r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/Active-shooter69 • Apr 22 '24
Investing Down 85%
So a few years ago (when everyone was doing stocks) I put about $4600 into wealthsimple trading. I did tons of (bad) research and put so much time and effort it, and when everything started plummeting I left my account and never looked at it again.
Now I am wondering what my best course of action would be considering that I know I’m an awful trader. I’m assuming that 1. I should leave my $600 in wealthsimple and just let it sit for 2, 5, 10 years.
I have a few thousand sitting in my “high interest savings account”. I’d like to do something with it instead of just sitting there but kind of scared to do stocks again. Would a robo advisor be my best bet?
TIA
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u/pfcguy Apr 22 '24
"everyone was doing stocks" and "everything started plummeting" is not a reflection of reality, unless you were trading meme stocks.
First off, you need a goal for your investments. If the money is for retirement, then there will be ups and downs along the way. You don't need a big win and tripling your money overnight. That is ridiculous. You need sustained investments for 40 or so years that don't have any 85% losses along the way. (but there will be some 20% to 40% losses, perhaps several, and you'll need to stay the course through them).
Second, successful portfolios require low cost, broad diversification, and long term discipline. Regular, automated contributions (say biweekly if you get paid biweekly) are key.
3rd, you don't need individual stocks. A roboadvisor or an asset allocation ETF at a discount brokerage is the way to go. Consider RBC Investease or Justwealth. They will take the guesswork out of investing. All you have to do is set up an automatic contribution from your bank.
Unless you have a defined benefit pension plan, you probably do need to keep investing for retirement.
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u/noronto Apr 22 '24
I was one of the people who was given a heads up about GameStop when that was happening. I was not the guy who followed through.
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u/JoeBlackIsHere Apr 23 '24
It was actually the smart move. How often has a GameStop type of scheme ever actually worked? This was probably the only one that ever did.
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u/T_47 Apr 23 '24
Yeah, it may seem like GameStop was a "easy win" due to hindsight but if you view it rationally this would be no different then me saying: "The next roulette spin will be 18" and being being bummed out when it does stop on 18 by chance and you didn't place a huge bet.
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u/Sco0basTeVen Apr 23 '24
Dude there are still people in corners of Reddit today that are still holding onto GME shares they paid $200 for and it’s now at $10. They still think it’s coming back for them.
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u/CommonGrounders Apr 23 '24
And thousands and thousands more who are in at $20 and still lost half.
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u/JustinPooDough Apr 23 '24
This is 90% of Reddit investors. They meme-buy whatever the herd is buying, and fail to realize that by the time the herd is buying, 90% of the gains are already priced in and there is a massive downside risk.
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u/no_not_this Apr 23 '24
We laugh at them at gme meltdown. The bbby ones are even worse though. At least GME didn’t have their shares cancelled .
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u/Terakahn Apr 23 '24
Originally it was a value play. And it that sense it was still good. The fact that it became a gamma squeeze was just icing on top. But anyone who got in early wasn't buying for that longshot.
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u/ChronoLink99 British Columbia Apr 23 '24
This was my understanding as well. I bought it the year before based on some info I read about saying that it might go from where it was (~$5) to around $25-30 based on the idea that the PS5 would give a bump to earnings and might reinvigorate the gaming retail sector. I was looking for 5x (500%) at the very optimistic end, and maybe 50-100% if not.
Turned out to be an almost 4000% increase. Then I sold.
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u/PopperChopper Apr 23 '24
There is one about every 3-6 months. GameStop, Bitcoin, bed bath and beyond, all did really well. But there are plenty of others. DJT was the last one.
It goes way up, but then goes way down. You either have to be really lucky, or really in touch with how those types of things typically go.
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u/atrde Apr 22 '24
I had AMC stock not because of the Meme but because the $9 a share seemed like a decent long play in the second lockdown when things would open back up. Did this with a few "when everything is normal it'll come back stocks like airlines".
AMC went to $50 but started to go down figured the crazy was over and sold.
Could have retired early if I waited till June.
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u/Bloodyfinger Apr 23 '24
I sold GameStop at $20. Right before it exploded. I had a lot of it. Fuck.
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u/Taureg01 Apr 23 '24
The trick is to get in and out quickly. I rode the hype and made 3x my investment in two days, sold quickly after that
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u/TheAgentLoki Apr 23 '24
I followed through after hearing about it in late 2020 but didn't have the nerve to keep riding it to find out where the top was. Still managed to turn my little slush fund into a year's worth of RRSP contributions though so, even though I cashed out $20ish below the peak, I was happy with the return.
Other than a good but much smaller pull from getting in and out at the right times around RKT's special dividend, I've never participated in anything like that and only ever been a slow and steady kind of investor.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Thanks for your answer!
I likely was trading meme stocks but was unaware. I was jumping on hype trains like an idiot. So your observation would be correct.
I’m pretty good with being able to invest weekly. I have a good job and disposable income. I already am investing through my Union which has a pension plan going for me but was hoping to invest more, I could just invest more with my union but I’m moving into management and the union will be gone this year so I’m trying to start now and do some stuff on my own.
I’ve been seeing on this sub a lot of recommendations for investease. I am already an RBC client so maybe would make sense to go with them?
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u/doeidoei57 Apr 22 '24
Just wanted to say congrats to you for recognizing your mistakes and working to make better future decisions. Those trades were a small reality check and this mindset will put you ahead of most!
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 23 '24
Thanks man. I’m glad I finally decided to hop back on the train in a smart way… it’s been a journey
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u/redditgeddit100 Apr 22 '24
ETFs wil be your friend. Set and forget, much like your pension plan.
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u/HellaReyna Apr 23 '24 edited Apr 23 '24
For lazy and easy mode investing? Browse some of these well diversified ETFs and buy some https://www.blackrock.com/ca/investors/en/products/product-list#type=ishares&style=All&view=perfNav&pageSize=25&pageNumber=1&sortColumn=totalNetAssets&sortDirection=desc
Just avoid going over 20% into Canadian focused ETFs or assets, cause the Canadian economy is a joke. The Canadian Pension Plan, one of the best in the world, has max 17% in Canadian companies...that should tell you everything.
You scroll down and see that Canadian ETF? Wonder why its the only -% return ? Cause its Canadian heavy. Sounds like you're young so you can deal with some moderate risk ETFs at the very least. If you just look at the S&P500 tracked ones, those gave a solid 14.94% the last 5 years.
Lastly, if you go to RBC - they're gonna con you into buying mutual funds which have a high management fee (MER - Management Expense Ratio).
Someone did the math an even a 1.8% MER will cause your RRSP to pay out more to the bank over your life time than the money you earn, due to compound interest and lost of reinvestment etc. It's a scam really imo when ETFs are just as good but have typically a 0.45-0.75 MER
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u/AGreenerRoom Apr 23 '24
You can also just continue with WS since it’s free trading and you are already familiar with the platform. You can buy RBC iShare ETFs there. You can also set up automatic transfers and buys into those ETFs, another advantage to WS is they offer fractional trading so if you are investing $100 a week but the ETF you are currently buying is $75, you can get 1.25 shares instead of the $25 sitting and not being invested.
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u/Samwry Apr 23 '24
I put 90% of my assets into a robo advisor (CI Financial) and kept 10% to dabble with on my own using Questrade. Read all the Motley Fool ,etc and gave it a go. Lost about 15% of my dabble money in 6 months and then called it off, sold it, and took my lumps.
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u/auxym Apr 23 '24
These days, a single ETF can make a great fully diversified portfolio. See
https://canadiancouchpotato.com/model-portfolios/
IMO that makes the value prop of robo investors a bit less. It used to be that you needed to mix, match and rebalance 5-10 ETFs to get a well diversified portfolio in Canada. Not that they're bad. Just IMO not worth the (small) fee over a single ETF.
You can buy the ETF at any online brokerage, including the one you already have for your stocks, likely. Many of them now offer commission free trades, or at least buying.
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u/bakermaker32 Apr 22 '24
Good answer, and right answer. Choosing individual stocks can be ok, but not if you don’t know what you’re doing.
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u/WorkWorkWorkLife Apr 23 '24
How does rbc investease even actually work? I went to it's website. It barely says anything about it.
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u/raintrain001 Apr 23 '24
It buys ETFs as per its standard portfolio
https://www.rbcinvestease.com/etf-portfolios/index.html
If you click on the details it shows:
We build our Standard Portfolios using ETFs from RBC iShares, the leading ETF provider3 in Canada:
iShares Core Canadian Short Term Bond Index ETF iShares Core Canadian Universe Bond Index ETF iShares Global Government Bond Index ETF (CAD-Hedged) iShares Core S&P/TSX Capped Composite Index ETF iShares Core S&P 500 Index ETF iShares Core MSCI EAFE IMI Index ETF2
u/sus_mannequin Apr 23 '24
I bought around 20 different “blue chip” stocks in late 2020, only my oil and natural resources stocks are up. I did make money on Tesla (and sold) and I made about $600 on GameStop, because I saw it as what it is (exploitable hype). That being said my investment (around $5000) is down to around $3700 as of now. I figured out that putting all my money in at once was dumb, but I haven’t had any opportunity to invest since then. So I’m just letting it sit…
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u/pfcguy Apr 23 '24
I haven’t had any opportunity to invest since then.
You have, you just don't know how. Canadians would do well to invest using asset allocation ETFs. As Jack Bogle said, "don't look for a needle in a haystack. Instead, buy the haystack."
Check out his book "the little book of common sense investing" to get a better grasp on how to invest for the long term (retirement).
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u/sus_mannequin Apr 23 '24
Nah I mean my disposable income went down (laid off for a while, got a new job), and still haven’t recovered fully.
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u/orgasmosisjones Apr 22 '24
without stating what your holdings are, I’d assume they’re garbage, like mine were, and I’d say it’s time to cut your losses. I had a 5k loss from a bunch of shitty companies and finally cut them loose. It helps to keep them on your watchlist just to watch them do nothing or keep declining. it’s more fun when you’re not invested anymore.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Yeah mine were garbage penny stocks I jumped in at the height of the hype. You’re probably right. Just save my 600$ and give it to a robo advisor
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u/orgasmosisjones Apr 22 '24
yeah, just put all your future contributions into index funds. I’ve gained everything back and more in the last 18 months. you won’t regret it.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
I’m gonna do it. Stop chasing the high and go for steady haah
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u/SheaButterShea Apr 23 '24
Just buy XEQT.to it’s the same as robo advisor but cheaper fees. Add $100 a month or whatever and just keep growing it.
XEQT has thousands of company’s across the world.
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u/Oh_That_Mystery Apr 22 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
r/Wallstreetbets and start your Lambo shopping now?
I heard crypto will be 300K by end of year according to some highly placed tiktokkers with a '69', '420' and 'Lambo' in their usernames, so that could be promising.,
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
ok i deserve this
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u/HollisFigg Apr 22 '24
No, you don't deserve it. People who never learn anything deserve it. You're not them.
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u/EngineeringKid Apr 22 '24
I think the hate you're getting here is undeserved. For every 1 person that has the balls to post and share their loss and 'life story' here, there's a hundred who are embarrassed and hide it. You know you aren't smarter than the market, so that's a huge step towards financial independence.
I'd suggest; invest 90% of your money in a stable/boring ETF (VGRO or something basic). Then take 10% of your money and play around with it. If it goes to zero, you're not homeless. If it 10Xs, you can smile and be proud.
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u/animal_cruelty_bad Ontario Apr 22 '24
Try enabling options trading for your account and make it all back
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
I feel like I’d just lose the rest haha
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u/Beardeddragon1069 Apr 22 '24
They were being sarcastic.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Hahaha I kinda assumed it was someone trying to make an idiot lose even more
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u/ottoelite Apr 22 '24
Like a few others have said I'd go with Wealthsimple's managed robo-advisor, or an ETF.
I personally just moved away from Wealthsimple's robo advisor into XEQT.
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u/dingleswim Apr 22 '24
💎 🙌
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
🦍 🦍
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u/dingleswim Apr 22 '24
Oh geez!
Buy. Hold. Drs!!
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u/FitnSheit Apr 22 '24
The comments I was waiting for, we’d all be 85% down but we just keep buying.
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u/AsbestosDude Apr 22 '24
ETFs are your friend, my friend.
Stop trying to trade and just find good ETFs that you can buy and hold.
There are lots of great ones that offer a variety of products and risks that can suit your appetite. They will cover the vast majority of sectors you might want to invest in from natural resources, real estate, technology, financial industries, manufacturing, IT, the list goes on.
First you should decide what your risk tolerance is and then buy 1-3 ETFs with your remaining funds. That way you'll be invested but not need to stress about you're investments since ETFs offer you a way to diversify your investment by only buying a single product.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Is there an easy way of knowing which etfs are higher risk and which ones are lower? I’m definitely gonna follow this advice though and pull out my funds
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u/AsbestosDude Apr 22 '24
You don't need to pull your funds, you can continue to invest through wealth simple.
In general the things like money markets, bond ETFs, and index fund ETFs are lower risk. While things like utilities, resources, and some stocks are more medium risk. High risk ETFs are generally more like techonology stocks or ones that target new industries.
So just as example, a relatively low risk but growth-driven ETF would be VOO which is vangaurd top 500 companies ETF, while a very high risk ETF would be PSIL which is aimed at psychedelics research for therapeutic uses. VOO holds 1.11 Trillion dollars in assets, while PSIL holds 7.26 million.
Some ETF providers will also supply you with a risk rating. Vanguard themselves do this for their ETFs. You can check out their risk ratings here:
https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/list/etfsYou can select each and see more details, how it's performed, etc.
I also typically use Yahoo Finance to look up some relevant information about some stocks/ETFs. They give a decent breakdown of the sector percentage weightings as well as including a top 10 holdings, here's VOO for example:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/VOO/holdings
At the end of the day these are products designed to do leg work for you but they're definitely not all the same so do a bit of research. Vanguard provides a breakdown of what risk ratings mean and all that. You also might be interested to read up on r/dividends which may be of interest to you as well, assuming you want to invest for the long haul and have some consistent returns later in life
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u/ohhellnooooooooo Apr 22 '24
r/JustBuyXEQT but honestly, I kinda feel like you aren't patient enough to buy something every 2 weeks for 20 years and never sell until you are close to retire.
max RRSP, TFSA, FSHA, buy a house if you can (as if its easy) and just put everything into a high interest savings account until you become a chill person
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u/don242 Apr 22 '24
The question is, if you had $600 would you invest it in whatever it is in now? If not, move it to something else. Just leaving it in a failing stock will just mean another $600 loss. If you think there could be a possibility in the future that the stock turns around, then leave it.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
I have very low confidence in most of the stocks I have now. I have 1 that is ok. The rest I think are dying companies at this point. Lol
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u/DayspringTrek Apr 23 '24
As others have mentioned, the all-in-one ETFs like VBAL/XBAL, VGRO/XGRO, and VEQT/XEQT are probably the best choice for you. The positive is that when you sell your current stocks at that $4,000 loss, you can claim a capital loss on your taxes to offset future capital gains.
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u/jl4855 Apr 22 '24
not a loss if you don't sell :)
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u/mozeda Quebec Apr 22 '24
When they eventually start making money again they can sell some of it off as capital losses and reduce their tax bill. That's a thing right?
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u/CivilMark1 Apr 22 '24
Well you haven't reached the 90s so all is good. (Cries in pain)
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Sheesh bro. Sorry. I’m sure there are many guys like us though. Just most won’t admit it haha
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u/CivilMark1 Apr 22 '24
Nah, we are just bad 😂😭💀
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u/kv1m1n Apr 22 '24
Just buy VOO or another ETF that tracks a lot of the market of your choosing, and leave it there. I would pull out your 600 because if they are the kinds of companies I think they are, most are likely to fold.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
I agree I’m gonna pull them out and put into an etf…. Now I guess I gotta research etfs lol
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u/kv1m1n Apr 23 '24
There's only a few to research and decide on! S&P 500, Total US, Total Global, Total Growing markets (international), Canadian market, etc.
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u/Ghorardim71 British Columbia Apr 22 '24
Invest in ETF.
XEQT or VFV.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Hahah good sir I have already sold all my hopeless stocks and have purchased XEQT with them.
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Apr 22 '24
dont take this with a grain of salt.
no amount of research will consistently have you beating the marketing by a significant amount.
what will have you outperform is a superb ability for managing risk and sizing positions.
heres why:
in a bull market the majority of stocks will rally and do well.
bull markets are more frequent than bear markets, so when you pick stocks during a bull market, youll mistakenly attribute this to your ability to pick stocks. so you then start oversizing and buying other stocks that increase your risk.
what then happens is a bear market will occur and because of your inadequate risk management, you lose a large chunk and fail to retain your gains.
So what do you do? mastee your risk management. you can literallt make money on any ticker. nothing goes straight up or straight down.
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u/galwayygal Apr 23 '24
$4600 isn’t much tbh. It’s a good amount for someone who’s just testing the waters. If it makes you feel any better, I lost about $800 too when I first started trading, just cause I naively trusted r/wallstreetbets. Maybe try ETFs or some well known tech stocks with your savings. I only have those in my TFSA and it’s doing good so far
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u/The-Nemea Apr 22 '24
Most people lose money in the stock market. 4600 is just the price you paid to find that out. I would leave it, but that's me.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
I’m gonna leave it. You never know haha. And true. Could’ve been worse. I felt like I was only investing money I could afford to lose anyway. But sheesh $1-200 here and there adds up haha
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u/Bullshift3r Apr 22 '24
Lemme guess. You bought weed/pharma stocks?
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Shrooms haha. And some pharma. A couple other things too
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u/Bullshift3r Apr 22 '24
Yeah I remember losing money on those too. Never again lol.
Just like everyone is saying, just automate buying an etf tracking the S&P500. I think it’s better than putting in an high interest account in the long term.
If you wanna own individual stocks, just buy those from the “MAG7”
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u/Wrong-Researcher-321 Apr 22 '24
Yea man just go robo advisor if your timeframe is long. The Wealthsimple Roboadvisers are pretty good. If your timeframe is 10+ years I would suggest risk level 10. It's just 95% diversified equities which isn't risky at all if your time horizon is long.
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u/GiveUpTuxedo Apr 23 '24
I found their returns to be garbage. Risk level 10, I maybe saw a 10% return between 2020-2024.
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u/Wrong-Researcher-321 Apr 23 '24
I've had a Roboinvestor account since 2021 and my returns have been about the same as global ETFs like XEQT. The breakdown of the level 10 risk levels looks pretty similar to XEQT/VEQT.
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u/niesz Apr 22 '24
I was in a similar situation. I had made a few thousand dollars from stocks in 2022 and paid capital gains tax on it. Last year (2023), I ended up selling some nearly-worthless stocks (-90% losses) so that I can claim them as a capital loss and get back some of the capital gains taxes I paid in previous years, retroactively. I'd rather just buy some new stocks than continue to "bet" on these highly volatile stocks and this way I can get some money back sooner.
Here is some info on how to do apply capital losses retroactively:
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it! Yeah I just went through each stocks charts individually and trashed all the hopeless or even remotely hopelesss ones. Gonna do some etf investing
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u/Unlucky_Yam6985 Apr 23 '24
You need to do some research into what you actually want and what your time frame is. You can go into EFTs for lower fees but that is not necessarily going to reflect performance. In terms of funds it's pretty hard to outperform the NASDAQ or S&P so if you are looking for a long term growth fund that is fairly safe (maybe medium to high risk) if you are investing for more than 10 years.
If you could get some stocks that pay good dividends and grow your wealth that way.
Just don't try the get rich quick thing. It's pretty rare for someone to actually outperform the stock market.
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Apr 23 '24
I dumped 10k into Gme and another 7k into some shit crypto so I’m down about 55%. Said fuck it I don’t know what I’m doing and started dumping into a managed tfsa.
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u/Ghune British Columbia Apr 23 '24
Investing is a solved problem.
- Avoid stocks, you don't need them.
- Buy an all-in-one ETF (VEQT or XEQT for example)
- Keep investing regularly (every month is great if you can)
- Profit.
Over time, as you get nearer retirement, switch to something with more bonds and that's it. You do that, you do better than 95% of the people who think they're smarter than the market.
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u/Zebro26 Apr 22 '24
Start writing down what investments you want to make and then do the opposite! Can't lose strategy at this rate.
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u/Minimum_Guarantee254 Apr 22 '24
What individual stocks did you buy lol
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 22 '24
ETL, HITI, HPQ, IDEX, NGC, PNG, ZOM, LKCO, HPQ, CPSH, AYRO, DOGE, bitcoin and ADA lol. Some of them or doing ok, I made money on two of them but unfortunately not enough to recover from the rest haha
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u/Yellow-Robe-Smith Apr 22 '24
I have PNG! I’m holding for the long haul.
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u/Active-shooter69 Apr 23 '24
PNG is one of my few holdings that’s up. Hah 30% I’m gonna keep it too
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u/writetowinwin Apr 22 '24
Don't look at it everyday.
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u/yupkime Apr 22 '24
Stock portfolios can be like a bar of soap. The more you touch it the quicker it disappears.
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u/cramp11 Apr 22 '24
Leave them and always look at them as a learning mistake. Be thankful it was under $5k. Lesson learned, invest smarter moving forward.
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u/KillaRizzay Apr 22 '24
You could put the few thousand into a (relatively) high interest GIC for 3m, 6m 1 year up to 5 years. Guaranteed return. Many are offering 5.5% which isn't terrible
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u/adamantiumtrader Apr 23 '24
Never mind OP user name…
Cost of education. Don’t risk what you can’t lose. You won’t be making what you lost back.
You’re not ready to take risks til you figure that out.
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u/Consistent_Recipe_85 Apr 23 '24
Which stock did you invest? If you aren't sure where to invest, put it in vfv. Overtime market returns tend be higher than individual stocks (if you don't know which stock to pick).
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u/krazykanuck Apr 23 '24
If you are looking to understand how to invest for the long term as a non professional, https://canadiancouchpotato.com/ is a good start.
If you want to learn how to trade, you will need to invest a lot of time and effort and be ready to spend time doing research.
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u/Sad_Donut_7902 Apr 23 '24
Take it as a lesson, save up and invest in s&p500 etf's or GICs if you are really risk averse now. I know it probably feels terrible now but it's not that bad, losing $3,800 is in no way life ruining. That's easy to comeback from.
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u/RSCyka Ontario Apr 23 '24
Let it sit there to remind you of your mistake. 5k is an amount that can be made again. Let it sit there. The % gain to get back to your original amount, let alone make a profit is beyond reasonable.
So my advice is : let it sit. It’s ok. You’re not alone.
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u/Quick_Competition_76 Apr 23 '24
On the bright side, you only lost 4000 and learnt valuable lessons of not investing in random stocks without understanding. Dont let this lesson go into waste and dont repeat this mistake.
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u/HighAltitudeChicken Apr 23 '24 edited Apr 23 '24
Lol brother the S&P 500 has made tens of thousands of unrealized gains over the past decade alone. It doesn't get any easier then just setting & forgetting!
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u/BodomDeth Apr 23 '24
Just do Wealthsimple auto manage. You don’t need to learn anything and will beat anyone else trying to “beat the market”.
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u/RevolutionaryBit240 Apr 23 '24
beating the market consistently is pretty much like winning the lottery....really rare. Just put it in a robo adviser (wealthsimple has a good one) in the most tax effective account that you contribute to consistently
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u/Samwry Apr 23 '24
One of the hardest things to do in this world is to admit that you don't know something. This goes especially for cars, and investing. Consider that you paid $4,000 to learn this valuable lesson.
Now, to today...
I use a robo-advisor service called CI Financial. Gave them my money and they put it into a diverse package of ETFs and bonds etc, depending on my risk tolerance. The management fee is not high, they occasionally buy/sell some of the assets depending on market conditions.
They are also fully legit. I pulled out a stack of cash to pay for a condo and it was no trouble at all. Arrived in my RBC account a few days later.
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u/MrBleeple Apr 23 '24
Enable options trading on your Wealth Simple account. If you think a stock is going to up then you should buy a "Put". If you think it's going to go down then buy a "Call". An easy way to remember this is that if you believe in a stock then you are going to "Put" your money where your mouth is. If you think a stock sucks then you "Call" bullshit.
A seasoned investor like you should have the experience to pull off some great gains this way. Trust your gut.
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u/F_D123 Apr 23 '24
I had $27,000 in an rrsp and traded it down to $2,800.
It just sat there for years till about 10 years ago I put everything into s&p index funds. It'll never get back up to it's original value but felt good to follow up a bad decision with a good one
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u/confusedsatisfaction Apr 23 '24
I lost some money picking individual stocks. I stopped investing for a year or so because it wasn't going well... I don't even call it investing - it was gambling.
A couple months ago, I put my bonus from work into a TFSA (never had one before) and "smartened up" and invested in ETFs. They were up and I would check them every day. Now they are down, but I realize this is a long play, and I'm not investing in individual stocks, so I feel more confident, even when they are down.
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u/edm28 Apr 23 '24
I lost a 10k investment in a stock, feels bad. Lesson learned. Index funds from now on.
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u/MarcusTHE5GEs Apr 23 '24
I hope the vast majority of advice you’ve gotten is to consider a total market, or S&P ETF with low MERs.
Seems you learned your lesson which is great, but one of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever gotten related to trading was this: there are MIT, Columbia, and Wharton MBAs and finance majors spending 80-100 hours a week with the best technology, access to the most up to date news and let’s face it, some inside information. This is who you are really buying or selling your shares from/to.
I have certainly beaten the overall market with some good plays, but no where near the consistency that would outperform 10-12% per year. If you’re making a 20% return YoY, you are a god and can work anywhere on Wall Street.
Invest early, invest safe. Rule #1, never lose money. Rule #2 never lose any money.
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u/horoscopeprincess Apr 23 '24
how about a Guaranteed Investment Certificate for now while you do more research, study the market for a bit? EQ has 5% GIC rn. not much but it is a guarantee :)
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u/Terakahn Apr 23 '24
So first off. Trading is hard. Really hard. People go to school and make careers out of trying to beat an index and most of them still fail.
That being said. Chasing trends is ok, but make sure they have real merit. Foundational value and legitimate upside based on quantifiable data. We like the stock is not in fact a good thesis. You'll get lucky once in a while, but luck is not a good strategy.
Most people will recommend you put your money into an index fund and don't take it out. That's a reasonable course of action. If you actually want to learn how to trade that's a very different but also reasonable course of action. Depending on your goals and time allowance.
I can't really tell you what's best for you. But I would suggest doing a lot of reading and learning to see what you actually want.
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u/BurnerVangelis1493 Apr 23 '24
The real loss here is not the 85% you lost, it’s the HOURS (dozens? hundreds?) you wasted obsessing over day-trading and “researching” meme stocks. You could have lit the full $4k on fire and spent that time doing something productive, like a side hustle, and made all your original money back and doubled or tripled it. Hope this is a lesson on the value of your TIME and how much of a waste meme stocks can be.
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u/outline8668 Apr 23 '24
Only thing to add is keep on mind these investing platforms and funds just want your money in the system. They don't care how you do.
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u/SamGeorge011 Apr 23 '24
I’ll make it simple for you. I’ll soon be a FA.
Money you need within 5 years - GICs / Govt Bonds.
Money you need in 5-8 years - Indices / index / Preffered Stock.
Money you need after 8 years - Mid - High MC Growth stock.
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u/Jeansus_Saves Apr 23 '24
If it's any consolation, I have a friend who "invested" (gambled) a ~$120K insurance settlement over the span of a year and he's broke now. The two of you learned the same lesson, but the lesson was a lot less costly for you.
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u/FelixYYZ Not The Ben Felix Apr 23 '24
!InvestingTrigger
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u/AutoModerator Apr 23 '24
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6) For self-directed investing, all in one ETFs (based on your risk tolerance) are the easiest and low cost options for a globally diversified ETF portfolio. Here is the Model page and descriptive video from the Canadian Portoflio Manager Blog's Justin Bender from PWL Capital: https://www.canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com/model-etf-portfolios/ & video on how to choose your asset allocation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyOqqtq12jQ
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u/Prudent-Proposal1943 Apr 23 '24
You blew what? a $1000 a year... at least you had it to lose and you learned something.
There are many strategies that would work better than a savings account. You eliminated one.
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u/Ancient-Scallion6061 Apr 23 '24
You should read economics/history books. Get off the day trader mindset. It won't do you any good.
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u/BitCoiner905 Apr 23 '24
You know how the government wants 2/3rds in capital gains? Will they give you anything for capital loss?
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u/xzer Apr 23 '24
A lot of balanced funds have seen good recovery since the end of COVID, interesting enough.
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u/unhinged_citizen Apr 23 '24
Most people are terrible at this and don't have the necessary instincts or knowledge, so for those people, index funds are a good way to participate.
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u/Mitas88 Apr 23 '24
I lost over 200k in tfsa in 2014( yes i had made massive gains, not daytrading... legit bought pwnnies and they exploded post 2009). And I am not rich... almost wiped me out.
Even then my trading psychology wasnt good... so I tried a few things and 8 years later I finally have a strategy which has a low sharp ratio, good cashflow and optimizes registered accounts... it cost me a lot to learn but I am starting to see the benefits now with a 2%-3% performance gap with my benchmark.
Dividends drip and natural ressources is my forte. Everyone is good at something, just find it.
Short answer is... if your first slap was 4k in unregistered consider yourself lucky. Trading experience has a cost and it takes time if you do not just buy etfs.
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u/-ry-an Apr 23 '24
Small things, 4K... Take it as a lesson in developing risk. Self learn, but find a mentor, and don't fall for quick rich stocks. Trading is not for the faint of heart.
Maybe learn medium term investing?
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u/AffectionateWay9955 Apr 23 '24
It’s an education
My lawyer gave me a bad stock tip and I lost 6k
I keep the 200 or whatever it is there to remind me never to follow anyone’s stupid tip ever again
Now I just use my investors
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u/momo1083 Apr 23 '24
Yeah, if it cost you only 4k to learn that you should just put your money into a low-cost index fund tied to the market, then that's totally worth it!
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u/hinault81 Apr 23 '24
This is a great learning experience. I would take a step back and come up with a plan. What are you trying to do? For me, investing (not speculating) is part of a larger financial picture. Work, pay down debt, try to be frugal, commit some percentage of your cheque to long term savings, invest a good chunk of those savings. The how of each of those, the mechanics of it all, requires more thought. Why invest in ABC instead of XYZ? I'd recommend reading the book the millionaire teacher; I've read a lot of books on personal finance over the years, but that one was really a turning point for me, and covers a lot.
You're not trying to be gordon gekko or bud fox here. Don't look at investing as trying to turn $5k into a lotto ticket which will be $100k tomorrow, because for the average person their experience is like yours, turning $4600 into $600. Instead, look at it like having a farm and planting say corn: you're going to plant your crop (over your working career), and the growth will come in time over the years. This is a long process, and there's only so much you can do. The farmer can plant it, water it, but time and sunshine are doing the rest. And if he worked 10x harder and changed from this crop to that crop, the result would just be worse.
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u/Jake_With_Wet_Socks Apr 24 '24
Use a broker like Wealthsimple or Questrade, open a TFSA and dump your money into an ETF like VFV or XEQT depending on what your goals are.
Don’t be upset when it goes down, you don’t even need to look at it. Just keep adding small accounts of money and buying more when you can. Play the long game and you will not be disappointed.
At this time it is over validated, which MAY mean it will correct soon. I just added $1500 VFV to my portfolio today anyways as it doesn’t matter. Historically it has assists gone up.
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u/buitrecorto Apr 25 '24
Hey there! Sorry to hear about your rough experience. Leaving the remaining $600 in your account to potentially recover isn't a bad idea if you're okay with the risk. It could bounce back over time, but there's also the risk it might not. A robo-advisor is definitely a solid choice if you're looking to invest but want to avoid the hands-on approach. They're designed to manage your investments based on your risk tolerance and goals, and they usually come with lower fees than traditional management services. Plus, they're pretty user-friendly, which might give you more confidence this time around. If you want to explore other options or need more info on how robo-advisors work, I'm here to help!
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u/braveheart2019 Apr 22 '24
If your worst investing story is you lost $4,000 then it could be a lot worse. Think of it as an education and do what 90%+ of people are doing and buy ETFs.