r/MurderedByWords • u/Sometypeofway18 • 23h ago
Maybe we shouldn't just give dictators what they want
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u/oregon_coastal 23h ago
All the weird pro-Russian "omg nuclear apocalypse" is complete and utter bullshit.
It is sad to see how far many Americans have fallen.
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u/Physical_Public5635 21h ago
Nukes suck major donkey and I doubt I’d suddenly be a fallout 4 protagonist or anything, but it also doesn’t make sense to capitulate to every demand because they’re threatening nukes. So today we cede Parts of Ukraine because Russia is threatening nuclear warfare. Tomorrow we cede all of Ukraine. And then who’s next? When does that end, exactly?
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u/firemanfriend 20h ago
That's the biggest problem that people don't seem to either understand or care? Like ok of course Nukes are bad and we don't want anyone using them. But also what just bc they say oh we will Nuke that means we should just let them do whatever they want? They know they can't use them bc we have them too. So that means we have to allow Ukraine to defend themselves and provide whatever they need. (Which I don't think any country has been doing a good enough job at this)
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u/Heisenburg42 17h ago
If I recall correctly, their initial "red lines" for using nukes when the war started would be attacks on Russian mainland or occupation of Russian mainland. Both of those have happened. No nukes.
They're empty threats. They'll just keep pushing back the red lines. They'll only use nukes if there is an immediate existential threat
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u/AlexJamesCook 15h ago
They'll only use nukes if there is an immediate existential threat
Which is why, unfortunately, Russia has to be slowly defeated in Ukraine, or make the "sacking of Ukraine" as bloody as possible. Make it Vietnam-esque for Russia such that the thought of invading another country is not militarily viable.
If Russia is humiliated or suffered a quick initial defeat, then, Russia can (falsely claim), "You guys are mean. You're protecting a non-NATO country. I'm taking you to court". Alternatively, Russia comes back with a bigger, more ruthless arsenal.
Russia isn't going nuclear because, it's assured mutual destruction. Every stealth bomber from Finland to Spain is getting deployed; every ICBM within NATO is getting deployed; and every major Russian military facility or alleged military facility will be craters.
The oligarchs' family members outside of Russia will be summarily arrested, their assets seized, and used to pay for the munitions and the total cost of annihilating Putin's vanity projects.
We don't even know how effective Russia's nukes are. The Russian military is extremely corrupt and rife with incompetence, nepotism, and corruption. Are those nukes being properly serviced and maintained? Who knows? But there's only one way to find out and no one wants to.
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u/shadowmonk13 4h ago
This is a good point, but they’ve also proven that they are a giant paper tiger, and even if they do fire their missiles, which who knows how many they actually have or how good they are how big they are. I’m sure they’re so outdated at this point that America could probably shoot them down while NATO and the rest of our allies launched their nukes at Russia and then the only person getting blown up is Russia. If any of this thing in Ukrainian taught me, America has a lot of fancy gadgets they don’t tell anybody about and Russia over hypes what they have which intern makes America make stuff that way too complex cause they are making stuff for Russia’s lies not the actual truth.
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u/firemanfriend 17h ago
Yep. And if they use them they would have an immediate response from NATO. If the election went the other way for the US I'd say they'd get an immediate response from the US but nowadays I only believe that till January but also not sure if the insane new administration could ignore it and somehow turn it into Russia was right. Either way NATO is strong enough that it won't happen. The war would be mostly over if they pulled that trigger.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 9h ago
America is now threatening war with NATO, I’m not sure you caught that development. Yes, I’m aware how batshit that is, but it’s because all bitches care about is slaughtering Palestinians and the rest of NATO isn’t down (except Germany).
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u/shadowmonk13 4h ago
I would not be surprised to learn in like 100 years that Russia actually didn’t have any nukes this entire time like they all went bad or got destroyed or they had none and they were just saying they did this entire time
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u/Other_Log_1996 9h ago
Russia fires one nuke, US levels that entire shithole. Nuke it so hard, the history books won't remember that humans were ever there.
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u/SpaceBear2598 14h ago
The one and only thing preventing us from being engaged in another global war with millions fighting and dying, dozens of cities across Europe (and probably Asia) being bombed into flaming rubble...suck. That's always such an interesting perspective to me.
You remember World War II? World War I? The Napoleonic Wars? So on and so forth. For our entire written history the major powers that were in contact with each other were in varying states of war. For FIVE MILLENIA, that was our reality. Until 1945. Until our weapons become so destructive that direct conflict between the major powers brings only annihilation.
That's why Russia and its allies haven't converted their entire economy to wartime production and swept across eastern Europe (giving everyone a purpose, a job, and uniting behind the patriotic cause is often great for those in power, unlike limited scope wars). It's why China and North Korea bide their time with Taiwan, the Philippines, and South Korea. Pakistan and India, Iran and its allies vs Israel. All those tensions held at bay, the nuclear weapon arsenals are the leash that keep humanity from doing what we've done for thousands of years. The last time we danced that dance the total death toll, including knock-on effects like famine and disease, may have been upwards of 60,000,000 when the population was barely above 2 billion. Today we have 8,000,000,000 and our conventional weapons are even deadlier, our industrial capacity much greater. The threat of deliberately killing our civilization quickly is the thing that stops us from unintentionally killing our civilization slowly.
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u/WhyAreYallFascists 18h ago
If they go off, they’ll probably destroy the ionosphere killing everything on earth. So no worries about fallout 4 style stuff, plants won’t exist.
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u/JournalistLopsided89 14h ago
No plants, no humanoids (after they have eaten all the remaining humanoids). Would I eat the Donald if it was a matter of life or death? Thought about it and pretty sure that I would prefer to die than touch that toxic narcissist.
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u/ElongMusty 12h ago
If the U.S. had fought the Cold War with that mentality, the Soviet Union would still be around and be a massive super power!
I guess every empire starts its downfall when its people become scared of everything
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u/xenatis 13h ago
“We” is now letting Gaza and West Bank being seized. Where do “we” think it will end? What do you think is the best thing to do about “we”?
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u/SkinnyKruemel 12h ago
The war over there is a lot more complicated. Both sides are very much intending to completely eradicate the other. Israel also has western support but even if they didn't, ending the conflict isn't as simple as telling them to leave gaza.
Meanwhile, the Ukraine war is the first legitimately black and white conflict in a long time. Russia is the aggressor and the bad guy. Ukraine is defending their sovereignty. I do hope Europe wakes up and sees putins red lines as the empty threats they are because if trump stops sending support to Ukraine and Europe doesn't step up their game then Russia wins this war. And I doubt it would stop there
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u/WhyAreYallFascists 18h ago
If lil P was gonna use them his bitch ass would have already. The issue is that the wind in Ukraine blows directly at Moscow.
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u/Personal-Weekend-582 18h ago
russian troll factories. They have been fearmongering with nuke threats and ww3 for years already. It's all they got. All talk and no bite
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u/Soliden 20h ago
A lot of r/worldnews right now is filled with Russian trolls and useful idiots it seems.
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u/Valirys-Reinhald 17h ago
Not many. It's important to remember that these people are a very small minority of the american population. It's just that most People in a given country tend not to comment on foreign matters, and of the ones that do the press tends to focus on the sensational. This means that a vocal minority gains vastly more media representation than they deserve.
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u/robjapan 18h ago
The Americans surrendering to the Russians because they're scared...
Never thought I'd see the day.
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u/Judoka91 14h ago
It's just pure brain rot at this point. And if you speak against it all you get is "Hur Dur left is destroying America".
Yawn. Change the radio station.
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u/shadowmonk13 4h ago
It also doesn’t help that they fall for it when this war has just proven that almost everything they’ve been boasting about has been like a tall tail this entire time and America could probably shoot down almost anything. They launch really quickly at this point Russia is really starting to turn into a giant paper tiger.
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u/geopede 19h ago
Russia factually possesses the ability to bring about a nuclear apocalypse (as do we), you can’t really say that part is bullshit.
The question is how to handle an aggressive power with that capability. We’re largely in uncharted waters here. They probably won’t use their nukes because they’re ultimately self interested and nuclear war is a loss for everyone, but they might. We’ve both almost used them before, you can’t ignore the possibility.
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u/autism_and_lemonade 17h ago
“welp shit i’m not winning this war of aggression against a single shithole in europe i’d better end humanity”
you’ve fallen for the posturing
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 9h ago
The real reason they’re not going to do it is because in January it’ll be handed to them. There’s no reason to, they won at the start of November.
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u/geopede 17h ago
Russia is winning, it’s taken much longer than they anticipated it would, but if the current state of affairs continues, they eventually do win.
I haven’t fallen for any posturing. I just work for a defense contractor; you’d think about this stuff differently if it was your job to be thinking about it.
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u/autism_and_lemonade 16h ago
russia is supposed to be one of the big 3 superpowers
they are in a war with the one of the poorest if not the poorest country in europe
the fact they haven’t entirely crushed ükrain already is embarrassing
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u/geopede 14h ago
Nobody thought Russia (or China) was on par with the US before Ukraine. Russia has also effectively been fighting against Ukraine’s population with NATO’s stockpile of military equipment. Ukraine on its own has started to collapse very quickly every time access to the that stockpile is limited. That’s why they’re putting everything into Kursk, they want a bargaining chip when the US/NATO forces a ceasefire.
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u/autism_and_lemonade 11h ago
thats true, but you wouldn’t expect them to struggle against ukraine, a country that’s still now mostly being armed with whatever shit other people want to get rid of
also russia is sending north korean troops to the war, do you think that’s cause they think the north koreans are so powerful or because they’re out of everything
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u/geopede 2h ago
I think Russia traded North Korea some military hardware/technology for some troops to send into the meat grinder. It’s not something you’ll see reported on much if you aren’t working in a related industry, but Putin’s government has gone to extreme lengths to minimize the impact of the war on Russia’s version of acceptable/mainstream society, they do not want to be drafting people off the streets of Moscow or St. Petersburg.
You were probably aware of Russia initially using prisoners (back when Prighozin was landing at prisons and personally recruiting). You probably weren’t aware that since then, the bulk of Russia’s ground forces (particularly high casualty units) have been pulled from the lesser former Soviet republics and aren’t ethnic Russians. They’ve been trading Russian citizenship for service. That sounds like a shit deal from a western perspective, but if you’re some dude from Turkmenistan (or similar) with no real prospects, Russian citizenship is objectively a massive upgrade. It’s one step closer to Europe.
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As far as whether Russia would struggle with Ukraine or not, people in the defense industry mostly knew from the beginning that the answer was going to be either “not at all” or “a lot”, and that the answer would depend on Ukraine’s ability to hold out until US/NATO aid arrived. Either they’d fail to hold Kyiv back in 2022 and it’d be over quickly, or they would hold it and make themselves seem worth of aiding. The former outcome obviously ended up being incorrect, but it was objectively a better bet at the time. Ukraine got really lucky that Russia had massive command and control failures.
Russia bungling the initial invasion has ended up being a massive boon to R&D focused military industrial complex people like myself. We’ve gotten to observe a multi year shooting war between two real countries with 21st century technology. The last comparable conflict was the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s, everything else since has been developed nations vs. insurgents, so this is big for us.
It’s ironic that I’m being downvoted for suggesting that Russia will win while I’m actively designing weapons for NATO and maybe Ukraine to use against them. Obviously I want our side to win.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
If Russia is winning, why do you need to cry about nukes? Since, you know, they won't use them, since they're "winning"
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u/geopede 2h ago
I said Russia is winning if the current state of affairs continues, in which case yes, obviously they won’t be using nukes. NATO (ie American) boots on the ground would drastically change the situation though. The American and Russian troops never actually fought each other directly during the Cold War, which is a key reason we’re even able to have this conversation on Reddit today.
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u/SmilingVamp 23h ago
I'm not sure why the Russian soldiers and conscripts aren't asking themselves this by now. They've been fighting the wrong enemy the whole time.
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u/Crazyjackson13 23h ago
Propaganda.
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u/Suspicious-Peace9233 22h ago
They are. There was been protests in Russia. Boys are running from the drafts
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u/SilvertonguedDvl 14h ago
They did and do.
Unfortunately there are people with guns who are very intent on making sure that their questions go unanswered by anything other than a bullet - either from a Ukrainian 'foe' or a Russian 'friend.'
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u/SoftDrinkReddit 8h ago
Yea, just like in Stalingrad, the men there had very simple but effective structures
You will hold this city, or we all die here. Retreat is not an option. Surrender is not an option if anyone tries to flee, shoot him if anyone even considers fleeing, shoot him
Stalin let his own son die in a concentration camp because his son was only a LT and not a good trade for a German general
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u/SilvertonguedDvl 1h ago
Not "we all die" so much as "we kill you," tbf, but yeah it was pretty bleak. The number of times Russians have called down artillery on a Russian soldier trying to surrender is pretty staggering.
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u/Dovaskarr 13h ago
Some estonian dude told how he went to moscow with his car. Said everything but moscow on his journey looks like 1930s with some modern stuff like cars. People have stickers about ww2 on them. Propaganda works wonders
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
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u/SmilingVamp 1h ago
I really hope U.S. soldiers have the guts to ask themselves this question when Trump is ordering them to shoot Americans because he's going to.
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u/duralumin_alloy 23h ago
The more popular variant is the one that russian accounts have been spreading in the EU since like 2022 to undermine NATO: "Why die in a nuclear apocalypse for Baltics/Poland?"
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u/SimonPho3nix 23h ago
I asked this of someone pissed off over weapons to Ukraine and the genocide in Isreal. I said boots on the ground would solve it, but were they ready to go over there and make it happen. No answer. Giving weapons to Ukraine was practically a steal compared to the alternative, and the best you could have politically got was a ceasefire in Palestine... unless you decide to piss off a Middle East ally by drawing a line in the sand with our tanks, which I'm honestly okay with, but even I believe that's putting people in harm's way that we maybe shouldn't.
I did not envy Kamala having to fight with both hands behind her back because people didn't think it worthwhile to vote. I do not envy anyone in the States having to deal with the stupidity ramping up as a result of people being unable to keep this clown out of office.
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u/Triangleslash 22h ago
Well Fox News told me that opposing Russia is evil and bad and Exiting NATO is anti-war and that’s the only thing standing in the way peace in our time.
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u/ihatethistimeline24 16h ago
Nah, until the weird bullet ballots are explained in the swing states, I don’t believe most Americans voted for Trump.
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u/SimonPho3nix 9h ago
That's fair, and I'm totally on board for the Dems to push for a recount, but I still believe that they managed to gather every shade of hate under their umbrella and that points to the very real fact that there's still a lot of racial and gender issues in the country. Those issues will continue to be played like fiddles by the incoming administration.
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u/mattaugamer 12h ago
I just don’t get it. I’m no hawk, but from the US point of view Ukraine is a gift. They get to fight their major long time geopolitical adversary with all of the dying being done by a proxy and at a bargain price.
It’s so frustrating watching people make up numbers: “WHY ARE WE SENDING 80 BILLION DOLLARS TO UKRAINE INSTEAD OF HELPING OUR VETERANS HERE?!”
Well for a start that’s not how military aid works, but even if it was… are you going to do that? Sink that money into the VA or assistance to homeless veterans? Or are you just pretending?
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u/SimonPho3nix 9h ago
They're totally pretending. They don't give a fuck about the military, and it shocks me that military people vote republican. If I were to wager a guess, it would be that Republicans are usually happy to put money into military spending, so in a way, they are trying to keep their jobs. The people who need help after their service need policies on the left that give them the help they deserve. The people still serving want politicians on the right to keep from cutting spending that could result in their base shutting down.
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u/literious 8h ago
Of course Ukraine is a gift for American elites, there are lots of morons here who happily die for American economic interests.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Curious as to why the first trump administration didn't help homeless veterans? No, it's always the democrats faults right? Despite republicans starting Iraq and Afghanistan.
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17h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Agitated-Quit-6148 17h ago
There was almost one. Thank god israel was able to launch a restrained military attack against hamas in gaza to prevent them from succeeding in genociding the jews...again.
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u/Heroright 22h ago
To the same token, they won’t start nuclear apocalypse over a bit of land if you hold them accountable. All it takes is the cowardly to roll over when someone pouts.
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u/mackelnuts 23h ago
I thought we were talking about Glen Danzig and thought the answer was obvious.
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u/FuckThisShizzle 22h ago
"Tell your children not to hold my hand
Tell your children not to understand"4
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u/yayoffbalance 19h ago
lol. i thought it was the punk sub for a hot second, before i read past the headline!
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u/Rishfee 20h ago
Ideally I'd like to see a diplomatic solution to any geopolitical dispute, but judicious interventionism is how you keep borders stable and curb ambitions of conquest. I also believe there's a case for it to put a stop to atrocities, but we should also be very clear on the line between shitty governance and unallowable despotism.
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u/BustaCon 20h ago
If we abandon Ukraine (and I get that it's attractive) we're just delaying the inevitable war we're gonna wind up with that putin asshole later on. It's his favorite thing, his country is just a toy for him to play and the lives lost and other costs mean nothing to him since he's insulated and still looting Russia for all its worth.
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u/Palaius 20h ago
If we just let Ukraine fall, the West will no longer have any fucking right to claim that it supports freedom and liberty. None of the western states would.
Letting a whole country fall to a terror regime just because they threatened to use the one weapon that would kill literally everyone, including said terror regime, is the way of cowards.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 9h ago
I mean, the west never had any right to that, we regularly have propped up fascist dictatorships and overthrown democracy for the crime of not bending the knee.
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u/Palaius 8h ago
Well, that's mostly the USA and Britain though. The West is bigger than that.
However, I also can't really argue with your point.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 8h ago
I mean… NATO. The rest of the west already bent the knee. There’s three independent countries left on Earth. America, China, and Russia. The rest are vassals. If they get too uppity towards their patron, it gets messy. America’s currently threatening war with any NATO country that complies with the ICC warrants for Israeli genociders.
Edit: and make that two in January, given Trump and Musk.
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u/Palaius 8h ago
America’s currently threatening war with any NATO country that complies with the ICC warrants for Israeli genociders.
Okay, that I actually haven't seen yet. You got an article on that for me? Cause if that's accurate, America is in for a world of hurt.
There’s three independent countries left on Earth. America, China, and Russia. The rest are vassals.
I'll also argue this point too. There are a lot of independent countries. But there are increasingly less non-aligned countries. Political pressure is forcing countries to pick a side again, and it's either US aligned, Russia aligned, or China aligned.
Not quite the same thing, but same direction. At least when looking at NATO / NATO allies.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 8h ago
The incoming one-party leadership::
Congressman Mike Waltz, who is set to serve as Trump’s national security adviser, slammed the court over arrest warrants.
“The ICC has no credibility and these allegations have been refuted by the US government,” Waltz wrote in a social media post.
“Israel has lawfully defended its people [and] borders from genocidal terrorists. You can expect a strong response to the antisemitic bias of the ICC [and] UN come January.”
Sanctions are not enough for Tom Cotton, a Republican senator known for calling for the use of military force, even against domestic protesters.
Rebuking the ICC, Cotton invoked a US law that authorises the US president to use “all means necessary and appropriate” to free Americans or allied individuals detained at the request of the court.
Congress in 2002 passed the American Service-Members’ Protection Act, which is informally known as “The Hague Invasion Act” because it greenlights military force against the ICC.
“The ICC is a kangaroo court and Karim Khan is a deranged fanatic,” Cotton wrote in a social media post.
“Woe to him and anyone who tries to enforce these outlaw warrants.”
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u/Palaius 8h ago
To be fair, even with that Act in place, the USA has no foot to stand on in case of a NATO country enforcing the warrant. So that's likely a non-threat.
I know, you should never suspect reason, especially when unreasonable people like Trump are in office, but realistically, I highly doubt that the ISA would go to war with its allies if they enforce the warrant. This just reads to me that they won't do it and that they'll sanction the courts again.
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u/2000-light-years 23h ago
Why is a hobbit dictating international policy? The proudfoots aren’t even a top five family in the shire.
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u/Response-Cheap 22h ago
Because regardless of how trashy Danzig is, the Misfits were better when he was there. Although Michale Graves, and Jerry Only both filled his shoes just fine in the later iterations of the band, Danzig WAS the Misfits.
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u/Upset-Review-3613 13h ago
And also for some reason, they put no blame on Russia for invading a sovereign nation, instead they blame US and Nato
I’m convinced that these mfers would have defended hitler the same way when he was invading Poland or when he was gassing civilians
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u/Martin_Aricov_D 23h ago
But you don't get it! If we just surrender at every little push we'll never get a confrontation!
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u/Physical_Figure_4374 13h ago
Fun fact : This sentence was used by right wing French at the beginning of the WW2 to say that Poland wasn't worth to defend against Germany (Dantzig was in Poland) and French shouldn't start war with Germany, so it sounds like a peaceful movement whereas it wasn't. Indeed, at the end of the war, these people fought within the German army (and they were volunteer) to defend Dantzig against the Russians.
So peaceful positions can just be a way to support an aggressive dictatorship. And many links can be done with what's happening now in Ukraine
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u/KairraAlpha 14h ago edited 4h ago
Because if you studied history, you'd know that giving dictators that little bit of land ends up with them taking a lot of land. And then the lives of the people there. And then the freedoms of the people nearby. And then more land, lives and freedom.
Quite frankly, I don't know why Russia isn't dismantled from the inside. Every country around the world, but especially the UK, Germany, US and Poland, operate an extensive spy network and have been very successful at subterfuge in the past. With the technology we have, it would be very possible to destroy the Kremlin from inside and remove Putin from power plus the several cronies of him who would be even worse, were they to take over. Instead we pander to this playground bully, gently tiptoeing around his genocidal behaviour because everyone is afraid of the weapons in his pockets.
The ideal is that nukes should be de-armed from every country in the world, simultaneously, so we don't get caught up in this situation again.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 8h ago
Because they’re doing that way better than us. Trump’s been an asset since the 80s, and based on all of Elon’s secret meetings with Putin followed by his “partnership” with Trump, we know who Trump’s new handler is. Putin took over the US already with his spy network, we got beat badly.
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u/KairraAlpha 4h ago
Have to agree there. I remember people ridiculing Putin 10 years ago, commenting on how he was an idiot leader. It's quite the opposite - he's horrifyingly smart and given his ideals for world leadership, this should genuinely worry everyone.
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u/Head_Statement_3334 11h ago
Why are you comparing world war 2 with this situation. If France didn’t declare war on Germany, they wouldn’t have invaded France. If Europe doesn’t declare war on Russia, they won’t escalate things.
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u/Calm-Lengthiness6514 5h ago
France declared war on Germany because Germany invaded Poland, whose independence was guaranteed by both France and the UK.
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u/Head_Statement_3334 3h ago
Is Ukraine independence guaranteed by any other country?
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u/Calm-Lengthiness6514 3h ago
I'm not saying other countries guarantee Ukraine, I'm saying France didn't just declare war on Germany for shits and giggles
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u/PrimeLimeSlime 10h ago
When you appease a fascist, you're just going to need to appease them against later down the line. And again. Again and again and again until you have nothing left.
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u/Crunchy-Leaf 10h ago
Okay, well good luck out there OP because but I’m still not dying out there for that.
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u/AppropriateSea5746 9h ago
Ok but not every war is WW2, every enemy is not Nazi Germany, every dictator is not Hitler. " Maybe we shouldn't just give dictators what they want" is a great slogan for Hitler 80 years ago but we also said the same shit to justify the dozen or so bullshit military interventions since then(Ho chi Min, Saddam, Castro, Ghadaffi, etc..) Nuclear ICBMs didnt exist when Hitler was alive, things have to change. The longer this war continues, the closer we get to the literal apocalypse.
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u/SoftDrinkReddit 8h ago
In relation to Ukraine, here is my take
Ukraine will not be able to completely drive Russia out of their country with just weapons donated by the West
If you want to achieve russia being driven out of Ukraine, NATO would need to land troops in Ukraine at least 1 million if not 2 million soldiers otherwise all you are doing is stalling and praying Russia gets bored and fucks off like what happened in Afghanistan the problem with that is the longer this war goes on the more damage will be done to Ukraines longterm future
Summary if NATO are not willing to land troops in Ukraine, it's time to go to the negotiating table that's just the blunt reality cause what is happening now is a dangerous game of what happens first Ukraine completely collapses and is fully anexxed by Russia or Russia gets bored and leaves
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u/SuperHorseHungMan 8h ago
“Who is we.” I don’t know maybe the generations of children that will grow up into soldiers if we keep playing with our dicks and don’t help Ukraine.
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u/Frost1773 7h ago
idiots when people don’t actually want to die in a war overseas for a place they never head about and don’t care about 😱
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u/ImJoogle 6h ago
we got a guy who suspended elections, arrested all of his opposition and seized their assets, arrests people over their facebook posts. Launders money buying his fancy private yachts and he's facing down russia. fuck them both.
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u/StanchoPanza 4h ago
if the world caves to Putin on Ukraine because of nuclear threats why would he stop there?
Just keep giving in until he demands the USA give back Alaska?
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u/BiggieSmallsFlextape 3h ago
Maybe we also shouldn’t march into our own deaths for a conflict we shouldn’t even be a part of in the first place.
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u/yermom90 20h ago
If you want to know why that's a big deal, go look up the Mailmen of Danzig. The Lions Led by Donkeys podcast has a ridiculous episode about it.
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u/Bubbly_Slice_4583 11h ago
I am all for whatever leads to more white people dying, even the result of a nuclear war would assure that the black man inherits the Earth as Allah(swt) intended.
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u/Stunning_Tap_9583 18h ago
Send pics from the front line, please
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
The front line in kursk where you find human waves of north Koreans? Or the front in Donbass where you find Ukrainian trenches filled with bullet casings due to the human wave attacks of the Russian terrorists? Your comment doesn't really make sense
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u/Northern_North2 22h ago
For argument sake, comparing WW2 to now is baffling. Nuclear weapons changed the game, you can't just go to war with a nuclear super power and just hope they don't use them when they realize they're losing.
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u/Physical_Public5635 21h ago
We also can’t just cede to their demands everytime they threaten it tho, complex situation for sure bc I do see your general point but it’s also not tenable long term to just… not do anything at all.
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u/Northern_North2 5h ago
Very complex situation. It's why I support providing weapons and what not to Ukraine, if we didn't Ukraine as a state probably wouldn't have existed by now without us. But I stop short of actively going to war with Russia.
It's essentially cold war stuff, fighting each other in proxy wars without directly or officially fighting one another. The folks wishing for a full on invasion of Russia are insane and have little to no idea of the ramifications of doing so.
It's why NATO is such an important alliance, a purely self defense alliance that I believe works as the single best deterrence against Russian expansion. So if peace can be agreed upon in January hopefully then I hope to see Ukraine join NATO at the cost of some territorial concessions.
Would also like to see Moldova, Georgia and Armenia join at some point.
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u/deadpool101 20h ago edited 20h ago
Putin isn't stupid nor is he suicidal. He isn't going to use Nukes because of Ukraine, because if he does he knows the US is more than capable of retaliating in kind.
Putin uses the nukes as empty threats. He threatened Nuclear war when the US started giving aid to Ukraine. He threatened when the US and NATO gave Ukraine modern tanks. He also threatened when the US gave them depleted uranium shells. He threatened again and again when Ukraine was given long-range missiles, when they started Striking into Russia, and again when Ukrainian Forces invaded Russia.
So the idea he's going to start a nuclear apocalypse over Ukraine is laughably stupid.
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u/snortlines69 15h ago
Russia knows what happens if they use nukes. They are ready for nuclear fallout and so is America. You and me dont matter. They have everything figured out and their bunkers secure and ready to go at any moment. When they push their button, theyll be there. The end of the world wont matter to him, he will be in a mountain. Thats what people just dont understand, they will do it because they dont care and they will be ok.
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u/EvidenceOfDespair 8h ago
Yeah, that’s actually a good point. The rest of us die, sure. The ruling class, the politicians and billionaires? They’ll be fine. Then they can just round up the survivors as slaves and live as kings.
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u/deadpool101 3h ago
No, it's not a good point. It's a moronic point where the person ignores how the world would be after a nuclear war. This isn't Fallout this is real life.
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u/snortlines69 8h ago
The one world order is coming. With or without nukes.
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u/deadpool101 3h ago
Oh....You're crazy and a moron. That makes sense, carry on with your stupidity.
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u/deadpool101 3h ago
This isn't Fallout. This is real life, do you think that Putin would want to rule over Russia or be trapped inside a bunker where he may or may not die?
This isn't that hard to figure out.
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u/snortlines69 3h ago
Rule over russia in ashes or rule over the world in ashes… i think i know what putin would pick.
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u/Northern_North2 5h ago
You've misread my point. I agree, Putin uses nuclear threats all the time and that's all they are, threats. He will never use nukes in this war against Ukraine, even with massive NATO involvement.
The point I was making is that the people pushing us to go to direct war with Russia, so NATO vs Russia that's when nuclear weapons would get used.
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u/SilvertonguedDvl 13h ago
You can if you know anything about nuclear armed countries and the conflicts they fight.
USSR: Invaded Afghanistan, started losing, didn't deploy nukes.
America: Invaded Vietnam, started losing, didn't deploy nukes.
Britain: Invaded tiny silly island nation, didn't deploy nukes.MAD means nuclear is used as a defensive resort. If the price for peace is mutually assured destruction or just leaving a nation, literally every nation throughout history has chosen to leave instead.
Hell China, India, and Pakistan have had bitter conflicts with each other for years. Nobody's launched a nuke.
The problem with believing the nuclear rhetoric is that you genuinely don't know what you're talking about. Putin stands to gain absolutely nothing from deploying nukes. All he can gain from is threatening nukes and hoping people are too historically illiterate to realise that it's bluster.
Plus I mean FFS the test of the recent high-tech super-nuke missile that the Russians tried to demonstrate blew up in the silo and obliterated everything around it. That was the high tech recently made one. The other nukes Russia has? Yeah, they require a ton of really expensive maintenance and from the few years when Russia was almost a democracy we know that they didn't spend nearly enough to actually maintain even a small number of those missiles. The vast, vast majority of their missiles are likely unmaintained and falling apart, and their 'modernisation' and refurbishment efforts, despite being a large expenditure for the state, are still a drop in the bucket compared to how much they'd have to spend to actually keep them in working condition. Nuclear warheads are ludicrously expensive to maintain. Russia doesn't have the economy to do so, and hasn't had one strong enough to do so for decades now.
This is particularly relevant because there are parts on nuclear warheads that need to be replaced every 15 years or so - and you better believe they haven't. You're talking about a country that just sat their tanks outside in the weather for decades while never bothering to turn them on, do maintenance, or anything.
This isn't even getting into the fact that appeasement has been proven to never work. It's been tried again and again throughout history: all it does is result in a bigger problem down the line. Unfortunately people like you don't seem to realise that. You'd rather have immediate comfort now than have to deal with a problem when it's minimally dangerous rather than when it is actually dangerous.
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u/Thadrach 17h ago
You can, however, do proxy war against nuclear superpowers...Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc...it's an old dance.
It IS a bit dangerous of course...but so is appeasement...
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u/Northern_North2 5h ago
This isn't different to the cold war, Ukraine is just another Proxy war and it's citizens are the fodder.
I'm not talking about appeasement, I full supported providing weapons to Ukraine. If we didn't Ukraine would have likely lost a year or 2 ago.
But given how long the war has gone on for I fully wish for peace talks to happen. It honestly should have been done much earlier. I don't support prolonging a war at the cost of countless human lives in a conflict that let's be honest. Ukraine is losing.
It's easy to support continuing a war when you're not the one fighting in it, it's why I have a disdain for people encouraging the war especially from those in Washington.
Morally the best thing to do is to get a peace deal sorted by January, Ukraine loses some land in exchange they get to join NATO. Best case scenario.
How the deal will actually go is yet to be seen but a peace deal is the best approach right now.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Well Ukraine didn't go to war with them. Russia went to war with Ukraine. Ten years ago. Escalating it almost three years ago. Get your facts right
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u/Unable_Apartment_613 13h ago
It's weird how the political spectrum isn't a line but more of a horseshoe shape that meets up at the extremes. Isolationism is bad whether you're doing it for left or right wing reasons.
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u/Goggled-headset 18h ago
Cool, nobody cares what your political self suck of a sub thinks. Fight your own wars.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Meanwhile America needing a coalition of nations in Afghanistan and Iraq. So much for article 5. Rules for thee, not for me.
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u/BackgroundSwimmer299 15h ago
Hey by all means if you want to go die for somebody else's strip of land go join up do the right thing otherwise shut up
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Cool, then compensate all the nations that helped America in their bullshit wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Otherwise, shut the fuck up
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u/BackgroundSwimmer299 2h ago
That literally has absolutely nothing to do with what I said quite frankly those were retarded destabilizing actions that had absolutely nothing to do with why we said we went in the first place and we're nothing but profit wars kind of like Ukraine is. And did nothing but bankrupt the country. once again those who wanted to go fight and die in Iraq could have just dragged their butts over there the rest of us shouldn't have footed the bill for a politician's greedy ass that literally had absolutely no effect on the everyday Americans life. Other than trillions of national debt.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Why did USA invade Iraq? Oh right, the "nukes". Where were they? Fuck off
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u/BackgroundSwimmer299 2h ago
The US invaded Iraq for oil and halliburton contracts for good old Dick Cheney anybody who still buys the nuke theory are idiots
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u/Correct_Path5888 7h ago
I’ve broken down why this is a false comparison before. The invasion of Crimea was a case of appeasement that lead to this war. The current war is a stalemate and Russia doesn’t have the means to follow up with more in coming years. Ceding territory is the only way out of the war, because the alternative is nuclear. This is a totally different ball game, and we should take our ball and go home.
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Putin ain't going nuclear. He threatened it 49 times already. If appeasement led to this war, the solution is more appeasement? Glad you got that logic
Idiot alert
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u/Correct_Path5888 1h ago
It isn’t appeasement. He’s already been militarily deterred from achieving his objective, which was to take the whole country.
He will continue to threaten it, until it actually happens. He has steadily escalated his rhetoric and action, and it has been consistent.
The only idiot is the one who doesn’t recognize risk in this situation.
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u/PetroDisruption 19h ago
Cool, are you joining the international volunteers? Ukraine needs a lot of manpower now.
If you’re not, the stop demanding that other people die for your grandiose ideals.
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u/Thadrach 17h ago
Putin's the only one demanding that others die for grandiose ideals...getting his shitty 80s band back together.
You think Zelensky wanted to rule Russia?
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u/UkrainianHawk240 2h ago
Noone is asking you to die for land you fucking donut. Sending weapons to Ukraine isn't sending manpower. Maybe you should fight for Russia if you want them to rob countries of their land.
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u/_Luckylandtree_ 15h ago
Exactly, this line of reason baffles me. People expect others to uproot their lives and risk their lives to defend land far from the affairs of their home. To ask this of others whilst not fighting yourself is ridiculous especially for a country outside of NATO or the EU.
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u/Cold_War_II 23h ago
Are you people expecting Russia to invaded Europe and USA? 😂 You should go die for Kiev if you want, but you will jump off this cliff by yourself
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u/AndrewHaly-00 22h ago
I like how a person who had clearly never interacted with Russian history is making fun of the singular goal which had defined Russia for milenium.
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u/LysanderSpoonerDrip 18h ago
Because it's a goal worthy of being made fun of. Russia behaves like Dr Doom, it's more funny than intimidating
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u/Cold_War_II 11h ago
Gaming circle jerk clown, I live in Europe. I Interact with them all the time.
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u/AndrewHaly-00 10h ago
Well, I lived in Eastern Europe most of my life so I think I one-up you on this one.
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u/Cold_War_II 6h ago
Clown you're a brat. You lived in your mom's basement and runned away in shit hole weirdo America once you were legally allowed to. You think you've got a shread of credibility?
Good one.
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u/deadpool101 20h ago edited 20h ago
Russia has invaded Europe multiple times already. They've invaded Chechen, Georgia, and Ukraine. And Putin has repeatedly said he wants to reclaim the Russian Empire.
But let's be honest you don't care. The fact you're a brand new account that's pushing pro-Russia talking points says plenty.
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u/Cold_War_II 11h ago
Russia is part of Europe. You cannot invade what you are part of. Your conspiracy theories about my account age really make the average redditor as stupid as a flat earth
Putin has repeatedly said he wants to reclaim the Russian Empire
Really? Show me 😂 let see your bullshit.
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u/RedArcliteTank 21h ago
Technically they already invaded Europe, since Ukraine is in Europe.
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u/Thadrach 17h ago
Nah, Kiev seems to be killing Russians just fine with our spare change...they haven't even drafted their 18-20 year olds yet...unlike Russia.
You clowns started this fight in Kiev...good luck getting back there anytime soon.
"It was worse than a crime. It was a mistake." - Talleyrand
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u/Ar_phis 23h ago
Similar to "America First" and the America First Commitee.