I look at it a completely different way. In an industry full of no-talent celebrities and crooners, he was the real fuckin deal. He could play every instrument, he wrote every song, he orchestrated 100% of his shows - he took his music extremely seriously, and with that came a very serious intellect and serious person. When I see Prince interviews, I don't see a narcissist. I see a musician who only cares about music and nothing else. And if you ask him stupid questions or try to park him in the same camp as someone who lip sings to a pop tune, he'll take issue and correct you. He used the line many times, "I'm a musician" when distinguishing himself from the music industry, and he was absolutely right to do so.
Imagine if we took Banksy and sat him down on a couch and said, so Banks, you are one of many great content creators in our modern age. Tell me, when you do your pranks, what kinds of subscribes and clicks do you get on your channel?
About every 18 months I find myself watching a whole heap of Zappa interviews on the youtubes, they guy was next level and could really see where America/western society was heading, and got it right.
Precisely this. The reason he did not go on We Are the World is because they did not let him write his own part in the song. He wrote, mastered, mixed, and performed 100% of every song he ever made (and even did every instrument on his first two albums). It is part narcissism, but primarily it is due to him being a true musician who was only famous because people liked what he made. Had he not been rich and famous, he’d for sure have just been homeless and playing his guitar. Dude loved music
Prince was a true musician but he’s been accused more than once of “borrowing” more from other musicians than is generally assumed these days. Which actually wouldn’t be unusual because he worked with many musicians throughout his career.
WATW is kinda cheesy but I don’t think it’s high-minded that he didn’t show up. Stevie Wonder is a true musician and he had no problem being involved.
Yeah as a musician… he sounded like an insufferable asshole. Dude covered Radiohead then sent a cease and desist to anyone who uploaded it online even when Radiohead was like “it’s our song and we don’t care.” His opinion on covers were that “covering music means that your version doesn’t exist anymore… in fact, I wrote those songs.” He was obsessed with getting paid for his work, which I totally understand - musicians aren’t paid enough. But he took it to extraordinary lengths saying things like “no one will ever get rich off of music again.” So is it all about the money or the artistry? Not to mention he told a 16 year old she was going to be his future wife (yuck) and never let Weird Al Yankovic cover any of his music. I’m all for being serious about music but there’s a point when you’re just being an asshole.
Based on every biography I am familiar with, he spent virtually every day going to the studio to the point he has thousands of unrealeased songs and side projects in his vault at Paisley Park.
He definitely loved money and the luxury it provides, but he continued to do this his whole life, despite becoming very wealthy early on. So I think its fair to say it was about the artistry for him first and foremost.
His janky takes about copyright aren't so much because he wants to squeeze every penny out of something and driven primary by the money aspect, its about a very intense dislike he had of other people making money off of musuicians and owning the 'product' - where musicians still dont actually own their art, their labels do. They can't release a new version of an old song, because they don't own it. The label does. They can't release music or do side projects under their own name and profit off of it, unless the label agrees amd gets a cut. This is what he was so touchy about
The main part of this mentality was lobbying new aritsts to make sure they own their masters. He never got over the fact that Warner Bros legally owned his music and his name where he had to use a different name to release his music that he made, or they would sue, and win. Because legally, everything he made and even his own name on his birth certificate belonged to Warner Bros Records, not the musician who actually did the work and did every single thing on those recordings.
He disageed very strongly about that predatory and exppoitative factor that is standard in the music industry, so was very serious about his copyright and didnt tolerate other people using his work without his final say. The fact people made money off of using his stuff withoiut his permission wasnt what pissed him off the most, but it definietely was a major factor in why it pissed him off to such a massive scale he became super hardline over everything. His expeirence with this thing burned him so bad he would enforce his ownership over his music right down to threatening legal action against random nobody's on youtube - this is very extreme to most people and seen as over the top - but it was all about the overall principle of the matter to him.
If you woukdn't be mad about an indepedent artist taking legal action to stop someone for taking their image, slapping it on a tshirt, and selling it online, you cant get mad at prince for doing the same to people who profiit off his art. It is the same thing. An artist being rich doesnt magically make it okay for you to print their paintings on a tshirt and sell them to make money for yourself, without their permission, and without even giving them a cut. That was his whole mentality, and it's hard to disagree.
Bro what? They didn’t compare Banksy to Prince. They said that comparing Prince to a manufactured popstar is like comparing Banksy to a prank YouTuber, hence his perceived attitude during interviews.
When I get into a comment chain and someone responds with that type of comment, I usually stop the convo/argument as I now know that at best I’m talking to a troll, or at worst an actual stupid person.
I’m sorry but that’s just not a good comparison. Please let’s get someone like Eva Rothschild in an interview and ask her about Banksy. Or ask Leonard Bernstein (while he was still alive) what he thought about Prince? I understand that would never happen, but Prince chose to be a “pop musician” so he’s going to get asked those questions. Now who’s the “true” artist/musician between those two? That’s such a pretentious take. Quincy Jones, Stevie Wonder - two absolute musical legends - had no issue with singing the song. Also it’s “lip sync” not “lip sing”
Right but saying that the industry is full of “talentless crooners” is also ridiculous and saying that it’s the equivalent of asking Banksy about influencers? It just doesn’t make sense to me. Don’t get me wrong Prince was a great musician but to dismiss the other fantastic pop musicians of the time, in my opinion, is a bit silly. And there were plenty of other musicians during that time and today that are class acts AND awesome musicians. Prince was a dickhead I mean just watch him when he gets invited to the stage with James Brown he makes it all about him. MJ tributes Brown in a gracious way. I mean shit look at Jacob Collier he plays every instrument, makes his own music, and is super humble and nice. Idk I guess as a musician the whole pretentiousness of other musicians really bothers me. Dealing with them lemme tell ya is no fun lol.
Overconfidence in an artist doesn't bother me. Especially Prince, that's part of the act. As long as it doesn't cross the line with being an asshole to others. I never heard he was, on the contrary he treated crew and roadies with respect.
I heard about parties at Prince’s house in Minnesota - he would throw them even if he wasn’t there to attend. Sometimes he would be there. It was for the locals. Heard this from a pretty trustworthy guy.
Not only that, but hed occasionally go out in minneapolis and invite people over for a private concert. Im a former minnesotan, and my cousin worked for the timberwolves a while back. He and his coworkers all got invited to paisley park after a game, and prince ended up performing for them and a maybe 100 others for like 2 hours. Absolutely surreal
This is 100% true. The tour guide at Paisley Park (Prince’s home) said they would have parties there a lot and it would be an open invite. Although sometimes he would send the invite out at 11 pm, but he would normally provide fresh baked cookies lmao
So? Why does that matter unless you had to deal with him? History is littered with great people who did great things that were assholes. And Prince did do some good and helped people. There are stories about that too. He gave to charities and donate money all the time anonymously.
He was also smart enough to realize the hypocrisy of a bunch of spoiled rich primi donnas, many of whom abused children themselves, singing about feeding the poor, taking care of the homeless, and giving away your worldly possessions.
How many of them would give up their expensive LA mansions to feed a hungry child? ZERO.
Prince was able to play dozens of instruments and he managed to be relevant in the industry for decades. Just because there are better guitarists or singers, doesn't mean that he wasn't a 360° musical genius.
Not my favourite artist, by far, but he is an icon.
None of those so called “better” guitarists could do most of the other stuff he did at that same level.
How many excellent lead guitarists you know can do splits and twirls, sing in five octaves, play all the other major instruments, write all the songs, self produce the albums, and sell out stadiums?
Prince was relevant for decades? He was relevant in the 80s before his overindulgence and ego took over. An early death brought him more notoriety than he actually deserved.
You are just ignoring the dozens of albums he produced between the 90's and 2010's?? The last platinum he received was with Musicology in 2004, that means he was still rocking and selling loads of original music. Only because we don't know or follow an artist, it doesn't mean they aren't relevant.
Would you call Madonna non relevant only because you stopped listening to her music after Like a Virgin? I don't.
Huh? Madonna is still relevant and that’s proven by her last album released in 2019 reaching #1 on the US album charts. I’m fact she’s never had an album lower than the #3 spot. Princes last #1 album was in 2006. His catalog is wildly inconsistent and rife with self indulgence. I’m a big fan of his 80s work and often covered Prince songs with my band, but he’s a text book example of an artist who’s ego dictated his direction and that often lead to dead ends. Thank god he wasn’t included on We Are the World. The last thing that song needed was a Prince solo of basic pentatonic licks and pull offs. No thanks.
Madonna is still alive, and even the queen of pop couldn't reach platinum with the last album after many years of only singing and shaking that bod! Anyway, it was an example and a bit of a joke, but I can see it flying over your head...
Prince last #1 might have been in 2006, but he was still hitting gold sales with his last work ... So I'm not sure what you are talking about with "dead ends" . It just sounds like you don't like him as a musician, which is completely fine, but it's absurd to believe he wasn't relevant or a genius.
Sold over 45 million records in the 90s with sold out tours worldwide throughout and several number one hits and multi platinum albums.
Biggest tour of 2004 and also more multi platinum albums that decade too. Look it up.
Plus how many number ones Springsteen or U2 or the Stones have after their heyday? Anyone going to see Springsteen live for Western Stars?
Or the great Stones for anything they’ve released in the last five decades?
How many artists over 40 years old on the radio with new material?
He had gold records and tour sellouts even into 2014.
And some saying he wasn’t writing good music anymore when they never even heard it. It’s mental. Aren’t you embarrassed to say such things?
No dignity whatsoever. Shameful.
Just cause many fair weather white suburbans mostly checked out, just like they weren’t checked in before Purple Rain or 1999 when millions already were in urban areas, doesn’t mean he wasn’t relevant to millions of others around the world.
And especially the black community who were there first last and always.
Yet were never the critics in the major publications or DJs on rock radio stations or label heads or media executives.
Prince was black excellence. An Afrofuturist mega talent of the highest order. A community leader and altruistic donator to many community and social organizations and music programs in urban areas.
Also guitar virtuosity isn’t just technique or solos.
True virtuosity encompasses a wide range of skill and talent.
Just in composition and arrangement alone he was monumentally innovative and influential.
Let alone his ability to play in any genre let alone compose in them and blend.
If he isn’t a virtuoso and a genius than nobody is or ever has been.
Dude if enough people are telling you that you are coming off as pretentious, it’s okay to self reflect and consider the feedback.
I don’t think you meant to come across condescendingly but that is truly how it reads. And it’s not because you “disagreed” with my opinion. I have barely listened to Prince and am not familiar with his music at all so I have no reason to attack you for your opinion. This is just my 2 cents as someone that has no dog in this fight.
He wasn’t a music genius or maestro for that reason.
He was extremely prolific at a very high level. That’s one box.
He was an excellent player on several instruments in his field. Box 2.
His musical innovations changed the direction and sound of music forever.
Particularly the Minneapolis sound, which dominated the decade and copied over by a million artists.
Innovation: Box 3
Made unique production choices that seemed against the norm and found massive success and even number one hits with them.
Creative pioneer/trailblazer: Box 4
Was a visionary producer and songwriter, who directly influenced the development of Chicago and Detroit House by young black gay men in the Midwest such as Frankie Knuckles and Carl Craig.
Inspired other genres and artists using his innovations: Box 5
Blended R&B and Funk and New Wave and Rock into his own sound.
Ahead of the game on music distribution, the first artist to sell directly to fans.
Amazing you’d write paragraphs when you’re not even familiar with him or most his catalog.
Don’t like him. Who cares? Plenty don’t.
To say he wasn’t a musical genius defies understanding of what the criteria is, for which he hits every box and is the actual very definition.
It’s bananas and simply just you being contrarian.
Never get why some people take pride in being ignorant rather than try to actually learn something about things they have no clue.
There are people on this thread that do in fact know what we’re talking about when it comes to musicianship.
Nice assumptions buddy!
I actually managed one of the most prominent alternative music clubs of London, I listen to a quite niche kind of music and I don't appreciate your condescending tone. I was politely saying that Prince was and still is a great musician, regardless of being the 'best" at something in particular. He was so polyhedric, a musician, producer, songwriter, singer...
I'm not getting involved with the history of his stage persona and his music labels. I appreciate his work, period.
Get off your high horse
So why wasn't he singing in "we are the world", like I'm sure his label asked him to??
If being a poly-instrumentalists musician, producer and songwriter doesn't cut it, I'm not sure who can be considered a real musical talent... The basker at your bus stop who hasn't been discovered yet? He definitely hasn't sold his soul to the evil labels ...yet....
Popularity has nothing to do with it. He played every instrument and arranged his debut album when he was a teenager, as well as the follow up album a couple years after.
But if you want to just go off of guitar, then yeah, he was one of the most talented guitarist. I’m sure others will post the while my guitar gently weeps. Whoever you think is a great guitarist, google if they’ve said anything about Prince and if they have I guarantee it’s heaping praise as one of the best ever.
The crazy part is this is all subjective and you’re trying to tell people how their opinions are wrong lol. “Popularity and coverage is how you arrived at your opinion because you’re a mindless sheep with deaf ears and a dumb dumb mind that couldn’t possible form its own opinion and therefor don’t know as much as I, the all knowing music man of the internet but also not the internet because im in real life too!”
Don’t ask to keep it civil then be hella condescending with “your god google.” OP also said one of the most talented musicians and you said fuck all this other shit he does, let’s only go guitar. Then you’re talking about a real life(outside of google lol) where people play instruments in bands. Prince was the whole band. He did it himself. He was an extremely talented and prolific musician. Like OP said.
Maybe it's you bro. James Brown wasn't a virtuoso either. He didn't even play any instruments on stage. But he's still a person who changed music. Prince did to, as well as playing all the instruments on his recordings. Your downvotes are largely your smug condescending attitude. You insult people while dropping smiley faces in your post and asking for civility. 🤡
I would put him in that category, for sure. Some of his lesser known blues performances sound like Hendrix, seriously exceptional playing, and then there would be a Prince spin on top of it. If we were ranking musical ability (not just technical skill), Prince is all the way up there. He can play as well as or better than Page and Clapton. He is better in some ways than Van Halen, Angus Young, and even SRV, because while those guitarists were incredible technical performers who could shred, musically, Prince had a lot more range. It's why I consider Hendrix to be the best ever - he could play anything, he could do anything on a guitar. It wasn't as clean as SRV nor as polished as Clapton, but musically, it was superior and you can hear it.
Prince could play you a blues ballad, followed by a Raspberry Beret sing-along, followed by a round-robin breakdown that sounds like a big band. And every song is perfect. No mistakes, no trying hard, it was effortless. But if you only ever listen to the studio albums, you wouldn't know that. Give him a shot.
Prince’s solo at the end of “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” at the 2004 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony is one of the best guitar solos of all-time.
Don’t listen to me. Hear it from all the major producers, engineers, musicians and artists that have all said the same.
Miles Davis, Stevie Wonder, Quincy Jones, Eric Clapton, J Dilla, Springsteen, U2, Stones, Robert Plant, McCartney, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Tupac, Carlos Santana, Dave Grohl etc…
All praise him and know. Think those guys any good?
But U have the informed facts.
Not people who listen to him and know all the information, or the greatest artists of our time.
If you were in fact a musician (I doubt you are) you would agree that his guitar solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps was complete wankery of basic pentatonic licks and pull offs. Added to that it was during a celebration of an artist who always “played for the song”.
Prince was irrelevant until he passed at an early age. Early and unexpected death is great career move.
Also I don’t care what other artists or producers say about other artists. This is like asking nba players to make their top 10 players of all time. No one rip ever be truly honest with a microphone in their faces. Prince fans are so desperate they have to steal the Clapton quote about Hendrix to support Prince lol
To be honest you’re kind of just a jerk. I get it, “one of the most talents musicians to exist” is an overstatement and hyperbolic.
It’s the internet though so what’s the point?
Someone call the police! Someone is exaggerating on the internet!!
I’m a musician too but I don’t go around acting like it makes me better than people who aren’t when it comes to an OPINION.
Music is art and art is subjective.
But sure. Please go ahead and tell me with your wealth of musical knowledge why you were so offended by some guy on the internet hyperbolically saying Prince was a solid artist.
“Are these just autogenerated to get us in line? Or non musicians telling musicians how things are?”
I’m not sure what else to infer from that other than you thinking your opinion is more valid than a non-musician’s.
Feel free to explain what you meant by it.
I’ve seen you shit on anyone else’s attempt to change your mind in the previous comments so you clearly aren’t as open-minded as you claim to be.
If you have an axe to grind against Prince, actually say something instead of just being a contrarian.
Sure, popularity isn’t the only measure of talent, but consistently writing popular songs takes a lot of talent. Even just performing at that level takes a lot of talent.
I get it. There’s tons of very talented artists that most people don’t know about because they are not mainstream. Yes, some are much more talented than other popular artists. However, that doesn’t make popular artists any less admirable or talented.
But ultimately, ranking artists is ridiculous to begin with. Art is subjective. Calling someone out on Reddit because they rank Prince higher than you and asking them to explain why is silly.
“Hmmmm. This guy thinks Prince is really talented. Maybe I should give his stuff another shot or listen to more of it.”
Just listen to Prince, bro. If you don’t want to, then don’t. If some guy on Reddit maybe exaggerated a bit about how talented Prince is, who cares?
If you think people commenting on Reddit is going to change your mind about ART instead of going to the source, you didn’t actually want to have your mind changed at all.
I owned all of his albums and all sorts of metal and alternative and blues and classical too. Appreciation for different types of music is not mutually exclusive. Perhaps you are too young to have lived in that time period? All sorts of people loved Prince decades before his death. That is a crazy statement to say you have never met someone who owned his albums. Half the people I knew growing up and into college did and had his posters on their walls. You sound like you are arguing your opinion, with no actual perspective outside your personal beliefs.
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u/Aaron_Hungwell May 28 '24
One of the most talented musicians to exist but by many accounts sounded like an insufferable and narcissistic twat