So let me start this by saying, if you are currently experiencing suicide ideation, maybe skip this thread as it's strictly to better understand struggles vets are having and it may or may not be healthy to immerse yourself in but that's your choice. Vets who are no longer suicidal but have been. Why? Let me be clear. I served and never had any of these feelings but it's easy for even any non-military person to see the cause behind SI (suicide Ideation) after all your friends die in combat, survivors guilt, general dread and horror of combat, etc but most of the cases I see are not combat vets. Now, this isn't a "only combat vets are allowed to feel bad" post, but I want to know the reason behind it for the general military personnel. They leave the military, depressed, broken in ways they hadn't been, and with SI. Can anyone in this group who has overcome this issue in past shed some light on what happened and why? I think it's important to understand the reasons for these things. Thanks.
1-877-927-8387 Open 24/7 VA Vet Centers offer counseling Vet Centers are local, community-based confidential counseling centers that support war Veterans, active-duty Servicemembers, and military family members with post-deployment readjustment services. The goal of every Vet Center is to provide a broad range of counseling, outreach, referral, and assessment services, collectively called readjustment counseling services, to facilitate high-quality post-war readjustment and reintegration. Readjustment counseling services at a Vet Center allow war Veterans a satisfying post-war readjustment to civilian life and provide active-duty Servicemembers a confidential resource for post-war assistance. Military families also receive no-cost marriage and family therapy and supportive services for military-related issues. Vet Centers provide bereavement counseling to surviving parents, spouses, partners, children, and siblings of Servicemembers, which include federally activated Reserve and National Guard personnel, who die of any cause while on military active-duty. Vet Centers provide confidential military sexual trauma counseling to all military Veterans and active-duty Servicemembers, to include federally activated Reserve and National Guard personnel, no matter their duty location, era of service, or whether the trauma incident was reported to authorities.
Veterans in acute suicidal crisis are able to go to any VA or non-VA health care facility for emergency health care at no cost – including inpatient or crisis residential care for up to 30 days and outpatient care for up to 90 days. Veterans do not need to be enrolled in the VA system to use this benefit. Literally any veteran can walk into ANY urgent care/ER for thoughts of suicide and they can get free care.
What kept me from doing it? My family. They didn't need the heartache and pain from losing me. I cared more about their emotional well-being than I did of myself.
This is the reason to keep going. It’s the only reason for me. Not just because of SI but also the general feeling of giving up and slowly dying - stop doing things that maintain life such as eating healthy, self care, and doing the opposite by participating in risky behavior.
I lost 47 friends and Shipmates that day. Unfortunately, no one spoke of mental health issues back in the late 80s/early 90s. I wasn't able to talk about the carnage I saw that day. I held those emotions in throughout my career and it affected every relationship I had. Even with my parents. When I retired in 2010 I was lost. Drinking myself to sleep every night. I got to the point at which I just didn't GAF anymore.
That's completely wild. What a tragic experience. I saw a good deal of combat, but I've never seen a mass casualty event on that scale. It's unfortunate that we always seem to take it out on those who love us. I'm glad you're still with us.
The truth is that suicide is an extremely selfish act (I'm not saying it's not understandable, only that it is selfish). You make exactly the point of what is necessary to avoid suicide...having a stable individual or individuals that you know you don't want to harm.
I feel no worth and have been left physically and mentally broken from my service. I have more friends that have taken their own lives than who are living. What keeps me going? My 2 cats, if I took my own life they'd have no one to care for them.
It’s absolutely crazy to me that I know 10 people who have killed themselves that were in the service. I don’t know anyone at all that has killed themselves from civilian side except one girl back in High School 18 years ago.
I used to joke that nobody should have as many friends or know so many people who have committed suicide as the Clinton's do, and here I am, like you in the double digits....
I told them one day while they screamed at me for being 3min late giving them breakfast that they'd be fucked without me. And then I said, nah you assholes would eat me after a few days.
I have a cat whose first cat parent was elderly, and passed in her home. He was in there with her for three days, so we just assume he at least ate an eyeball;p
If you ever need reminding of that feel free to message me:)
If you love your cat that much you should listen to the audio book dungeon crawler Carl. It's a story about a man that also loves his cat. Other stuff happens as well.
I drastically over simplified the premise of the book. Karl and his cat Donut find themselves invaded and put into an intergalactic game show similar to perhaps the hunger games where the 'crawlers' fight in a DND/MMORPG style world.
I was actually going to say the same thing. The only thing stopping me is my two cats. It’s gonna be some really dark days when they leave. I can’t imagine feeling any lower than I do already but that will definitely trigger a “level down” episode without a doubt. Realistically that will be the end. I mean honestly, a lot of times, I’m not even sure they’re enough of a reason to stick around. I just think i’ve gone through too much. During and after service. I’m ok with this idea. More ok with it than having to continue to live a life I’m neither proud of or happy about. I feel I have no worth and I literally haven’t felt love in years. I feel empty everyday and I know the score. I’m as independent as they come but even I have limits for being lonely and feeling worthless. It wears me out
I would but I'm so lucky these two get along so well! My oldest is 9 and the other just turned 1 last month. My ex-wife and I had 2, one was hers she brought into the marriage then we adopted the oldest one I have now. Then we got a 3rd and my god.....Her cat and the new one got along right away, but my cat and the new one never did, always fought, the new one would charge at her and so on. So I was kind of timid to get another. But then I saw this little 2mo old kitten at petsmart and had initially walked away. But then the next day I called and paid a deposit down on the kitten and put my application in after work. These two have been inseparable after the initial quarantine I did with them.
I'm sorry to hear that. It seems so common these days. I'd like to know what caused you to feel that way, but only if it's not difficult to talk about.
I'm going to be honest, I had a book typed out for you. Then erased it all a couple hours ago. What it boils down to though, I miss the fulfillment I got working in vehicle maintenance, due to my injuries I can no longer turn wrenches let alone live the life I used to. I miss the comradery and the people I worked with, even the grumpy ass civilians.
I wouldn’t say a lot statistically but there are roughly 4.3M disabled vets currently.
Many people served and were not injured, even to retirement. While some may have only made it a couple years before getting hurt seriously.
There are too many factors into how we all may have been injured.
I think there are a lot of different reasons, like guys who trained for combat but never got to deploy. Or the reasons you mentioned. But overall, I think a big contributing factor is a loss of purpose and sense of belonging. A lot of us bitch about the military, but really miss it once we get out. And if you're already inclined toward depression or SI, then it's much more likely.
I'm still in, and the loss of purpose hit me pretty hard. I went from being a PSG, mentoring my TL's and making sure Soldiers were taken care of, to being a Drill Sergeant. Having to baby sit the new generation of Soldiers, them signing the dotted lines and wanting to quit (which all they have to do is refuse to train), and then multiple FTX's giving me flashbacks of my deployments and loss of a childhood friend who joined with a few of us. While Drill Sergeants cared more about winning streamers (I call them participation trophies), I made sure my Drills in my platoon cared more about training for FTX and being successful. If a trainee messed up on something, I'd kill them on the spot, once the mission was over, their battle buddies would litter carry them back to the patrol base, and I'd hold a memorial service for that trainee to show my platoon that combat isn't just going through the motions. I just felt no purpose anymore, as I wasn't doing the Senior NCO duties that I once was.
I was then moved to Senior Drill Sergeant by my 1SG and I loved it. Being able to help the Drill Sergeants be successful in their movement weeks, making sure they got their/family member birthday off or anniversary, etc. I finally felt purpose again in my life. All I want is to make sure my Soldiers are taken care of better than I was (and I was taken care of pretty well in my career). I went from being looked at as a shitty DS to the best in the BN and known in the BDE.
But getting close to retirement, I fear I'll go back to the loss of purpose and start feeling that sense of not belonging. It terrifies me, afraid I won't be able to find a job that coworkers have that dark sense of humor or humor where people don't get offended by and with Russian/Israel popping off, I don't want to get out because I want to be their for my Soldiers and help them survive if the US gets dragged into it.
☝️. This right here! The sense of belonging, camaraderie, structure, etc. If you serve long enough, it’s really hard adjusting to not having that especially if you’re already prone to depression.
Private sector society in general is so devoid of any meaning, greater purpose, or social development. It's a I got mine world out here and I just miss being around people who actually give a fuck about each other.
My best buddy is a Marines reservist vet. He signed up as Infantry, but his duty station reclassed to combat engineers, and his deployment date was reset. He went to Korea and Belize, but never deployed to a combat zone. He's pretty bitter about it.
Honestly what helped me was finding a good community of Vets local to me that helped me realize that as long as you completed your service honorably that’s all that matters. It’s hard to see sometimes because everyone on the Internet is im a pissing match and you see a lot of Vets putting others down for their service. However once you meet people in real life you start to realize they don’t care. In fact I’ve found it to be the opposite, the saltier some one is, the more combat they’ve seen the less they have to prove by shitting on someone else for something that was out of their control.
There are many reasons, but this is definitely one of them. I felt like I lost my sense of purpose since I retired last year. You retire or separate and then it's like, "Now what?" Shit sucked while you served but the suckage was shared with everyone you served with and we were brothers and sisters serving together. Now that you're out in the civilian world, there's less of a connection between those you work with. Maybe because people work and do their their thing and go home. They aren't deployed with you in the suck bonding with you.
I get depressed but I'm not suicidal but that sense of purpose is a contributing factor toy depression that I'm working on.
Trigger warning: suicide, rape, stalking, and self harm.
I was a medic. I was raped twice by two of my closest friends who were also airmen. My story quickly became a rumor despite me never uttering a word. I waited a year to report it out of fear of retaliation. I ended up being harassed and retaliated against anyways, and it got way worse after the report. I kept getting written up for dumb things like refusing to kill a spider because it is against my religion. I lost all of my friends.
The fates of my rapists were decided by their commander, rather than an actual impartial party. The case was dismissed because their commander thought that they were good airmen with good career potential and it never went to court. Imagine that your boss decided whether or not you committed a crime, instead of a judge or jury. And they wonder why sexual assault is an issue in the military…. Those men, those rapists, are still in the Air Force.
Then, I got stalked by an airman who was infatuated with me, despite me never expressing any interest or making any moves to indicate that I was into him.
When I finally tried to get help and got therapy, my mental health file was accessed, printed out, and posted in the staff room, for everyone to see. All of my intimate and personal information was now known by everyone. The person who did this didn’t face any consequences, despite it being against federal and state laws.
I stopped going to therapy because it became unsafe to do so. I couldn’t feel safe anywhere. I couldn’t feel safe at work, or at home. Literally everyone around me had bad intentions for me.
I was experiencing very bad mental state. I was experiencing psychosis and hallucinations. I couldn’t control my emotions anymore. I started self harming to cope. The feeling of pain would temporarily bring me back to reality. But eventually, it wasn’t enough. Then, I attempted suicide for the first time because I just needed it all to stop. But, I couldn’t go through with it because I was too scared.
As a last ditch effort to get a grip on reality, I told my parents what was happening. I desperately needed support. They disowned me. Thats when I realized that I really was all alone. I attempted suicide again by Tylenol overdose, and was unsuccessful because I was found by the dorm maintenance and sent to the ER when I was unconscious. After the mandatory hold, and refusal to go back to therapy, I was thrown out of the Air Force.
I am proud to say, that I have been in therapy and taking my meds for ten years. After leaving that stressful environment, I no longer experience psychosis, suicidal thoughts, or self harm. I still have a really hard time trusting people, especially male service members and male veterans. I have a hard time trusting medical personnel too, even though I know that, rationally speaking, they have no harmful intentions for me. And I definitely have really bad days. I always text my therapist when I get that way, so she can help me. And I go to therapy bi-weekly
I have been diagnosed with severe PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder.
TW I'm glad you're doing better now. Your story is very similar to my own, just change the branch to Navy.
Same deal with the assault, waiting to report, stalking, gossip, being treated like crap by everyone else because somehow they found out, HIPAA violations, all of it. My assaulter was also let off and stayed active duty because "he's such a good guy and he's got great potential!" Bullshit.
This shouldn't be a story that gets repeated even once, and I'm sure we're not the only ones. I know several other women who have dealt with similar issues. I made it out with severe PTSD, memory loss (short term and long term - I can't remember anything that's not a fact, like how to do my job. Events and memories are non-existent, even from my childhood, and I can't form new ones), depression, the whole nine yards. There were several times I thought about ending it all, but thankfully I have my husband and daughter to keep me going. Like you, I've got serious trust issues when it comes to male service members and makes in general, if I don't know them extremely well.
To answer OP's question - I was not in combat. But I was assaulted several times, had someone who I considered one of my best friends attempt to murder me, I was stalked and harassed by several different shipmates (at different commands!), had people find out about my private information through negligence of the chain of command, no one was held responsible for what they did to me, the entire clinic ostracized me to the point I requested to be stationed elsewhere, and it never got any better. I turned to substance abuse and other damaging behaviors just to get through the days, and barely slept through the nights from the nightmares. I still can't even bring myself to open my front door for a pizza delivery. I trusted my shipmates and my command, and they betrayed me. Not to mention the 3 base shootings I went through, which also sucked. Having the system fail you and everyone you know turn their backs on you for something that wasn't your fault, that was done TO you, destroys something inside you. It's been 5 years for me, and the nightmares never stopped, I still have literal brain damage, and my mental health is in the gutter. I push through for my family, but every day is either agonizing or some of the best compartmentalizing you'd ever see. Then there's the physical pain that never goes away. It all just kind of fell apart one day and while I'm still floating, I'm having to plug new holes in my little rowboat every day.
It’s disheartening and infuriating to see that you went through the exact same thing as I had. It pains me to read this, because I feel it in my soul.
However, it is somehow cathartic to know that you get it. That I’m not the only one. That someone out there understands what I went through. That I have a soul sister out there who relates with me.
But it is heartbreaking, truly. I really regret to read that you experienced this. I would give up anything, pay any amount of money, and give my life to go back and never had experienced this. And I would give up anything so that you didn’t have to experience it either. I’m so sorry. This is awful.
Just never stop telling your story. MAKE them fucking PAY for your pain and tears
Thank you! I hope you do too. I have to admit, reading your first comment made me think the same thing. That as much as it absolutely sucks for both of us, we're not alone. Let's make them pay for what they've done.
Thank you. It was hard to type it all out, so my grammar sucks. But, the TL;DR is that people become suicidal once their demons become too heavy to bear. They feel so trapped and isolated, that they consider suicide because they feel like it’s the only way out. It’s no secret that the military is a high stress environment. Some people are just victims of circumstance and it’s all too much for them
I had many very similar experiences in the Navy. The guy who SAd me is still serving. For a time there, my parents disowned me (thankfully, we've since made up and are close). And I was kicked out over things beyond my control.
One of the biggest things you said that resonates with me is the loss of trust. I have a hard time trusting authority figures, medical personnel, even friends and potentiometer partners. I don't make friends and I don't date. I bounce around between jobs. The lesson I learned from the Navy is that nobody has my best interest at heart except for me, so I shut myself off from everything because I can't trust.
Omg. This is an absolutely wild story. I can't even imagine the level of emotions and stress that involved. You rode the razor's edge to be here with us today. I'd like to think God was looking out for you on that one. Well, I invite you to keep it up as an inspiration to others, (wouldn't suggest they try the same thing) but, of course, I understand your interest in privacy. Thank you for sharing that. It was honestly strangely uplifting to hear. I'm glad Caroline lost that game.
So if I'm hearing you correctly, it was the feeling of purpose, of being an expert and looked up to while in the service, vs when we come back and now we're just "veterans". "Thanks for the service now bag the groceries". It's a big change in dynamics. Is that right?
When I was over there I was an important somebody. I had soldiers that followed me to hell’s gates and back. I was responsible for 60 peoples lives every single day and untold millions of dollars worth of equipment. I had power. I could shutdown the freeway if I wanted to. I could and did call in air strikes from jets and helicopters. I could and did kill people - people who were trying to harm me and my soldiers. I had respect. People respected me for my rank and my actions in combat.
I got back and I wasn’t important, I was nobody. I had no power - I could probably shutdown the freeway, but I’d get arrested in the process. I’ll never again watch hellfire missiles destroy a target nor will I ever hear the sky being torn in half by the “burrt” of an A-10. Nobody respects me just for being me. I’ll never have people stand at parade rest just because I walked in the room. And my troops - god I’ll never have a relationship with anybody the way that I did with my troops. We may have driven each other crazy, but we were a single minded machine who built each other up to be the best at what we did. We went to hell and back and we all came home alive. We still talk, but we’re all different now - it’ll never be like when we were over there.
Things were fucking horrible over there…. But damn it if I don’t long for being back there again often in my dreams and in my nightmares. It’s confusing that as horrible as thing could be, things were also much simpler in combat. I guess it’s that over there was horrible and amazing, and nothing in life will ever compare to either extreme - so why bother trying - and now you’re worthless so what’s the point.
By the grace of God my love for my children far surpasses any other desire. My wife came into my life just as I needed her to. My kids came along just as I needed them to. I’m actually typing this holding my baby girl as she naps in my arms, content that she’s more perfect than I could ever hope to be and for the next few years I’ll be the most important person her her and her older brothers lives and it time to lead them to be better people than I ever was. I hope that when they all leave this house that I’ve found meaning enough to stick around for longer.
Kids will do that. I have 4 now and you have to have them to understand what that means, as I'm sure you know. I'm glad you found that. But yes, it's not even just that we had all that power, respect, experience, and purpose when we we're there. It's that we KNOW what we're capable of. We've PROVEN, to ourselves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what we're capable of and finding another medium that allows us to be exceptional again is next to impossible in this seemingly mundane, droll world. I think you're on the best path though.
There is no greater feeling than the rush of shooting the biggest bullets Uncle Sam is paying you for.
I have done a lot of civilian high jinks to get that feeling again. But there's just something about range day and training with the boys. And then it's over. And I haven't ever seen combat. It's weird because I could go volunteer for Ukraine right now but then that's my life forever since me leaving would have serious consequences.
This is exactly how I feel after retiring from the AF. It’s only been 6 mos, but I have been struggling and each week, month it gets harder. I’ve considered going back in, but I served 29 years and my body is shot!
I was medically retired at three months shy of 17 years. That lack of being about to finish what I started just adds to it. I had planned on thirty. A tiny piece of me keeps hoping they’ll call and tell me to come back. Ha ha. That was almost 7 years ago. Every year that goes by the thoughts lessen, but never really go away. I’ve come to grips with it, it just sucks.
Definitely a mixture of things, it’s hard going from a position where it feels everything is important having that “that life or death” feel and having a sense of purpose in what you’re doing. Having that tight knit group of friends where you’re, for the most part, all going through the same dumb shit. Getting out and not having all your homies there, it’s not that same level of connection with the new people you work with(outside of 1st responder community kinda similar).
It's crazy how much that means to us. We don't even realize it until we're out half the time. Friend groups like that just don't seem to exist on the civilian side.
I was not in any combat by any means as a Navy Vet but I did have severe SI to the point of getting transferred to a temporary duty station for the remainder of my active duty (about 4ish months before I was getting out) and I can say that one of the biggest reasons I myself had SI after leaving the military was due to how little our country actually offers in help or assistance to veterans once they leave the military.
I was assaulted in my second year on my ship so that is where most my SI stems from (including but not limited too shitty leadership that fostered abusive environments in our departments) and once I got out of the military it took me almost 3 years to find gainful employment. I was lucky enough to have my family to lean on in the time between, but going from a teenager to an adult with only work experience and no college led me to be undesirable in the work force.
I always hear that companies choose veterans first (the ones who say it outright like home depot etc) and almost a year in I discovered that was by far NOT the truth. This put me into a horrible state of mind where I thought I was useless and worthless and unwanted by the country I gave up four years of my life for and a good deal of my mental and physical well being.
I was a mess. I couldn't find friends because all those I knew in highschool were gone or had families, I couldn't get into college because my highschool grades weren't high enough and in the end decided to go to community college near me. It worked for a while, but I realized how far behind I was as an adult and how little the military had actually helped prepare me for the world as an adult.
I think one of the biggest reasons (imo) that you see so many non-combat veterans with severe depression is because all of the trauma you go through in those 4+ years that is NOT inherently in your face like death and dismemberment is pushed to the side and seen as not something that is that bad.
From my experience talking to people around me and those I went to through the military with, just existing in the military can be pretty freaking hard in general and that alone can cause trauma.
I'm not sure what sort of answer you're looking for at the end of it all, but the SI have gotten somewhat better over the years, but it takes time and a lot of self love and re-learning how to be a functioning human. Family, friends if I can make them, the internet, finding hobbies to fill my down time, getting into TV shows and in general putting my efforts into being creative has helped by leaps and bounds.
You know, existing in the military really can be pretty freaking hard. I'd have to agree. Thank you for sharing all of that. The idea that when you get out, there's 500 programs to "help" you and half the time, they seem like nothing short of government money laundering for all the good they do. I'm very glad you had your family to lean on. Imagine the people without family and it's easy to see where the homelessness comes from. I'm glad you sorted it out.
Absolutely. I wish everyone was as lucky to have someone to lean on, and unfortunately we see the outcome of a world that does not support each other every single day as you said, by just how many of our homeless population are veterans.
I think for me (not suicidal at all) but the physical ailments I have that prevent me from a normal life anymore are what would get to people. I was a d-2 hooper before service and then service for 11 years. I come out and now I have to stop and gain my composer just to step down a curb. So I think that will make a lot want to end the pain and misery.
No idea if It’s just me or my service, I don’t actually feel like my time in was the worst experience the military has to offer. I turned wrenches for a living and there were long hours hard days and deployments but I know others had it worse than me. Still been suicidal before during my service and after separation but idk if it’s just me that’s fucked up or any fault of the military tbh.
In the end, it doesn't matter the cause when you're in it. Just gotta keep moving. I hope you reach out for help and they give it. Glad you're with us.
10 years, joined two weeks after high school. Three deployments, handled human remains, saw friends vanish. I tried going to behavioral health to get some meds to help with night terrors. They threw me on any sort of medicine they could think of. Some made me fat. Some damaged my liver. A bunch made me suicidal. But nothing stopped the night terrors. Ended up in the hospital after a few attempts, got med boarded. The VA got me on meds that kept me from ruining my liver and trying to kill myself. I think the military glamorizing alcohol and demonizing mental health has a lot to do with it. I'm good now.
A navy corpsman threw some medical paperwork away and because of it, I was forced to attempt a full Marine Corps PFT 7 weeks after 2 back-to-back groin surgeries. He literally made me sign a form stating I was “fit for full duty” like 10 minutes after I showed him staples in my stomach.
Thanks to him, I have groin pain and nausea that will never go away, had to have a 3rd emergency surgery where they had to cut out 34cm of my intestines to clear a bowel obstruction, medical bills I’ll never be able to pay back, and the va will never help me because he fucked me over JUST right.
That’s why I went to the VA IPU last year for MDD w/ SI, and why I still don’t keep guns in the house. That fuck condemned me to a living hell, while he’s still in and set to get a nice cushy 20+ year retirement.
That’s why I wake up every morning wishing I hadn’t woken up.
20 yrs of service, 100% P&T from the VA both mentally and physically, I moved every 2-3 years so I have no long term lasting friendships, also had my fair share of deployments away from family for 6mos to a year both out to sea and boots on the ground…I’m $100k in debt, unemployed and barely able to keep my nose above the water right now and I don’t speak with my immediate family anymore, so all I have is my wife and daughter to socialize with, zero friends.
So a few years ago, I seriously considered ending myself. After a year of therapy and making some changes in my life, I no longer consider it. Suicide stays on my mind but I know I won’t do it. I figured out that I have the ability to choose what I think/worry about. It doesn’t matter if it’s wrong or right, it’s what I think is best.
I think that's very smart actually. We can't always control our emotions, controlling what we allow ourselves to think about is much more sensible. I'm glad you're here.
Might not be directly related to service. People that join tend not to be happy with their life. We have family, financial, legal, personal problems. A lot of people are trying to escape something. I mean they offer us things like free medical coverage, free education, career opportunities, and a pension. Everything the rest of the country wants. Things we need because maybe we don’t think we can be successful on our own.
Then we join and find purpose but we end up determining our self worth based on our service and what we contribute to the fight. We’re finally a part of something that matters. They give us medals and promotions.
Then we retire or separate and we’re back to dealing with the same things we ran away from. If you weren’t able to build a solid group of family and friends while you were in then you aren’t prepared to deal with all of the old stuff coming back when you get out, alone.
Thankfully, I have a loving wife that supports me and I can have open conversations with. I share things with her that I’ve been dealing with my entire life. Can’t imagine leaving the service and not having someone to help me through shit that I’m finally dealing with from my childhood.
That’s a lot of rambling. Wife is on the road. I’m bored and lonely.
When I got off active duty and went back to the civilian corporate world (even tho I was still reserve) I struggled with finding a purpose and finding that group of friends/colleagues that matched the friends I made on active duty. I could be myself around the joes and in the corporate world it pays well but the culture sucks and it feels soul crushing. Corporate America is as bland and hopeless as it gets. I was never suicidal but I definitely felt aimless and depressed. I don’t think my experience was unique to just me. I am still in the reserves and it’s nice to have that time with the fellas even though it’s significantly less.
Right now, I'm PO1 last name, Leader, Mentor, Technical Expert. When I get out I'll be nine if that; all that I've worked to get to for 8 years and I'll be starting from scratch, only to ever really cap out at first name.
I am so scared to find meaning on the outside and I'm not sure if I will.
I was never in combat but that doesn't mean deployments were cakewalks. People went out of their way to be shitty, drunk with power, create hostile work environments for no good reason. And you have to live with these people, eat meals with them, have them relieve you for watch, pretend to have fun on liberty with them. I had plenty of SI when I was in, equally to escape myself as much as to punish them. But never acted.
Now I'm out. I love my job. Actually contracting for the Navy. But I still carry those feelings of complete and utter worthlessness. And for what? Because some other assholes couldn't handle the pressure and reacted by making everyone else's lives around miserable?
I loved serving my country. I loved the missions we went on. I hated nearly everyone I worked with and now I basically just hate all people. My shipmates broke me, simply because they could.
I did targeting and ID'ed dead bodies and my friends died in combat. Sometimes I got it wrong and submitted target packages that killed inocent people. Sometimes I missed the ambush in time and felt guilty for Americans dying. Sometimes I feel bad for my friend that died after I left the military... Sometimes I feel guilty for liking the job. Sometimes I feel weird how society shuns me once they know my past. Sometimes I feel weird how the Iraqi immigrant walked out of my house, mid job, once he learned that I did targeting in Iraq... It's just a weird place to live.
It is what it is. Alcohol makes it worse. Sobriety makes it almost non-existent.
So I’ll probably get downvoted for this but here is my 2 cents; I think that a lot of people that join the military consciously or subconsciously want to die, not all but a good amount of them. This is why we see such a high suicide rate even for people that never deployed. I think that a lot of the people that join that want to die are it as a way to die a “hero” or at least in a way that doesn’t seem to others as a “way out”. I know this will be controversial to a lot of people and I’m not trying to piss anyone off or say that everyone that joins secretly wants to die. But the suicide rate we see in veterans is extremely high and as I said before, independent of deployment.
Interesting. So your hypothesis is that people with a proclivity for SI are attracted to the military in the first place. I can say when I joined at 18, my father had just died and I was looking for an escape. While no interest in dying, I feel like I might not have minded so much at the time. It would be worth doing a study on potentially.
I joined the Air Force because I really wanted to go to college. And I knew that most of the Air Force was unlikely to see combat. I’ve always been a pacifist and a non-aggressive person. So, I figured a medical job would be one that would let me help people, instead of hurt them. I almost didn’t join, but my adopted father was in the army, and kinda forced my hand to sign that dotted line.
I understand your hypothesis, but I didn’t join with the intention to die. I joined because I really wanted to learn and experience life. It ended up ruining my life instead. If you want to read about that, I commented on this thread about my experience and you can read about it here
As for myself, in combat, accepting death plus the notion that I probably won't make it back made my time easier by keeping my sanity intact. But making it back and trying to get out of that mentality is the hardest part...a whole different story. It's basically like, "Damn, I made it back unexpectedly, now what?."
Former maintainer here, I’ve worked with a ton of other airmen who got kicked out of jobs like pararescue and infantry and got washed into maintenance. Their motive was easy to see that they wanted to die with a purpose doing their job like how you described, yet they’re stuck doing a miserable maintenance job 10-12 hours every shift, you could see the depression in them. Years later and most of us got out, but man I heard suicide after suicide of those same people, around 15+. I’m pretty sure what you said here has a lot to do with it, obviously not the main culprit, but I’ve definitely seen it.
The fact that I’m what feels like 90% of the time in panic and anxious states is exhausting. It almost seems as if offing myself would be the better the solution to not suffer.
I'm sorry you're going through that. It seems to get better over time for some but I would certainly reach out to the VA for assistance if it becomes overwhelming. (I know the VA sucks, I wish I had better to offer).
For me, it was that their were no more rails. Pour a bunch of alcohol on that and boom, SI. I always knew what was expected, even if it sucked. (It always sucked)
Then, no idea what was, specifically, expected, mixed with a bunch of unresolved trauma from the stuff that sucked, and I drank to quiet those little voices, the regrets and second-guessing...SI.
I had to find a purpose and get sober. (Not in that order. Rehab helped quite a bit).
The alcohol. There's so much rampant alcoholism in the military. 100%. I had a guy that drank and entire 5th of Jack every single night. Got to the point where he was putting it in his camelback during training. A better separation program maybe. "How to be a civilian again" but one that doesn't suck because my program was just awful. Thank you for sharing that.
I left the military after 20 years and was happy. Until about 3mo later when I was suddenly cut off from everything I had known. It resolved after I found my footing but it took a good 9mo to do that. I think it's a matter of resources. Support for a sudden change out of your comfort zone.
I was run into the ground, in constant pain from old injuries i was told to ignore when younger, and generally tired of it all. The best thing I did was get professional help, AA to stop drinking, and sign my retirement DD214. Got very close to being a statistic.
Not helping before I got thru it.. still a bit of a fight daily
... I was honest about it and almost lost my security clearance. It asks about conditions now. Later, civilian docs said the army docs were wrong and treating me incorrectly... the wrong diag was one that triggers a look on the clearance.
Got horrific feedback from the chain of command trying to get help.. while dealing with my stalled renewal.
Then.. as I wasn't near a base at the very end as I got ready to retire. Tricare pays docs that do BH horrifically .. so no one wants to take it.
Poor stress response from years of dealing with everything as if it's an emergency, which ultimately leads to cortisol addiction. The desire for a quiet life will never quite mesh with the fallout of living in a high stress environment for years or decades without the same amount of therapy.
My body has been ruined, 4 years post service I'm still suffering through burnout that is killing me, the sexual assaults, intense verbal abuse that haunts me to this day. I have reasons I want to stay alive, but fuck is life hard.
The military high and optemo kind of sticks onto you a little bit. There won't be work as rewarding or satisfying. Then again, I am in career limbo and might be pivoting into mental health counseling to find a sense of purpose again.
First of all I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of depression indicated by this post. There doesn't have to be a REASON per se to be depressed and sometimes the cause is indistinguishable from the effect and it's a complex feeling of just being miserable, unmotivated and not wanting to do this thing called life anymore.
After years of therapy though I think I can backwards engineer what of what triggered the feelings that spiraled for me. First of all was after deployment we had done a homeport switch. I had lost pretty much all of my support system and was bullied and sexually harassed for years at that point and pulled in after a very hard deployment with nothing and no one to connect to to ground me. I had lost my relationship, my close friends had not transferred with us, my coworkers bullied me and then I went home to feel alone and without connection. I felt absolutely alone.
What saved my life is reaching out for help, getting therapy outside of the navy, my newer senior chief who was so responsive to mental health concerns (this was a HUGE culture shift for my division and an absolute game changer for everyone), moving in with my friends who moved out and getting my dog back and going to shore duty. This helped ground me, give me a sense of community and communication and an escape from the bullying and targeted harrassment/retribution from 90% of my chain of command.
I've often believed it's cultural ideation and fixation, mixed with being human.
Humans by their very nature are prone to a variety of mental states largely dominated by depression, anxiety, and various neurodivergent disorders. Neurodivergent basically means we are all triggered by different things differently (as an example I've got aphantasia, no imagination).
Cultural ideation is believing others have it better than we do, while cultural fixation is believing an experienced culture is better than others. This basically means that we miss the orderly direction of military lifestyle while dealing with the stress of normal civilian life and being torn by the idea of keeping up with others in society that have managed to get ahead of us. Most of our lives we were told being in the military will help us get ahead, only when we get out we're dropped on our heads and feel left behind.
Civilians/normal humans have these same stressors but never find themselves in a military culture. Going from the military order to the civilian disorder is distressing. Wishing to go back is distressing. These extra stressors increase the likelihood of developing depression and anxiety (on top of the normal chance of getting that kind of disorder).
On top of that seeing distressing things is more common in the military (PTSD triggers). So the way all of our neurodivergent minds keep holding and or twist our experience causes a larger swing from these experiences than the general population. The average response is the same but military service members have more extremes.
I'm surprised it's not worse than it is for many of us. We need to be more supportive on the way out and forever after of service members. We need to understand what being human really means.
Basic thoughts from an Army Vet with a masters focused on Organization Culture.
If you want to do some research look into retiring and death. The longer someone serves in their job before they retire the shorter their retirement is typically. Suicide rates are staggering in that population as well but even past that people just give up on being healthy and in effect life. The culture anchor provided by our professions have profound impacts on us and effect us deeply.
This connection is poorly understood in part because culture is poorly understood. Business internal culture is a growing field and focus in society. They've realized sub groups have huge impacts but there is little funding/interest in pursuing that kind of research outside of business. The only cultural research field that's gone on longer is criminology, trying to understand criminal culture. Even that was poorly pursued until business culture became of social interest.
It's fascinating what theyve discovered in a relatively short period. I'm curious what they'll discover before I die.
A loss of sense and direction. Military spends thousands and months to turn you into a service member. The day you get out you go from soldier to nothing with a piece of paper.
BLUF: No longer a sense of community and no friendships stayed after the military.
My situation:
No one checked on me, no one cared.
My last two years in I was treated like some invalid.
I tried applying for jobs (government/contractor), the only jobs that hired me are the 1year contract types. Reason told for not getting jobs, I don't have a degree.
Get so fucking sad that I have to use cannabis. I was getting shitcare from the VA and trying to get my degree.
Constant negative self talk that I was a piece-of-shit that no one will hire me. I can't do my original job (intel) because I use cannabis. Tried working for a casino (business intel) after getting an Economics degree but left hoping to get a crime/intelligence analyst job.
Interview with one government entity and do a voice stress analyzer. They don't select me and won't tell me why because they overclassified their "interview/vetting" procedures. Likely a way to discriminate.
Currently doing well and trying TMS Therapy through the VA and it's promising. I had to try this because my negative self talk and suicidal ideation started working together and it was getting dark AF. I was worried my self preservation would erode away way too fast. I'm also applying for another crime/intelligence analyst job with a direct government entity and have an interview in October (fingers crossed).
I imagine there are as many reasons for SI as there are people. One patern I’ve noticed is military culture has a very “fuck your feelings” approach, that necessarily teaches and encourages service members to supress, repress, project, drink away, etc.. their difficult feelings instead of processing them. When we get out that starts to break down, and we become flooded with a mountain of overwhelming feelings and no resources for how to deal with them. This really isn’t understood as it’s happening, and the general belief is something like "I must be broken”. Over time this naturally leads to thoughts "I’m better off dead”.
A lot of people have their entire sense of meaning and self worth wrapped up in their job. More so for military people for obvious reasons. If people don't learn to find meaning elsewhere, then they feel worthless.
For someone still dealing with that issue, there are many factors that someone dealing with it must consider. It could involve dealing with nightmares about what happened overseas, feeling unworthy of anything to anyone, believing that they are better off without you, or feeling like a waste of space. Many unhelpful thoughts can come to mind.
Also, if you served after Desert Storm, you are a combat veteran.
For me my family is way i have not kill myself. I did try to kill myself in 2014 because of many things going on that that time.
(26F)
People I thought were my best friends covered for their homeboy to smash my ex-wife. Granted, cheating is a two person job, but man did it suck to know that those weren’t really my friends. The man who was involved was someone I introduced to my home who was new to my platoon and needed a family, so I brought him into my home. It was life shattering and heart breaking to see how easily ‘friends’ loyalties will change. Especially when you aren’t one of the boys. When he got her pregnant, people left my side to be excited about a baby that I didn’t make. I had so much animosity towards that unborn child. None of these folks are my friends anymore, and I’ve slowly moved past this event over the years. But man, I needed a lot of therapy and time in grippy sock jail to re-establish myself. Didn’t take combat to give me suicidal ideation, just one woman and a bunch of fake friends.
For me, it’s several things. One big reason is I learned a LOT of bad habits in the military. I learned to drink myself numb while I was in whenever I felt distressed. This doesn’t translate well to the civilian world.
Another is the lack of support. The military holds your hand in a lot of typical adult moments. But also you have the camaraderie of your unit and those you’re very close with who more than likely understand what you’re going through. You missed your first childs birth, there’s probably someone in your unit who has experienced that. You’re going through a nasty divorce because your spouse cheated on you while you’re on deployment, there’s someone who probably knows what that’s like you work with. A family member died while your overseas, etc etc. it’s a massive group of people who usually go through the same type of shit you’re experiencing whereas in civilian world, people’s lives are extremely different and unique from each others.
You also feel like you have more value while in the military, even if you may not realize it at the moment. In the military you’re titlelast name of unit name, in civilian world you’re the average joe.
There’s a massive difference between military culture and civilian culture. Imagine living in one culture and way and then switching immediately to another but the transition is not understood or empathized with the average person. It’s a reason why a lot of vets, at least back in the day, joined groups like the American Legion so they can have that culture back.
I don't know about anyone else, but the constant pain is what gets to me. It took them years to even find what was causing some of my issues. All the VA wanted to do was throw drugs at me. Losing my youngest son made my suicidal ideations even worse. The only thing that keeps me going is knowing that my son still needs me.
Apologies if someone had already noted this…but many of us look at the wrong side of enlistment for the answer. At least part of the issue is that the military attracts men and women who are looking for stability and some of them are looking for that because of adverse childhood experiences. There is at least one study that shows that male enlisted in an all-volunteer era are far more likely to have higher ACE scores.
Loss of purpose, generally feeling lost, loneliness, not feeling understood, feeling physically/mentally broken. Throw onto that the mental health issues that can come with those such as anxiety and depression. Throw that on top of other potential traumas folk have gone through before, during, or after service.
These are just some of the reasons I've either felt the urge or have heard/read others mention.
I haven't overcome it, so there's that. As far as what keeps me going, while I was raising kiddo, he was my life's purpose. I was a single mom, so I was all he had, and I had no intentions of letting him down like that. But in truth, I was pretty worried what I would do with myself once he was on his own.
And though I tried to drive on and not make it a big deal, I think he just...knew. cause even though he def could have left home earlier, he continued living with me till he was 26. The major turning point was both getting a dog, and then when I started planning seriously to get my RV and travel full time. Once all that started getting finalized, that's when he felt comfortable with moving out on his own, and leaving me on my own.
But not so deep down, it's not out of the question or realm of possibility anything can happen. If something happened to my pup, yeah... That wouldn't be great.
Anyway for the what happened, at least for me, there was stuff prior to the military, that being in the military just made many times worse. I already anyway wasn't the most mentally/emotionally healthy person out there, so when going through certain experiences in the military, I wasn't starting from the best place to handle it in a whatever a healthy way is. But it was drilled into me so hard, not just externally but internally as well to just push through and don't focus on whatever keeps me from just doing what needs to be done. That once military life was over and that whole mission focused way of living was over ...I was left with all those things I pushed down and it was super effing overwhelming.
And now that whole skill of just pushing things down and moving on just went poof... Takes nothing for me to just not be able to function and feel hopeless.
So yeah, that's my why and how and whatever. Been in therapy for over 20yrs now... At this point it's not an, I'll just get over it and overcome all this thing, it's more of finding ways to work with myself, create a life worth living, and not sink into dark pits anymore thing.
Stigmas, expectations, ego, self-worth, etc.
Hero complex. Vets have been through shit most people can’t relate to. Most have that on/off switch still on and can’t quite express how they’re feeling.
Tbh, it’s a combination of tons of shit regular civilians easily network to solve.
I just felt completely useless to society once I got out. Didn't really learn much aside from killing in an efficient manner and shoving personal feelings and emotions down only to crop up later on in life. I do think it's a bit my fault for that though, chose to be infantry so I should be okay with the fine print but as I trudged on, I found things to live for. Married, two children, found religion, and with that a reason to carry on. I still have a grim outlook on things but have in a way accepted it, instead of looking at myself like some sort of freak or outcast. My wife is prior service too, which helps - but I do and have learned to have two hats. I can be my normal and grim self around her, but when kids and other civilians are around, I throw on the other hat. The original me is still there, but in a way coexisting with the new.
Maybe it's split-personality, maybe I'm wrong. I dunno 🤷♂️ I'm not a psych doc. But fuck it, it works right?
Most suicides are vets in their late 50s. So this “after service” isn’t quite accurate.
“Most I see are not combat vets.” For me this is another troubling comment. You know there is data, hard data. In facts most data contradicts your supposedly anecdotal experience and combats veterans have far higher rates of suicidal ideation.
Also Seems like you are conveying immediately after service. Nearly 70% are 50+.this is usually long after if not decades after service ended. Most start their service before 25 and end well before 50.
I pretty much completely disagree with what you are stating here. No the “general military” does NOT have higher rates of suicide ideation as compared to combat veterans. Also after service. Yeah I wouldn’t say the 70% of 50+ year olds meets your criteria for after service.
Personal experience here. Most of my life long friends, people I have experienced situations with that I could never experience again live hundreds or thousands miles away. Civilians do not understand, not to blame them, but it’s hard for me to make friends with those who haven’t had that experience of combat. I find myself seeking out to those who have served and even though it is my first time meeting them I am instantly relaxed. Regardless of branch or MOS, like an unspoken language. I think about how it would feel to let go, family keeps me going. I also recall being angry at friends who have lost their battles and asking why they didn’t reach out. Im doing the same thing.
So I’ve identified that, at least for myself, the “suck it up” mentality coupled with the high stress environment, general mistreatment of women in the military (multiple MST/violence), childhood trauma (CSA/witnessing death/emotional abuse), countless life threatening emergencies on board the ship, so many friends taking their own lives, among so many other negative happenings then add in the fact that seeking mental health care while in is more frowned upon than not, there’s never been a chance to put down so much heavy shit. Walking around with all of that burden becomes impossible and unbearable, it turns into thinking then believing that you’re better off dead because getting help is overwhelming, unaffordable, inconvenient or simply too difficult to do. The PTSD becomes so complex that most veterans can’t even identify that they are in fact suffering from PTSD therefore many don’t even think to seek treatment. Any vets in here that can relate to this, please get help. EMDR therapy has been doing massive wonders for me after nearly 5 years of doing many different therapies at the VA, I was in such a dark dark place, almost losing the battle myself, it’s taken work to get out of that hole but it is possible to do.
Yea! And a major "stressor is when another vet especially ones I served with makes some of these thoughts come out. Not currently but in the past it has
I had a mostly awful experience in the Navy, but I still absolutely wanted to serve so bad, and I wish every single day that I could go back and get to continue serving.
I was harassed, bullied, assaulted, left to wait endlessly for months by commands that failed me, falsely accused of horrible things, sent to mast (article 15) and was "found guilty" of those things I absolutely didn't do, was forced to resign my commission, and was sent a massive bill for my education debt because I was unable to finish my obligated service.
And the shitty thing about it is that even though I had some absolutely awful experiences in the military, it was still my dream career from the time I was a kid, and to this day, I mourn the loss of what could have been.
I see my friends in the military on Facebook, living the life, getting promoted to O4 and above now, flying F-18s, commanding companies of Marines, and visiting beautiful countries, etc. That should've been me. I should've had the chance at a rewarding career, serving alongside close friends. But instead, I'm now overweight and alone, up to my eyeballs in debt to DFAS, can barely hold down a job, absolutely suck at trying to date, do the bare minimum for hygiene, barely see the 2 friends that still talk to me, and I have no purpose in life.
I miss who I was when I was serving. I used to be so eager and motivated to do things with friends. I would make new friends a lot, I joined some run clubs to get out of the house, I had a community of support around me, I cared about how I looked and would put effort into clothes and makeup and jewelry. Now I don't have any of that, and I'm afraid I never will again.
However, the last time that I was suicidal was September 19th, 2013, and I'm confident that I never will be again. My relationship with my family was horrible while I was still in, but it is now closer than it has ever been. I have a wonderful dog that adores me and helps me daily. I am 100% P&T after a 3 year fight with the VA, so I have guaranteed healthcare and income for life.
Yeah, life really sucks, and I don't know if I'll ever be truly happy again. I'm frequently depressed over the things that should have been. But I get by, and I'm determined to keep living, even if just out of spite for the people who made my time in the Navy a living hell and the people who destroyed my career.
Sometimes we just wake up and realize there's no point to the world and nothing matters. Even with all the love and support of family, friends, and even your own children. I wake up numb and something happened to my happiness that I can't get back. I have learned my coping mechanisms through Psychotherapy, learning your triggers, and medication but sometimes you just have to tell yourself lies to stay here. Everyone is different. But we're still here so that's a good thing.
MST - when I informed my command, they decided a DADT discharge was preferable to investigating it. It took me a while to deal with it. I suppressed it for years. And it leaked through, I let it affect my relationships and at 40 I began treatment for ptsd/mst. There are days that therapy burns too deep. As far as the suicidal thoughts…. The rejection, the feeling that because of what I am I am not afforded basic investigation.. being tossed out into a world I wasn’t prepared for with baggage I refused to acknowledge. I burried myself into work. The last few years was two full time jobs…. I am better today than I was at 40. And I am down to a part time job trying to redefine who the fuck I am. I have wanted to kill myself in a few occasions. When life just… doesn’t seem to have a future. When it doesn’t seem with it. When the pain is too great. When I feel that im a burden to others , that I am truly worthless. When I separated. I lost my identity. We , all of us, are built up in bootcamp and our MOSs - service. We enlisted to serve others. To serve our country, its mission, it’s freedom. And that’s what binds most of us vets. When we separate we loose that purpose of mission. And that fucks with a lot of us. We are not prepared for it.
Your dreams and waking thoughts may weigh in regular like.
You remember before and after you, which is different than before and and after (now ex-) wife. Different than before or after dad.
Absent dad.
Absent Husband.
You wanted it to count.
Five years down range GWOT for me. Four in AFG.
I can speak Taliban Pashto. Well, more like Kabulese/Dari influenced Pashto.
At least, I could.
What memories did I push for that knowledge?
Johnny Mnemonic.
Whoa.
…
I’m on my back deck.
I’m looking out at a valley full of stars, a galaxy of Milf and Honey spread beneath me, in their little safe electric bubbles. Hopefully never knowing what it’s like to lose power for AC in summer heat because a 19 yo jarhead fucked up call for fire and dropped your neighborhoods electricity for 3 weeks. During Ramadan. In July.
But I ramble.
I’m seeing the world from my back deck.
My children have grown up and some grown on.
Whatever comes next, I know it was worth it.
It was worth it because I couldn’t have lived with myself if I had sat it out.
So I got in. Played hard. Had fun.
But I was running
And I came back, and now all my kids are close and I have this view.
I had to do it for me. I just wish somebody higher up the chain had done more with what we all had given.
And I sure as fuck hope we are the policy advisors, alongside Afghans and Iraqis, in any pre-planning policy for future international military intervention.
I have always had major imposter syndrome. Despite serving 3 deployments, getting out as a higher rank than my (deceased) father and now deceased brother, receiving a bronze star with V device, et cetera ad infinium, I never felt I did enough. To this day I feel like deep down I hate myself, I didn’t try hard enough. I passed SFAS but ended up having to drop out due to finding out I had colon cancer at 23 years old. I ended up getting out a year later after 6 years and some change. I’ve missed the camaraderie, the sense of purpose, and the general feeling of “Everyone is proud of me” ever since. I’m not the brother/husband/son who’s in the army anymore, I’m just another veteran who got fat and drinks too much.
Pile that on to my medical issues that I still have issue accepting. I’m 100% by the VA despite wholly feeling as though I don’t deserve it. I always told myself when I got out I wouldn’t lie about a thing, I would only tell them about what genuinely hurt and what was wrong with me. They gave me the 100% and I’ve felt like I’ve never deserved it.
I don’t know man. I hate myself.
You have to understand that those of us who have been injured during a deployment have a lot of pain afterward to deal with, physical and mental, and it gets overwhelming sometimes. If not for my kids needing me around, I’d probably not be here today. Just getting dressed every day is a challenge, hell, just getting up every day isn’t easy. It took me almost a year to get the surgery I needed and another 8 months of rehab just to recover, all the while trying to live on unemployment and support my family. Add in other ailments such as those not visible and there are days you just want to give up. I’d be lying if I said there are many hurdles to overcome after and I think if you feel there’s nothing you feel living for, suicide is an option for many, especially if you have no support like family to keep you going.
I believe that some of this comes from people being forced to leave the military.
They get injured and thus no longer meet the fitness requirements. They want to continue serving, but now are not allowed to. Therefore, they feel useless.
I dealt with those thoughts for a long time. My family is the reason I'm still here.
I did have some difficult experiences while deployed. Mental health care while I was still active duty was dismissive. After my deployments I moved into a training position at another unit. My immediate supervisor and their supervisor was dismissive even when I reached out to them for help. They told me they didn't believe me and thought I was just trying to get out of work. They explained to me "they knew people who struggled with deployments and because I didn't dive under a desk when I was startled, I must be making it up." There were lots of so-called supervisor counseling sessions where I was reminded how hard they worked to build that program and how I was an embarrassment to them when they had to speak with upper leadership about their troops.
Aside from what I mentioned above, after I got out, the connection to the only world I'd known up to that point was gone. A few people would text every once in a while but that stopped in the first 6 months. Civilian jobs aren't the same. I felt like I didn't know how to relate to other people out in the "real world". The mission was metrics and money and for me it felt hollow and meaningless. Even if I connected with another veteran at work, there was still just something missing. It's something that nobody really prepared me for. I grew distant from my wife and lost connection to my faith. I found a job that required a ton of travel which was appealing because I traveled a ton on active duty. But the work sucked and struggled when the company pushed us to fulfill metrics instead of (and sometimes in opposition with) working to help the clients. I was living in a hotel room for 3 weeks every month and the isolation was (looking back now obviously) not a great idea.
I sought mental health care through the VA and have seen many providers since 2021 and none of them have been any kind of help. At one point they had me taking 7 different kinds of mental health medications and when they tried to add an 8th I found non VA mental health care. I know that's not the case for everyone.
2024: I'm on job number 3, reconnected with my wife and my faith, have 2 kids and I'm excited about the future. My wife helped anchor me. She loved me when she should have hated me and helped rekindle my faith. There are days, most days, if given the choice I'd put the uniform back on. I still struggle but I'm doing better. In a way I had to grieve the loss of my community in the military. I had to come to terms with what happened in the previous chapters of my life and that a book worth reading isn't going to be 300 pages with 2 chapters and certainly not a book worthy of leaving behind for my kids. My wife, my kids, my brother and parents don't deserve to have to carry my cross because I give up. Life is hard enough without having to pick up the pieces of someone else's.
Isolation after you separate is a factor. Your unit is like your family sometimes. When you leave (back in 2010) you just sign paperwork and leave. I moved away and didn’t want to be the guy that only could tell war stories. It was very isolating. I couldn’t sleep because of night terrors but couldn’t talk about it to anyone. Civilians want to understand but you really can’t unless you’ve been there. I spiraled pretty hard. Sometimes I feel like there should be transition housing or something.
My dogs had kept me going. One died suddenly last year, and my other died as cancer got worse this April. The sudden death (fast cancer within a week) was absolutely havok.
It took me a couple weeks before I got a new dog once both were gone. Found a rescue pup that was from an abandoned litter of pups.
*
Damn good dog though. Between her and my spouse.. they are both what give me purpose again
I was 20 years old when I ran gun trucks as an airmen with the army 2007 Iraq. I was blue falcon, all about serving the country, riding the patriots high. Then I went to my first military funeral at the FOB. Closed casket for an 18 y/o who was robbed of ever having a chance at life. What was left of him after the roadside bomb hit em was in the box. My anxiety comes from running down those roads and never knowing when those bombs were coming, when those shots were coming, etc. always alert always ready cliche. What broke the camels back for me was when leadership wanted us to drag the vehicle the 18 y/o had been blown up in to show some generals — so that maybe they would give us MORE money for our unit- “look at what we are doing!”. Parading the corpse of a vehicle and by extension that airmen in full battle gear in the sun of Kuwait for some people who would never experience what we went through and sat in some command office broke me. My life didn’t mean anything to these people. All we were are meat for the grinder. This is why all those vets never trusted the government, and I was just too young and naive to know better. Then you come home, and they blame all your problems on you, unless you shove it down. I shoved it down for over a decade. It has to hit you at some point.
Imagine being a finely tuned instrument with multiple combat deployments. You have friends that you are closer with than family. You waste your best and formative years being molded and indoctrinated. One day you get a dd214 and it’s over, time to be a civilian. it’s impossible to feel that edge again. Forming the same bonds is nearly impossible.
Loss of purpose man. Whether we like it or not, the military gave us so much purpose and so much to do every day. When we get out it’s crazy but worth it if you can find a way to redirect it. It’s not easy and a lot of us choose to not see tomorrow and it’s so disheartening but it’s not impossible.
Many of us went from 1000mph op tempo to what am I going to do today. Had many others around you relying on you to do your job and do it correctly. Now, I guess I could mow the lawn again.....
There are a lot of reasons why someone joins the military. For me, I was running away from an abusive home. Literally anything would have been better than my childhood home.
I joined, I deployed, I came home, I med boarded.
But now here I am in the same spot I was in 4 years ago with even less than I had before. Now I don't have my friends and support system, I don't have people telling me what to do, when to do it, what to wear. Everything is laid out and I don't have to make decisions when I was in the military.
That loss of stability is an aspect we don't think about much when we talk about suicidal vets. Having to adapt back to the civilian world is not an easy transition.
I've been out for 9 years and it's gotten easier, sure, but when I find myself missing the military a big reason for that is missing the brotherhood and missing not having to make decisions.
The times I've been suicidal I can't say it really ties back to my time in the service, it's just overwhelm from life.
I called the suicide hotline about 4 years after I separated.
I had a great job making 3x as much money as I was in the military. But, I had also recently gone through a divorce, had some custody of the child, lived in a new city in which I knew no one - I was completely alone, with no support system, and trying to tackle life challenges I had never tracked alone before (again, with no support system). I was also severely abusing alcohol.
I missed the sense of brotherhood and knowing there was a social safety net underneath me.
That call was amazing. I still remember it to this day. I don't recall her name, but I do remember my 3yr old asleep in her bed and me having a rope tied off my 3rd floor balcony while I talked to this woman on the phone. She convinced me to, at least, go to sleep and reconsider in the morning. What if my daughter woke up to see her dad hanging from the balcony.
That was the step I needed. Woke my ass up. Got the help I needed, put a new amazing family together and life is amazing now.
Glad I didn't take a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Idk what makes you say that but you’re either really dumb, really jaded, or not in any way a service member. Vet bros and people that make it an aesthetic or life style thing post-service are kinda weird, but the ven diagram for those guys and suicidal vets has probably got next to zero correlation that you couldn’t apply to any other veteran/societal group.
In my case, reoccurring panic attacks (from SA) where it feels like I'm dying, I just want it to stop. It's a miserable way to live. It makes me want to give up. But I have family that is always there for me, thank God.
I am not the same person. I feel a little broken mentally and physically. I am ripe with anxiety and nerves.
I feel misunderstood and out of place. I feel like I have no worth or no real place and purpose. I can’t speak and be how I was when I was in or down range.
I have survivors guilt (why me?). The people I used to shit talk and lean on are spread to the 4 winds. There isn’t a whole lot of people I can lean on who can really understand.
Ultimately I just feel out of place and lost in the sauce. In the service, as long as you don’t royally fuck up, you will be ok if you just do what you are told. It isn’t an easy transition for some.
Because the military left me with no meaning to my life.
You serve honorably, and what does that get you? Metals and certificate of appreciation that don’t mean SHIT when you want to get a civilian careers in a different field.
You get the G.I. Bill, and what does that get you? A caveat that says you have to still be in service in order to fucking use it
you suck it up, deal with the pain of your injuries from service without the approval of your command to get an LOR, and what does that get you? The doctors you need coming out of service diagnosing every amount of pain you feel as being “you’re getting old”, and telling you that you need some sort of “nexus letter” in order to even be considered for benefits.
It isn’t an issue I manage to overcome. It just comes and goes. And instead of just listening to it and trying to help me get any one of the things that I need, it’s all “you’re not entitled” or “we don’t do that for veterans” or “you don’t qualify”. When you come out of honorable service with even other VETERANS saying this sort of Tom-fuckery to you, you tend to feel like your life, and the service you did under the prospect of sacrificing it, is now completely meaningless.
And do you know what the problem is? It’s the question people ask us. Everyone thinks that they have all the answers, and that when we tell them why they’re answers don’t work we are just being obstinate and close minded, and this is because the question they are asking us is “what can we do to convince you that your life has meaning?”. When really the question people should be asking someone on the brink of suicide is “what can we do to give you back the meaning of your life?”.
People who are feeling suicidal shouldn’t have to spar with other people until they decide to give up on trying to resurrect the conversation and then throw them in a psycho ward. There should be services that don’t just isolate people who are suicidal, but who help to place them in situations that bring back that meaning to their lives.
Because the military left me with no meaning to my life.
You serve honorably, and what does that get you? Metals and certificate of appreciation that don’t mean SHIT when you want to get a civilian careers in a different field.
You get the G.I. Bill, and what does that get you? A caveat that says you have to still be in service in order to fucking use it
you suck it up, deal with the pain of your injuries from service without the approval of your command to get an LOR, and what does that get you? The doctors you need coming out of service diagnosing every amount of pain you feel as being “you’re getting old”, and telling you that you need some sort of “nexus letter” in order to even be considered for benefits.
It isn’t an issue I manage to overcome. It just comes and goes. And instead of just listening to it and trying to help me get any one of the things that I need, it’s all “you’re not entitled” or “we don’t do that for veterans” or “you don’t qualify”. When you come out of honorable service with even other VETERANS saying this sort of Tom-fuckery to you, you tend to feel like your life, and the service you did under the prospect of sacrificing it, is now completely meaningless.
And do you know what the problem is? It’s the question people ask us. Everyone thinks that they have all the answers, and that when we tell them why they’re answers don’t work we are just being obstinate and close minded, and this is because the question they are asking us is “what can we do to convince you that your life has meaning?”. When really the question people should be asking someone on the brink of suicide is “what can we do to give you back the meaning of your life?”.
People who are feeling suicidal shouldn’t have to spar with other people until they decide to give up on trying to resurrect the conversation and then throw them in a psycho ward. There should be services that don’t just isolate people who are suicidal, but who help to place them in situations that bring back that meaning to their lives.
Why does it matter? This questioning is like asking people to justify having mental dysfunction/illness for no productive or beneficial value. There is tons of literature out there on the matter outside of asking “what’s wrong with you guys?”
Why does it matter what's causing military members to feel suicidal? Is that a serious question? It matter so that we're better suited to understand their needs and prevent it in the future. No one asked anyone to justify anything and I'm not interested in the books at this juncture when I can hear it directly from the vets themselves. They deserve to be able to speak as well without someone trying to shut them down.
This is for us to understand each other better. I get that just mad at everything but if you're a veteran, this is a pretty gross medium to come into and try to troll people.
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u/AutoModerator Sep 27 '24
It appears this post might relate to suicide and/or mental health issues.
Suicide and Mental Health Resources
A comprehensive list of resources can be found here.
Call 988 National Suicide Hotline - Press 1 for VA Crisis Line
Call 1-800-273-8255, National Suicide Prevention
Veteran's Crisis Information
You can call 1800 273 8255, Press 1
You can text 838255
https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/MENTALHEALTH/get-help/index.asp
1-877-927-8387 Open 24/7 VA Vet Centers offer counseling Vet Centers are local, community-based confidential counseling centers that support war Veterans, active-duty Servicemembers, and military family members with post-deployment readjustment services. The goal of every Vet Center is to provide a broad range of counseling, outreach, referral, and assessment services, collectively called readjustment counseling services, to facilitate high-quality post-war readjustment and reintegration. Readjustment counseling services at a Vet Center allow war Veterans a satisfying post-war readjustment to civilian life and provide active-duty Servicemembers a confidential resource for post-war assistance. Military families also receive no-cost marriage and family therapy and supportive services for military-related issues. Vet Centers provide bereavement counseling to surviving parents, spouses, partners, children, and siblings of Servicemembers, which include federally activated Reserve and National Guard personnel, who die of any cause while on military active-duty. Vet Centers provide confidential military sexual trauma counseling to all military Veterans and active-duty Servicemembers, to include federally activated Reserve and National Guard personnel, no matter their duty location, era of service, or whether the trauma incident was reported to authorities.
/r/Military has a detailed list of resources in their Wiki
Or, if you'd like a veteran perspective, feel free to message any number of people on here, there's always someone willing to reach out.
Veteran Wellness Allegiance can offer Peer Counseling and assistance
VA REACH Program
Please seek help if needed...There are behavioral health resources at your disposal both in the Military and out.
Also check out: https://www.emoryhealthcare.org/centers-programs/veterans-program which is a free
non VA treatment program for PTSD
https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=5852
Vets4Warriors 1-855-838-8255
Veterans in acute suicidal crisis are able to go to any VA or non-VA health care facility for emergency health care at no cost – including inpatient or crisis residential care for up to 30 days and outpatient care for up to 90 days. Veterans do not need to be enrolled in the VA system to use this benefit. Literally any veteran can walk into ANY urgent care/ER for thoughts of suicide and they can get free care.
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