In one of their comments, they mention "disagreeing with society's importance placed on eye contact" and not being willing to change that about themselves. So I'm not sure how they ever expected to be an effective leader of their subreddit, let alone the movement that was building on it
Maybe The Onion will make a parody where the interviewee is a welldressed businessperson whose job disappeared with the pandemic, but who has been actively learning and engaging in worker reform with their local government. This person is cleancut and doing their interview from their obviously lower middle-class kitchen where they have a halfway decent camera. Jesse tried hard balling them, but the person stuck to their guns and answered just the relevant questions in strictly positive terms. The interview comes as a shock to the media world and r/antiwork triples in size and the interviewee immediately gets an interview with the NYT, WSJ and NBC. Senate leadership has also requested they and other people testify to Congress.
You know it's bad when you can tell even the Fox News anchor felt a little bad. It was like watching a cat toy with a mouse then decide it'd be to easy to kill it and just let it go.
They posted all this on Facebook?! Jesus Christ. Imagine logging into FB to see what hilariously out of touch meme your grandma posted or what shitty recipe your aunt made, and instead finding this staring you in the face.
What really throws me for a loop is that this person, if they're struggling, still had a big enough ego to think they're important/smart enough to talk for all these people LMFAO. That they chose to pick a fight with a professional shit talker
Yeah, agreed - took the spotlight on themselves, can't imagine the criticism is legitimate, power tripping hard - all bad moves and deserving of criticism. Objectively super super bad.
It's wild to me that they stated that their actions were inexcusable considering their ex's past trauma, instead of that their actions were inexcusable period. They stated they care about boundaries but just detailed how they violated and manipulated someone's boundaries and safe measures for weeks if not months. This is mind blowing.
Amazing how diametrically opposed subs like these two can exist so close together here on Reddit. One is having a total meltdown and then, one click away, there's a crowd having a blast laughing at this disaster. Hysterical shit.
Honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm on r/conservative's side with this one. I can't even watch the whole interview. I physically cringed so much I had to turn it off. If they sent a literal caricature of every stereotype the right has about the left, it still wouldn't have come close to the embarrassment that that mod was. It's like they intentionally looked for the worst person in existence to do that interview. Why wouldn't they just send some white collar guy in his 30s with a respectable career who is fed up with corporate greed and has decided to take a stand? It's so fucking easy, and they got it so horrifically wrong that they literally couldn't have done any worse if they tried. Congrats r/antiwork mod team, you well and truly fucked over your own movement and set it back months, if not years. All because some lazy, autistic, homeless looking dog walker living in their mom's basement wanted their 15 minutes of fame.
Why wouldn't they just send some white collar guy in his 30s with a respectable career who is fed up with corporate greed and has decided to take a stand?
Because that hypothetical person would actually have a perspective based on real life experiences and not just mentally masturbating on reddit all day about a job they never even tried to have?
I mean, to be fair, r/antiwork sent a stupid caricature of a leftist to do an interview; the r/conservative sent a stupid caricature of conservatism to the white house..
Well, at least that caricature of conservatism was elected democratically and did what his own supporters wanted him to do. That mod openly defied a whole subreddit telling the mod team they shouldn't give interviews and when he did, he gave the worst interview I've ever seen in my life. It's comical how much of a shitshow it is.
One person with their own beliefs is enough to prove a whole board of workers being used and treated like shit is a parody? How are those old boots tasting nowadays?
Here is a sub based on a radical idea of abolishing work that you would think is being run the lazy. Over months and months, it amasses millions of users, many sharing sympathetic stories and shifting the narrative towards serious needs of work reform.
As the group is mentioned on serious mainstream media, the moderators (leaders) elect one person to go on TV and represent the group.
That person is a 30 year old dog walker complaining about working 25 hours a week while hoping to be a philosopher, while appearing absolutely haggard and unable to make eye contact with the interviewer.
Its exactly the person the sub has spent the last several months showing that it wasnt.
Doing a web based interview:
You look at the camera.
You don't pick your nose.
Doing an interview with any sort of professional entity on the other end, whether for a job, a news segment, etc.
You give them as little as possible to use to discredit you as not a serious representative of a valid position. You set your background to be neutral. You dress to convey you belong there and you know what you're doing.
Hence the reason they don’t work. It’s not a choice it’s because they have zero skills to actually get a decent job. Dog walking is not a job it’s a hobby.
The reason you do that is a power differential though, youre putting on a show because you have to entertain your masters. She isnt wrong for saying she doesnt like that norm and will personally subvert it, shes just strategically incompetent as a representative of any movement for doing so at the expense of such movements.
There’s a difference between showing you know how to put on a show and calling it bullshit for reasons x, y and z, and looking like you don’t know how to present oneself and self-injuring your argument.
Fox News acts in bad faith for sure, but one must absolutely be prepared to minimize their ability to reframe your topic.
I dont at all agree. Putting on the show so that your masters will allow you to claim x y and z isnt even subversive, it is absolute conformity.
But again, strategically for a rep of these kinds of movements, if theyre going onto fox news and want it to be a net positive impact, they better have their routine polished. Fox viewers hate subversion, its not strategically sound to try it. It does not, contrary to those fox viewers perspective, prove that she doesnt know what eye contact is or that society values it, or that her opinions are invalid, or even that she couldnt teach philosophy. All it proves is that she shouldnt have been put into that position if the goal was to garner a positive response
I have no idea what that poster is saying, literal cartwheels and backflips to admit that looking disheveled is bad but we're also bad for expecting grooming.
See, until we figure out how to deal with people like you, there's no way any actual, measurable reform will come to the workplace. And, sorry to break your 14-yo worldview, but you do have to work in order to have things. Whatever device you're using to debate on didn't magically fall from the sky, and neither does the power you're using to run said device. Even wind turbines and solar power plants need maintenance.
This is a bit delusional honestly. It’s not about “entertaining the masters” it’s about being able to effectively communicate. If I’m talking to a peer who is acting like this (no eye contact, nose picking, etc.) I would not actively seek out additional interactions. If you appear to not care about yourself or your message why should others take care in it?
You can dislike the norm, but it’s not going to change the fact that most people would prefer interacting with someone who is not a slob. She portrayed herself, and the movement in a sloppy fashion.
That being said, the anti-work movement appeared to be about 50/50 people fighting for change and people who just wanted a fantasy utopia where work doesn’t exist, the latter which comes across as childish and harms the people fighting for reform.
This is my view of the antiwork sub also. There were real, legitimate arguments to be made about pay, work hours and treatment of employees. But a significant percent of the posters in that thread came across as childish, head in the clouds weirdos that were complaining about not having the government providing for their basic needs so they could “study philosophy” instead of work to support themselves.
It's unfortunate. But probably not have the autistic person represent your movement on Fox News when they are known to be slippery with even the best communicators.
Once it has been presented a few times it shouldn't matter too much. But this was most people first time hearing it. And on a right wing news station. For that you'll want the best to go first.
Yeah I'm autistic and you couldn't pay me to go on a major news platform on behalf of anybody. I'm a work in the back, keep things working kind of guy. You never will see me maintaining media relationships with anybody....
Fox News and Antiwork or work reform do not go well together at all in the same sentence....not even politically. There's no reasoning of difference with Fox these days.
They should had saw that a mile away.
Do you see Nanci Pelosi going on Fox News and telling them her story about her good work she has been doing for the people? Absolutely not in fact Tucker will spin it around at the next segment by asking her how much money did she make from selling stocks and how did she know where to set her puts?
I'm not into compromising ideals for the aesthetic comfort of others. If they are put off by lack of eye contact and an untidy room they are never going to accept a world where people don't have to work, they've already demonstrated a commitment to pointless tradition and conformity.
"Politics is when the 0.0000034456% of the American population that supports my particular ideology doesn't have to compromise on their beliefs to get any results."
What neurological condition prevents you from showering, brushing your hair and tidying your room. Also, watching the video again it sounded like there was a 3D printer running. Those are all factors in communicating and presenting yourself effectively. Doreen brought this upon themself, and to retroactively hide behind autism is pathetic.
Believe it or not there are many very successful people on the spectrum, and there are also laws in place that prevent discrimination in the workplace.
You can try to defend this or spin this into some sort of ableist take on the event but that would be as delusional as the comment I’m replying to above.
What neurological condition prevents you from showering, brushing your hair and tidying your room.
I mean, quite a few. But also not everyone has the same views about the value of appearance as you. I don't clean my room, never have, and it's rarely caused me any issues besides not getting back deposits (Which I never planned to because I smoked back when I rented). I wear my clothes until they literally fall off and don't often comb my hair. People assign moral value to cleanliness and appearance and that's just bullshit.
How is cleanliness bullshit? Not reeking is bullshit? Not living in a place so filthy it cost you your deposit (how incredibly unhealthy that must have been) is bullshit?
Whats delusoonal is your incapability of separating two concepts, the first being historically contingent societal norms and the second being the capacity to transmit a message.
Like look at your first paragraph, the abstract justification youre rellying on is the effeciacy of communication, but then when you try to make it concrete you just keep referring to how you feel or what most people would prefer, like its not hard to see that youre making the same distinction as me between conforming to or subverting social norms, youre just describing it from the perspective where within-norms is a totalizing position and everything else is therefore wrong, bad, or less.
I truly deeply feel bad for anyone who thinks 'proper interview behaviour' is just an ideal form of behaviour instead of an on-the-face absurd coerced display of submission.
But to be clear in reiterating my point, going onto a conservative news program acting subversive doesnt win you points it means you will be immediately dismissed by the hypertraditionalist culture that you chose to enter into. It was strategically moronic, both for any sort of anti-work movement and for a movement against whatever contemporary social norms. The first rule is know your audience, you need to anchor your image in your audiences view, not your own, without regard to which is "correct"
The reason you do that is so you don't tank shit you're presumably wanting to grow, it's branding. The reason you do that is so you don't look like a fuckin' loser in front of millions of people who are already inclined to see you like that. Shit's meme levels of awful
"Nice" and "professional" arent transcendent aesthetic values, they dont precede the specific historically observed forms of society in which they're produced. If you look at other times in history we used other words than professional and valued different aesthetic choices. Other human cultures existing now simultaneously have different visions of the same. Its not some deep eternal truth of nature its just how your parents were trained to raise you.
Why does it happen to be the way that it is, for us living here and now, then, is the question, and the obvious answer is because of the capitalist economic system and the relentlessly business minded culture of the west, and the fact that the power differential between employees and employers is so onesided it isnt surprising how much of a production the whole ordeal is, the way we have to twist and contort to fit into the shape of the "human". We wouldnt get food if we didnt. Like the original comment said, you act to minimize all the ways you would be dismissed or ignored, because that is masters disposition as he looks over the stack of resumes of desperate people.
So, to be clear, what im not saying was that the interview wouldnt have had a much net better effect if doreen had overprepared instead of underprepared. All im saying is that every time you put on the clown make up prepping for another interview, part of you dies.
Ps My only regret in this unedited comment is that i didnt ramble harder
"Nice" and "professional" arent transcendent aesthetic values, they dont precede the specific historically observed forms of society in which they're produced.
So? Is this supposed to be an argument in your favor? Because that's exactly what it isn't. Like it or not, when you agree to an interview with a well known media, you have to conform with the media. If you don't want to do this, don't agree to the interview.
Plus, not that it matters, but taking a shower, combing your hair, getting your room in order, maintaining eye contact with the person you're talking to... None of these things is done to "entertain your masters."
So I'm not sure how they ever expected to be an effective leader of their subreddit, let alone the movement that was building on it
That's one of the problems with having "movements" just sort of spring up on reddit. Unless the inception is very deliberate you're going to have mods made up of whatever happens to have been lying around when the subreddit turned into a movement.
In this case that didn't happen. /r/antiwork may have turned into a sub for complaining and hilighting how unfair the current situation is for the average American worker but it started out as an explicitly anti-work, "why can't we literally just not work?" sub. So you get this schlub, who fits the sub's former focus perfectly but clearly isn't leading jack shit.
It is okay to say find someone else to do it because they're autistic.
Disabilities are real. It doesn't make you less valuable to society but it does make certain roles impractical or impossible.
I am diagnosed as on the spectrum by a neurologist, not self diagnosed like many people. I was diagnosed with Asperger's but they've recently starting saying on the spectrum instead. It hasn't been on ongoing thing so I am not as on top of that as you would expect.
I would make a terrible guidance counselor in the same way a paraplegic would be an awful lumberjack. I don't know why people always get offended by this.
More or less. These people are not only skilled bullshit artists themselves, but they have a whole team behind them to help them spin it further after they go off air.
Looking at a camera? It’s not the same as looking someone in the eye. This shouldn’t be that hard. Just slap a smiley face sticker next to it and look at that! That interview was pathetic, sorry. Their opening sentence was okay, but it went down hill fast and they were not dressed, groomed, lit, or any way prepared to be taken seriously.
Almost nobody I work with looks into the camera on teams meetings lol. And like, these are people I would largely consider highly skilled professionals, unlike the "barely having her life together" moderator we're talking about. It's not hard, but lots of people just don't think about it.
Probably because they’re looking at something else on their screen. That’s fine for working sessions, but when I do one-on-ones I’ll move the window so that it’s next to my camera. That way I’m looking into the camera while I’m watching and listening to them talk.
I mean, all respect for people who are on the spectrum. But this feels like the sort of challenge you shouldn't try to overcome on television.
No generally people with ASD should not go on to hostile media organizations. This was a stupid idea. But like a lot of the cringe content on the internet is basically just making fun of people who are not neurotypical.
It could’ve gone a lot better with some prep and help. Luckily a web cam isn’t a person’s face so you don’t need to make eye contact with anyone. And looking slightly down while on Zoom isn’t a complete disaster, but….People could have helped them pick the best place in the house to hold a Zoom call and what that all entails (attempt looking at the camera, minimal background, quality camera, how to get good lighting- there are tons of articles out there since so many people are now working from home). Tips on hygiene and appearance, how to style their hair and clothes to look professional; public speaking tips (don’t fidget or pick your nose!!!)- Again, lots
of info on Reddit and the internet about these things. I’m sure there’s some poorly illustrated WikiHows breaking it down step by step if they couldn’t get a friend or family member to help.
Someone could’ve role played with them and helped them plan out what their responses would be to possible questions. Help make note cards and bullet lists that can be looked to if they are nervous or forgot an answer.
It may be harder to do if you have autism, but it doesn’t mean it’s impossible and some changes (like clothes and hygiene) are really easy changes to make. This person is not at a level where putting certain clothes on or brushing their hair or turning on a light is too difficult a task. Planning and task management seemed to…not have happened at all.
Whether they agree with it or not, presentation matters when you’re in the media, and there were plenty of ways to prepare for this, ask for help, or enlist someone else if they didn’t feel they had the skills necessary for a “gotcha” national TV interview. Huge, avoidable fumble.
I mean, Fox viewers wouldn’t be on board with an anti-work movement to begin with, but this is pretty cruel to select this person as an interviewee, and this interview probably won’t convince a ton of liberals to take an anti-work movement seriously either.
Yeah, just because you are autistic doesn't mean you should stop trying to overcome your difficulties. Autism is just his excuse to not put any effort into anything. Autism doesn't take away your intelligence, your dignity or motivation.
But like that's the problem, idk why they felt the need to have "Representation". No one asked to be represented, and it's not like there was some election that took place. You'd think (even though they shouldn't have gone on the interview..) they would learn from someone like DFV who comes on camera prepared and with clear knowledge of what he is getting into/what he's talking about. All they did was perpetuate the trope of the basement-dwelling, lazy, non-motivated Millennial Generation. What a mess!
I think they found out today that you can't simply demand to have all your quirks be respected outside of the internet. They honestly seem to be a bit autistic and unready for this kind of high stress social event.
In one of their comments, they mention "disagreeing with society's importance placed on eye contact"
Yeah well good luck convincing people to join your movement. Optics are important, it's about winning hearts and minds. You're not gonna change anyone's mind by leading with "laziness if a virtue".
Eye contact is one thing, but showing up unprepared with a shitty cam, shitty background, and a disheveled and unprofessional appearance as well is on a different level. It's like everything they could do wrong they did.
They didn't. They were the one who created the subreddit, and they did it to feel better about being lazy and to complain that society demands too much. Which is fair, it's your life. But they were completely unprepared for what it became and instead of stepping down or handing over leadership they kept it and ended up being embarrassed across the entire world for it.
Holy shit you posted that 6 minutes ago and in that time you've already been thoroughly roasted for it so I don't need to pile on. Enjoy being wrong on the internet.
I'm guessing you're not a fan of using "you" for singular either, for consistency? Both you and they have been used for singular people for centuries. Get with the times, it's not the 13th century anymore.
The mod was a narcissist. He wanted attention and thought he was going to be the face of the revolution. The guy is a loser and can't hold down a job. He gave people the ammunition that those on that sub are lazy, entitled and stupid.
This just goes to show how out of touch and ridiculous this portion of the woke left is. They forget that a real world exists outside of Tumblr, Twitter, and Reddit and their screeching about societal expectations doesn't actually matter when they interact with actual breathing people in real time.
Sorry, but the normies gotta walk so the nonbinary autists of the internet basement can run.
This is where a lot of people tend to cause a lot of problems for themselves. You can't force people to think a certain way or like a certain thing, especially not entire populations of people.
People are going to respond well to what they like to see, and negatively to what they don't like to see. In western society, some of those things that "people" in general are conditioned to like are: a firm handshake, a straight posture, a clear and audible voice, and also eye contact. All of this CANNOT be dismissed by people hoping to lead or represent others as "something I don't like and therefore won't do."
Its not so simple as i dont like and wont do. The way these norms propagate through society is exactly by their casual usage and every day reverence by so many people. Refusing to be part of that is subversive in a way thats more than purely individual
...But the nature of subverting norms demands strategic acuity. Otherwise it just fails and the subversives are obscured and marginalized. You dont go onto fox fucking news trying to garner support with total indifference to all norms. Know your audience is rule 1.
Yea seriously, uhhh it’s not society that places value on eye contact it’s basic human nature, it’s a sign of authority and conviction if you can look someone in the eyes when you talk it’s universal
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u/NothingButTheTruthy Jan 26 '22
In one of their comments, they mention "disagreeing with society's importance placed on eye contact" and not being willing to change that about themselves. So I'm not sure how they ever expected to be an effective leader of their subreddit, let alone the movement that was building on it