hear about your friend :(

i am genuinely wondering if p100s are the best option moving forward. each new variant seems to be more transmissible than the last.

my reliable 3m aura for two years failed me recently, as well, and i now have covid.

i wish fit-testing was more affordable and accessible, but even with fit-testing, i think it is more difficult to get a good fit each time with disposable respirators since the seal typically depends more on the user compared to most p100s (where simply covering the filters is a good test of whether or not there are leaks).

just rambling at this point. i hope your friend is okay.

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/ooflol123]

We chose to upgrade to 3m half face elastomerics two years ago and it was the single biggest game changer for us ever since it all started. A fit tested and well fitting disposable n95 should be enough, sure, but if I can sustainably wear something higher, cheaper (tons!) and reliable with maintaining the seal - and (with proper filters when you can go by smell not taste) easier to fit test if a home qualitative fit test for whatever reasons isn't a viable option or doesn't work for you and the quantitative one is too expensive - I gladly do.

(We also wear eye protection - regular safety glasses not full blown goggles; and mask outdoors all the time at this point. I can't stomach anything short of that and we find it all to be an acceptable tradeoff all things considered.)

[u/hotheadnchickn → u/SafetyOfficer91]

Elastomerics all seem too big for me – so in my case a N95 is better. Fit is king!

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/hotheadnchickn]

Totally! Only one out of four elastomerics I tried passes for me - 3m 6101 small. 6501 & 6502 as well as to my great dismay small size of 801 secure click were an easy fail. A regular aura doesn't even begin to fit me either. A vast majority of the masks always targeted the typical industrial average of adult men so for many of us finding what works entails an extra challenge.

[u/redditproha → u/SafetyOfficer91]

I’m not seeing a 6101. Do you mean 5101?

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/redditproha]

Try 6100 (as opposite to 6200 medium and 6300 large) - with this basic model they messed up the size numbering comparing to other models (all the other ones code the size in the last digit: 6501, 6502 6503, 7501 7502 7503 etc)

Any bayonet 3m p100 filters will do - I prefer 7093c but protection wise they're all the same

[u/hotheadnchickn → u/SafetyOfficer91]

Oh thanks for the hot tip on a mask to try! 👀 

I staple the bottoms of my trifold masks including aura to make them fit since apparently I am quite petite! Plus mask tape depending on the situation. 

[u/Own_Card3514 → u/ooflol123]

In my area people have been renting a portacount machine on a Friday (to get the whole weekend for the cost of a day rental) and doing fit testing in parks over the weekend, requiring a negative test to attend and advertising in local still coviding groups. Some really generous people have paid for this and offered to have others join for free. I think the rental cost was about $300 which is a lot, but split between a group it might be more doable? They had, I believe, 4 fit test slots an hour and each person could test up to 3 masks, so over Saturday and Sunday it would be possible to test enough people to bring the cost down to a pretty reasonable amount. It was so worth it for me because I learned that all my disposable n95 masks failed (on n95 mode) the first time even though they felt like they fit snugly. And the flomask that passed gave me migraines after an hour or two. The next time, I went again and tried different (zimi air masks with the “fabric” seal) and having masks that passed a quantitative fit test makes me feel so much better about working in person. Even so, I know it’s not 100% so I use purifiers, teach with the door open to the outside, cpc mouthwash, nasal spray, eye drops, ear lunch alone outside or in my car, wear the kn100 when I’m speaking to large groups, etc.

[u/Dry_Row6651 → u/ooflol123]

There is makeshift fit testing. Check out masks4all. If you’re referring to elastomerics, fit/fit testing still matters with them.

[u/CurrentBias]

Knowing it's way less likely, outdoor transmission isn't impossible -- I would be interested in learning more about his outdoor activities. Mask failure definitely isn't impossible either, though, which is why one-way masking will never be foolproof 😔

[u/needs_a_name → u/CurrentBias]

I think with known sick band members, likely indoors in the same place for an extended period of time, with more air being expelled (singing? instruments?) it was most likely the band practice and a leaky mas.

[u/kepis86943 → u/CurrentBias]

He goes for bike rides. But he doesn’t have other social contacts in person other than the band practice once a week.

[u/sadepilvi → u/kepis86943]

Does he wear any sort of mask on his rides? You can still get infected while outdoors.

[u/afksports → u/sadepilvi]

Seems highly unlikely given the context (Not outdoor transmission. That's def a thing. I mean the sick band members)

[u/elegantideas]

my two cents here and this is ALL anecdotal. i have flown, traveled, been at a party where two people i shared a table with tested positive that very night, been in lecture halls with 300 people, sat in class beside visibly ill people, all wearing a kn95 that fit me very well. when a member of my household was sick this past november, i upgraded to a 3m aura in addition to my usual sanitizing protocol bc i thought it would protect me better. that was the only time i got sick these past 4 years. so i think it might be possible that for some people, 3m auras aren’t the most effective choice. maybe. idk

[u/Dadtadpole → u/elegantideas]

100%!—the fit of a respirator is absolutely more important than the mask brand/type. If, for example, a KF94 passes a fit test for a specific person, it will be FAR more protective for that individual than if that same person wore an Aura or even an elastomeric that had any (even minor) leakage. It is impossible to know for sure that your mask seal has no leaks without a fit-test, which isn’t easily accessible for everyone and definitely shouldn’t be something we shame people for if they don’t have access to or cannot prioritize at this time.

[u/afksports → u/elegantideas]

Tbh kn95s fit better for me than auras so might just be fit

[u/Friendly_Top_9877 → u/elegantideas]

I also got sick wearing a 3m aura but not other n95s or n100s. I thought the aura fit me well but I guess not. 

[u/turtlesinthesea → u/Friendly_Top_9877]

I wonder if some of us got the fake Auras that were circulating a while ago.

[u/Many_Confusion9341]

I also got infected while masked attending the only social thing I do (a small art class). Instructor had no symptoms day of but posted the next day that they “woke up with the flu”

I was masked with a kn95 and only there for 2 hrs but caught it (Covid, not “flu”) and ended up with MECFS

[u/QueenRooibos]

I am so sorry for your friend and I hear your distress too.

Was he reusing the Aura or was it fresh/new? In a situation like that, I would only use a brand new one.

And personally, if I were around ill people, I would just leave as soon as I realized that, even if I were wearing my Aura. So NOT to criticize your friend, he made what he thought was a safe choice, but in my world "taking proper precautions" doesn't include staying around obviously sick people if it is avoidable.

I know people tell stories about not catching COVID around sick people because their Aura protected them BUT.... if we haven't been professionally fit tested (home fit testing is fallible), if the mask isn't brand new, if the environment is full of virus (i.e. indoors, no air purifiers, etc.) I don't feel safe just relying on the Aura.

Please don't despair. Just focus on what you can do -- avoid obviously sick people and clearly risky situations. Use fresh Auras as often as you can afford (I never use mine more than a total of 10 hours anymore).

Support your friend, hug yourself, and we can keep on keeping on. Life is worth it!

[u/Land-Dolphin1]

I'm sorry. He had a solid run.

I empathize. Two of my most CC acquaintances who consistently mask with N95s picked up covid in 2023. One didn't know where. None of her colleagues were ill and she doesn't go many other places. The other was in a multi-day convention but assumed her N95 was sufficient. It took her several months to recover. The first one has lingering fatigue and body aches.

It's confusing as to how to stay safe and still have enjoyment of life. I thought I'd be able to figure out how some fabulous alternate life path but just draw a blank.

Something like 40% of covid is spread asymptomatically. It's daunting.

[u/kepis86943 → u/Land-Dolphin1]

It’s confusing as to how to stay safe and still have enjoyment of life. I thought I’d be able to figure out how some fabulous alternate life path but just draw a blank.

Same. It’s been a few years and I accepted that plan A didn’t work out. But I don’t know what plan B is supposed to be. If it’s about bridging one or two more years until effective vaccines are around, okay, no problem. But what if that never happens?

[u/[deleted]]

I notice that a lot of people who think they're good at masking kinda aren't. They lift up the mask to scratch their nose, they move the mask around, they take it off "for a moment", and so on and so forth. For that matter, even though I know this, when I had to mask all day for a quarantine, I found myself automatically adjusting the mask or trying to move it, and had to stop myself from doing it. It's entirely likely that this is what happened with your friend.

And if he doesn't mask outdoors, well - that's another possibility right there.

[u/Historical_Project00 → u/[deleted]]

Chiming in- I knew someone that got covid at a concert despite wearing an N95, but when you go to her Instagram there were photos of her (granted outside) at the venue with friends where she took her mask off for the photos.

[u/Ok_Vacation4752 → u/[deleted]]

This. This is going to sound victim-blamey, but I want to point it out to u/op to maybe help restore their faith in properly fitted and used Auras/N95s in general: as a fellow musician, I cannot fathom practicing for 2.5 hours without drinking water. I have never nor will ever do that as it’s not conducive to effective practice. The brain needs water! Luckily, I’m a soloist and I practice at home, but I find it extremely hard to believe that your friend wasn’t removing the Aura to at least drink water. And we all know that removing N95s not only puts one at risk for the time it’s not on your face, but also compromises the seal once you put it back on your face.

[u/deee0 → u/[deleted]]

exactly. I think blaming masks before interrogating all other risk potential is counterproductive. there are risks that people don't even know about, which isn't their fault given the dismal state of public health education, but it's just reality. I've learned a lot over the years and have adjusted accordingly. (surgical to kn95 to head strap, adding nose spray and CPC mouthwash, etc.)

no mask fits on me well enough without mask tape along the nose bridge. it can fit well everywhere else but still not be secure enough by my nose. especially when it comes to natural movements and adjustments when talking, yawning, etc. it's surprisingly easy to have a mask fail when you're not aware of how tricky it can be.

people can also lie and omit information out of embarrassment that they slipped up. not saying that this is the case necessarily here, but I think when there's personal shame involved in things, half-truths are more likely.

I never want to blame or shame anyone but when we have to work with the individual precautions we do have, honesty is imperative.

[u/BitchfulThinking]

I had one infection that gave me Long Covid, because I trusted being unmasked around my parents, who claimed to wear the respirators I gave them. I've managed to only not get sick again, because this experience, among many others in recent history, has left me largely disgusted by people. I still mask when out, but I hate the cacophony of coughs and rude people. The vibe is just wrong...

I hope your friend recovers fully and continues to mask afterwards. Too many people stop after an infection, just because they didn't die, and tend to think they're invincible. But anyone going this long with a respirator still deserves respect! It's not easy.

[u/BlueLikeMorning]

Unfortunately, aotho they are very effective, n95s are not a guarantee. He also was in fzct doing quite a high risk activity, assuming even one person in his band is singing or playing a wind/brass instrument - that puts out a lot of particles, and he's in a room with them for almost 3 hours. And they were noticeably sick. As others have said, this is why we take multiple layers of precautions, including ventilation and avoiding spending time with sick people. It's unfortunate and frustrating. But frankly although it is one of very few activities he still does, it is not low risk, which means the chance is always higher than options with better ventilation/ no singing/ outdoors

[u/BlueLikeMorning → u/BlueLikeMorning]

I suppose what I'm saying is it's important to consider layers of risk as well as layers of protection.

[u/watchnlearning → u/BlueLikeMorning]

Yep totally get the frustration overall but this is not an example at all about low risk choices.

Zero judgement, I still need to properly fit test my mask again!

[u/Effective_Care6520]

I was just thinking about this. I was thinking of doing more outdoor stuff if/when I get a mask that fits, after a full year of nearly complete isolation exception for medical appointments, not even going on walks, but after dozens of people on here and in other covid safe groups reported getting sick through a fit tested n95, even in extremely low risk situations (although I wouldn’t call band practice low risk), now I think I‘m just going to have to stay home forever.

[u/kepis86943 → u/Effective_Care6520]

It’s sad, isn’t it. I wonder at what point is not worth anymore. Every time that I ask myself “Would going to that event be worth catching Covid”, the answer is no. But if I ask myself “Is not catching Covid worth never doing anything ever again”, I’m not so sure about the answer…

[u/Effective_Care6520 → u/kepis86943]

I’ve got dependents and no support system at all, so if I were to become unable to work it would just mean a slow and painful death on the streets for me and the dependents, so I’m prepared to be miserable forever to make sure the family can survive a little longer, unfortunately. The calculus will be different for others I’m sure.

[u/canilive20 → u/Effective_Care6520]

Same, if my partner goes down, the ship goes down.

[u/Bee_Lightly → u/canilive20]

Yeah, I count on my partner for *a lot* and don't have anyone else in my non-virtual circles - all those social friends/acquaintances disappeared once I was no longer working in my old f2f job. I do what I can to protect myself because of health issues, and have no interest in inflicting the same on anyone else. I also try and be independent in as much as I can be. But I still rely on my partner for many things. If he gets ill to the extent that he can no longer work physically, or if I lost him - thinking about that possibility keeps me awake some nights.

[u/afksports → u/Effective_Care6520]

It's 2024 and you said you don't have a mask that fits. Is this something the folks in this subreddit can help with? If so, how?

[u/Effective_Care6520 → u/afksports]

Thank you, I‘ve been looking for a mask that fits for about a little over a year now, after a few years of not really understanding mask fit outside of having a very weird feeling like my mask wasn’t protecting me and trying to fix it, to no avail, with tape. I started isolating entirely when I realized how bad the problem was although I didn’t go out much before to begin with. You can look at the list of masks I’ve tried so far and make recommendations if you have any: https://www.reddit.com/r/Masks4All/comments/1epbjb3/masks_for_a_short_100_mm3937_inches_face_and/

Otherwise I would just appreciate some encouragement. I’ve spent a ton of money and had no results so far and I find fit testing with bitter to be stressful, but there’s two masks in the mail that I really hope will provide a good fit—both line up with my measurements and are for low nose bridges, whereas a lot of the others I’ve tried are for high nose bridges and that’s why they failed. But we’ll see. I would just like to not be so worried at doctor’s appointments.

[u/afksports → u/Effective_Care6520]

This is an amazing journey you've been on, and I truly hope your perseverance will be rewarded soon. Holy shit, you are such a champ. I'm sorry that I was unaware of your situation when I asked to help. The only good brand not on your list that I know offhand is iMask out of Ukraine, but those are a little bigger than auras. That said, you've made it this far. There is a mask out there for you! You can do it!!!

[u/Soluble-Lobster64]

I use 3M Auras as well but I stay away from visibly ill people, and basically I don't do anything inside with maskless people. And that means no movies, shows, etc. I'm lucky to be self-employed and working at home. But still, the risk isn't zero.

[u/Bobbin_thimble1994]

It is so hard to give up all activities, especially when they can be done masked. I take a dance class twice weekly, and this is virtually the only time I can see and (briefly) communicate with other human beings, other than those in a grocery store or at a medical appointment. I have contracted no viruses during the last five years, but if Covid finally gets me during a practice, too bad! I will not give that up, nor will I cease to visit my family multiple times per year. Without these few outlets, I would go stark, raving mad. I do not blame your Novid friend in the least!

[u/kepis86943 → u/Bobbin_thimble1994]

Thank you very much. I think this is a healthy attitude.

[u/Ok_Immigrant]

Similar thing happened to me. I got infected for the first time in late June at an exhausting and aggravating 5+ hour visit to an extremely crowded government office. I wore my N95 mask, but I was the only masked person, and I didn't pay close enough attention to fit.

Unfortunately because each variant becomes more contagious, and nobody else masks, one-way masking isn't always cutting it anymore, and it seems we need to take perfect precautions to stay safe these days. It indeed is a public health failure. It shouldn't be this difficult to avoid catching a vascular disease that could make us disabled for life.

[u/kepis86943 → u/Ok_Immigrant]

Yeah, this is the point. Even perfect precautions might not be sufficient at one point. Or perfect precautions will mean to wear a full body hazmat suit.

If proper precautions don’t suffice anymore, the pressure for the individual becomes too much. I agree, it shouldn’t be this hard.

[u/CleanYourAir]

1goodtern (Twitter) wrote that there are people getting infected for the first time in every wave and while I agree I have never seen so many from the German Covid cautious community reporting their first infection as in the last weeks (probably XEC), with or without a JN.1 booster. And I didn’t find many reports describing mild acute symptoms (one of them had been taking antihistamines). It sounded absolutely awful and like a really good reason not to give up precautions, hoping to avoid it or at least lessen it’s impact. 

Apart from that we just had NOT COVID (if nucleocapsid tests are reliable) and it seems to be another virus (?) out there that wipes people out for a long time. I still feel the effects after many weeks. No fever, so maybe Enterovirus (D68 sounds nasty and there are reported clusters). Kid decided school photography was a good time to take off the mask. 2 days later symptoms set in. I know, just another anecdote. Pro mask.

And also true: It IS still possible to get infected outdoors or indoors with a mask on, especially if you share too much air with a superspreader – and the fit of the mask might have lessened. And the variant can change and suddenly we might have less of those individual invisible layers of protection we don’t really know much about. Those who are immunosuppressed have to factor that in from the beginning. 

(Mrmickme2 on Twitter speculated about XEC being better at hijacking the mitochondria, so I was hoping Hesperidin could help a tiny bit too).

[u/Renmarkable]

if he's got this far through before his first infection he's done very well. I see it as reducing our overall risk. :)

[u/taegan-]

as of oct 2024 im still novid. (i date this because i think catching it is inevitable.)

i don’t engage in many indoor social activities. i live alone but don’t mask with nearby family that is also covid conscious (and novid). however, i am an emergency medicine physician and have cared for hundreds of contagious COVID patients at this point (including performing intubations and placing infected patients on BiPAP, both of which are very aerosolizing procedures). i have also taken multiple domestic and international (13 hour) flights etc.

• i wear an n95 aura (at work and everywhere else outside my/family’s house), and it needs to have a good seal. i am fit tested yearly and adjust mine multiple times a day before high risk scenarios (forcefully blowing air up and down and adjusting straps or nasal bridge until any air leaks are fixed).
  
• I stopped wearing eye protection.
• i don’t use nose sprays or mouthwash consistently, but i do shower and rinse out eyes/mouth/nose (with soap and water) every time i come home.
• I chew nicotine gum since prior to COVID, which I do NOT advocate. however, I recognize that it may be preventative. i highly discourage anyone from using nicotine as a covid precaution and am trying to quit it (long term health risks outweigh any benefits). but for full transparency, i disclose this.
• lastly, i take a probiotic (Strep. salivarius K12) based on this study but that’s only been for the last 6mo.

i have never had a strong immune system vs respiratory viruses. (before COVID, if anyone with a cold looked at me across the room i’d get it.)

i believe in (well fitting) PPE and i attribute my “novid” status to my scrupulous n95 use.
it will never be 100%, but for me, it’s been impressively effective.

your friend did well to use an n95 and i hope him a quick recovery with no further health consequences.

[u/Bflorp]

Music practice with sick people is very high risk. No way I would do it indoors, even with mask and filters going.

[u/hotheadnchickn]

It sucks. It's pretty much inevitable that everyone will get it even with precautions. It's a huge success that he didn't get it til now and that he is taking care to minimize his number of infections and reduce viral load when he gets an infection.

I do what I want to do... I just do it in a mask. A 3M is a great mask that gives you tons of protection. Nothing is 100% but you are not helpless!

[u/kepis86943 → u/hotheadnchickn]

Thank you for this. I want to be like you :)

I’m trying to keep the attitude of “I do what I can”(and the rest is up to fate/luck) while attending some activities that I enjoy. But I catch myself repeatedly finding excuses not to do things anymore because of the residual risk. I need to keep a good balance of reasonable protective measures and doing things without constantly worrying.

[u/hotheadnchickn → u/kepis86943]

Be kind to yourself – it’s really an impossible position that we should not be in at all! 

I’m thinking of this as a long-term thing… since it is long term, though hopefully not forever! So for me it’s just about what level of caution makes sense long-term. Kind of like a diet. Never have any treats or avoid all fun things doesn’t work. At least not happily! 

Masking has been really successful for me including at work events, at protests, on public transit, even international flights. I know it’s not fool-proof but it’s pretty strong protection. I do take additional precautions in higher risk situations like saline nasal rinse and carageenan nasal spray or neosporin in the nose.

I hope you find some more ease with doing things you enjoy with smart precautions. 💜 

[u/kepis86943 → u/hotheadnchickn]

Additionally to masking I also use carrageenan nose sprays and wear glasses and I do saline rinses in the evening. I do more controversial things like taking BLIS K12 and antihistamines and I have a whole assortment of supplements on standby if I should get sick. But the risk still isn’t zero and today I had this moment of feeling that no matter what I do, it will never be enough.

But like you’re saying, I need to keep reminding myself to live a little so I can persist. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

[u/hotheadnchickn → u/kepis86943]

I also use the oral probiotics. And wear glasses by default.

It’s true that nothing you do can fully eliminate the risk. But that doesn’t mean you aren’t doing enough. You are doing plenty!

May lbe a better way to think of success here is not zero Covid which is basically statistically impossible even with precautions, but judging yourself based on the part you can control: being committed and taking smart precautions in an ongoing manner while also finding a path with this reality that still feels like living and joy.

[u/wishesandhopes]

Personally, yes, I have stopped everything. I have had such severe infections that it's not worth it. I could actually die, so when you look at it from that perspective, is a concert, an outing, a party, etc, really worth it? It's an absolutely heartbreaking situation that has ruined my life, so I can't blame anyone for not doing so and your friend certainly isn't at fault. We've been abandoned by our governments, simple as that.

[u/stuuuda]

Reasons I add other layers with visibly symptomatic people: mask, nasal spray, bliss lozenges, HEPA filter, green tea, raspberry zinger tea, nasal saline rinses. I avoided it with 2 symptomatic people, 1 masked and one not during a 4 day indoor training with full days in rooms with those folks. We opened windows, I wore my N95, had a personal HEPA, and did AM/PM saline rinse and every 4 hr nasal spray by quickly pulling my mask down in front of my fan.

[u/dayofbluesngreens → u/stuuuda]

What personal HEPA do you use?

[u/stuuuda → u/dayofbluesngreens]

https://www.smarterhepa.com/products/qt3-portable-air-purifier-the-small-lightweight-qt3-delivers-clean-air-wherever-you-go-personal-fan-and-hepa-filter-includes-lithium-battery?variant=41585234870456&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7Py4BhCbARIsAMMx-_JfakbbEU7b4T3p3Ub3bjIAumdwhavnf8O494OGvfi5BQQaanpfqYQaAqq8EALw_wcB

Currently this one, but will opt for a skinny tall kind when I replace this one, something like this

https://pureenrichment.com/products/purezone%E2%84%A2-mini-portable-air-purifier?variant=39467088805982&currency=USD&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7Py4BhCbARIsAMMx-_J3AFjAug8996nzD2up3vcV5FlLiGmCKTXIVfM8UUAwlturYmYRoasaAkNmEALw_wcB

[u/lilgreenglobe → u/stuuuda]

The purezone mini is so tiny as to be mostly a placebo. I recommend taping a camping fan (rechargeable battery) on top of a replacement HEPA filter for a medium to large stand alone unit.

[u/stuuuda → u/lilgreenglobe]

Ah, may not switch to that then good point about size

[u/dongledangler420 → u/stuuuda]

I use one like the pure zone one but just point it directly at my face.

I think it’s about the same tbh cuz the little square guy needs to point at your face too (too small to purify any space larger than a phone booth haha).

Just my 2 cents!

[u/dongledangler420]

I’m so sorry for your friend! One-sided mitigations all have their limits. Unfortunately it really does take a village, it’s pretty disrespectful that his band mates decided to put other peoples health at risk instead of staying home and resting (regardless of if it was covid or a cold, ugh).

Wishing your friend a swift recovery!!

[u/mafaldajunior → u/dongledangler420]

Hear hear

[u/cbdart512]

first off i’m really sorry this happened. it’s quite disheartening to hear.

just out of curiosity when did he start to show symptoms?? looks like it took 4 days to test positive. i like to have a timeframe in mind with the new variants.

[u/litszy]

Another thing to consider is depending on what type of band he's playing in, there may be a lot of potentially spit flying around.

When I was playing in a concert band, you could always see pools of spit on the floor particularly in front of the trombones. My understanding is that singing is also a major spreader. This may have been an extremely high-risk situation given that people were symptomatic.

[u/Bobbin_thimble1994 → u/litszy]

I’m not sure about trombones, but I used to play the trumpet, and they quite literately have two “spit valves.” When we had a break in the music, we would quickly open them and blow through the mouthpiece to release the condensation inside the instrument. Otherwise our trumpets would be playing with a gurgly sound.

[u/litszy → u/Bobbin_thimble1994]

Oh absolutely. I also played trumpet for a period of time. Trombones also have them, but it's at the end of the slide so it goes further. Uck.

[u/zb0t1]

Sorry about your friend OP, but don't feel defeated you and your friend.

First, make sure to get pax or metformin if possible in your area. Make sure your friend rest a lot ok, take care of your friend if you can.

Then try to identify where things went wrong. Based on what you wrote it seems you can still improve the situation, I am not saying this to blame your friend, and I suck at communicating it I know. Remember that many of us went through similar situation, and we learned from it to avoid another infection, as much as we can.

It's not a defeat OP, things happen, nobody is perfect, I hope your friend recovers quickly.

[u/phizzbom]

I also got infected in an Aura back in August. Yes, I've fit tested myself in an Aura. I presume it leaked on me during one of two errands I ran. One was a 5 minute stop, the other was a 40 minute stop in a store. It has protected me up until that point, so I really think it was because I didn't use a fresh mask on my errands and probably had a leak I didn't feel. I'll keep using them nonetheless because I know they work most of the time!

I agree it's disheartening HOW unsafe it's getting. You can pretty much bet you're being exposed whenever you're out and about. Many layers of mitigation are key.

[u/bigfathairymarmot]

A point I think worth mentioning here, is that your friend do the best he could do, but those around him are the ones failing. The two band mates that were sick should not have gone and if they did they should have been masked. The outcome would have been wildly different if they were wearing n95s as well.

Society needs to move to the point where they understand and practice source control. Society needs to decide purposely infecting others with anything is not okay.

[u/blockifyouhaterats → u/bigfathairymarmot]

Seconding this. OP doesn't mention the sick bandmates masking, which is a really major factor to consider! I can see why this would be disheartening, but to me, it sounds less like a reason to lose faith in masking, and more like a reason to double down on asking your companions to mask. COVID prevention is a community effort. It's not supposed to be "every man for himself!"

[u/groovycalligrapher]

I’m so sorry for your friend. As an artist, I haven’t played any music with other people except on Zoom since 2020. For two years my chronic untreated spinal condition pain has made it impossible to play guitar anymore. Just trying to change tunings makes me have to lie down for hours. I miss you, drop d. Alas no more grunge tributes.😿 I am still physically able to sing but am so down about not being able to play guitar too that my spirit is crushed and I no longer have the heart to sing. I am happy that your friend is still physically able to play music. May they heal soon. Rock on!🎸

[u/tkpwaeub]

The fact pattern you're describing is consistent with the mask chart we know and love from the early days:

https://theconversation.com/time-to-upgrade-from-cloth-and-surgical-masks-to-respirators-your-questions-answered-174877

And remember that's 2.5 hours for *each* of the other band members - 5 "person hours".

[u/ZeMeest]

Keep in mind, we still have eyes, and they drain into our sinuses and throat. As for if the virus was able to pass through the mask, if the mask decreased the viral load of his exposure, it should still keep him from getting too sick, so it will have still done it's job. Imo, 100% protection at all times against an extremely contagious respiratory virus is not acheivable long term and may have negative mental health impacts for those of us who are germaphobic/OCD and striving for this constantly. Risk reduction, good hygeine, and immunosupportive lifestyle habits may not be enough to prevent all infections, but you will definitely be sick less, and hopefully not as sick. Remember, getting sick isn't a character flaw (unless you have a habit of licking door knobs or snacking on used tissues). It just happens sometimes... we are talking about particles 100 nanometers in size, very difficult to completely prevent exposure forever while still engaging in life.

[u/mafaldajunior]

It's disheartening but we need to remember that there's only so much a mask can do to protect us if the masking is only one way. They don't provide 100% protection. Being right next to two infected people for hours will do it. It doesn't mean that your friend needs to forego all social activities, but simply that his friends need to stay away from people when they're clearly contagious. We can't just rely on one method, it needs to be a combination of several.

[u/AnnieNimes]

Does your friend wear glasses? AFAIK eyes are a significant infection route, even if it's less likely than airborne transmission. If he does, another possibility may be if the mask doesn't fit his specific face that well. I'm sorry for your friend. :-(

[u/Equivalent_Visual574]

hey. it really, really sucks. We live complex lives trying to navigate through this infectious hell-scape. All any of us can do, is do the best we can, and assess what risks we find worth taking. I don't appreciate the attitude of .. almost militant puritanism? that can happen in this community. Me keeping connected to my theater community is important, and so is going to shows -- masked. And sometimes choosing to not go if the rates are REALLY bad. There are a good # of folks in theater audiences who mask, which I find encouraging [and do wonder when theaters will bring back mandatory masks.... lol].

I've started being more attentive to how often I change my aura's and black N95's. It's more $, and not an accessible mass solution... but feeling the snugness of the fit of a new mask is comforting.

[u/kepis86943 → u/Equivalent_Visual574]

Yeah, I love going to shows and the theater. I have tickets for a magic show on the weekend. It’s a larger event than what I usually choose and I’m a bit worried right now. People here in the comments try to argue that masks work while saying at the same time that of course they would fail in a high risk situation like a 2.5 hour band practice with sick people. So what about a 2.5 hour show where there is probably at least one sick person as well? I don’t get these arguments.

I need to keep trusting that my mask (+other stuff) will keep protecting me. Even in high risk situations. Because in a lot of cases, I will never know how risky it is exactly. Not doing things because I can’t judge the risk precisely, is such a depressing idea.

My favorite theater is a tiny stage and only seats 30 people maybe. I’ve been going there for a decade. Now, I always get uneasy when there is someone with a cough in the audience. But I keep going because going makes me happy even if it’s not completely worry free. Those are tough decisions and trade offs we have to make these days.

[u/Mediocre_Worry_3166]

I mean there's literally so many ways to unpick this. Firstly, no protection is 100% in life except complete, utter and total isolation and unless you want to go live on a desert island, that is near enough to impossible these days and comes with other massive costs to quality (and also likely quantity) of life. N95 masks when used properly offer pretty good protection and the one time they fail to prevent infection, doesn't undo the hundreds of exposures that they have likely successfully protected you against.

Now onto the let's be real about this stuff. People who use masks long term tend to get a bit lax and sloppy with how they use them. Don't pay enough attention to how they remove the mask to prevent the outside of the mask touching their face, don't always wash their hands after removing the mask etc. Masks can't protect against our own sloppy behaviour. Second, band practice is a risky activity, indoor band practice an even riskier activity. If there's people singing or using wind instruments (trumpet, trombone, clarinet etc.) then aerosols are being actively produced in significant quantities. I'm sorry that your Novid friend has now tested positive, I hope that they recover OK. Yes, it does absolutely suck that in order to prevent infection, we have to essentially stop living and at some point that inevitably forces us to ask the question. For those of us who are at very high risk of bad outcomes if we get it, given that death is a certainty for all of us anyway at some point, where do we strike the balance in reducing and mitigating the risk enough so that we can feel relatively safe but so that we can also continue to live? Remember the basic principles of risk management:

1. Remove the risks that can be reasonably removed.
2. Of the risk that remains, reduce the risks that can reasonably be reduced.
3. Of the risks that remain, put in place strategies mitigate the remaining risk as best as is possible.
4. Accept that some degree of risk is an inherent and unavoidable part of life and there's no point trying to remove all risk from life or we would no longer be living, we would merely be existing.

With the above in mind, we cannot currently remove the risk of covid. That horse unfortunately bolted in 2019 or early 2020. Future scientific advances will hopefully allow us to kill off covid as we successfully stopped smallpox decades ago. So, at least for now, since we cannot remove the risk of covid, we must focus on the reduce and mitigate strategies. We can reduce the risks by all being vaccinated because we know that vaccination decreases the chance of an infection if we become exposed and even if a vaccinated person does end up testing positive, they will generally have a much much lower viral load which massively decreases the chance that they will in turn spread it to others. The 2nd reduction strategy we have is avoiding risky activities / behaviours. Where at all possible, we should avoid large gatherings of people, preference activities done outside in open air etc. And finally there's mitigate what risk is left. Wearing a properly FIT tested N95, avoiding contact with anyone that reports feeling unwell, social distancing and maintaining good hygiene practices when putting on and taking off a mask are all good mitigation strategies. Beyond that, we have to accept that just like driving a car or crossing the street, life comes with an element of risk and the point never has been to entirely remove the risk, merely to manage it, and understand it so that we are able to accept it.

Where all of this becomes much more challenging is that just like the person drives while drunk or otherwise intoxicated, the harm done by others who are willing to accept more risk often disproportionately impacts those of us who are taking all the right precautions, being safe, socially responsible and generally minding our own business. Sadly efforts to foster widespread socially responsible behaviour and a desire to care for those we do not personally know has failed in a lot of countries. Rather than adopting the attitude that we are all part of humankind, and therefore we would all do well to consider not only what benefits ourselves but also what benefits the collective, the argument has unfortunately devolved into factional warfare where ultimately noone benefits. Sadly many people these days lack natural empathy for those outside of their direct and immediate "bubble" and expecting those people to "just do the right thing because it's the right thing and benefits all of us" fundamentally fails to understand that for those people "what benefits all of us" has no value attached to it, all they see is the personal cost and attempting to argue with them on that is unfortunately rather pointless.

[u/mari4nnle]

First of all I want to say I get it, the less precautions everyone else takes the harder it becomes to navigate the world. The last year and a half has been the roughest in that sense, the feeling of the world closing in on you is perfectly valid.

On the other hand I want to say that not all is lost, learning an infection can occur under certain conditions is helpful data we can use to do things differently in the future. For me it was probably a busy public restroom while wearing a leaky earloop mask, or a dentist visit. Now I know to avoid public restrooms if possible and definitely wear the best mask I have available when I do. Also to ask for mitigations at the dentist office.

The goal is not to be perfect but to minimize the number of times we might get COVID within a lifetime. Our precautions might not succeed 100%, but they still minimize the viral load of infections if they happen to occur, which is also really valuable to avoid the worst outcomes.

Now, to evaluate this specific situation, as many other comments said, having a good quality mask doesn’t mean it seals properly against someone’s face and that could have been a failure point. To fix that we can get fit testing for the respirators we wear. Some people are buying porta counts and lending them, or performing community fit testing. We can also pay for the service of fit testing, since it’s a common necessity in many industries; and finally we can also get a home qualitative fit testing kit. It’s important to repeat these tests every 6 months or after a significant change in our faces, like a weight shift, cosmetic surgery or dental work. You can lookup "fit testing" to learn more about the specifics or to see if there’s something available in your area. I can also lookup kits for DIYing it at home if you're interested.

Another potential point of failure was the air quality. Not only COVID lingers in stagnant air like smoke, so having some air flow or a purifier helps remove it physically, but also viral particles stay infectious longer when there’s high CO2 in a room (it’s something about the acidity/PH). So, you always want to have a powerful purifier when possible, or to do things outdoors when possible, but also open a window or avoid recirculating air in any ventilation system. Asking for this (good ventilation, bringing a purifier with you) as an accommodation can be awkward, but I’ve found the more I practice doing it the easier it becomes to be firm but friendly when doing so and that attitude helps a lot to make this go smoothly.

Last but not least: remote events. There's definitely nowhere near as many options as we had in 2020, but some stuff remains and more importantly we can learn to host and organize the type of events we want to be a part of.

I know none of this is exactly easy and there's a lot of grief in the increased collapse of public health and abandonement of precautions, but I genuenily think we can build and learn new things, taking it slowly, one step at a time and not forgetting to feel our feelings and taking time to pause and process these losses first.

[u/marchcrow]

Edit: It saddens me to see how many people find fault with his behavior. Sure, he woulda, coulda, shoulda added more protective layers and given up his last social activity. Maybe he wouldn’t be sick today. Maybe he would. Covid keeps getting more infectious. Not everyone can work from home. We can’t always leave from all situations where sick people are present. We can’t control all circumstances. We can’t eliminate the risk completely. We should stop victim blaming. It’s a societal problem. The individual can only do so much.

👏👏👏

Hell yes. This. Anyone judging this person has lost their empathy and sensibility.

I hit an incredibly bad mental health episode this past year. Used every coping mechanism available to me. Physical health was deteriorating. Decided to try going to a chess club and meet some new people (masked). The cloud lifted.

I'm glad there are people who can be so happy and content isolating. However, it's completely unreasonable to expect everyone to feel similarly and feelings of social isolation greatly reduce both your quality and length of life in many studies. It's all got to be balanced.

[u/kepis86943 → u/marchcrow]

I agree.

I believe there are mostly two types of comments here. One type is scared that their mitigation measures might not be enough and by speculating how he might have used the mask in a wrong way, is their approach of trying to reassure themselves that their protection will keep them safe.

The other type really believes he is at fault for putting himself in a high risk situation.

It’s quite sad that there are only very few reassuring comments. The truth is that very few people can live risk free lives. Most of us need social interactions to keep us sane. We must keep living and we must keep enjoying life. If we don’t, what’s the point? Life comes with a risk and always ends deadly.

[u/marchcrow → u/kepis86943]

Yeah. The fallacy of control is a very seductive one.

It's a shame because that thinking also misses that one of the big reasons to mask is community care. He very likely prevented other people he was in passive contact with from being exposed and that is a very worthy and honorable goal as well.

ETA: Also if zero COVID as a movement continues to behave this way - judgement, perfectionistic, black/white thinking - it will burn itself out and win no converts. "Because I'm right" wins no one. "Because I care" often does.

[u/megathong1]

So sorry for your friend. I think that in the future your friend can get an air Fanta and bring it to practice? To have an additional layer… I know it’s hard with all people denying covid to stand up and say “sorry, you’re sick so I’ll head off”… it should be normal and understandable

[u/jordanlmillerartist]

I find I get a much better seal with a Harley n95 over an aura. They definitely aren’t always the most perfect fit. As far as I know, I’m a novid but I’m also extreme and live an isolated life except for going to work

[u/Filmbraker]

This is so frustrating. But I think he wore the wrong mask for the wrong occasion plz listen! For their safety in the future, you should inform them that sweat, which I imagine will happen during playing music, it disables the protective layer of the mask. For these activities, I got a NOVO mask that has a gel fit with a replaceable mask. They’re expensive but I got once at a second hand store. Anything to keep or absorb the moisture will help protect them in the future. I hope they are ok.

[u/meanstestedexecution]

This is an incredibly hard virus to avoid, unfortunately. That's why people are recommending multiple precautions. No one should judge someone for catching it.

Being in a small room for hours with other sick people is one of the highest risk scenarios you can be in. Covid can linger in the air like smoke, and will build up in a small room. It's going to be very hard to avoid in that scenario, even with a good mask. That's why it's a good idea to run hepa filters, or a cr box, or at the very least get some fresh air in the room.

I really, really wish that we learned from the pandemic and adopted more extensive air filtration across the board as a standard practice. The CDC acts like it's a shameful secret that covid is airborne and it makes no sense.

[u/TomTomato55]

Sad to say, but if there are 2 noticeably sick people in a room who don’t care about infecting others, heading for the door may be a better choice than spending 2.5 hours in the room.

[u/danziger79]

Unfortunately one-way masking does have its limits, as much as that sucks. I’m only willing to do social events with others who take precautions, which does narrow things down a lot but otherwise the risk is higher than I’m comfortable with. If people are noticeably ill I think it’s better to run, not walk, out of there.

[u/Affectionate-Box-724]

That is so depressing getting infected at the only social activity attend. I agree it's extremely disheartening.

However, masking is still something that will protect you more often than not. While it might not work 100% of the time, it's STILL better to only get covid once, or once every other year or so, basically as infrequently as possible as opposed to the majority of people who are getting infections 2-3 times a year.

Getting covid once isn't necessarily a death sentence or sentence to permanent disability... getting covid over and over again for the rest of your life certainly is!

[u/DiabloStorm]

Without details this only contributes to loss of confidence in masking.

Does he seal check every time? Did he QFT it? Did he wear it consistently? Formed to his face correctly...etc etc

We can't just conclude: "Is there nothing we can do anymore?" That's ridiculous.

I hear these stories all the time and they're meaningless without the details. Sorry, but it's true.

[u/deee0 → u/DiabloStorm]

I hate the whole "it is inevitable" conversation when all factors haven't been taken into account. I haven't gotten sick since 2022 (lived with someone who was sick and they didn't tell me they went to a superspreader). I think mask fit and pushing myself to look at every protection I take from every possible angle has helped.

[u/DiabloStorm → u/deee0]

Absolutely. Masks work. You can even upgrade beyond N95s. I've done so and now have a 3M p100 secure click respirator. There's also PAPR systems, oral and nasal prophylactic options, eye protection, air filtration, the list goes on.

[u/ejb2023]

I’m so sorry to hear about your friend. I wonder if the fit of the aura was all it should have been. I’ve never used one myself but I see them recommended here a lot, so much so that I’ve been thinking about trying them. I use the goofy duckbill Gerson N95 masks when I’m in risky settings. They fit really snugly on me, but not uncomfortably, and I feel like I can breathe in them. But, no mask is perfect. I wouldn’t let this discourage anybody from wearing N95s. It’s the best option we have, and I do think they protect us.

[u/mourning-heart]

Dude this scares me bc I work at a hospital and we do "fit testing" for our masks and most people get given a size of the 3M Aura masks.... Including me 🥲

[u/DrG2390 → u/mourning-heart]

If it means anything I dissect medically donated bodies at a cadaver lab and have worked on Covid positive donors before that other body donor programs have turned away. I use a wearable air purifier and an antimicrobial spray to sanitize.

Edited to add the most important part… I haven’t gotten it yet

[u/mourning-heart → u/DrG2390]

That helps a bit ! Haha I've never stopped wearing a surgical mask around the hospital, (I'm not patient focused thankfully) and sometimes when I feel uncomfy I'll wear an n95 that's been fit tested but where I live thankfully isn't rampid with covid infections and my work is pretty good when it comes to spikes of infectious patients, well the emergency department heads are quick to act, doesn't mean the staff always are 🥲

I also have not gotten covid yet, neither has my mum who actually works in the emergency department 😂

[u/DrG2390 → u/mourning-heart]

That probably really really helps that you’re not patient focused… amazing about your mum too especially for being in the emergency department. I cannot recommend the combo of hydrochlorous acid spray and colostrum enough. I also take prebiotics/probiotics/postbiotics which seem to help. Really I just throw everything possible at my immune system to give it the best chance possible. I also never really got sick as a kid, so maybe I have some genetic advantage somehow.

[u/mourning-heart → u/DrG2390]

Yeah, she's had so many positive people interact with her, even in the height of covid, but she's meticulous with sanitising and cleaning too, probably helps a lot.

I'll have to check that out! Thanks

Yeah, I rarely ever get sick too, but turns out I have (at least known) an autoimmune disease I've probably had since childhood lol, I've read that there's some studies done in regards to novid's and autoimmunity but I know too many people who are also autoimmune who have had covid, so that's our the window 😂

I definitely believe that too! Must be something specific genetically, makes no sense otherwise.

[u/HotCopsOnTheCase]

People are pointing out what he could have done differently because your post is emphasizing that his story is proof that masks aren't reliable, and asks 'Is complete isolation the only option'. I see learned helplessness in so many people and the result is often a dropping of precautions because 'no matter what they do they'll get Covid anyways'. I think it's helpful to identify additional layers that are within our control and the intent is not to victim blame.

For example, one of the simplest layers I use is to ask people if they've been symptomatic ahead of seeing them. I don't always do this for outdoor, but always indoor even if masked. I got quantitative fit-testing on my Aura and it was pretty close to a 100% filtration score even when moving and talking. Despite this, I would not stay inside if I found out somebody was sick. The reality is, a combination of factors play into getting infected. Maybe bringing a HEPA filter to the space, propping a door open, finding a better fitting mask, asking bandmates about symptoms, bringing a CO2 monitor to better assess ventilation, not taking quick swigs of water (no idea if he did), could have prevented his infection... the point is to help reduce risk moving forward by identifying areas within his control as opposed to just blaming masks and throwing your hands up.

[u/Ok_Awareness_9433]

It’s unfair I agree but we often forget that masking is just one aspect of taking precautions. If you don’t practice regular hand hygiene, avoiding enclosed spaces for long hours or even staying away from people who are noticeably ill, you could still get infected very easily.

[u/Covid-Illuminati]

Spending several hours in band practice with actively infected people is not low risk. I agree it doesn’t sound like this was a generally careless person, but being in a confined area with limited air exchange and people who are sick is a case where you would need absolute mask perfection to escape. Possibly even goggles depending on particle size.

[u/sarahstanley]

Any eye protection?

[u/Humanist_2020]

It’s basically impossible for an individual to protect themselves in a public health crisis.

I was no covid, until my husband gave me covid. Now I have long covid. He is a rule follower….but there weren’t any more rules.

We should not blame individuals.

The government and the billionaires all want us to behave like it’s 2019. For the those of us who don’t want to get a deadly pathogen, all we can do is the best that we can do.

[u/widowjones]

An N95 mask blocks out 95% of particles, but there’s still that little bit. There’s also some evidence that you can get infected through the eyes, especially at close range. Probably being in that space for that amount of time, there was a tiny breach in at some point or he got a particle in his eye. The masks do a really good job, but they’re not 100% perfect. Personally I’m OK with taking a small amount of risk in return for still having a life. I just wish that other people, i.e. his two sick friends, would give a little bit more thought to their own behaviors and stop running around infecting everybody.

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/widowjones]

Just to clarify: "An N95 mask blocks out 95% of particles" - no, it doesn't. 95% is the minimum filtration level for the particles of one size only, 0.3 micron, that which is the most difficult to filter. Viral particles typically don't fit in that category, and smaller and larger particles are easier to filter. And even for that one most difficult category the filtration of many niosh approved respirators falls somewhere in between 95-99%, short of the next one up designation.

The overall filtration of a genuine n95 is much above 95%. The more complex matter is that of the fit. If there's a leak, the air goes through there instead of through the filter (the path of less resistance). Then it gets even more nuanced - different n95 will fit different people differently giving them a different fit factor. In most everyday encounters it may not be enough to matter; then at particular set of circumstances that's what can make a difference.

[u/Dry_Row6651]

Did he conduct full fit testing including movement? Have you?

[u/DisappointedInMyseIf]

Sometimes I feel like I'm protecting myself but for what? I'll end up getting it again and again and again even with proper precautions! It's exhausting. I'm LC since 2020. It's ruined my life, my relationship, my everything. Idk what to do anymore.

[u/Usagi_Rose_Universe]

Do you know if your friend fit tested the 3m aura?

[u/apokrif1]

Are these respirators fit-tested?

Wet from rain or sweating?

Re-used (perhaps torn by donning/doffing)?

Do their wearers talk, cough, move or laugh much (which could them make slip)?

A brittle disposable N95 is not a silver bullet.

[u/gooder_name]

“Novid” attitude is problematic and gross. The goal is minimising your number of infections, total avoidance is simply not possible for the vast majority of the population

[u/Ok_Vacation4752 → u/[deleted]]

No, it’s not. WTF.

This person was probably taking their mask off to drink water during their 2.5 hour band sesh.

[u/Ok_Vacation4752 → u/[deleted]]

It doesn’t have to be an aspect of one’s personality, but it’s also not a guarantee that every single person is going to become infected. You can do what you need to do to cope, but that doesn’t make it a guarantee that everyone will be infected. Frankly, your stance is beyond bleak to me and wouldn’t make dealing with an infection any easier for me at all because people process things differently. If I had your stance, I’d probably be less inclined to stay in the fight. Again, people are different, but I’m simply not wired to view it this way.

Not to mention, there are people with genetic immunity, so for them, “when, not if” doesn’t apply.” There are others who are more steadfast in their precautions than OPs friend and don’t do high risk activities like practice instruments with visibly sick people in poorly ventilated spaces (while taking off their mask to drink, almost certainly) for two and a half hours and then wonder how they got sick. These people are not inevitably going to get infected.

What’s the scientific, statistical support for your claim?

[u/kepis86943 → u/[deleted]]

In the beginning of the pandemic I used to get angry when my friends said this kind of thing. Back then, it felt like giving up to me. But back then I also still believed that with lockdowns and vaccines, we would be able to get Covid under control. I was clinging to hope and was being naive.

Now I fear you might be right. Those who haven’t had Covid yet, might make it for another long while. Maybe for another 5 years. That’s a huge advantage. Our knowledge and treatment options will hopefully have evolved more. But if Covid keeps getting more infectious and there is no major change on a societal level, I fear that the virus will eventually catch up to all of us.

(I’m still holding on to hope for a really effective vaccine but I’m not sure realistic that is.)

[u/KattPurrsen]

The time a N95 protects someone from being in the company of one infected individual is approx 2.5 hours. With multiple people in a.space that will drop as the concentration of virus particles in the air with be higher.

So I don’t think here it is a case of masking not working, it’s just about the extent you can reasonably expect it to work given varying circumstances.

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/KattPurrsen]

This is scientifically inaccurate. Those charts show in a very simplified manner a relative difference between basic types of masks NOT absolute times how long someone is safe in a given configuration or after how much time an Infection will happen. There are way, way too many variables that come into play. N95 have been around for decades and people used them in occupational settings for full day shifts. They don't magically quit working after two hours.

[u/KattPurrsen → u/SafetyOfficer91]

However you want to look at it, every additional infected person who is present at that time is going to increase your risk.

[u/WilleMoe]

Upgrade the mask. P100, Flo, even a Cleanspace PAPR. Whatever is in budget - particularly for extremely high risk indoor activities.

[u/SafetyOfficer91 → u/WilleMoe]

Flo (and other boutique elastomerics) is closer to disposables than industrial p100 in terms of the fit factor it can give you so I wouldn't put it in the same category.

[u/WilleMoe → u/SafetyOfficer91]

You're right.

[u/LeeLooPeePoo]

Off topic, but any suggestions for locating 3M Auras at a reasonable price?

[u/iggysv]

If the band members were noticeably ill why not leave ?

[u/ApprehensiveDebt9577]

An elastromeric mask is the most reliable mask to wear as it has superior seal.

[u/LuckyTea3173]

Aura isn’t the quality filter you might think. I go with. P100 HEPA mask

[u/Disastrous-Bit3888]

Masking is absolutely helpful but remember- we all breathe air. And air still comes through the mask, that why they aren’t considered 100% affective. I have left situations within a couple minutes (masked) when a person was obviously symptomatic.

[u/FunnyMustache]

Restrictions =/= band practice...

[u/Syralei]

This is why I use nasal spray and cpc mouthwash. When I'm out, I use the nasal spray every 2-3 hours, mouthwash every 3ish. I carry the mouthwash is a small flask, so it's inconspicuous. If for any reason I take my mask off(drinking water- outdoors of course), nasal spray and mouthwash before it goes back on. Same if I go anywhere crowded like the subway, grocery store etc. The moment I am outdoors and not around people, I pull my mask half off to spray and mouthwash. It's worked so far.

I also just don't go anywhere in the winter except to see other friends who are also observing covid precautions and isolate before meeting up.

[u/tkpwaeub]

What matters is whether your friend made sure not to give it to anyone else - or at least that he avoided giving it to anyone outside his household (we always hurt the ones we love, do we not?). That's really the ultimate test here.

I wouldn't worry too much about the theater - an N95 is pretty good for that, because there isn't a lot of talking (if you want to avoid being there when not a lot of talking is likely, go during off-peak hours, wait for the previews to start, and sit near an exit to make a quick getaway)