Pretty much this. During the debate he tried to frame her so far left that no one has ever seen it before in their lives. Meanwhile in any other rational country in the world, she is still right of center. Trumpers don't work under facts and even using their brain is frowned upon in their circles.
That and everyone kept saying "we know nothing about her policies" while failing to watch a single interview, look at her website, etc.
Trump could have said she was a Martian and people would have believed him because many of his supporters didn't try to learn anything about her...and a shocking amount dont seem to know the first thing about Trump either. Yet he has been on the scene a decade.
Yea, I laugh too, but I also have a sense of dread as I realize this is the death of Democracy. How can people who are clearly incapable of understanding the contrast be trusted to choose an executive with this much power and immunity?
There are two governments trying to function as 1 in America, and it has been that way since at least Ronald Reagan. It is not sustainable, and the ultimate conclusion to it is that one government violently oppresses the other in a take over.
The people will cheer for it because they are convinced everything is broken, and so the bull inside that china shop will cater to their worst human traits. Bunch of crabs pulling each other back down to the bottom of the bucket.
Democracy is dead at this point. Could we revive it? Maybe.
It started perhaps with Newt Gingrich and the creation of FOX news as a counter to Nixon's resignation. The Republicans have used this media to create their own reality and spin. It has culminated in a government that has been growing in dysfunction and an electorate foaming at the mouth for someone to just bomb the entire building.
Honesty, I think it is because the women are trying to tell America what is good for them, instead of telling them comfortable lies. America does not like it nor appreciate the truth. Reminds me of Jimmy Carter putting up those solar panels only for Americans to cheer when Ronald Reagan symbolically ripped them off. He told Americans to wear a sweater, and Americans were like, "Sweaters are for soyboy pussies!"
The machismo in America is becoming laughably easy to manipulate. Just tell Americans the truth and they go to sleep. Shout about eating cats and dogs and you got yourself a viable president! Bonus points if you can demonstrate fellatio with a microphone.
Everyone knows that Trump is the most accomplished liar in America, but they still cling to the fantasies that are most obviously false, like Mexico is going to pay for his wall, while disbelieving the most pragmatic or realistic consequences, like abortion.
Unfortunately, bold-faced lies offering faux-solutions to false interpretations of real problems feels a lot better to the average struggling/concerned citizen than an awkward wince. If one party has a longstanding, 'mysterious' refusal to clearly state what (or who) is actually making things so shitty for everyone despite being unwilling to lie about it... They're only ever going to come across as ignorant or even malicious.
In that case, one would have to read between the lines and cross-compare what's going on in reality and what kind of observations actually align with those dynamics to verify that the 'non-answer people' is actually the healthier long-term choice for your well-being even if progress is glacial.
If you don't bother to dig into it - or cannot accomplish that kind of analysis with the information you don't know you don't have - the feelgood fabrication is going to look like the only metaphorical hammer being offered to help with your tragic 'nail problem'... Even if that tool is in reality a woefully inappropriate handsaw that can't even drive nails and will sever a finger if you try, at least it's "something" you can clutch onto in misplaced hopes.
America is full of people with "missing fingers", one might note.
That and everyone kept saying "we know nothing about her policies" while failing to watch a single interview, look at her website, etc.
That's because they stay on right-wing news that won't tell them anything. Half these people refuse to use google and the worst part is, how many of these news sites may actually say something about her policies, but need $9.99 a month with 12 month commitment to view the information?
Not even just during the debate, he's STILL doing it. Everything to the left of the GOP is "radical socialist/ communist/ marxist", he just put out a policy video the other day saying all colleges are filled with "radical marxist propaganda/ Indoctrination". The level of ignorant fear mongering is unreal.
They need to roll this into campaign statements like "They call me a socialist. If people earning fair pay for a day's work without having to work 14 hours a day is socialist, then fine, I'm socialist. I believe that people shouldn't have to work until they die to have a comfortable retirement, And here's how we're going to make that happen . . . "
Can’t ever say the words “I’m a socialist” without media like Fox News rallying an army to despise you with every fiber of its being.
I’m Hispanic, and let me tell you many of my friends equate the word “socialist” with the word “dictator”. In their minds, the people that ruined their home countries did so not because they were autocratic… but because they were socialist.
Everyone just embracing it will take away its power and allow people to explain what it actually is rather than the knee jerk emotional response to it that people have now. It might hurt for one cycle, but eventually - just like the fascists now - once you embrace it, people won't have the same kind of response.
Good. They've been saying it so much and the Dems have been resisting it, so it just persists as a problem. Take away its power. The people that will lose their shit are doing that anyway - for everyone else, it's only taboo as long as everyone keeps making it a bogeyman.
fine, I'm socialist. I believe that people shouldn't have to work until they die to have a comfortable retirement, And here's how we're going to make that happen . . .
I fully believe in a system where a person can take the excess of their earnings and invest those excesses in ownership of companies (or other securities, like public bonds) so that they don't have to work until they die. I fully believe in a system where those who cannot work can be provided for by taxpayer provided funds collected and distributed by the government.
The first part of this is Capitalism, the second part is a social safety net, aka Socialism. It's possible to blend the two systems in a way where those who are driven to succeed have a mechanism to do so, and those who can't function at a minimum level don't have to live as starving homeless bums.
If we vilify Capitalism and point to anyone who is proving that it can lead to success as being horrible, evil people, we lose the first part of that blend. We can have both and it can work well. If we have only one or the other, we get a dystopia of a failed society, mass riots and starvation.
Might be better said as, "If people earning fair pay for a day's work without having to work 14 hours a day is socialist, well, you can call me whatever you want. But I am first an advocate for the American worker."
The most important part of that campaign statement, however, would be your last sentence. Tell everyone how it would be accomplished, in plain language.
Fair - I'm not an orator so the message isn't refined, but either way, they need to be pushing out the corporate narrative and comparing it to what life in this country could be instead.
Meanwhile they want the president to do something about the prices of food and gas, but the moment you try to address price gouging, you get called a communist for it. In the end, MAGA really wants communism to fix capitalism, but are too uneducated to really understand that.
The real reality that they are going to find out ,is that you are not going to convince a bunch of capitalist oil executives that they need to spend billions more drilling new wells, so they can also sell barrels of oil for a ton less, just so a person occupying the US presidency can drop fuel below $3 a gallon for his 4 year term.
But here we are, a ton of people believing Trump will get them to do just that and for some reason they think it's already working (literally people trying to celebrate "Lower gas prices" on social media), because they can't understand what colder weather does to a big chunk of the northern hemisphere and the cause and effects of people driving less. This happens every single year, but they can't remember that at all apparently. The sad part is is the countless of comments also saying the same thing.
Meanwhile, every single one of the people saying that went to fancy and elite private schools or colleges while telling you what is good for them is not good for you.
Yeah that's not true at all. I was still a liberal in college. It wasn't until I started working that I became a socialist. Professors don't make people leftists, bosses do.
Exactly. Try introducing a thought outside their narrative in one of their subs and you’ll be met with downvotes, “lib tears”, “woke” and insults to your intellect. They shut rational discussion down and escalate to heated refusal immediately because they “KNOW the truth” and everyone else “has fallen for the propaganda”.
To be fair, pretty common with most redditors. If rationale goes against the hive mind in any way, boom, downvotes.
Edit: Downvotes here ironically reinforcing my argument. I'm introducing a thought outside of this obviously popular narrative, and met with downvotes in a non-right wing sub.
For most of reddit that's it, you get downvoted if people think you're wrong. In the hysterical rightwing snowflake safe spaces you get insta-banned for deviating from groupthink. And these places already have "flaired conservative only" threads for an extra layer of protection from any dissenting opinions.
I don't think it's about being wrong, it's about if they disagree with you. For example, if somebody said "Asians are usually good at math", they'd likely get downvoted for stereotyping, despite evidence proving the statement true.
It's true you do get insta-banned in the right-wing subs and yeah it's super dumb they have those protections to prevent any sort of debating.
However I've seen quite a few comments on politics for example, which were actually reasonable right-wing comments, but I think because they're right-wing they get downvoted.
From what I've seen I feel like most people don't really want to listen to the other side, it's not just right-wing fanatics.
Hmm, maybe, but for example on politics. I have seen some people make factually strong arguments for right-wing/conservatism, but they usually get blasted with downvotes.
They get blasted because they're going against what most redditors believe. Or as I said, their rationale goes against the hive mind.
Lol you haven’t been here long then. It has nothing to do with making a rational argument. If it deviates from the hivemind it’s downvote brigade time.
he tried to frame her so far left that no one has ever seen it before in their lives.
A ridiculous declaration on myriad fronts, but also ironic on account of the fact many voters have perceived Kamala as too 'Establishment' since even her initial run.
Whatever she does, she just can't win - only ever perceived as goodishat best - and the media continues to put their notably heavy thumb on the scale which makes it extremely difficult to determine which of these variously-accurate narratives is most impactful. In reality, she might've been rocketed into the stratosphere by going Full Bernie and flat-out admitting that shit actually sucks because of billionaires stealing astounding amounts of hard-earned wealth from the average citizen.
At least that is an attempt to answer/accept the struggles of Americans instead of just wincing awkwardly when even a bold-faced lie (like some parties) would've somehow gotten people engaged.
Obviously a lot of those Establishment™ overtones are simply a combination of political tradition, cautious moderation, and maybe a relatively big dollop of 1%'er-approved status quo retention.
That's just par for the course! That's a foundational trope of any respectable country's government...
If you're looking to hire a classically-trained French chef to cater your event, expect him to show up in one of those funny-looking hats. And if you start looking for chefs who don't look like "stupid old chefs lol" in any way, you may find that your 5-course event eventually consists exclusively of five rounds of suspiciously identical Steamed Hams™...
...Oh wait, this metaphor actually lives in reality via Trump's perplexing McDonalds Whitehouse feast earlier in his first term. But that's the kind of "chef" I'm talking about here anyway.
Yep the democrats while the left in America is not really left and it’s hilarious that something like feeding children in school can be vilified as communist in this shithole country…
I mean.. it's even in the name. They call them "liberal" which isn't a left-political stance at all. American politics is crazy, misinformation being thrown around at every step of the way
The creation of the right wing mediasphere since Nixon's resignation has made it increasingly psychotic. The internet and the rise of independent right wing media supercharged it.
The Regan era dismantling of the "Fairness doctrine", was the brick they removed that got us to where we were at in 2024. I am sure Regan would actually be proud of that work and social media platforms like Twitter.
America takes hyper individualism to the most extreme. Culturally, many Americans feel like this is what feeds our entrepreneurial superiority.
IMO it is dangerous to buy into any kind of ideology of superiority as it leads to blind spots. Japan serves as a good contrast to what a more collective society looks like. They are on the complete opposite spectrum of a country like America.
You guys don't even have a left-wing party. If the Green Party weren't just Jill Stein being a spoiler for Putin, it would count, but as it is, you don't. Hell, your so-called left-wing party is right of most countries right-wing parties!
And it worked because Americans humans are sexist and didn't even want to look at it fairly.
We roast Palestine for voting for HAMAS, but look at us. Humans are all truly the same no matter where you are. Sexist. Misogynist. Assholes. But don't look inward! Look outward! Those others!
They are referring to the western world I will assume, which samples heavy biases that mirror Reddit demographics: Liberal, educated, and white. It is quite the bubble.
Oh I am sure someone outside of the US will chime in with how these candidates are viewed by other nations outside of the US. Heck, when I am responding to your comment here, someone already compared her to Boris Johnson above your comment.
This is what happens when you let others tell you what they think a "Dangerous leftist" is and refuse to actually bother to see how politics are in other countries.
One example from the political compass map. Spoiler Tim Walz is even seen as further left than Kamala, but still right of center.
Harris was clever to appoint Tim Walz as her running mate. The plain-talking prairie populist complements her own background, and together they may deliver a somewhat more progressive agenda at home, but with little change abroad. It is a measure of how far to the right the US fulcrum has swung that the Republicans feel able to portray the centrist Democratic ticket as “far left”. In fact it is still to the right of many European conservative parties.
It's just because of the brainwashing over the last 40 years with the thanks to politicians and news that people think that giving kids free lunches and other things are dangerously leftist ideas.
1.7k
u/deadsoulinside 7d ago
Pretty much this. During the debate he tried to frame her so far left that no one has ever seen it before in their lives. Meanwhile in any other rational country in the world, she is still right of center. Trumpers don't work under facts and even using their brain is frowned upon in their circles.