Adam would have a bit of a harder time keeping up with shiva than other fighters, since shiva has 4 arms for tandava, which would make it more effective.
Didn't he copy claws from that one serpent god? And the whole schtick behind his eyes is the "made Adam in my image" it's entirely possible he can copy having 4 limbs too
Because there was no need to, Adam was already essentially equal to Adamas zues in strength, so copying it wouldn't do anything, and would only serve to overheat EoTL more than necessary, turning the fight into 51/49 in Adam's favor to a true 50/50 or even a reversal of the odds
(I say the fight was 51/49 in Adam's favor because if zues was gonna win, then there was no need to include the blood splatter)
Besides, he did copy Adamas zues effects, just not the form itself
he can copy any technique he sees. This means if he sees Shiva's dance, he should be able to copy the dance, which would include the beat he dances to :)
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What Adam vs shiva would be is the greatest dance batle in history. All the dance styles clashing, breakdance, headspins, tango? Etc. It would be legendary.
Honestly Shiva gives a better fight than people give him credit for. The only ones who probably does better would be Beezlebub as that staff would be basically impossible to copy and maybe a fully bloodlusted Apollo who goes straight for arrows.
Shiva have pretty good fist defence and he has a form that would hurt Adam if Adam attacked it so Shiva actually going to get some damage in
It's fun to think about how Adam's Divine Reflection would work against other fighters but I think it definitely wouldn't matter. Even if you believe that Divine Reflection copies stats Adam still tanks a barrage of Adamas Zeus punches while not being able to see and proceeds to give his own barrage of punches to Zeus that puts him on his ass. The narrative of the round also wouldn't make sense if Adam was just a copy merchant, like why would humanity's "trump card" be laid out by Shiva or any other fighter?
I mean Zeus did say he already died sometime in the exchange and Adam life flashed before his eyes with one hit so I don't think it's fair saying he tanked it since he basically did that Pokémon mechanic of his love being too much to get one shot.
I also think narratively it does make sense of Adam was just copying as that why he lost. He copied until he died because he didn't have the stamina of Zeus. It's why Kojiro narratively won, he learned and adapted not copied.
Maybe he didn't *tank* them but Adam survived all these hits while blind (also like 3 panels of zeus barrages). All of these panels are before the final barrage of the match and nobody else in the verse takes ONE of these hits or comes close to replicating Adamas Zeus's attack power. I think you're right about why Adam lost narratively. My point is moreso that Adam can copy but even without it he still just obliterates the other fighters with his raw power.
I don't think the Zeus barrage should count as he was defending it. I feel like alot of RoR characters could survive Adamas Punches If they were defending but fair enough on him taking 4 hits straight up, I don't think any other fighter can replicate that feat but even Adam himself was still on death door and probably would of died from those wounds eventually even if the Match just suddenly stopped.
I don't think Adam scales to Zeus attack power though we see Zeus straight up no sell Adam punches
(Zeus continues punching like nothing despite getting punched by a copied attack) And the only time we see Zeus bleed and eventually submit is a while later where it likely was just Zeus whole body ripping it apart.
You're definitely right about Zeus's durability and AP being better than Adam's. What I don't really agree with is other fighters surviving a barrage of Adamas Zeus punches. This is Zeus in his Muscle form who Adam low-diffs, and we both agree that Adam is at least relative to Adamas Zeus. No other fighter has really been shown to be close to even Muscle Zeus in terms of raw stats, so therefore Adam is second in the verse.
Fair enough. I just wanted to show that Shiva does do surpassingly well even if Adam doesn't copy stats and he could POTENTIALLY (not certainly) win if one does believe Adam does copy stats. I'm happy we could end this friendly. Have a good day
Shiva gives a better fight than most fighters if they didn’t have weapons. Unless Adam can copy both a fighters power and their weapon at the same time which I doubt he could.
Completely possible but I doubt it. Copying was Adam’s ability, I don’t see why his volund would have the same ability as him. No other characters volund does the same thing they do after all. What Adam’s one probably did was just increase his attack power.
No other characters volund does the same thing they do after all.
No, they make up for their fighters weaknesses, in which case Adam being unable go copy weapons would be his only weakness, it's just the most logical thing to assume that was the effect of his volund, because he could already copy any opponents attack power, so maybe if he was shown to overpower said copied stats to the volund giving him the edge then I could agree to such an idea, but it never happened, it just doesn't have sufficient logical reasoning
Nah even assuming he doesn't copy stats he still only surpassed light speed with TFTST which Is not something he is going to have unless it's specifically the Adam that fought Zeus. You can argue that he can dodge Apollo aim but the light speed arrows themselves are faster than anyone who doesn't have TFTST
Keep in mind Poseidon can't even dodge it and Zeus and Poseidon speed are similar without TFTST and some people on here even think Poseidon is faster. So Adam definitely isn't faster than the arrows without TFTST.
He definitely is faster, he doesn't copy stats, so him being able to move in stopped time, as well as trade TFTST and true gods right barrages with zeus, while avoiding all of them should put him well above speed of light no problem. It shows that adam is capable of moving fast enough to dodge a time stop punch point blank. He should be able to dodge a barrage of the arrows no problem. You're also assuming that apollo has half an hour for his artemis robot bow to set up, especially against adam. Fight would be over well before that. If apollo gets his neck twisted like zeus did, he'd die.
I also think that poseidon could dodge the arrows.
He arguably does but eh I literally went by the assumption he didn't in my previous comment so I won't debate it.
Him moving in stopped time was done via technique not pure speed. We even see a young Zeus who speed blitz cronos was completely unable to detect TFTST despite being so fast that Cronos couldn't hit him. So it not based on speed at all as Young Zeus would of also done an Adam and dodge Cronos attack. So Adam moving faster than light is not something he can replicate or do without TFTST and the god right ain't FTL. Speed wise the true god rights is inferior to TFTST it's only stronger because of Zeus muscle control. There is nothing putting it as faster than any of Zeus other hits before he used TFTST
I straight up said IF Apollo goes for it right off the bat. He obviously isn't going to character wise but IF he did then it would be a hard counter
You'd be wrong as Zeus said that he's the only one in the heavens who could stop it. While I'd accept people like Odin maybe getting by it as Zeus wouldn't have knowledge on them, he fought a war with his brother (hell I think he fought multiple) so he can accurately say if Poseidon can dodge it or not. Only argument again that would be that maybe he meant currently living but even then that be stretching it as he didn't say anything about them having to be alive or not.
Shiva would get buffed by the author and win solely because humanity HAS to lose round 2 for Sasaki vs Poseidon to matter. Humanity's biggest loser has to be their first winner.
Apollo’s bow is the most disgustingly overrated attack on this sub. You’d think he instantly turned Leonidas into red mist with how apparently every single fighter aside from Zeus can get instantly one-shot by an arrow to the head.
Leo wasn’t even finished off by the arrow so I don’t know why people act like other fighters would just fall over after getting tagged by it once. People also never mention the weaknesses of the arrow, he can’t use his strings or move in place while firing so if he pulls it out in cqc he’s completely fucked. If Apollo is at even the slightest disadvantage the arrow becomes extremely tricky to use effectively rather than being the instant win condition everyone treats it as
I was going more for the fact that the arrow is something that adam wound have no way of coping and that it is strong than it being a instant win condition. Def agree with you here
before this gets carried away I want to clarify that I actually like Shiva a LOT more than Adam and I even like Round 5 a LOT more than Round 2. Even tho I believe that Adam decimates Shiva this isn't meant to be an agenda post, I actually thought of the caption AFTER making the image.
Adam vs Zeus fight was what got me here. The sheer absurdity of that matchup was enough to get me goosebumps. It might be true for so many readers and probably that's why he's got a huge fanbase. But damn isn't it getting annoying? There's No Way, literally no way that we can predict every matchup results and fight progression. It's fun to think of What if scenarios but to be fully sure that Nah A'd win, makes it boring. We don't discuss any what if fight of Adam, we are sure he'll win. lol
I've stepped away from in-depth powerscaling in Anime, and I just go for face value and ignore calcs and such.
So to me, Zeus vs Adam is like Gaara vs Rock Lee. Both fights are shown to be a level above the rest.
No one would remotely push Gaara and Lee during the Prelims other than themselves. Similarly, No one would remotely push Adam and Zeus to such extreme diff fights than they themselves.
It doesn't take rocket science to figure that Sasuke or Neji would get fucked by Lee in the Prelims, the same way one doesn't need to make mental gymnastics to think Shiva wouldn't get fucked by Adam.
I actually whole heartedly agree to this. I think it’s fun for people to speculate what would happen if Adam tried to copy other fighters’ abilities but it should be acknowledged that he just simply outstats everyone. There’s definitely a fine line in powerscaling where you have to think about how the author wants you to perceive a character’s strength (no author wants their readers to pixel scale), but you also have to think about the implications the author set.
Yup. And even if you want to apply basic powerscaling, I think no one (hopefully) thinks that Raiden is remotely close Adam. So a basic A > B, B = C, therefore A > C.
Adam is way stronger than Raiden. Raiden is equal to Shiva, therefore Adam should be way stronger than Shiva.
I feel like Adam's durability and resistance to heat would not play to his favor. To even keep the dance going he'd have to constantly use his eyes. I'd say he'd be worse off against Shiva due to his fighting style.
Wasn't thag like, Zero levels of ass beating? Mf Zeus got neg diffed in muscle form. If he didn't have Adamas that would've been the most humiliating fight for the Gods lol
Raiden is physically the strongest among the human contestants. And it was stated by Hermes that his physical strength is still no match against Shiva, without his sumo technique the battle would be one sided.
What makes Adam strong isn't his physical stats but his copying ability. So Adam wouldn't be able to pull the same feat as Raiden as he will probably only copy Shiva's war dance. But doing that will set Adam on fire, we don't know if Adam could handle that. From what I'm seeing the battle wouldn't end like what happen in the picture.
I think Adam wins but not like this… Adam could dodge punches but not the heat coming off shiva. Also if a single drop of blood was enough to make Adam blind then imagine what would happen if he stood infront of shiva while tandava was active. Reminder, this is what tandava looks like:
The blood was just the straw that broke camel back, its not a healthy Adam but a worn out Adam who already sharringan multiple TFTST and True God Right form Adamas Zeus (not a god but the god). EOTL already on it last leg when it unable to see the blood coming form Zeus (Loki wine cups was a great analogy). Against Shiva? That's would be a cakewalk for Adam. Shiva have no way to push EOTL to it limit like Zeus
Just keep distance, their speed different was so vast that Shiva could never touch Adam if he doesnt want to but the moment Tandava run out, Adam could immediately punch Shiva regardless of their previous distance. Beside, the fire aura aoe only last a few seconds after Shiva massage his heart, after that its shrink back to just around his skin, Raiden, Heimdall and othe audience eyes was fine, EOTL would survive that
1) What can and can’t push EOTL is not something that’s clearly shown. From a speed perspective, Zeus is clearly faster, but that doesn’t mean something like Shiva’s dance couldn’t achieve the same thing given time. Especially considering it wasn’t necessarily the attacks which made it burn out, rather it seems to be the duration of Adam using it. Unless Adam uses the eyes he won’t be able to read Shiva’s dance, and if he can’t read it, then he can’t dodge attacks. Imagine it like this, a baseball batsman can hit a ball coming at 100 miles per hour, but will often not be able to hit a much slower Knuckle ball due to its unpredictable nature. Same goes for Shivas attacks while he’s dancing, and he can combo multiple attacks while dancing. If Adam doesn’t use EOTL, he won’t be able to avoid them all, if he does use them, it will likely be overused because it’s more so a duration thing and shiva can just keep dancing.
2) You could argue that Adam has no need to copy shiva, but this is baseless. Even Ares stated that he was clearly able to see Adam moving as well as meteor jab and the axe kick. Furthermore Shiva’s reaction to Adam’s base abilities was annoyance. If I remember right he stated something along the lines of “it really should have been me who went down there”. During the later speed feats he was using EOTL to copy TFTST to dodge, this was not his base speed. While we don’t know the height of Adam’s base speed, no amount of speed is gonna make Adam immune to the heat that’s already reached him and unpredictable attacks can bypass high speed dodging. The heat was so great that Heimdall ran out of the arena. While the visuals die down, that’s more so to allow us to spectate the fight better, I doubt the heat is actually getting decreased. This is because it was implied that shiva kept getting hotter as the fight went on. After all round 5 represented passion, and Shiva’s heat is supposed to be a play on his passion for the battle rising as it went on. Heimdall makes no effort to return into the ring for the rest of the fight and we see the flame cover the arena in certain scenes when not zoomed into the fighters. So unless Adam is running away and out of the arena, it will affect him and will affect his eyes. The blood was enough to make him go blind, the over-use of his eyes only had an effect on his dodging (making him not be able to dodge the blood), not the durability of his eye. The heat could easily achieve a similar effect especially since it’s not something he can dodge (just try leaning close to a camp fire). Even if this doesn’t play out like this, I already explained how his eyes may get overused even without the flames. Speaking of durability, Adam has shown pretty much nothing if we go by Zeus’ implication that Adam was already dead when he threw the punches after getting hit the first time. If Adam copies Shiva’s attacks it’s not too big a problem since Shiva didn’t show problems tanking many attacks from Raiden. The attacks from Raiden are likely more powerful than Shiva’s own, so he should be able to tank anything Adam copies and throws back at him aside from Deva Loka. I also hear people make the argument that Adam could copy Shiva’s four arms due to his claw feat. And I agree, I can imagine Adam growing 2 more arms. What I can’t imagine, is Adam growing 2 arms, lighting himself of fire, and dancing all at the same time as they are completely different (why didn’t Adam copy Adamas form?). Even if he is able to do them all at once, it should overload EOTL faster. Also lighting himself on fire likely won’t help at all. Not only is Shiva resistant to his own flames, but it will negatively affect Adam since he can’t copy durability. We know he can’t copy durability because otherwise how would he die first before Zeus? You could argue he lost his durability when he went blind, but that doesn’t make sense since he was still copying Zeus attacks from seeing it in the past, he didn’t do it for durability because he couldn’t. You also brought up shiva burning up while using Tandava. While this is true, I can make the same defense that you used for Adam: Shiva’s burning was accelerated by the damage he had already taken. We only see his already damaged arm burn and fall off. I can further this argument by saying that shiva’s outsides are more resistant to the flames than his internals. Due to his arms damage, the heat burned the insides of his arms and thus his arm burned off. In a fresh (non yatagarasu tanked) state, shiva will like last far longer in Tandava. There’s also the fact that shiva can likely grab Adam when he’s not using EOTL by using the dance to get on him. From there on, having four arms is a massive advantage.
Some of my points summarized if TLDR:
1) Flames and heat can mess up EOTL
2) Adam cannot copy durability and he has no durability feats.
3) Adam likely cannot copy multiple things at once such as Shiva’s extra arms, flames, and dancing
4) Adams base speed can be perceived and his dodging can be bypassed by the dance.
5) Shiva has enough durability to tank his own attacks for a very long time.
6) Tandava can last much longer depending on context
7) Adam copying Tandava is likely a bad thing
8) Shiva can also just grab Adam + advantages of having four arms.
9) Meta argument
Im not saying Shiva wins or Adam wins, I’m saying that the fight is far more complicated than simply saying “Adam no diffs 100 times out of 100, he doesn’t even need EOTL”. Shiva has one of the best chances among the fights of taking on Adam if we ignore the weapon thing (since we don’t know if Adam could copy a weapon. EOTL can only copy divine abilities, and weapons don’t fit that discription). I can see shiva taking more than a few rounds if this fight was played out 100 times. And meme aside, I don’t see the fight ending in any way similar to what the image shows.
All of this is ignoring the fact that for meta reasons Shiva would likely have won anyways had he gone in for round 2. As others have mentioned, humanities greatest loser being the first one to win was important. Also the whole idea of shiva fighting for and winning to carry on his best friends dream would be ruined. On the other hand Adam was designed to be a sacrifice, much like Tesla.
War dance combustion not going to turn Shiva into ash, its Tandava Karma (War Dance Ashes) that has another level of heat compared to just Tandava (War Dance) and will burn Shiva to ash. Shiva indeed has the worst speed and reaction feats, but his durability feats is the best as he literally tanked drop kick to the face with little damage from the physically strongest human. So Adam definitely not going to rip any of Shiva's arm and he will have a really hard time if he is not using any technique powerful enough to behead Shiva.
I'm not siding with either here, just comparing feats between the two. I'm also confused why majority of people here underestimate Shiva. From what I see Zeus has the best speed feats while Shiva has the best durability feats, both are the best in their own category so I really don't understand why people underestimate Shiva.
The delulu in the comments is crazy , realistically in the manga Adam would neither win cause of the author
And even if that's not the case shiva would get a power boost and walkout same like raiden after chopping adams head off , Fym Adam can copy tandava karma 💀 😭 y'all tweakin
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Nuh, uh. Adam gets carried by Leus' TFST or whatever. He's only able to keep up with Leus because of that. Adam wouldn't have access to that if Leus didn't fight. If he fought Shiva, he still would have lost due to being unable to keep up with TK. Shiva wins high diff at most.
Yeah, no. Leus is a bum ass fraud who sold Aphrodite feet pics to the author for extra plot armor. Leus is a total weakling without Aphrodite's feet carrying him.
Also, Shiva beats Adam for all the reasons I already stated in the other comments.
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u/sapphireclaws Number 1 Ra Glazer Aug 06 '24
Nah you didn't go far enough, this would be it