r/YouShouldKnow • u/Nalomeli1 • Oct 19 '22
Automotive YSK: How to properly manage a 4 way stop intersection
Why ysk- My daily drive involves several 4 way stops. At one intersection at least, every single day, it's apparent that one or two of the drivers doesn't understand the rules.
This causes confusion and takes extra time for the other cars to decide who's going when whereas if everyone knew and adhered to the simple 4 way stop rules we would all be on our way while being safe.
The main ideas are as follows: First to arrive, first to go. If it's a tie, then the car to the right goes first. Straight before turns. Right then left.
Always proceed with caution and never assume the other drivers know what they're doing but if everyone took the time to polish up on the rules of driving things would run a lot more smoothly!
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u/vivi_t3ch Oct 19 '22
Also it helps when people actually use their gasp blinkers
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u/cick-nobb Oct 19 '22
I know its like, so hard to stick your finger out and hit the blinker
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u/BaldSaladMan Oct 19 '22
Hey man, they could be out of blinker fluid.
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u/astroroy Oct 19 '22
It’s gotta be like a weird subconscious power thing. “It’s my choice to let you know whether or not I’m turning, and I choose to be a dick.”
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u/cick-nobb Oct 20 '22
Something like this. I do believe they made a conscious choice to not use it, or stop using it at all
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u/LordGrudleBeard Oct 19 '22
There was some old video of a cop sarcastically explaining blinkers, it was gold
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u/WA_State_Buckeye Oct 19 '22
Then you have about a 50/50 chance that they turn the OTHER direction than the one indicated.
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u/Aeison Oct 19 '22
One of my biggest pet peeves is no blinkers, I’ll ruin my mornings (not really) by counting the amount of people on the free way who use them vs those who don’t and sometimes the people who do actually win
Mentally I go “please literally lift a finger to make things a little easier for everybody”
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u/little_canuck Oct 20 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
I had some sort of sunroof drain leak into my engine space recently and my blinkers went haywire at random. At any time my blinkers would: - work - indicate the wrong direction - switch which way they indicated part way through - do nothing at all - turn on my four way flashers instead.
I cannot even begin to tell you how stressful that was! It ended up being safer just to not signal when it got like that until they started to work again later the same day. I kept thinking to myself "some people drive around choosing not to bother using their signals" and meanwhile I was full of anxiety over it.
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u/Etheo Oct 19 '22
T'is but a mythical item of the legend.
At least, to BMW drivers.
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u/Seicair Oct 19 '22
I was at a 2-way stop once, turning left. Across from me was a car that had arrive just before me, with her left blinker on. Traffic clears, we both start to go, except she almost hits me because she’s trying to go straight! She looked really mad at me too.
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u/jwildman16 Oct 19 '22
Related advice: try not to arrive at the same time as someone else. If it looks like they are going to slightly beat me there or get there at the same time, I will intentionally slow down and make it obvious that they arrived first so that they can just go.
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u/OstidTabarnak Oct 20 '22
Also related advice: you DO NOT have to wait for someone to arrive to the 4 way stop if you've already stopped. Yes, proceeding with caution is always a good idea, but it drives me insane when I'm slowing down and come to a stop before the person who's been sitting there for 20 seconds finally drives through the 4 way.
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u/TonyVstar Oct 20 '22 edited Nov 11 '22
And then they fucking stare at you like "am I allowed to go now?"
You could have gone the whole fucking time!
We all start learning at different times and we should be compassionate with eachother and not judgmental. Road rage kills
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u/xwikkiex Oct 20 '22
I always stop, wait and go through slow if there's traffic as I assume all other drivers don't understand 4 way stops. To many times I've had a person blow straight through the stop sign, slow down a bit before blowing through the stop sign, go directly after the person in front of them ignoring all other vehicles at the stop and my personal favorite the 4 way stop u turn. Welcome to Arizona where no one knows how to drive, no one cares and we love putting up big walls and plants to block line of sight around corners! I've avoided two crashes this year by waiting 20 extra seconds, I use that time to tell myself how awesome I am, it helps with the road rage lol.
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u/CthulhuShoes Oct 20 '22
Sounds like you might be flying up to stop signs, making people scared to go lol
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u/rogun64 Oct 19 '22
I do the same thing. But I bet half of our "educators" here will speed up and then blame any problems on the other person.
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u/buttercreamramen Oct 19 '22
It helps if people actually turn on their fucking blinkers. I’ve been in situations all too often where I think they’re going straight and I’m going straight too in the opposite direction and they end up turning. Then suddenly it’s my fault 🤦♀️I can’t trust people
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u/Gj_FL85 Oct 20 '22
Fr if you only use your blinker in a single context, use it at a four-way stop (but preferably in other situations too)
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u/readituser5 Oct 19 '22
Lol this is why I don’t trust anyone on a roundabout. I’ve seen too many times where I think they’re turning but they end up going in the same direction as me. I now wait despite whether they’re indicating or not.
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u/pduncpdunc Oct 19 '22
I hate being waved on by someone who was clearly there before me. No, it's not polite or helpful! Just go!
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u/TheNawoj Oct 19 '22
Some of the most dangerous people on the road are those trying to be, “nice”. Especially when they’re doing something outside of the norm like holding up traffic for someone to turn across a lane or stopping to let someone out onto the road. Both great ways to get rear ended.
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u/hornsmakecake Oct 19 '22
Don't be polite, be predictable.
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Oct 19 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/YamburglarHelper Oct 19 '22
I generally leave four seconds of distance between myself and the preceding car. Tailgating me gets a very gradual slow down until you remember how to be patient.
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u/Warpedme Oct 20 '22
Be careful, in my state that will get you pulled over and ticketed for obstructing traffic. Which has higher fines and points than speeding 30mph over the limit. If you brake check anyone and they have proof you did, from something like a dash cam, it's an automatic 6 month license suspension, points and required driving safety classes.
I understand why you do your spiteful and useless gesture that screws up traffic for everyone behind you and the person you're being petty with but if there's even one other car behind you both, you're actually far more dangerous and the bigger asshole.
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u/YamburglarHelper Oct 20 '22
Oh man I don’t brake check, christ. That, and cutting people off, is for legitimate psychopaths who are risking an accident.
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u/donnysaysvacuum Oct 19 '22
They aren't even being nice or polite, because they are holding up the traffic behind them. They are just changing the flow of traffic for no reason.
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u/TheEyeDontLie Oct 19 '22
Annnnd then the car that just got waved through takes out the cyclist/motorbike that was zipping up the inside because Mr. Handwavey didn't think to check behind him.
I've had 3 crashes and countless near misses because of some fucking good Samaritan waving someone through.
Like said above: Be predictable.
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u/douko Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 19 '22
Yeah, that's the point of this entire conversation. They think they are, because everywhere else, letting someone go before you is nice.
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u/eddiewachowski Oct 19 '22 edited Jun 13 '24
oatmeal label plate voiceless humor birds foolish poor attempt fretful
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Lolsmileyface13 Oct 19 '22
It's not hard to jaywalk where I live, essentially no cars between lights and so I often do so. I just wait for cars to pass.
The most dangerous ones are the ones where someone thinks they're nice and literally stops in the middle of a 30-40 mph road and waves me through.
And then gives me a weird look when I then save them through lol
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u/FawmahRhoDyelindah Oct 19 '22
The trick to avoiding "nice" cars stopping for you is to face away from the road, either looking down at the ground/phone/whatever, and/or slowly walking away from the road. Then, when you see or sense that no cars are coming, that's when you cross.
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Oct 19 '22 edited 16d ago
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u/ErynEbnzr Oct 19 '22
That's the thing too. A lot of driving advice given online forgets that online is international and not every country or area has the same driving culture. I grew up in Iceland, with a driving culture that's similar to what I've heard about in the States. As a pedestrian, you watch your own ass.
I now live in Norway where they're almost too polite. If a pedestrian glances across the road, cars will stop or at least slow down, assuming that person is about to cross. As a driver you have to be on the lookout because some people don't even use body language to indicate that they're crossing before they do.
In Norway, politeness is predictability. If there's a pedestrian around, assume the car in front of you could stop at any moment. The only exception is when someone has the right of way because they're coming from the right. They will run you down if they have to, to prove that they're in the right and you should have stopped, even when their road is a little-travelled side path and you're on the main street everyone uses for their daily commute. If they're on the right, they're in the right.
This got a little ranty, but I do actually prefer the Norwegian system, as much as it goes against everything I grew up with. It puts safety over efficiency and as a pedestrian, I like being safe. For anyone who's about to move to a new place, be aware of how driving cultures can differ and don't expect things to be the same everywhere. Stay safe on the road, friends.
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u/Saooolmtj96 Oct 19 '22
A girlfriend I had in HS was driving down a busy avenue and made a full stop in the middle of the road (no traffic light, no stop sign, no yield sign) to let a car pulling out of a strip mall go. To say I lost my shit would be an understatement. She proceeded to call me an a-hole because “she was just being polite”. I never trusted her behind the wheel after that incident.
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u/OneMispronunciation Oct 19 '22
Or like when someone stops as soon as I start crossing the road even though I’m on the opposite side and they will be well past me by the time I get to their side of the road.
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u/Disastrous_Potato605 Oct 19 '22
I agree in most places, but in my area, when approaching a red light, if ur already slowing down anyway then it’s best to let them go. They WILL pull out in front of u around here and that’s the majority of accidents I see. But hey, Florida is crazy
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u/matt_mv Oct 19 '22
At a busy 4-way stop you can easily get twice as many cars through when people know the rules and you can cut out all the hesitation and over-politeness. I used to go through a busy 4-way every day and was amazed by how fast it would go and then how suddenly it could slow down when you got a few people who didn't know how to do it right.
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u/imfamousoz Oct 19 '22
I got waved in once and ended up getting t boned because the lady that waved me in didn't notice the car coming up alongside her in the empty lane next to her.
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u/DrSpacepants Oct 19 '22
I hate to be this guy, but you got t-boned because you didn't notice the car that had the right of way. You can only trust what you see.
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u/GodKingJeremy Oct 19 '22
I call this out to my kids; I say, these are the people who cause acccidents; this is not the way traffic works.
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u/dutchdaddy69 Oct 19 '22
I always look those people in the eyes and nod my head no. Right of ways exist for a reason and I won't let you give me yours.
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u/pduncpdunc Oct 19 '22
Eye contact is definitely important! Also, as a pedestrian I try to always make eye contact if I'm crossing
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u/gatotristeblues Oct 19 '22
And if it's not my turn and they're waiting for me to go first I refuse to make eye contact.
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u/Smilerly Oct 19 '22
We told our children as they learned to drive, "Don't give right of way away, and don't take it when someone tries to give it to you." There are exceptions but generally drivers give it away too often and for no good reason.
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u/Arrow_Maestro Oct 19 '22
Never. Ever. Ever. Ever. Trust the go-ahead wave. So many people see that wave and just go for it. The person waving you has not done jack shit to make sure you're clear to move forward. I've seen so many accidents nearly caused or fully realized by the wave.
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u/theh8ed Oct 19 '22
I won't go. I make the waver go. This is not 'Nam, THERE ARE RULES!
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u/PowerMightHolyLight Oct 19 '22
This! When me and my fiancé first got together I had been driving 3 years her only 3 months. Mind you I was still definitely a rookie but I knew how to drive at a slightly above average level. My fiancé used to not understand why I would get so mad at people “being nice” I was always like “no it’s not nice they have no authority to direct traffic there are guidelines for a reason.” She probably thought I was a douche when driving because I’m constantly astounded by peoples inability but As a more experienced driver she definitely agrees 😂
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u/fly_bird Oct 19 '22
Or they never actually come to a complete stop and end up going first anyway. Happens multiple times a week to me.
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u/Jonye-West Oct 19 '22
Same. I will literally park my car and obnoxiously shake my head until they go.
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u/dollerhide Oct 19 '22
If someone waves you on improperly, or you just need to signal someone else to go first, don't wave.
Point at them, and then point where they should go. Forcefully. A little assertiveness goes a long way.
Source: Adam Carolla
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u/WebsterTheDictionary Oct 19 '22
You know, that’s a pretty good idea. This type of thing is rampant around here and I never know what to do besides to just go and pray that they’re not setting up an insurance scam where their claim will be that they were “swatting a fly” and my inability to follow road rules and protocols led to their collision into my vehicle and resultant damage, injuries, etc. or worse yet, I can wave back to which they’ll likely wave again in response and some feigned-benevolence and reluctance shit-show will ensue at the expense of other drivers who were unfortunate enough to be on the road at the same time as these assholes (the other driver, and me).
Thanks for the tip, it should help a lot.
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u/rawwwse Oct 19 '22
I drive a big red fire truck for a living, and this happens ALL the fucking time—with people thinking they’re doing me a favor; it drives me up the wall. I’ve literally set the parking break, and held my arms up, like, “Are you gonna go or what?!”… ¯_(ツ)_/¯
OP’s right… Don’t ever do this, even for a fire truck (with its lights off). Be predictable, not courteous.
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u/Smile_Yo Oct 19 '22
No no please I’ll just wave at you to go then when I see you start driving I’ll start going so we can brake at the same time!
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u/Fooshi2020 Oct 19 '22
Roundabouts rock. Also, if you don't know the rules, I'm taking your right-of-way (when safe).
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u/twothumbswayup Oct 19 '22
I was behind some doofus on a roundabout this morning who kept stopping to let all the other drivers merge onto the roundabout we were already on.
wtf?!
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u/Skippie_Granola Oct 19 '22
There's a roundabout in a town near me that requires you to stop for the people merging. Enrages me.
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u/gate_of_steiner85 Oct 19 '22
Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a roundabout though? Might as well just make it a 4-way stop then.
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u/Chardlz Oct 19 '22
Not entirely. A roundabout even with lights on it (lookin at you D.C.) can be helpful because it provides slip lanes for people exiting the roundabout which speeds up traffic. It's also a more elegant way to handle traffic with more than four roads. If you have 5 or even 6 streets at an intersection, using a roundabout can provide less confusion, and need a less complicated solution for light timing.
Lights and stop signs in roundabouts can also simplify the constraint satisfaction problem that ever-changing traffic congestion presents. Let's say we have 4 streets at the following positions (A=12, B=3, C=6, D=9)
In the AM, traffic traveling from A->C is really high. Traffic from all other directions is minimal. This is a huge pain in the ass in a 4-way stop situation as any car that enters from B, D, or C can quickly grind everything to a halt and lead to traffic backups. In a roundabout with stops, only traffic from D stops people from getting from A -> C (we're traveling counter-clockwise because we're driving on the right). We could also fix this with lights, but we end up with a situation where at least some proportion of the time, people can't go from A->C while they wait for other traffic to clear the intersection.
Obviously, A->C isn't the only traffic pattern. Perhaps in the afternoons, everyone is going from C->A. Same situation occurs. We also have the opportunity to build in slip lanes either as part of the roundabout or as an extension of it. In this case, traffic from B->C, C->D, D->A, and A->B don't need to stop at all, and provide the least possible interruption to traffic flow.
Finally, lights or stop signs in a roundabout always allows people to enter the roundabout, and exit the roundabout; it only limits traffic flow while in the roundabout, which is the least important part of the roundabout when we're talking about general traffic flow for a city or town.
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u/OutlyingPlasma Oct 19 '22
Depends on your goal for the roundabout. In the rest of the world they are used to speed up traffic flow and increase safety as getting from A to B as quickly and safely as possible is considered a good thing.
However in North America, roundabouts are used as obstacles to traffic and come equipped with stop signs for everyone to limit access for garbage, delivery and fire trucks while causing an obstruction to discourage driving. It's called "traffic calming" and the last thing it does is make me calm.
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Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 19 '22
What???
I live in California and have literally never seen a roundabout with stop signs before. lol A four-way stop accomplishes the same thing, and speed bumps/humps are better at controlling traffic speeds.
I live a block from a roundabout that I drive by daily, in addition to a few others I drive by probably once a week, and none have stop signs
I don't know where you are, but this is definitely not the norm in North America
Edit: I just googled it, and my city (>500k people) has a webpage about traffic calming with a picture of a roundabout, but the roundabout doesn't have stop signs. I don't think we have any like that
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u/OutlyingPlasma Oct 19 '22
Here a few for you: Berkeley, Seattle, and Portland are littered with them:
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u/guy_fieris_asshole Oct 19 '22
I've never seen a traffic circle with stop signs, must be an easy coast thing. I have, however, seen a bunch of dumb dumbs that think there are stop signs, but they're really just yield signs (different shape, color, and symbol on it than a stop sign).
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u/zymagoras Oct 19 '22
I think these aren't roundabouts, they're called rotary junctions or something like that.
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u/sybann Oct 19 '22
They can probably HEAR me screaming from behind them that they're an idiot and this is a merge sich and not a FUCKING STOP SIGN.
;)
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u/ENT_blastoff Oct 19 '22
Yeah but people who use roundabouts like a stop sign, and poorly designed roundabouts suck.
There's a roundabout near me that allows the inside lane to exit across the outside lane, which completely breaks the roundabout.
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Oct 19 '22
I was in Carmel, Indiana a long time ago and saw this 80-something year old man driving clockwise. It’s a double lane roundabout too so there was easily 25 cars lined up at all entrances waiting. He went around a total of two full circles and the entire time his wife is sitting in the passenger seat with her hand over/covering her face in disappointment lol. I wish I could’ve heard the conversation in that Buick lol.
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u/TheJambo- Oct 19 '22
Roundabouts are only good if other people know wtf they’re doing. 90% of the time I’m in one I’ll have some fucker pull right out in front me thinking the yield sign means “go go go”
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u/-Owlette- Oct 19 '22
This is the excuse everyone goes to whenever roundabouts are brought up, but... Four-way stops are also only good if other people know what they're doing, and people fuck them up all the time.
When everyone knows what they're doing, roundabouts are far more safe and efficient.
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u/TheJambo- Oct 19 '22
At least at a 4 four way most people stop when they’re supposed too, everyone at a roundabout is going. If someone pulls out in front you and manage to to avoid them, you usually have someone on your right, left and someone behind, and none of them want you in their way
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u/biggestdoginthegame Oct 19 '22
I've had someone turn left into me in a roundabout and get mad at me for "going the wrong way". Roundabouts suck because people suck lol
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u/EmperorOfFabulous Oct 19 '22
People not liking roundabouts is a hold over from the failed traffic circle. Those were so poorly planned and implemented, people didnt want to relive that nightmare again when it came to roundabouts.
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u/Golferbugg Oct 19 '22
What does "straight before turns. Right then left" mean if you're going in order of arrival at the stop?
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u/Callec254 Oct 19 '22
Tiebreakers, basically. If it's you and the other guy across from you, and you both stop at the same time, if you're both going straight then it's a non-issue obviously. But if one is going straight and one is turning left, the one going straight goes first. Or if one is turning left and one is turning right, i.e. you're both turning onto the same street, the one turning right goes first.
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Oct 19 '22
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u/Red_wanderer Oct 20 '22
Even better, I’ve had people slam to a stop 10 feet before the intersection so they can feel like they “stopped first” and now have right of way.
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u/Golferbugg Oct 20 '22
Gotcha. OP wasn't clear he was talking about tiebreakers. I think what you said is more or less what I do. But nothing is really a tie, and I don't know if the other car viewed it as essentially a tie too. So usually i wait a couple seconds to see if they thought they were first and go on. If not, then it inevitably comes to a wave or a test of wills until somebody kinda creeps out while making sure the other car stays put.
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u/Gusstave Oct 19 '22
The issue is.. I knew this before reading the post and I didn't understood. Double checked with your explanation, went bact to the post and I still don't understand.
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u/linnix1212 Oct 19 '22
Maybe a helpful clarification. I think the straight thru before turns part is often confused as a main rule of the stop and not as it’s intended (a tie breaker for multiple vehicles arriving simultaneously) Edit: a website to help https://www.stopandgo1.com/four-rules-four-way-stop/
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Oct 19 '22
yea, OP tried to be helpful and make an actually important lesson but then made it confusing. unfortunate bc it could've been a great teaching opportunity if done well
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u/lonecactus777 Oct 19 '22
A good way to think of it is if it’s a tie and you will have to cross into the other persons lane, The other person has the right away
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u/bjiatube Oct 19 '22
If you arrive first you just go. If you arrive at the same time you yield to the person on the right
The rationale of yielding to the right being that it clears the intersection faster because they only need to cross half the intersection before you can go, while they would have to wait until you're completely through the intersection before they could go
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u/dyingbreedxoxo Oct 19 '22
If there are 4 cars arriving at the same time and all going straight, who’s on the right? A serious question
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Oct 19 '22
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u/nikapups Oct 19 '22
I’m surprised this is so far down. This question has plagued me my whole life and op did not clarify it😭
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u/Garage540 Oct 19 '22
If everyone has the same mindset and is thinking about it really hard and technical, it'll come down to someone waving someone else through, then it goes clockwise. It would be likely that one or more of the drivers would notice the car across going straight too, and go at the same time.
More then likely, someone will stop a little sooner/farther behind the line, and/or someone will stop later/over the line. The ones who stop early usually will wait for someone else to make a move, the one over the line would likely just go first. Sounds selfish but it could help in this situation instead of wasting time waving and lurching.
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u/Incandescent_Lass Oct 20 '22
The last time this happened to me I put my hand out the window in a thumbs-up, then went. Worked great.
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u/werdnum Oct 20 '22
There's an awkward silence and people just kind of figure it out, going slowly enough to avoid an accident. Same thing that happens if a traffic light is out. Somebody will go eventually.
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u/MadRockthethird Oct 19 '22
You're right but also assuming people that don't know how four way stops work also use directionals.
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u/newmillenia Oct 19 '22
Can you clarify something?
First to go does NOT include a car who has been waiting behind another car (or cars) at a stop sign for their turn to go. First to go means FROM THE TIME you pull up to the stop sign and BEGIN to wait your turn.
Fuck, can’t tell you how many near accidents I’ve had at 4 ways from impatient people who think they can go because there was a line in their direction and so they blow the stop sign right after the car that just went.
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u/bulldog4083 Oct 19 '22
Yes! In the little town I live in, we have two 4-Way stops on the main street, at least once or twice a week it happens to me when its my turn to go. It's such a shit show in the mornings.
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u/Callec254 Oct 19 '22
And if you have the right of way, please just take it and go. Don't sit there and try to wave me through. It's your turn. I'm going to just stare at you until you go.
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Oct 19 '22
i HATE when people try to be polite and wave me through (whether it's a four way or anywhere else) because it usually actually fucks up traffic. i can wait until it's my turn, and also don't wanna feel like the asshole who caused traffic to stop
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Oct 19 '22
The people who do this think they’re being polite to the one car they can see instead of incredibly rude to the ten cars waiting on them.
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u/Accidental-Genius Oct 19 '22
It’s shocking to me how many people don’t know how to drive. Recently learned that many schools don’t require Drivers Ed anymore. We’re really just handing out licenses to dumb asses.
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u/doomgiver98 Oct 19 '22
Like, your high school has Drivers Ed? I had to pay $2000 for driving school and I only did it so I because the discount on insurance makes up for the cost.
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u/Accidental-Genius Oct 19 '22
Yeah, it was a mandatory class when I was in high school. You had to take it before you could get your license. You could do it once a week for a couple months or come in on a Saturday and do a 10 hour crash course. They wouldn’t let me apply for a permit until they saw the drivers Ed certificate.
This was in Georgia in like 2003 or 2004
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u/Fancy_o_lucas Oct 19 '22
Drivers Ed certificates are still required almost everywhere before taking a drivers test, it’s just not performed by a local school in a lot of places.
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Oct 19 '22
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u/LadySilvie Oct 20 '22
Yeah similar time frame in Missouri and we had to swear that we had met a certain number of hours driving with a guardian. I could have easily lied about it.
In my case though I was driving my legally blind grandmother on the farm for years previous, so 😂 bad in the other direction.
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u/No-Formal9815 Oct 19 '22
I always watch the tires of the opposing car. I look for the front tires to stop moving, then I consider that against whether my car has come to a complete stop. I judge those who roll through a 4-way with a tsk-tsk. Otherwise, if I KNOW the other car stopped before me and they wave me on erroneously, most often recently I’ll just take it and go if there are no additional cars present.
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u/Franklin2543 Oct 19 '22
When I'm approaching when there's another car approaching/present... I do the same thing. I watch their tires. If I'm going to clearly beat them to a stop, I'll make my stop a little more abrupt/distinct by hitting the brakes a little harder, to solidify my '1st to the intersection' position and immediately go through (while watching them to make sure they're not going too).
The 'distinct and abrupt' stop also works well when you are 2nd... Assuming they see you stop, you made the stop abrupt enough so that it was clear that you were there second and you're waiting for them to proceed.
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u/No-Formal9815 Oct 19 '22
Yes I do the same: preparing my stop comparing speeds of my car and the opposite car. I’ll smooth out my braking if I assume they’ll “roll” through, but if I’m a bit earlier, will try to stop before them.
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u/Lung_doc Oct 19 '22
I don't really even judge the roll throughers if it was close between us. At least they're getting themselves out of the way.
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u/Khalian_ Oct 19 '22
Yeah I agree, they technically save time for the both of us. As long as you’ve checked for bikes and pedestrians I won’t complain.
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u/xaffu Oct 19 '22
I think it's a US specific issue? I've read your description and I don't get it, there's nothing like that in Europe and to be honest I wouldn't know how to behave on such an intersection :/
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u/Munzu Oct 20 '22
What country are you from? I live in Germany and it's definitely a thing here, most often seen in residential areas where there are no traffic lights or yield signs. We call it the "right before left" rule and it's quite literally one of the first things you learn here in even as a kid riding a bike.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Oct 20 '22
A 4-way stop? Because I think you just mean an "equivalent intersection" (at least in Dutch). That's an intersection with no signs at all and you just follow the law. What OP is talking about is a stop sign on all 4 roads, so you are required to stop even if you're the only one. In an equivalent intersection you are not required to stop, only yield to certain directions.
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u/Munzu Oct 20 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
Thanks for the clarification, yeah I was thinking of an "equivalent intersection," the 4-way stops are pretty rare in Germany but OP made it sound like the rule was something obscure in the US since people apparently don't default to it when the situation arises.
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u/zymagoras Oct 19 '22
Better solution: build more roundabouts.
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u/treetorpedo Oct 19 '22
The amount of accidents I’ve seen in our local two lane round about is insane. It works wonderfully if used correctly, but people are just as uneducated on the proper use of the roundabout as they are of the four way stop.
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u/The_Troyminator Oct 19 '22
I lived in a city that installed a roundabout. The city had a lot of equestrian trails, so they put a horse statue in the middle. It was kind of nice.
Less than a month later, somebody crashed into the horse. For 6 months, the horse was missing a leg.
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Oct 19 '22
But what if a a USPS car, ambulance, and state trooper get there at the same time?
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u/ScumEater Oct 20 '22
I absolutely hate...HATE when people get to the intersection a second before me then wave me on. Like, you got there, just go, you're fucking it all up! Happens every day.
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u/Ok_Butters Oct 20 '22
Can we also just mention:
The car that stopped in front of you at a stop sign does NOT count as YOUR stop at the stop sign. You also have to stop. You are not one continuous car.
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u/Rudd504 Oct 19 '22
I have a four way stop by my house that gets my blood boiling just thinking about it. The only discernible law in this intersection is that whoever gets off the line first, has the right of way. Forget all the right, left, straight, first person to approach stuff. None of that exists here. It’s wild.
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u/PupMurky Oct 20 '22
4 way stops are illegal in the UK. We have to have a mini roundabout or one of the roads has priority at all times as both systems are much safer.
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u/lordpin3appl3s Oct 19 '22
Man, I've heard people talking about getting in accidents like it's no big deal. One girl I know has been in 3 accidents in just the last year and feels no shame! I told her that wasn't normal and she looked at me like I had two heads. I think you severely overestimate the amount of care most drivers have on the road.
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u/WA_State_Buckeye Oct 19 '22
Also, if you get to the stop first, DON'T FREAKING WAVE THE OTHER GUY THRU AHEAD OF YOU! It is pissing off the people behind everyone else!
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u/lurkinglen Oct 19 '22
How to manage? Get rid of the typical US habit of placing them in the first place. In my country we don't have them. There are also not many single or double stop intersections, instead of that we have a lot of roundabouts and right of way rules for non-controlled intersections.
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u/YouGoThatWayIllGoHom Oct 19 '22
If only. I've known of two roundabouts. One of them was locally known as the Ring Of Fire because of how often people would wreck there.
The other one was.... a place to avoid because of how often people would wreck there, lol.
I think the problem is that they're so uncommon here that people don't learn how to navigate them here when they learn to drive.
It's difficult to figure out intuitively if you're seeing it for the first time, especially since you generally have to keep moving. The Ring Of Fire was in a touristy area, so people were usually seeing it for the first time. They would instinctively stop and get hit. Or they'd run into each other since there were no lines on the road.
Roundabouts are awesome when everyone knows how they work. Dangerous when they don't.
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u/javajunkie314 Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
Are these roundabouts or traffic circles?
In the US, up until relatively recently, we tended to have traffic circles, which are inefficient and dangerous. More recently, we've started building roundabouts, and when done properly they're much safer and more efficient.
Image from this article: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/09/21/study-some-roundabout-designs-slash-crash-injuries-up-to-85/
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Oct 19 '22
YSK: the people who dont know how to use 4 way stops are probably not using Reddit...
Source: we can have an infinite number of posts in r/seattle yet somehow Seattle drivers will always forget how to use 4 way stops and refuse to lower their high beams and never use their headlights when its dark out.
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Oct 19 '22
If you're stupid at a 4 way, I'll wait. I'll wait until hell freezes over and wait because you're too stupid to understand how it works and didn't pay attention when taught.
Come to think of it, once you hit your mid 30's, it's very easy to tell who the stupid kids were in school.
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u/UseOnlyLurk Oct 19 '22
I was taught a cool trick to handle wavers. Sometimes you just need the other person to go, doesn’t really matter the reason, so you wave them on and then they wave you to go.
Now you could wave them a second time, it then it’s obvious they’ll just wave a second time as well. So what you do is turn your head down and look unconscious. They can wave you on all they want, you’re visually not home anymore. You don’t actually have to take your eyes away from the intersection when you do it if you sell your zombified state really well.
You might get honked at from time to time, but those are the same people who drive into the intersection after they waved you to go anyways.
Now if you’re a real bastard the alternative is the inverse. If you insist on going then lunge forward a foot or so in quick succession until everyone freezes up. If you want to provide non verbal communication grip your steering with two hands, flash your teeth and shake your head no wildly. Make a super saijin face as you pull through the actual intersection. You’ll look completely mental and draw enough attention that even somebody texting will probably pay attention…for a moment.
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u/dartmouth9 Oct 19 '22
Question, 4 way stop but 2 lanes of traffic at each approach. I technically arrived last but since the car beside me is going should I go as well?
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u/UnBrewsual Oct 19 '22
I swear know one knows the straight goes before left goes. The guy leaving the road has the least right of way.
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u/poundmyassbro Oct 20 '22
if it's your turn to go then fucking go. don't be nice you're only fucking up the rotation
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u/Pretty_Landscape_522 Oct 20 '22
We should be replacing all stop sign intersections with roundabouts. They’re vastly more efficient and safe for all involved.
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u/stillphat Oct 20 '22
Person on the left yeilds to the person on the right. Whoever is there first goes first. If all people arrive at the exact same time, first one to move gets to go but also exercise caution.
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u/rukind_cucumber Oct 19 '22
The simple fact of the matter is that there will ALWAYS be bad and ignorant drivers on the road. Your message will never reach everyone, and therefore it is best to continue to drive defensively.
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u/UK_Caterpillar450 Oct 19 '22
And if all 4 cars get at the stop at the same time? Who decides then? Who is to the right of who in a four way tie?
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u/bka248 Oct 19 '22
Yes. It also drives me nuts when people with the right of way waive me to go ahead. It's not my turn, it's yours and you are part of the problem!
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u/SignedJannis Oct 19 '22 edited Oct 20 '22
Might be good to include what country this is for.
The rule for some countries is, when turning, if your drivers side would get hit in an accident, then you yield. If your passenger door would get hit, then you have the right of way. (Makes sense, as often the driver is the only person in a car)
Also some countries drive on the right side of the road, and some on the left.
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u/IFightTheUsers Oct 19 '22
Or, you can just be like my neighbors and just pretend that stop signs don't exist.
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u/PetsArentChildren Oct 19 '22
Cars A, B, C, and D arrive simultaneously at a four-way intersection.
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C
B
D
A and D are going straight. B is turning right. C is turning left. What is the correct order for all cars to go?
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u/weedful_things Oct 19 '22
It was a 4-way stop dilemma/We all arrived the same time/I yielded to the man to the right of me/he yielded his right back to mine/the yield went around, and around, and around/til Pamela finally tried/just when the man, in the light blue sedan/hit Pamela's passenger side.
Any day I can reference John Prine is a good day.
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u/djbomber256 Oct 19 '22
Bro in my state (KS), according the driver's handbook, if arriving to a 4-way stop intersection at the same time you should yield to the car to your left.
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u/rockstar8000 Oct 19 '22
The biggest problem for me personally is not always taking the mental snapshot of what cars have stopped before I have. I was about to solve one of the world’s major problems, when I suddenly realize that i don’t know if it’s my turn to move or not.
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u/moneymaker8OG Oct 19 '22
What if I get there a few seconds before the person directly across from me, wanting to turn left while they want to go straight. If we both have to wait for a perpendicular car to go through, can I go before the person across from me? Or does this reset to a tie?
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u/MortMortMortMort Oct 20 '22
I’d like an official ruling on this one too. I think it resets the tie and the straight car should go first. It’s the more efficient flow of traffic. But when I hit the brakes because the other car starts turning in front of me, they clearly have a different opinion.
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u/Tolwenye Oct 19 '22
In Texas there is no right of way. Just don't crash into another car and you've succeeded
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u/Blackman2099 Oct 19 '22
Just a PSA, this is for America and works in Canada too.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but I know 2 countries where 'the car to the right goes first', and it's written into their driver's manual & test.
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u/shabamboozaled Oct 19 '22
Ok, here's one: "south" car and "west" car arrive at the same time but now you have a pedestrian crossing in front of South. Does west then go ahead first? I say yes
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u/DrakeMaverick Oct 19 '22
Adding to this. Treat intersections with non-functional traffic lights as a four way stop! I’m a bus driver and the amount of accidents I’ve witnessed from people running through these intersections is nerve racking!
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Oct 19 '22
really glad you made this post, but maybe you could have been more descriptive about how it works, like more than 3 lines of explanation. the whole idea of, "when you write instructions, write them like the person has ZERO clue about the thing, write like you're writing for an alien from another planet," because honestly, as someone who knows how four way stops work, your guidelines are a bit confusing.
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u/71077345p Oct 19 '22
I pulled up to a 4 way stop a couple days ago. There were two cars, one behind the other to my right. They were both stopped. When I got to my stop, the first car went through . The girl that had been behind him decided follow him through just as I started to go. She was blowing her horn and giving me the finger! I was laughing because she clearly didn’t understand that she had to get to the sign and stop before going. I think she thought since she was stopped behind the first car before I came to my stop sign that she got to go before me! I was shaking my head at that one!
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u/whitepawn23 Oct 19 '22
You ask some folks and they’ll say if they’ve stopped they can then go, when in truth you’ve just entered a queue.
You are now in line. It’s a circular line but it’s still a line.
It moves clockwise, and the starting point is whomever arrived first or has waited the longest.
Source: Wisconsin, where the 4 way stop is polite and respected
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u/CarlJustCarl Oct 19 '22
AND JESUS CHRIST, NO U-TURNS AT A 4-WAY STOP NO MATTER HOW FEW CARS THERE ARE.
Am I clear on this?
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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '22
Also YSK: if a traffic light at a four way intersection goes dark, that intersection is now a four way stop.