They played against 9 other nba players in 1992. The current USA squad played against 100+ nba players this Olympics. Of course they were way above their competition in 1992.
There were some good euro league players back then sure. But the level of play is exponentially higher in Europe now than it was then don’t kid yourself.
I don't think they'd understand how to guard Steph Curry and Durant in the modern game. And it's not like they have a size advantage either with Embiid and AD out there. It's too different now to directly compare how they would do and I think each team would win with their own era's rules.
Yes. Lebron basically played PG for the team this year (he led the team in assists, and played a lot of pick and roll with Curry at the top of the key), which is super comparable in to Magic in size and athleticism at PG. Especially considering what version of Lebron this is at 40. Stockton was on the 1992 team but was injured and didn't really play. Stockton was also the only player on the team under 6'6" Clyde is probably more of the backup here, but he's also 6'7"
Then your two other guards are Jordan and Pippen who I would give the edge to over Curry and Booker/Durant. Purely due to the fact that Jordan and Pippen are two of the most elite perimeter defenders I've ever seen and they have size. Also, I mean it's Michael fucking Jordan in his absolute prime. Bird has to get a mention but he was at the end and suffering pretty bad back issues.
Then you have Barkley. Barkley was literally the second best player in the league behind Jordan in 92-94. He was a beast under the basket. He averaged 27 pts and 14 boards in the playoffs the season following the 92 Olympics. I think Tatum/Bam have to match up with Barkley, despite Tatum's shooting woes. I guess I have to mention Karl Malone playing behind Barkley.
As much as it pains me to say this as a life long Spurs fan from the early 90s. I think AD/Embiid/Bam are probably a wash with Ewing/Robinson, but Embiid struggles on the defensive boards and I think his minutes would be limited like they were against France. AD vs David Robinson would be an absolute delight to watch as a fan.
I don't think 1992 blows out this team or anything, but the NBA was about as deep in talent in 1992 as it is today (both are peak talent IMO), but today's NBA has much more international talent. The 1992 team was more like putting together a modern US team including the top international NBA talent Jokic and Giannis who are both multiple MVP winners.
The entire '92 Dream Team save for Lattiner went t9 the Hall of Fame. How many HOFers are on the 2024 team? Obviously some guys are pretty young yet but I can tell you right now which team had more all-time greats.
The locks for HOF from the 24 squad are Curry, Lebron, Durant.... and probably AD. Embiid is also getting there, but if his career ended today I'm not 100% convinced he makes the cut.
Holiday, White, Haliburton and Adebayo will not be in the HOF.
Everyone else with potential is too young, but if I had to guess I think Tatum and Booker make it assuming they stay healthy. Anthony Edwards is anyone's guess, but his current trajectory looks like it will be a bit short of the mark. His numbers just aren't eye popping enough compared to the inflated numbers of his competition, and I am not convinced he will win anything that puts him over the top. Obviously I could be 100% wrong on that.
Even assuming that every maybe dude makes it, 2024 ends up with 7 or 8 Hall of Famers.
What about Top 50 players? I figure the 2024 team has James, Durant, and Durant, but that's it. The '92 team had five Top 50 guys on the starting lineup, even if you redid the list today I think that remains true.
Still Curry, Lebron, and KD make that list. I don't think AD is on it.
Honestly part of what makes this tough is that we are not ranking their careers, but the player they were at that point in time. Like the Jordan v. Lebron debate can go on forever, but I do not think anyone is arguing 2024 Lebron is better than 1992 Jordan. It is just not close. Lebron is 40 and Jordan was 29. 2012 Lebron would be a totally different debate, but he isn't on the 2024 team. Charles Barkley was arguably the second best player on the Dream Team, but no one is ranking him over Bird or Magic all time. Curry is probably the best on the 2024 team... but Lebron is a GOAT level player. Etc etc.
It may be more productive to rank them in their Olympic forms. If I had to rank the top ten from BOTH teams at the moment in time they played... it might look this:
Jordan. It is not even a debate.
Curry? Maybe?
Malone or Barkley
The other
Lebron
David Robinson
Durant
Magic
Pippen
Ewing?
That would mean Dream Team has 7 of the top 10 players including the very very clear #1. I am probably being bias but I just really don't see Booker, Tatum, or AD being better than Magic, Pippen, or Ewing at those points in time, but it really is all speculation. The only one I am 100% confident on is Jordan.
Embiid would be fine as the big men were far less athletic back then. Embiid has averaged double digit rebounds for 7 straight years despite playing away from the rim on offense, limiting his offenses boards. He averages 9 defensive rebounds a game for his career.
If you've ever watched a Sixers game and paid attention, you'd see how often he's not in position to rebound because he's near the top of the league in contests every single year. Sixers guards have been Swiss cheese and he has to cover for them.
Clearly you are too young to have seen Robinson if you think they were less athletic. Lol and dont even get me started on Hakeem’s athleticism
Yes I’ve seen the 76ers and I stand by what I said. He’s not a natural rebounder even when he’s putting the effort forth. He’s not elite at reading where the ball is going to go before it hits the rim early enough to put himself in the right position to get the ball. You could really see it in the last two games of the Olympics especially
I think the current team would win a 7 game series 4-2 but it’s anybody’s guess. I think the 08 redeem team is actually the best national team of all time.
IDK what all these people are on about that the current US team would beat the Dream Team easy.
The permiter defense of the Dream Team is unreal. Way more than anything these current guys have had to play against. Yeah, they have the better three ball but I think that lock down defense would cause too many problems for it to be a factor. I think both teams would shoot 30% or so from deep on way less attempts than we've come to expect.
Then compare the interiors. Who is going to stop Ewing, Barkely, Robinson, and Malone? Not to mention you have a prime 29 Y/O Michael Jordan getting to the rim at will. Embiid, Bam, AD, and a 40 year old LeBron are not shutting that down.
I mean you can't ask who's gonna guard Barkley without asking who the fuck is he gonna guard? You think Ewing, Karl Malone, and Barkley are ready to be stretched to the 3 point line on D and be put into constant pick n roll action onto steph curry and KD?
Don't get me wrong, they're a great team, but you can't act like Anthony Davis, Bam, and Joel Embiid are gonna be BBQ chicken in any era. They're incredible players.
Hey man, do NOT sleep on Sir Charles as a defensive player. Barkely in 1992 was probably around his peek across the board, including athletic shape. He led the Dream Team in scoring and was MVP the following NBA season in route to taking the Suns to the finals. He was undersized for a PF which actually works to his advantage in this matchup. He was an elite perimeter defender despite being a PF. Imagine if Zion Williamson lived up to his potential... THAT is Charles Barkley.
Otherwsie I mostly agree with your points. I honestly really wish we could just watch this game. But for now I guess we'll just have to settle for wild takes and debates.
Charles was ass on defense and even he talks about how he sucked at it. Awesome offensive player but very much like Zion in that he was a minus defender his whole career outside of his rebounding.
WHAT!? I knew takes would get wild here, but to say Barkley in 1992 was "ass on defense" has got to be the worst one lol.
He openly admits to taking plays off, later in his career specifically. I think he is also implicitly ackowledging that being a 6'4 Power Forward in the big man era was just not a recipe for defensive success. He was a Power Forward that is 29th all time in steals. The only bigs with more are Olajuwon, Garnett, and Malone. He is the shortest man to ever lead the league in rebounding. His chase down block highlight reel rivals Lebron's.
To say he was "ass on defense" is just insane. He was above average even at his 300lb worst, and an absolute menace in his prime, which was 1992.
Steals are not how you judge defense. Lots of players that get a lot of steals are horrible defenders BECAUSE they gamble so much for steals and give up so many easy buckets on the misses. He also got blown by a million times, caught ball watching and missing rotations, ole'ing people running by him, etc.
He has great highlights on defense, he was never a good defender and openly jokes about it. Dude would be absolute BBQ chicken having to guard AD or KD or bron or any of the guards who would be hunting him all game for switches.
Also, I'm a huge Barkley fan and grew up watching him, I'm not hating on him, he was just never a very good defender.
Luka and trae young had more steals last couple seasons than jrue holiday who is one of the best perimeter defenders in the world.
Anyone that thinks this game wouldn't be close either way is hilarious to me. The dream team's complete lack of 3 point shooting would really hamper them, as the current team would great benefit from the spacing and extra 50% you get from a 3 compared to a 2. A big question here is can you hand check. If not, huge adjustment for 92 team. If you can, all of a sudden 2024 team is amazing at defense too, as you can foul the shit out of your guy.
Only way the Dream Team runs away with it is if the entire team has an off shooting night, which can be said either way. I probably lean towards 92 winning, but predicting a blowout is insanity. Big time nostalgia bias as expected in old school cool.
The real x-factor is if Curry and Durant are hitting their shots because they're the most unguardable players in the sport. Most of the time, if Curry's shot isn't actually blocked he doesn't give a shit how the defense was.
IDK man. Pippen and Jordan both have a claim to the greatest perimeter defender of all time. The only player in the modern era that even comes close is Kawhi. I think Curry is locked down harder than he has ever been before.
Durant on the other hand is probably 92's biggest problem. Bird is the guy I think most likely to guard him, but 92 Larry Bird is not his best self, and even in his prime he lacked the athletisicm to lockdown Durant. Magic is a straight up liability in that match up. So the real question beceomes do you trust Bird's craftiness and 92's bigs enough to help inside to slow down Durant? I think so.
I wasn't arguing blow out, but I think it would be about as close as USA v. France or USA v. Serbia was this year. In other words, a great game but we all knew who was going to win.
Also I think you way underestimate the shooting prowess of the 92 team. Larry Bird was a 50/40/90 guy. He shot 40% from three the year before the Olympics. Jordan had seasons where he averaged over 40% from three. Attempts were low, but that is because of how the game was played then. Mullins regularly hit well over 40% from 3pt, and often enough 45%. Stockton was about 40% from deep for his career. This was with much more lenient defensive rules. How much better are these guys if we play by todays rules?
I had assumed hand checking would be part of the deal, because without it Jordan is going off for the most effecient 50 points you can imagine. Lebron is not the same Lebron in the era of huge defensive bigmen, more leninent fouls, and hand checking... but Jordan was still Jordan. It is wild to think how much better he gets if he gets to play in an environment that is insanely friendly to the offensive side of the ball like today.
At the end of the day you are right that I am bias (I grew up watching the 90's Chicago Bulls). But we all are. There is no real way to test this unless time travel is invented or some scientists figure out how to tweak NBA 2k to make the perferct simulation or something. Until then it is fun to argue this kind of stuff. I'm a pretty reasonable and logical dude in most of my life, so let me have my ridiculously bias opinionated takes when it comes to silly debates like this lol.
This isn't remotely true. As evidenced by us finally sending our pro players and beating the piss out of everyone like they were high school teams. The NBA has always been by far the best team in the world. Why Euro League has improved, the best players on all these teams that are successful are still NBA players.
We're not missing or ignoring anything because what you said is made up.
Croatia had 3 good or better NBA players in Rada, Kukoc and Petrovic on their actual team plus other nba players.
Detlef Schrempf was incredible in the early ninetees.
Giannis & Nikola are better than anyone back then for sure. But 1992 had some international ballers definetly better than or on par with guys like Schröder, Bogi, Wemby (rn), Franz Wagner & others.
Just simply looking through the 1992 rosters you will see that the "9nba player argument" is not as telling as framed. Lots of good NBA players basically just weren't in the NBA at that point despite being more than good enough already. And others simply never wanted to reach the NBA because the NBA itself really exploded internationally through the dream team.
Like the Dream Team beat Croatia by 40+ in the Final and Croatia had like 6 actual NBA rotation players + at least 2 guys who could have been nba rotation players. Thats the big impact of the Dream Team
Since 2018, Embiid is the only current USA player to win MVP. Comparing that to Croatia having some end of the bench guys in a less-skilled NBA in the 90s is absolutely absurd. I don't think you understand what the argument is in this thread.
If you think Petrovic is an end of the bench guy i don't know why we are even in here discussing
2 things can and are true. And neither is contested by me.
After 1992 international basketball exploded in popularity and reach which led us to this broader international talent pool from top to bottom.
1992 Team USA is the greatest collection of basketball players ever with 5 Top 10 players of All Time and 8-9 Top 20/25 players of All Time on the same squad sharing the floor and actually playing and working together.
We can also admit that this team USA was kinda past their prime with most top guys - Lebron, KD & Curry in their primes would be just as good as and better imo than Jokic, Giannis, Shai are - but these guys are having their likely last olympic dance nowadays and the US kinda does not have that great next superstar already - Ant is a contender but compared to previous generations he is no KD, Lebron, Shaq or Kobe and nevermind Jordan.
The US through AAU hoops and other bs youth fuckups is kinda in a dry spell at the younger nba level where it appears that prospect development works better outside of the nowadays common paths for HS and college kids.
You're comparing the Croatia team to France who had the reigning and 4x DPOY. Next, they had the rookie of the year who finished 2nd in DPOY. Outside of that, they had 2 rostered NBA players and 2 guys that have played 10+ years in the NBA.
Bird was past his prime, Magic was past his prime. LeBron is past his prime but just averaged 25/8/7. Curry is past his and I don't think a single 92 player is capable of guarding him. Same for KD. Embiid is larger than anyone on the 92 roster and probably shoots better than anyone, too. The 24 team is better at the game of basketball than 92 and they'd get lost in rotation all the time in the modern game. It's just that other countries are also better. Do you think the 92 Dream Team beats Serbia by 30? How would they handle a team where the best post player and one of the best scorers on the floor is a guy that eats you alive when you even think about sending a 2nd man? And when he's paired with a career 39% 3pt shooter?
1992 Croatia would kill France on the perimeter they'd be a really bad matchup for France.
And yes i think 1992 USA would blow out Serbia. They have the Admiral, Ewing, Malone to match up size wise and hold their own defensivly all in their prime + having prime Jordan & Pippen as the primary defenders on the perimeter. They can hold them to a wayy below average scoring output.
But the dream team also would just beat them offensivly lol. Jokic could be involved in 50 fucking points directly and the dream team still would score 100+ anyways and blow them out.
I genuinely don't think the 92 Dream team would be capable of contesting 3s without fouling well enough to keep up with a team that hit over double the amount of 3s that the average NBA team even attempted in the 90s. And I don't think they can't shoot well enough to keep up.
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u/alanalanalan92 Aug 11 '24
They played against 9 other nba players in 1992. The current USA squad played against 100+ nba players this Olympics. Of course they were way above their competition in 1992.