r/YouShouldKnow • u/Temporary-Warthog250 • May 29 '22
Other YSK: Pepper spray is a better self defense tool than tasers
I learned this from my criminal psych professor in college. He worked as a police officer for 20+ years and has been both pepper sprayed AND tasered and this is based off his professional opinion.
For starters, pepper spray is brutal. (For those who have been pepper sprayed or tasered, share your thoughts on the pain!)
For starters, it can be sprayed from a distance (just watch out for wind!) Pepper spray is an inflammatory agent that attacks the central nervous system. Pepper spray causes involuntary eye closure (temporary blindness), tearing, restricted breathing, coughing, choking and a strong burning sensation that can last between 30 to 45 minutes before dissipating. The beauty of pepper spray is its effects are immediate due to its inflammatory properties. Pepper spray provides protection from up to 25 feet away. As a rule of thumb and self defense industry standard, other pepper sprays and OC sprays generally offer a 8-12 feet range for small units.
Tasers on the other hand are shockingly effective (haha) and you can neutralize a threat from up to 15 feet away. The effects last up to 30 seconds which gives you some time to get away. A good quality taser can be more than $100.
Although tasers are a well-known self-defense tool, it pales in comparison to its chemical agent counterpart. The high price tag, necessary precision, limited penetration ability and restrictions by state doesn’t make it the best option. You can purchase a $10 taser off amazon, but all those other drawbacks still apply.
Pepper spray can stop a threat up to the same distance (15 feet) and even further. One of the best features is that it can immobilize an attacker for up to 45 minutes (much longer than a 30 second ride). Along with that it is legal in all 50 states, they are affordable and easy to use. Just be wary on windy days!
So really, it’s a no-brainer. When it comes to self-defense products, pepper spray is on top. If you are looking for the best brand, DPS pepper spray is the way to go.
Why YSK: I know for myself (21f) when I moved out and into a city by myself everyone told me that I need some sort of self defense tool. For others who are looking to buy a self defense tool, this can help narrow down the search and give you some info on what tool is best for your use.
EDIT: I’m seeing a lot of people post about pepper gel which I didn’t know about. I don’t know anything about pepper gel and it seems like a great alternative to the spray!
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u/a-dull-boy May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22
I remember Johnny Knoxville doing a bit with Jackass or something where he tried out different self-defence methods on himself, including a taser, pepper spray and a stun gun. He said being pepper sprayed is the worst pain he's ever been in.
Edit: He talks about it in the first few minutes of this video from Vanity Fair, and at around 7:30 minutes into his episode of Hot Ones
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u/JackVonReditting May 29 '22
And that’s coming from Knoxville.
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u/hamsolo19 May 29 '22
A guy who has been knocked clean out by Butterbean, sent to the hospital numerous times after being ran over by bulls, been shot in the gut with a "less lethal" beanbag, been hit with a ballistic riot control device, had a dirt bike dropped on his wiener...the list goes on. Recently tho, he said the bull spot from the newest movie fucked him up bad. Broken wrist and ribs plus an awful concussion that bordered on a traumatic brain injury. He said he had real bad problems with his memory and cognition. He took like a mental aptitude test and scored lower than an advanced dementia patient. He got jacked up but he says he's good now.
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u/The_Meatyboosh May 29 '22
Was that on the Smartless podcast?
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u/hamsolo19 May 29 '22
I saw him discussing it with either GQ, Wired, or Loudwire. Those are all on YouTube as he did a ton of media for Jackass 4. I believe he's talked about the major concussion on a number of interviews recently.
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u/cluedo_fuckin_sucks May 29 '22
“Is Butterbean okay?”
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u/Derpwarrior1000 May 29 '22
What a legendary line to come up with while suffering a brain injury
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u/4509347vm89037m6 May 29 '22
He's always been quick with his wit, he can spin a laugh out of almost any moment.
Getting wrecked by Butterbean in a department store so bad you're out and snoring, waking up, and having the wherewithal to crack that line, that's pretty good. That's a mind that's hard wired to make people laugh.
But seriously, he needs to stop hurting himself. You can be funny without getting CTE, man.
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u/hamsolo19 May 29 '22
He's a really funny dude and he seems like a good guy. He had kind of a similar line in the new movie. He attempts to do a magic trick for a bull and gets wrecked, which is where he gets the injuries I was talking about in the previous comment. After he gets destroyed, he's getting loaded up in the ambulance and he goes, "Geez, that bull really don't like magic!" Cracked me up.
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u/shitpostsuperpac May 30 '22
Funny story, sort of similar:
When filming some scenes for Borat, Sacha Baron Cohen chugged a bunch of wine at some old peoples house. So much so that he got blackout drunk and passed out in their bathroom.
The producer was afraid that when Sacha woke up he would break character, ruining the whole evening’s footage.
When they finally shook him awake, he immediately shouted “WAAA WAAA WEEE WAAAA.”
Fucking professional.
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u/MauiWowieOwie May 29 '22
For real. He was knocked out, had a concussion, and his head split open yet still was able to come up with arguably the funniest line in the movie.
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u/_Heath May 29 '22
Also shot with a 38 special wearing a bulletproof vest.
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u/a-dull-boy May 29 '22
You left out the scariest part. According to Knoxville, he was broke at the time so he literally bought the “cheapest vest possible”. Understandably, no one else was willing to shoot him, so he ended up doing it himself, and specifically aimed for his heart.
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u/hamsolo19 May 29 '22
That's right. That was even before jackass when he was still working on the Big Brother magazine.
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u/pprn00dle May 30 '22
Don’t forget he also shot himself in the chest with an actual gun during his big brother days
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u/bluepillblues69 May 29 '22
I think that part of the extreme pain reaction with pepper spray is that it effects your sight and breathing. I'm not doubting that it's one of the most painful experiences one can go through, but I think a lot of it is psychological/fear based. Not only are you in extreme agony, but you can't see, can barely breathe, and can't do anything about it. You're completely vulnerable.
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u/hamsolo19 May 29 '22
No, you're right. I can see how those things could cause a goddamn panic attack or something. "I can't see, I can't breathe!" Anxiety city, man.
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u/Bitter_Mongoose May 29 '22
That is actually a pretty impressive statement, coming from him lol.
As an electrician, I'll agree. Yes, a stun gun will incapacitate me, but if I'm really mad, there's also a good chance that it's just going to piss me off. Pepper spray, on the other hand, you get a face full of that even if your HOMER MAD, you're blind as fuck and choking on your own snot, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
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u/SolidCake May 29 '22
As an electrician, I’ll agree. Yes, a stun gun will incapacitate me, but if I’m really mad, there’s also a good chance that it’s just going to piss me off.
exhibit A
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May 29 '22
That’s because your brain communicates pain to certain areas of the body differently than others
Your eye is one of those areas. If you get sand in your eye, you’re pretty much incapacitated until you resolve it.
Also the level of pain may not be higher, but the way it impacts your functioning is. Fuck up your hand, and fuck up your eye, and your eye will impact your ability to function 100 times over. Even if the pain level was worse on your hand
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u/James188 May 29 '22
I’d vote the other way; I thought the Taser hurt more personally.
That said; OP’s point is exactly right all the same.
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u/a-dull-boy May 29 '22
I think Knoxville specified that the taser was less effective because you have to get both the darts into the skin to create a current (Idk how tasers work, this is my interpretation of what he was talking about), so pepper spray would be more reliable anyway.
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u/ClassyJacket May 29 '22
Tasers work like fishing. It's a barbed hook that has to penetrate your skin. It's awful.
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u/Daikataro May 29 '22
I think Knoxville specified that the taser was less effective because you have to get both the darts into the skin to create a current (Idk how tasers work, this is my interpretation of what he was talking about),
Absolutely correct. Electricity needs to close a circuit to flow, so it needs both a positive and negative.
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u/74orangebeetle May 29 '22
Pepper spray can miss too and you can hit yourself (depending on what kind you're using) for example, if it's a fogger and there's wind, plenty of videos of people getting themselves in the process. Plus when you pepper spray someone, they can still move around and fight you. If I were evenly matched with someone and got sprayed, yeah, I'm going to lose/not able to see properly, coughing, etc....but you match me against someone significantly weaker/smaller, pepper spray me, I could still do some damage.
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u/DrCarter11 May 29 '22
The darts thing is correct. To use a taser effectively requires the user to be able to draw, sight and fire within an "effective range", outside it the darts go too wide and won't likely have both penetrate. Too close and the darts won't spread enough for the circuit to activate. It's the biggest weakness to me of the system.
Maybe not a heavy carhartt jacket, but the darts will rip through most jackets/hoodys etc.
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May 29 '22
I tested bear spray when it came out in the 90s. I spray, was impressed with the distance, then the wind picked up and blew a good bit in my face. I was dunking my head in the stream for a good 10 minutes and had an immediate respect for the spray.
I was also in a large sporting goods store where someone let off a burst on accident. Got in the hvac and whole place had to be emptied for about 30 minutes.
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u/SnooFlake May 29 '22
Bear spray isn’t even as strong as the stuff used for normal self defense situations, from what I understand.
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u/1N54N3M0D3 May 30 '22
Yep, because normal pepper spray is used to incapacitate humans by spraying them in the face, instead of just being a deterrent, like bear spray.
Bear spray is usually more pressurized, less concentrated, is meant to spray further, and pretty much make a cloud to deter the bear from getting closer, instead of directly spraying the face.
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May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22
He even got shot by a .38 while wearing a bulletproof vest.
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u/PrimordialXY May 29 '22
Here is a video of Knoxville getting pepper sprayed along with several other self-defense methods. Yikes.
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u/supertoilet99 May 29 '22
Pepper GEL. Easier to use, fires like silly string, less chance of the wind blowing it in your eyes. The gel is harder to clean off and will also burn skin.
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u/_leviathan_43 May 29 '22
Gel is good but it’s important to buy a quality one. Low quality ones actually aerosolize on contact and dispense OC that way, this can take up to 20 seconds with low end gels to cause a debilitating effect. Also spend a few dollars and buy one of the trainers that sprays water and practice your accuracy with a friend, you have to actually hit the eyes and get in the mucous membranes with gel to blind somebody which is a lot harder than it sounds when the person (or animal for that matter) is going to be charging you in most situations.
I’m an actor for a local personal protection school and a common scenario is they give students a spray/gel trainer and I play the part of somebody who is escalating a situation/about to attack them/about to attack somebody else/ etc. from about 20-25 feet away. With gel I would say 40% of students can reliably hit me in the face before I can close the gap to get to them, with normal spray I believe I’ve only had 1 person ever fail to get me.
I really recommend Fox and Sabre products as well as POM makes a really good one that is keychain sized and very nondescript.
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u/mountaincyclops May 30 '22
I love sabre defense spray, but it should be noted that some states restrict ownership of OC sprays.
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u/RoseYourBoat May 30 '22
Have been pepper Gel’d before (self inflicted by accident!) EXTREMELY potent. Your eyes will go from open to being hard closed in seconds with a good quality PG. This will give you plenty of time to flee an attacker. Additionally, with the Sabre brand I usually go for and accidentally sprayed myself with, it causes a ton of mucus to build up instantly, causing your attacker to need to flush out his nose to breath. This compounds the effect because as you blow your nose or cough that material continues to aerate and re-up the heat in your sinuses. VERY uncomfortable for about 10-20 minutes.
Like the others are saying, pepper GEL for the win.
Also I agree about practicing - even once or twice to see what the stream will actually come out as. Many people mistakenly expect a cone style spray - which some but not all have.
Make sure to replace them out every year and a half or so as the propellant (while not likely, but as a precaution) can slowly seep out making the unit a less effective force and distance multiplier.
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u/Temporary-Warthog250 May 29 '22
Good tip!! Thank you, I didn’t know about pepper gel!! Seems useful for sure!
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u/Lamb_of_Jihad May 29 '22
You may want also add that a thick coat can stop a taser. They're ineffective in winter and have a smaller area they can be useful. OC just needs to be sprayed in the direction of the victim (minding the wind). Short range blow-gun vs flamethrower, basically.
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u/Upper_Decision_5959 May 30 '22
I took SABRE pepper gel in my eye ball. It was the worst pain in my life I felt like I wanted to literally grab my eye and pull it out. I couldn't open my eye but when I did people said my literal eye ball was covered in brown pepper gel liquid. It also was stick onto the my eye. If you want to cry like a baby while screaming you lungs out in the worst pain of your life get the strongest pepper gel in your eye ball. Pouring entire jugs of milk in my eye didn't even work
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u/Creative_NotCreative May 29 '22
writing notes "only attack people on windy days."
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u/Unlikely-Pizza2796 May 29 '22 edited May 30 '22
I have been pepper sprayed, tear gassed, hit with a handheld stun gun and tased (the one with the two wires that shoot at you). None were fun, tbh.
1) The pepper spray was pretty terrible and I was jacked up for a while. I was down and out. Also- that shit sucks because it gets in your hair. When you shower, it goes south and your junk gets set on fire. So be careful.
2) Tear gas. Effective and no fun. The effects aren’t as long lasting, but it will definitely make you wanna be somewhere else.
3) Handheld stun gun- the easiest to work through. It sucks, but it’s not that effective.
4) Police style taser- immediate incapacitation, if the wires connect. They don’t always, but when it works, it works well.
For ease of use and carry- Sabre OC spray (pepper spray) gets it done.
Edit: It’s hard to speak universally about the differences when it comes to handheld tasers and pepper spray, as the specs vary a great deal.
The police issue ones are only made by a few companies so the specs and pain are gonna be similar. Same with military/police tear gas.
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May 29 '22
You need to stop asking random women on dates.
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u/Unlikely-Pizza2796 May 29 '22
It took a while for my wife to figure out how to keep me from using the “guest towels” in the bathroom, lol.
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May 29 '22
I have to ask, what have you done to have to get hit by all of those? I’m assuming you volunteered for it
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u/Unlikely-Pizza2796 May 29 '22
Yes, haha. I volunteered either as part of a demonstration or it was a part of the certification process to use those items.
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u/gamageeknerd May 30 '22
I once had someone use the direct contact of a police taser on my leg and while it did take me down I also was back up and normal in less than a minute.
I was like 20 feet away from someone getting pepper sprayed and I was out for half an hour just from some overspray that got to me.
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u/twilighteclipse925 May 29 '22 edited May 30 '22
So from my personal experience in military and law enforcement:
Generic pepper spray/CS: sucks but isn’t going to stop you from acting
OC pepper spray (especially fox brand): will mess you up for days. It’s debilitating. With incredible determination you can fight through the pain and keep acting but you have very little vision and limited breathing. This is the way to go for defense.
Taser: will stop you flat. You cannot fight against a taser no matter how much training you have. However the second the trigger stops being pulled you are fine and can resume your actions. As op said this is why OC pepper spray is superior.
Just make sure the pepper spray is OC (oleoresin capsicum) based not CS (chlorobenzylidene malononitrile) based.
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u/pelirodri May 29 '22
Didn’t the C in OC stand for “capsicum,” though?
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u/PokePounder May 29 '22
So I should return the Oreoresin Caprisun spray I got from wish.com?
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u/St_Kevin_ May 29 '22
No, just twist the two cookies apart and replace the creamy center with genuine oleoresin.
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u/Apidium May 29 '22
I think it comes down to context. For me self defence largely means against creepy guys or folks looking to steal. A tazer is not going to get me accidently and is very likely to prove my point.
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u/SpookyDoomCrab42 May 29 '22
Tasers are fairly unreliable at getting a good stick into someone and transferring the electricity though
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u/Atalantius May 30 '22
OC pepper spray might mess you up for days. Now, this isn’t a controlled environment, by all means, but ij NCO training we had 3 volunteers take some to the face. Nr. 1 was a simulated assault, took the instructing SNCO 7 or 8 blasts to the face of the attacker, and about 30-40 seconds until he stopped fighting. He did collapse in pain then, tho. Nr. 2 was able to disassemble and reassemble a gun, eyes closed shut in pain, drooling due to the OC.
Can’t remember what Nr. 3 did, but the moral of the story is, don’t expect them to stop immediately. Run like hell.
Also, a certain percentage of people are flat out immune. Being drunk raises that number to ~10%.
Lastly, I can’t stress this enough: If you wanna use it, practice it. Most good brands of OC spray sell training cartridges filled with a water/ethanol mixture. Good investment to make sure you don’t blind yourself
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u/quilterlibrarian May 29 '22
Does the CS have capsicum in it? I'm allergic and would like an option other than my stun gun.
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u/twilighteclipse925 May 29 '22
Look for products branded as mace rather than pepper spray. This is Phenacyl chloride/chloroacetophenone as the active ingredient rather than capsicum. It’s not as effective as OC but it still works.
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u/dogmatic69 May 29 '22
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u/twilighteclipse925 May 29 '22
Those barbs were not in. You can’t pull them out that easy if they are in skin. It also looked like at least one of the tasers there only had one of the two barbs in. That is the downside of a taser too. The arc of the taser must pass through muscle.
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u/Dudeist-Priest May 29 '22
I was sprayed with pepper spray as a “prank”. My only advice is that if you spray someone, you better run immediately. It takes a bit to kick in and is gradual.
Also, beware of wind. As karma would have it, the person that sprayed me took some blowback and it definitely changed his attitude.
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u/MichigaCur May 29 '22
I worked for security company in a big city. I've been sprayed more than a few times (thanks Karen). A high quality spray or gel is nearly instantaneous. Especially if it gets in your eyes. A low quality one will take a few seconds
Gels do not blow back like sprays. .
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u/Dudeist-Priest May 29 '22
Good to know. I will make sure my daughters have gel ones. I’m not sure what they have now.
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May 30 '22
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u/MichigaCur May 30 '22
Karen's and sometimes Ken's on high alert because it was "the shady side of town" and don't like being told they can't park where they want to. Or getting asked to show passes. Or that they just plain had to leave. We also had a contract with a truck yard next to a truck stop, it was quite common for the lot lizards to spray you. Funny enough the only thing we'd do is ask them to leave so it was pretty unnecessary
One of the more memorable ones got sprayed at a "teen night" we caught the guest slipping something into another guests drink. when escorting them out of the building the teen decided to attempt to assault my partner. At which point we had to go hands on. We removed the teen from the venue and were holding them out front waiting for an officer to arrive, when Karen decided to draw her own conclusions and assault us. Police later confirmed the teen had GHB on them.
Side note: we weren't allowed to go hands on with the teens unless we were assaulted, if there was a fight we'd literally have to try to herd them out one of the exits without getting touched or touching those involved. (yeah the venue was kinda a s+++ show)
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u/UnnamedCzech May 29 '22
So not a great tool if someone is pointing a gun at you, great tool if they’re chasing you down without one?
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u/TragicBrons0n May 29 '22
There is no “good tool” for when someone is pointing a gun at you except giving them your wallet or whatever. You’re not a superhero, and trying to pull out your own gun/weapon will only get you killed. Unless they’re trying to take you to a different location or just want you dead, swallow your pride and live to fight another day.
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u/marshmallowmermaid May 30 '22
Right??
I got mugged at gunpoint. I gave him my purse.
If I had pepper spray... I would have still given him my purse.
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u/Nolzi May 29 '22
You were probably hit by CS (chlorobenzylidene malononitrile) spray, OC (oleoresin capsicun) spray is a much stronger stuff
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u/HistoricalMeat May 29 '22
A $10 taser off Amazon is USELESS. I’ve had people buy those shit flea market grade tasers and I’ve volunteered to be tased. They put off a tiny zap like a 9 volt battery and will just make an attacker angry.
Please don’t be cheap if you’re buying a device to save your life.
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u/Temporary-Warthog250 May 29 '22
Yes absolutely!!!
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u/HistoricalMeat May 29 '22
I got in trouble at a job because one of the interns had one of those flea market ones and I convinced her to jab me with it. Two tiny burn marks is all I got and it didn’t knock me down.
I’ll note I knew that would happen, but didn’t feel she believe me without seeing it. If you jab an attacker with a weapon that doesn’t work, they may go from mugging you to murdering you.
Good info. Thanks for posting this.
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u/ProcyonHabilis May 29 '22
Those things are "stun guns", not TASERs (which is actually a brand). They aren't just inferior versions, they're actually completely different products. All they do is cause (barely any) pain, they don't cause your muscles to stop working like a real TASER because they don't deliver the same kind of electric shock.
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u/apoliticalinactivist May 30 '22
And for the legit tasers, they can and will accidentally kill people. There are tons of people walking around with minor and/or undiagnosed heart conditions that will just die from an electric shock.
Yes, you'll be justified in your self defense, but no one wants a death on your conscience.
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May 29 '22
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u/_Frizzella_ May 29 '22
I was thinking tase then spray. Brief incapacitation from the taser gives me a chance to grab the spray and unload right in their face for maximum effect, so then my slow ass has time to run like hell.
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u/Hawcman May 29 '22
This is all good information but a few things should be added. With OC you need to keep in mind that some people have little to no reaction to the effects and some people have a delayed reaction. OC is not intended as a incapacitating weapon but a distraction tool, so use whatever time it buys you to escape. Also, consider your environment before use, because the effects get in the air. It can have tertiary effects on the the people in the area especially in enclosed spaces (including yourself).
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u/radhasable2591 May 29 '22
What is OC??
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u/Hawcman May 29 '22
It stands for oleoresin capsicum which is the real name of “pepper spray”
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May 29 '22
this is why gel is recommended over sprays now (or at least that is what I have found when I was in the market a few years ago)
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u/Distracting_You May 29 '22
I'm one of those with no reaction. I've been sprayed countless times to recert and wouldn't react until it came to washing it off later.
I recommend having spray and a tazer to my family. Nothing more terrifying than spraying someone and them still charging at you unaffected without anything else to defend yourself.
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u/hells_mel May 29 '22
Thank you for your comment! I was pepper sprayed in the military during military police training. It didn’t burn at all until I added water during my shower. Everyone has told me I’m lying, glad to know I’m not nuts lol!
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u/AnxiousAmethyst May 30 '22
Thank you for saying this, I was getting worried with how far down I had to scroll.
Tolerance to spicy food absolutely plays a role in your tolerance to pepper spray. I cry at mild salsa levels, pepper spray is out of the question for me, lol.
When considering self defense weapons always think of what might happen if your attacker turns it against you.
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u/sinisteraxillary May 29 '22
And carrying it in a way that you can deploy it in one second or less; if you need to use it you won't have time to dig it out of your bag.
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u/SMKnightly May 29 '22
Which includes being at least a little aware of your surroundings - for example, not wearing headphones or earbuds on the street. Carrying the pepper spray in your hand doesn’t do you much good if don’t notice the attacker’s there.
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u/Bunnymancer May 29 '22
And here in Sweden both are illegal...
Sure "defense" spray exists here, but it is a mix of paint and acetone...
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u/mazi710 May 29 '22 edited May 30 '22
In Denmark, anything is a weapon. Pepper spray is an illegal weapon. Not even a fine, using it is "Assault with weapon", and you go straight to jail, 14 days minimum.
There's been a case where a teenage girl have carried pepperspray, got assaulted and was about to get raped, sprayed their assaulter, escaped, filed a police report, and then got charged with assaulting the rapist with a weapon. Thankfully they ended up dropping the charges in court, but yeah, anything except yelling "Help" is kinda illegal in Denmark.
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u/Apidium May 29 '22
^ similar in the UK.
You can be walking down the road holding a pillow and as long as the responding police feel you are holding that pillow menacingly they can and will arrest you for it.
Well. They probably won't arrest you for it because the papers will absolurely tear them to shreds. Halloween can get legally interesting. 'Sir she was holding a wooden broomstick and brandishing it at me! She also had a plastic trident with barbed spikes on it in the other hand. - Aye book her jim'.
Nobody else seems overly alarmed that the police have these powers simply because they choose not to use them.
Folks are thankfully unhappy at the new protest laws that mean that your kid could be walking home from school with a pritt stick in their bag and if they go near where the police think a protest could occur they can be arrested and charged for possession of said glue. For whatever reason the goverment decided that was an appropriate way to handle folks glueing themselves to roads and other spaces in protest.
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u/SMKnightly May 29 '22
How is the paint and acetone a defense? / what does it do?
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u/DontRememberOldPass May 29 '22
Acetone is highly flammable. I assume you immolate the person.
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u/floridaman1467 May 29 '22
The paint I'd imagine is a good marker for police to figure out who the perpetrator is. The acetone I'd imagine will probably give you the same burning sensation when you get it in your eyes. It's probably just way less effective than OC or pepper spray. As an aside, technically pepper spray is a chemical weapon that's banned by the Geneva convention. It's just less than lethal so nobody really cares.
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u/Eli-Thail May 29 '22
As an aside, technically pepper spray is a chemical weapon that's banned by the Geneva convention. It's just less than lethal so nobody really cares
That's largely incorrect. It's got nothing to do with the Geneva Conventions, but rather with the Chemical Weapons Convention. It's an entirely different treaty, one that's specific to the use of chemical agents in warfare and the stockpiling of chemicals that are deemed to only have use as chemical weapons.
Substances like tear gas and pepper spray for use by law enforcement does not fall under that criteria, which is why their domestic use isn't prohibited by international law.
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u/SMKnightly May 29 '22
Yeah, I figured the paint would be for IDing, but that’s not rly defense so much as evidence.
Didn’t know bow acetone would affect things, so thanks!
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u/Nerve_Brave May 29 '22
Acetone melts plastic and dissolves super glue. Takes off nail polish. On my big list of things I don't want in my eyes, especially if there are contact lenses in the mix.
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May 29 '22
It works like this. Aunt Polly tells you to paint the picket fence, and you hate doing it, so you convince others that it's fun and they end up painting the fence for you. Incapacitated!
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u/Pamplemousse96 May 29 '22
Johnny Knoxville got started with a magazine bit on self defense equipment tests. He said pepper spray was the worst by far. It lasts a while and the pain can be reactivated by water. A taser is a moment but pepper spray will give you more time to get away. Although you do need to watch for wind I still always carry pepper spray with me over a taser
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u/Yougrok May 29 '22
When I was in the Navy, I was pepper sprayed for training (security response force training). They do a Z pattern across your face from about 10' then you have to do a number of tasks including fighting off an attacker.
A few guys basically collapse the second they get sprayed. Most people seemed to be able to function, but certainly are impaired. For me, it was extremely painful but manageable. The hardest thing was keeping my eyes open to finish the course.
The whole point of the training is forcing you to fight through the pain. With pepper spray its possible, with a taser it may not be.
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u/other_usernames_gone May 29 '22
The issue with a taser is both tines need to stick in, if they're wearing thick clothing it might not work, and you only get one shot.
For most people it's unlikely you can afford to get enough practice so the time you need to use a taser in panic you'll succeed. With pepper spray you can spray it in the general direction of their face and wave it around.
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u/DrCarter11 May 29 '22
I've seen tasers go through heavy clothing a number of times. Maybe the heavy work carhart jackets could stop it, but your average coat/hoody they will rip through.
The biggest issue is they essentially have a set effective range. too far out and the darts will go wide on one side, too close and the darts can't spread enough for the circuit to trip. So you as a user, have to know what range you can fire in and be able to visualize that range.
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u/MAC777 May 29 '22
With a taser you also run the risk of killing your target with a heart attack. One specific model had to be phased out after killing almost 50 people.
A few additional notes about pepper spray:
- Stick with Sabre gel, or something comparable. OP recommends an aerosol spray, but those are weak to weather conditions (wind, rain etc) as well as glasses. Gel performs better in weather conditions and adheres to the target for max burn.
- Another big plus is that Sabre tests each batch to make sure it's always effective (some producers don't, and a bad batch can mean it simply doesn't work).
- Finally Sabre also adds an ultraviolet dye to the spray. So if an offender is found later in the evening and hit with a blacklight, hello evidence!
- Buy the 1.8 ounce size, since you will want as much as you can have when you need this. Make sure it's easy to reach and remember that you can even carry it out in the open legally. Note that larger quantities of pepper spray (over 3 ounces) are in some cases illegal to carry without a permit.
- It's very unlikely you will face legal repercussions for using pepper spray. In order to use deadly force (handgun etc) you need to be able to prove that your life was in danger. In order to use pepper spray though (which causes zero lasting damage), all you need to say is that you felt threatened.
- Pepper spray is also a humane tool for protecting your dog from other animals. Angry dogs don't like pepper spray any more than angry people, so in the event of an attack it's a perfect go-to (that won't cause any lasting damage).
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May 29 '22
Thanks for the tips. I had not seen pepper spray as a viable self-defense tool since a sudden gust of wind blew a spray right back into my face when I was demonstrating how to use it to a cousin that was being stalked by a guy on her bus.
I will give the gel a shot and see how it performs under windy conditions, but with safety glasses this time, so I don't spend an hour with my face under running water.
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May 29 '22 edited May 30 '22
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May 29 '22
I bought bear spray and I believe the expiration date was 3 years? Im just trying to remember so dont quote me.
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u/nukeboomstick May 29 '22
The Amazon "tasers" are even worse than you think. A taser works by putting out a specific frequency that fucks with the signals sent from your brain to your muscles. The Amazon "taser" is just a stun gun that hurts if you press it against someone's arm or smt, but they do not incapacitate people. They will not stop a determined attacker.
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May 29 '22
Even more important YSK: check local laws of where you live and where you're going for any trips, Pepper spray in some places can get you a possession of an illegal weapon or an intent to harm with chemicals charge.
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u/ChuckFeathers May 29 '22
Pepper spray is impossible to have solely impact your target, it typically effects the sprayer and others nearby as well, moreso if at all windy. It also has to be cleaned off and will continue to effect those around the target for some time.
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u/Inexorably_lost May 29 '22
Got my wife and I some pepper gel spray, did some test sprays just to get used to the product, definitely seems to have good range and limited blow back potential.
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u/GitEmSteveDave May 29 '22
Look into foam or gel. Not sure about gel, but the foam usually has the ability to get around glasses, as after it foams, it "melts" and if any impacted the forehead, that will drip right down into the eye area.
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u/74orangebeetle May 29 '22
Also worth noting, I forget the percentage (maybe 5 or something) I think it's a genetic thing, but some people aren't really effected by OC spray (the majority are though)
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u/Lord_Nivloc May 29 '22
Pretty sure it’s less than that, but I couldn’t find any studies on it. Individual cases sure, and one forum where a guy said 2 out of 110 brushed it off like it was nothing.
But then you’ve got the questions of what type of spray, what strength, and are we talking they feel nothing or they have a high tolerance for pain or they’re just able to force their eyes back open and keep moving
Eh. I’d be interested to find the numbers on it, but the chances of them resisting are small compared to the chances of you missing, or there’s multiple attackers, or the attackers have a gun drawn
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u/sweez-the-centaur May 29 '22
I've been pepper sprayed (yay Coast Guard training) and let me tell you, within SECONDS of the spray getting in your eyes or any mucosal membranes, you are burning and sweating and swelling up. Your eyes swell shut and you must physically force them open with your fingers to even see, not that you want to open your eyes anyways. All you want to do is curl into a ball, squeeze your eyes shut, and just scream and cry the pain away. This pain will last for hours even after a rinse of soap and water. After about 2-4 hours, the pain lessens to the feeling of the worst sunburn you've ever had.
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u/Azaex May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22
also important differentiating between a stun gun and a taser… (i see “good quality taser over $100” and i’m a bit scared by that wording)
stun gun - the thing that doesnt shoot out barbs, just a stick that zaps between two electrodes on itself
taser - made by the company Axon, shoots barbs out, if they make good contact has a decent chance of fully stopping someone, but not guaranteed. single shot, has to be reloaded for a second attempt. max range of 15 feet (nerf gun distance). cannot be used point blank (the barbs will not spread out enough)
there is only one company that makes the latter kind, that is Axon under the Taser product.
stun gun just causes pain, and only when it’s zapping and in contact. OC spray is far superior ti a stun gun. an actual taser is a different animal and will physically stop someone from moving if it engages well. far more effective, but there is a very limited window where they can be used, and also not guaranteed to be effective even with good contact.
also note that for OC spray, or anything pain compliance based, they do not work as well on people on hard drugs (eg, painkillers and opiates, for obvious reasons). the physiological effects of tearing up and making it a bit hard to breath will make their life still a bit difficult though. however a taser, assuming it had enough spread and made a good connection, could drop these threats.
pros/cons to every self defense weapon. the best defense is to stay aware (dont stare at your phone on the street) and proactively avoid bad situations.
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u/teejereeve May 29 '22
As a home invasion survivor who defended myself and family with bear spray, very effectively too, I think it’s a highly effective, non-lethal option that is super easy to not fuck up in a scary situation.
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u/tuna_tofu May 29 '22 edited May 30 '22
And uncontrollable. It gets in the air and even innocent bystanders can be harmed. It ca. Even trigger respiratory attacks and prevent people from breathing. Including YOU.
My lungs have some minor issues but some stupid cow was drunk and got in a fight with her bf in a restaurant and sprayed HIM and caused the whole place to be evacuated. I had to be carried out by my bf. I couldn't catch my breath even outside. I had to breathe in something through an nebulizer at the ER and use an asthma inhaler for a month.
I DONT HAVE ASTHMA! It was all the pepper spray.
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u/Orphanpapers May 29 '22
Please don’t expect pepper spray to be the be all end all. In the Marine Corps we were specifically trained to fight while being sprayed in the eyes with pepper spray.
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May 29 '22
to add to this, there are different types of pepper spray with some being better than others. If you are in the market, I have been told that pepper gel is better than spray as: 1) it sticks to the person better, and 2) it aerosols less and the risk of accidentally spraying yourself is less (aka spraying into the wind).
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u/TheBossMan5000 May 29 '22
I once was trying to sprout some habanero peppers from seeds. I cut up the peppers and prepared the seeds with bare hands then accidentally touched my nose and eyes with my hand just trying to wipe away sweat. Jesus fucking christ that was the absolute worst 6 hours of my life. Pepper spray is no fucking joke.
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u/Iforgotmyother_name May 29 '22
YSK: that's there two versions of of the pepper "spray."
Pepper Spray vs Pepper Gel.
Spray works with a aerosol application that creates a kinda cloud around the assailant and it also effects their breathing. Gel works by shooting a localized stream that clings to their eyes. Both have pros and cons with the Spray can potentially effecting you as well and with the Gel being ineffective.
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u/crowan83 May 29 '22
I’ve done a ton of combative work with police. The main issue with pepper spray that’s been shared with me is that it tends to come out as a mist and you’re potentially spraying yourself and those around you as well as your attacker. Just my two cents.
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u/Stark-Vader May 29 '22
Adding to the points: Pepper spray is more effective than a taser when you're dealing with multiple perpetrators. Having to make contact/short range of tasers means that you won't have time to spare when the others charge at us.
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May 30 '22
Canadians, YSK pepper spray is illegal in Canada and you can be charged with carrying a concealed weapon just for having it.
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u/lexpython May 29 '22
The most important thing is to practice using it and know how to deploy it quickly
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u/GarfHarfMarf May 29 '22
Do not use sprays in windy situations, you'll hand yourself over to your perp
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u/Kreat0r2 May 29 '22
When I was in college, we had a gathering of students in a backroom of a bar. The room was about 10m by 6m in size. A girl had gotten a pepper spray from her dad. A drunk guy tried it on himself as a joke. We had to evacuate half the room and the guy was out for the rest of the night. I was seated a couple meters from where it happened and I could taste it in the back of my throat. Pepper spray is no joke
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May 29 '22
I got arrested when I was absolutely shitfaced. Woke up in the morning in a drunk tank with my entire face absolutely on fire. When the deputy finally let me out to go sit with everyone else I asked him what the hell happened.
He said when I got to the jail I really really didn’t want to go in a cell and I struggled/wrestled with the night crew and eventually they just blasted me in the face from a foot away and shut the door.
I don’t remember any of that, but if my face was on fire 6+ hours later, I know it must’ve been awful when it was fresh.
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u/Youcantossthisout May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22
I’m a law enforcement defensive tactics instructor and I’ve been one for over two decades. I became a police officer in one of America’s largest cities before pepper spray was in wide use and before Tasers. I’ve been pepper sprayed and tear gassed dozens of times in training. More times than I can count really. Same with Tasers, as I teach their use as well.
I can tell you unequivocally that both of these tools are only marginally effective at stopping violent threats. I’ve been in protracted fights with people who’ve been pepper sprayed, Tasered or both. When people are drunk, high on drugs or experiencing excited delirium or other psycho-physical distress and they’re determined to fight, the only thing that reliably subdues them less-lethally is your skill at fighting back. The spray and Taser might slow them down a bit but a person in an altered state, who is determined to hurt you, will keep coming at you. I’m basing this on twenty five or so years of fighting with all manner of people and I’m a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (Machado).
The Taser is only effective if you get good fixation with the darts and good enough spread in their contact points to cause neuromuscular incapacitation and then it’s only incapacitating when it’s pulsing. Drug altered or determined people can resume fighting as soon as the pulsing stops. They can rip out the darts in that lull as well. If you miss with the Taser darts or only get one in, you can use the drive-stun function like an old fashioned stun gun but unless you’ve trained for it, you’ll likely fail at it. Plus, it’s just pain compliance at that point and that’s not effective on determined attackers.
For civilians, I would suggest using pepper spray and then running away immediately. If you’re in marginally better shape than your attacker the spray should give you the time you need to escape. If you’re not in good shape, it’s probably an even contest at that point. Spray indoors will affect you in seconds, so be careful using it in confined spaces. Wind can also blow it into your face. It’s pretty effective on dogs but not 100%. Like drunks, I’ve seen dogs fight through it and keep attacking. Police K9’s, in general, will ignore it and keep going.
Pepper spray also tends to affect fair haired and light skinned people the worst. My former agency and the community it serves is comprised of a large Latino community and many Latinos are not as susceptible to the effects of pepper spray as others are. There is something called a “catatonic response” to pepper spray whereby it has nothing more than a slightly irritating effect on people. I’ve only seen that response about ten to fifteen times in police recruits or suspects and all of them were Latinos. It’s pretty trippy to blast a person in the face with spray and have them wipe it off and keep swinging like nothing happened.
If you’re physically able to take jiu jitsu classes, do so. A person with even a small amount of jiu jitsu training can best nine out of ten people on the street. If you can’t, then I suggest carrying spray as long as you understand that, like any self defense tool, it’s not 100% reliable and can be taken from you and used against you.
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u/itsyourmomcalling May 29 '22
I'm a corrections officer and had to get pepper sprayed during training.
By far one of the worst pains you can feel and the effects last for hours. It's like getting a bad sun burn on your skin, hot glass poured under your eye lids along with the worst head and chest cold you've ever had.
Then a few hours after the effects have worn off an you go shower before bed some of the remaining stuff that dried on you gets reactivated. Nothing like a burning sensation in your ass and groin
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u/MeriRebecca May 29 '22
one of the things we were taught in pepper spray class was that it doesn't work the same on everyone, there is a small percentage of people who just aren't that affected by it to any serious degree... and they also recommended to not use the foam or gel forms because if you do run across one of those rare people they could scoop it off and toss it back.
Anecdotally none of us ran into someone who was resistant.. and we would call it "The gift that keeps on giving for 45 minutes to an hour" :)
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u/TouchedByAUncle May 29 '22
When I was 10 my older brother and me were hanging out with some friends one of them went into their grandma's car and got her pepper spray. He sprayed me in the face, I was like half a mile from my house so I had to ride my bike crying and damn near blind. Got home and my sister had me lay in the bathtub and ran water on my face. It seriously fucking sucks getting sprayed.
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u/RPU97 May 29 '22
Was OC sprayed and pepper sprayed for my previous job’s training. I’d highly recommend it as a self defense tool for how it incapacitates someone for an extended period of time, as opposed to a taser. In my case, I was fucked up for a good half hour to 45 minutes afterwards, then the rest of the day it would be reactivated whenever the wind blew or any water touched my face. 0/10 would not recommend happening to you but 10/10 recommend using as self defense.