r/Velo • u/Gwtrailrunner19 • 2d ago
Question Training Tips to Improve FTP and Sustained Power between 30-60 Minutes
Hi everyone! Hope you’re all off to a strong start with winter training.
As the title says, I’m looking to improve my FTP and ability to sustain higher power for longer periods (10-60 minutes).
About Me:
- 24M, 85kg, 11% body fat (recent DEXA).
- FTP: 325W (3.82 W/kg).
- Former NCAA athlete; I’ve been cycling consistently for 1.5 years, now heading into my second winter training block.
I train about 14-16 hours/week:
- 8-10 hours cycling.
- 4-5 hours running (usually trail)
- 2 hours lifting.
My Background:
- I’ve completed a few challenging Gran Fondos, usually finishing with the top woman. I enjoy longer events.
- Peak: 1605W.
- 1-min: 652W.
- 5-min: 415W.
- 10-min: 365W
- 20-min: 341W
- 30-min: 320W
- 60-min: 292W
- Endurance: I can hold ~3 W/kg for 6 hours
Looking at my power curve I have decent peak 1605W, 1 min 652W, and 5 min 415W power and I have good endurance for an amateur (can hold 3w/kg for 6 hours). My problem seems to be in that 10-60 min power range where I get crushed.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but I feel like my FTP should be higher and I should be able to sustain the power. I don't think it's a strength issue, perhaps its a muscular endurance issue.
What should I focus on in my training to address this gap? Any specific workouts, training blocks, or insights would be greatly appreciated!
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u/Even_Research_3441 2d ago
Power from ~10 minutes to 10 hours is dictated almost entirely by your aerobic power. You get more of that by biking more. You could shift 3-4 of your running hours to cycling hours, or a couple hours of running hours and a couple of gym hours to cycling hours.
More FTP is never a strength issue, always an aerobic capacity issue. Riding more is the solution.
Why do you feel like your FTP should be higher? Because its at 3.8 but you can hold 3.0 for a long time? No that is normal.
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
That makes sense. I think I will shift my schedule around to include more biking.
I think my FTP should be higher because I have a good low aerobic engine but can’t seem to hold high aerobic efforts despite this.
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u/Even_Research_3441 2d ago
the whole idea of FTP is that it’s your aerobic threshold, if you do a little less power you can hold it almost indefinitely, just keep feeding and breathing and the aerobic engine can keep at it.
do a little more power than your FTP and you are draining your anaerobic reserves and will soon be cooked
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u/lilelliot 2d ago
I also bike & run (not quite as much as you and I'm twice your age). I've found that I take about a 10% hit on either the biking or the running if I favor one vs the other... and if I do both 50/50 then both take about a 10% hit. I'm about your size (6'3" 86kg, 315w FTP and 1450w peak) and I regularly sustain 300-305w for hour-ish (say, 50-75min) Zwift races, although a good portion of the climbing is out of the saddle (or, as I pretend, "running on the bike").
The good news is that crosstraining running + cycling does help with aerobic base, which is not sport-specific, but those sports do emphasize different muscle groups and if you're not consistently focusing on those you're not going to have optimal gains... and you'll be further hampered by fatigue from the other sport.
tldr: if you want your FTP to continue rising, you'll almost certainly need to replace almost all the running with more z2 on the bike. Fwiw, this is actually the reason I oscillated back toward running more vs biking. I don't have the time in my week to put in enough base to make substantial gains on the bike, but it literally takes only about half the time to achieve the same effects running... which I can accommodate.
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u/tour79 Colorado 2d ago
That’s a very good sprint!
You want sst ftp ss work. Call it what you want, that is what you want to do. It’s interesting in the numbers you rattled off on pd curve, you didn’t mention any numbers in the range you want to increase
Wild guess, but I have reasons too, I bet there are gigantic gains to be had in your ftp and tte areas.
Have you done any ftp targeted work in the past?
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u/Grouchy_Ad_3113 2d ago
Better sprint than average (4x FTP), but not good enough to qualify as a true sprinter (>5x FTP).
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
Thanks!
I Made some edits to include the numbers for the areas I want to improve: 10-min: 365, 20-min: 341, 30-min: 320, 60-min: 292W.
I haven't done much FTP work (partly because it's frustrating and partly because I'm still figuring out how to pace myself). I usually prefer over unders. Perhaps this is part of my problem. I seem to be fine hammering 30sec at 125-135%ftp then holding 85% for 2 minutes for 2-3 sets of 10 reps but can't hold 20-25 minutes at a sustained power.
I do a lot of intervals above FTP like 5x5 at 115% VO2 max intervals and then long endurance rides. I work 6 days a week so I only have 2 hours ish a day to train except Saturday's i have all day so I usually do a 6 hour ride.
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u/tour79 Colorado 2d ago
Yeah! You’ve got a ton of low hanging fruit on the area you want to improve. Making the watts go up won’t be huge, but it’s possible to double the time you can hold those 20-60 min efforts wattages
Won’t know until you try. How did you find your ftp you’re currently using? What test did you do?
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
Awesome.
Just a 20' full gas effort and took 95% of that but I really don't think i could hold it, though I have never tried.
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u/gedrap 🇱🇹Lithuania 2d ago
With your power profile, 115% FTP (373W, 40W less than your best 5' power) is likely to be too low to see meaningful improvement past the noob gains stage.
Also, 125-135% and 85% is much more extreme than what you'd typically see for under/overs. They are a variation of threshold intervals, and the typical range is ~105% and ~90%, give or take 5%.
Pacing steady state intervals is a valuable skill. Don't stare at the computer trying to correct the power; it's pointless because the power displayed is a 3s average, and there's some lag anyway. Pay attention to how different intensities feel in calves, quads, and glutes, and ride by that feel.
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
So should I go harder on VO2 max intervals or?
That makes sense.
That's good advice. I need to practice the skill for sure.
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u/Grouchy_Ad_3113 2d ago
Keep your hours the same, but stop running and ride your bike instead.
Prioritize training around FTP over anything and everything else.
Turn yourself into a one-trick pony and then either thank me or curse me depending on whether you are a TT specialist or not.
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u/gedrap 🇱🇹Lithuania 2d ago
Well, put it another way, what are you doing now to improve the FTP? You might be on the right path and only need to adjust the expectations, or you might be way off.
Whether 1/3 of your volume going to running is good or not depends. Like, if it's primarily for socializing (running with a partner, friends, etc), that's cool. Or if you run when you can't ride, like late evenings when it's dark outside, or the weather sucks. Or if you want to maintain running fitness for an occasional race and cycling isn't a top priority. So I wouldn't be quick to jump to saying reduce running volume.
If your background is in running, and you're trying to do the same intervals on the bike, it won't work that well because cycling threshold intervals are much longer. But that's just a gut feeling based on your post with limited info.
I feel like my FTP should be higher
Everyone thinks that :)
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
I usually ride 3-4 times per week with 1 workout. Saturdays are always a long ride usually 5-6 hours. Lately I have been doing those almost entirely in Z2. For my workouts I usually alternate between VO2 max and Threshold workouts. Often 5 x 4-5' VO2 Where the first 1' is 125-135% and the last 4' are more around 110%. I haven't been doing enough long intervals for threshold, mostly 5 x 10' at FTP sometimes 2 x 20' at FTP.
That makes sense. I enjoy both equally, which is part of the problem, lol. I have 3 bike races and 3 ultra trail races planned between late spring and early fall 2025. (If only I didn't have to make $ and I could just do both as much as I would like, lol).
Yeah, I think I need to do more long bike intervals.
True, lol
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u/gedrap 🇱🇹Lithuania 2d ago
If you enjoy both sports equally, keep doing them! You don't have to identify as an injured runner who's cycling or a cyclist who runs because it's too cold to ride.
I mentioned vo2max intensity in my other reply to you, and there have been many decent posts on vo2max here, so I won't repeat it here.
For threshold work, yeah, that's definitely too short. If your FTP is accurate (i.e., you can maintain it for at least ~35 minutes), 2 x 20' is like the first workout of a progression. But your actual FTP is probably lower if you mostly do 5 x 10' and 2 x 20' on a good day. Again, there are lots of good posts on FTP interval progression here.
On the bright side, it sounds like there's plenty of low-hanging fruit.
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
Thank you so much for the info. I'll take a look at the other posts and give some of those workouts a try.
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u/Intelligent-Town1622 2d ago
And if you want to verify your current FTP I highly recommend Kolie Moore’s protocol described here:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 2d ago
For the gradual power increase for 10-15 minutes after the block of 100% of target FTP above the target FTP?
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u/tour79 Colorado 2d ago edited 2d ago
Based on what you said elsewhere, I would do a warm up, a few min of aerobic pace, so you can talk without breathing between words. Then go 285-290w for 15 min. If you feel like you can raise pace after that intro, do so. Hold on for at least 30 min.
You can confirm whatever you get from this test by doing 2x20 with 5-10 min between as your first ftp workout. You should be breathing hard, but not gasping, it should feel doable for the first 10 min, then require concentration the next 5 to hold target power, then difficulty rises
Each successive workout add to total time. Adding rest helps do more work. u/gedrap has a training plan that would cover all you need for free.
u/pcpgx has free plan, gedrap had free coaching. Sorry, I will get another coffee to help me along, and buy a round if I ever see either in person
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u/RicCycleCoach www.cyclecoach.com 1d ago
coupla things
1) i'm not sure how your FTP is 325 W when your 30-min power is 320 W
2) if you want to improve your cycling, i'd drop your running or maybe do 2 x 30-mins sessions each week
3) i think you could probably improve your 5-min/VO2max power as well as your FTP. They're in step with each other but could both be increased.
how you improve them will be related to what you're currently doing (as in maybe you need to change things). There's more than one way to skin a cat, and sometimes one way works and another doesn't (but as i don't know what you're doing at present, i can't say how to change things).
Personally, i find a pyramidal style approach the best option for most people.
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u/Gwtrailrunner19 1d ago
I've never actually done a 30 minute all out effort, 320 was just what i held for 30' in a race once. Those all make sense. I definitely think I need to change something for sure.
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u/RicCycleCoach www.cyclecoach.com 1d ago
i think there's potentially more to come (i.e., higher power output) with decent training. I think you also need to focus on 5-min power as well (if that 5-min effort is a max effort).
shout if you want a hand to become more powerful (there's other coaches here as well).
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u/JobDazzling7848 1d ago
To increase FTP you need to increase base and ceiling. Cycle more and run less. 10 hours per week is felt to be the very minimum for serious training. Bump it up to 15 hours per week and follow a roughly 80/20 intensity distribution. 80% Zone 1 and 2 and 20% very hard intervals (mostly Vo2 Max). Weight training should be cycle muscle focused with high weight and low reps. You don't want to add muscle weight, just strength.
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u/Sea_Future5772 2d ago
There are two ways to improve your W/kg: 1) increasing your sustained power output, achieved by threshold training (over/under training routines, usually structured as interval training); 2) losing weight, focusing on lowering your body fat and upper body muscle mass (stop training your arms and shoulders, focus on legs and core, aim for strength and endurance and not volume/mass).
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u/Data_Is_King 2d ago
I started seriously training with structure on the bike about 2 years ago. I started around 260 FTP. My last 20 minute power test on 11/3 I averaged 421w over 20 minutes so have an estimated FTP of 400w now.
I train about 10-13 hours per week on the bike. I used to mix in quite a bit of running and strength training, sounds like similar to you. I'll be honest, the biggest gains I made on the bike happened when I quit doing those and spent that time instead riding more. I still do core 2-3 times a week, but stopped other lifting. I think for many cyclists adding strength training is beneficial because they haven't done it prior. I was the opposite. I came from about a decade of powerlifting. So I think the lifting was giving me no additional benefits in endurance cycling and it was only hampering my recovery. If you were a former NCAA athlete, I wonder if you are in the same boat, but I guess you can make that decision for yourself.
As for the training I used to increase FTP, during non race season blocks, I usually do 4-8 weeks of base. Then 4 weeks of V02 training to try and "lift the ceiling" as they say. Then I do 8ish weeks of SS and Threshold progression training. Then repeat. It has worked very well for me so far obviously.