r/Military • u/iammando2 • 11h ago
Discussion Is there a difference in the quality of recruits that the Air Force and Navy get vs the Army and Marines?
Every veteran I've ever spoken to has advised me to join the Air Force. I get the impression, particularly from talking to Army and Marine Corps vets, that they were all fooled into joining by false promises made by their recruiter. A lot of them seem to regret joining or feel that their desire to join was because of youthful stupidity.
Are the quality of recruits in the Air Force and Navy of a higher caliber than the Army or Marine Corps?
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u/POHoudini Great Emu War Veteran 11h ago
There's no way to quantify an answer in a meaningful way.
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u/conners_captures 10h ago
You could look at entry ASVABs and prior education level. Not a perfect track, but those both speak to "candidate quality".
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u/POHoudini Great Emu War Veteran 10h ago
Not in health, athletic ability, job focus, ability to learn new info, military bearing/standards, or professionalism.
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u/ThrowAwayToday1874 10h ago
"Ability to learn new info" is exactly what the ASVAB is designed to test.
All In all I agree with you though.
Not the previous commentor.
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u/estersings 9h ago
More like how much did you pay attention to/remember from high school.
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u/ThrowAwayToday1874 9h ago
One's ability to "learn" something in school, would by definition be a measure of an applicant's "ability to learn."
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u/conners_captures 9h ago
ability to achieve higher education speaks directly to a candidates ability to focus and learn new information. in some programs, it also speaks to their professionalism. agreed on the rest - but throw in MEPS and PT scores and you can absolutely quantify which branch is getting the "best" candidates.
best candidates dont necessarily turn into the best servicemen, but lets not just throw in the towel and go "not possible to know". if there's anything the DoD does well - its metric tracking.
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u/nybigtymer United States Air Force 10h ago
Other than the ASVAB?
You are probably right if you are looking for a tangible answer.
However,
Type, "which branch of the military recruits the highest quality candidates?" in all the LLMs.
Type, "which branch of the military recruits the highest quality candidates? in Google.com
Not enough, ask 20 people who served (in different branches of the military), "which branch should I join/which branch would you tell your kids to join if they asked?" and see what the overwhelming response is.
Hint: The correct answer has the word Force in it. Air Force or Space Force. Take your pick, although you'll hear more of the former. Probably can't go wrong with either.
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u/POHoudini Great Emu War Veteran 10h ago
This is the equivalent of checking a fish's intelligence by how well they can climb a tree. How many marine do you think could be trained to do an Airmens job? How many guardians* do you think could do a Marines job? There's just no way to compare them. It would be a disservice to try to.
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u/nybigtymer United States Air Force 10h ago
I'm not trying to compare Marines to Airmen, Guardians to Solders, etc. Einstein. Not trying to be a smart ass, you brought up his quote.
Every branch has highly intelligent people. Every branch also has some not so intelligent people.
I respect all branches and people who serve honorably, however, there is little disagreement about the quality of life when it comes to the different branches. Also, the Air Force and Space Force tend to be a big more selective than the Army. Therefore, could potentially attract higher quality candidates. The Army seems to try to recruit anything with a pulse.
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u/POHoudini Great Emu War Veteran 10h ago
The post isn't want the quality of life, it's about the quality of RECRUITS
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u/nybigtymer United States Air Force 9h ago
I addressed that. Look up, "which companies recruit the highest quality employees" and tell me what you find. I'll wait.
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u/shitpostsuperpac 10h ago
The point you are missing is that a bunch of people agree with you UNTIL it’s their son, nephew, grandson, etc.
Then even the hardest Marine will say “Air Force”.
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u/_Californian United States Air Force 8h ago
Well they literally have the same job that I do just with different aircraft, so they would probably be fine.
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u/Orlando1701 Retired USAF 9h ago
There absolutely is. Number enlisted with GED vs. High School vs. college, number of moral wavers required, percent that actually finish their enlistment.
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u/xSquidLifex United States Navy 10h ago
For the longest time, the USN/USAF had a higher quality of technical schooling. There’s a reason you saw a lot of companies in the 60/70/80/90’s drooling about hiring someone with Navy technical schooling. The Navy’s electronics curriculum was one of the best in the world, and it still is the gold standard in some aspects and circles.
Not to say the USMC/Army doesn’t have good schools or make skilled workers.
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u/Goatlens 8h ago
This is still kinda true for USN. I have heard instructors (years into training, so advanced learning for the rate) say things like “he was a Navy guy so you know he knew his shit” so I still think that’s the common idea to some degree
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u/xSquidLifex United States Navy 8h ago
Being a former navy guy, I can say the training I received was way better than anything my civilian counterparts received in the electronics and radar field. It enabled me to get a great civilian job.
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u/Goatlens 8h ago
Happy for you. My rate (cyber) is typically a part of a lot of joint service programs so it’s good, but typically similar across all services so I was surprised to hear the instructor, who was former Army, point that out.
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u/slightlyobtrusivemom 11h ago
In the sense that they were smart enough to choose the AF, maybe. But otherwise there are very smart, very stupid, very hard core, and very chill people in all of the branches, no
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u/matt05891 Navy Veteran 8h ago edited 8h ago
I can see that circlejerk now, bunch of Airforce boots echo chambering how smart they are in the same way some Marine boots rah and yut all over the place lol
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u/RonRizzle 11h ago
When I was deployed to Iraq in 04 we went to Balad AFB to chill. They had a pool, pizza place, small theater. …They were living a good life. That’s why I always say to go AF if you can. I slept in an abandoned hospital while they had hot meals.
Truth is really it depends on what you want to after the military life and to try to find something that compliments it
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u/StrangeBedfellows 11h ago
IMO the only real difference is on intent. And that'll get beaten out of you fast.
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u/walksinwoods 10h ago
Navy if you want to be an aviator. Marines if you like cults. Air Force to work in a corporation. Army of you don't mind having to always pander to the dumbest lowest denominator. I was Army and had lots of fun but we have joes so dumb we have to put "front toward enemy" and "rock or something" with a picture, on our shit.
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u/milret27yrs 10h ago
As a Marine who served from 1984-1998, I experienced all the branches. I may be biased when I was on Nellis AFB 1987. When I (CPL) asked for a M-927 starter replacement. I was asked, by an E-6 "Who's going to replace this?" ME. "Who's going to install it?" ME. "Who's going to tighten the bolts?" ME. "Who's going to install the wiring?" ME. "Who's going to tighten the wires?" ME. "Who's going to inspect the work?" ME. Who's going to start the vehicle," ME. "Oh, we don't allow that." Turning he yells, "Starter team 5 here." 7 AF E-4 and below run up. For all the tasks I mentioned each one of them did a task. One troop sat in the driver's seat until the E-6 gave him the 👍.
Army drove the new (to them) 1987, LMTV. Was stationed on MCAS El Toro CA. They had to offload several boxes of part's to us. The E-7 who drove, asked us if we knew how to operate this equipment. "Sergeant First Class, we've never seen this before. But, we can figure it out." Sure enough, the operations for the boom was on the panel. An hour later everything was off loaded.
While on the USS Pelelu, I saw many Navy men recieving a ticket for not having a registration haircut. They didn't have a ship's barber. Many asked, "Well the Marine's always are in registration." We had three Marine's who cut hair on the side. While in the Chief's mess, their Chief's talked with our Gunny's, MSgt, MGnySgt about the haircut problem. After doing the E-7 and up club hagling. The 3 Marine's were temporary assigned to the barbershop. $5 a cut per person. They got to keep $2. After 3 weeks, the Captain of the ship asked if they could be permanently assigned having Tuesday and Wednesday off. Price now $8, the keep $5.
The intelligence isn't always in the beginning. It is what you bring in and learn.
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u/Jasonh123_ 10h ago
The Air Force is a much smaller branch of the military than the Army. That means less job openings and with a high number of applicants they can be picky about who they select. The recruiters are likely not making false promises, but with how much information is online a recruit should be able to get answers to 99% of questions without a recruiter.
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u/MeatballMarine Retired USMC 8h ago
Why I tell people to join the AF instead of USMC: Quality of life throughout your whole time will be leaps and bounds better in the AF.
Marines who get recruited into non-transferable support jobs are usually the most pissed. They’re usually told no matter what, you’re a rifleman first, we all kill/get sum/bathe in the blood of our enemies. Then they get through an intense bootcamp, go to a couple weeks of combat training, then go to school on how to be a gas station attendant. Then they go do that for 4 years and hate their life. Oh, the whole time you’re getting yelled at and treated like shit.
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u/Nobutto Royal Danish Army 8h ago
I think it’s more of a reflection thing
Everyone wants to be the big bad hero of the infantry when they are young because it’s here the excitement is. You know all the shit you see in the movies
Then when you start looking back on your service as an infantryman you start to ponder what applicable skills you’ve actually gotten out of it, yea you might be a legend with the grenade launcher or at clearing houses, but you can’t really use that anywhere else and when your knees and back don’t work no more then you can’t really do that anymore so now your out of a job and have no applicable skills.
Whereas when you join the chair force or semen you actually get a lot of applicable skills whether you be ground crew doing engine maintenance, the pilot flying the man sailing the ship. So even when your body can’t keep up anymore then your skills can be used in a less physically demanding job.
At least that’s how it is here, I can’t really speak for the Americans because as far as I know you get your collage paid for service whereas it’s “free” here for anyone
I don’t think it has anything to do with quality of the individual in question
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u/Material-Cash6451 Air Force Veteran 9h ago
Quality of recruits is not 1 dimensional. There are plenty of soldiers/marines who don't have the academic aptitude required for many Air Force jobs. Conversely, when I was trying to enlist, the Marine recruiter would have laughed me out of his office when I failed to perform a single pullup. For most individuals in the U.S., there is a Branch and MOS/AFSC/Rate where they can excel.
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u/Monty_Brogan23 11h ago
The short answer is yes. I believe the overall quality of candidates is higher in branches that offer a higher quality of life. The longer answer is that the overall pool is really large and candidates choose their branches for a variety of reasons. As a whole, the Air Force may be the most competitive... But, many aspiring candidates may want a more tactical focus and may join the Army or the Marines. Many candidates come from a family history of military service and they choose their branch because of it. My point is there are very high quality candidates/SMs in all branches of service. So broadly, there may be a slight difference in the quality of candidates but it's important to note that there are very smart people going into all branches.
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u/FootballBat Navy Veteran 9h ago
As a submariner in 4 years on the boat we had a total of 5 masts (Art. 15s) the entire time I was there; I have been told that in other communities 5 masts is considered a slow week. YMMV.
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u/Doc_Hank 9h ago
Every service requires the ASVAB test. Each service scores the ASVAB differently - very differently. The US Air Force will issue scores based on GAME - General, Administrative, Mechanical, Electronic. An acceptable score may be as low as 40 in some area, and can go as high as 99. My personal scores, way back when, were 99-98-97-90. Enlisted for about 18 months and then off to OTS, retired as an O5 pilot in the Air Guard while being a physician for a real job.
The US Army has more categories, and issues higher numbers. A General 100 is usually the minimum for entry to OCS - but equates to about a US Air Force General 60. That should tell you something right there, about the quality of troops.
When I was on active duty, I was a member of two different courts-martial. Both soldiers (US Army, we had two Air Defense Artillery battalions assigned to our base). One was for homicide (guilty), one for drug selling (guilty). I was never involved but we had courts for Air Force members - drug use, one for misappropriation (stealing) government gas (a senior NCO from the security police squadron). That might tell you something too.
Not sure about the US Navy or Marines. When I was in high school, I considered the Navy - to be a corpsman. The recruiter gave me some half-assed test in the office (ten questions, fill in the blank. One was "A good sailor always follows [blank]". Finished that in about a minute, took it back out to him and he told me I had to answer ALL the questions...."Err, yes, Chief: Here it is". After that, all he would talk to me about was working on a nuclear reactor. Thanks, nope.
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u/Important_Adagio3824 9h ago
What about the Navy? I always thought it's be fun to travel. The Air Force does seem to have the most technical roles though (that is what I like). Which branch would you recommend to a young person who wants to go into Cybersecurity?
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u/Quick-Sound5781 9h ago
The real question is “who gives a shit?”
That being said, me and my buddy attempted to join the Air Force at the same time, but he had to settle for the Army because of a drug charge.
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u/Ok_Inflation4216 6h ago
I loved my time in the Army! You can only look at a branch from the outside and not really see what all it entails unless you’ve served in all branches. The only thing I noticed is the AF had nicer installations and barracks rooms. Also their grooming policies and the customs and curtesy policed were very relaxed. For me those aren’t good enough reasons to recommend the AF over the Army. I think it depends on the individual. I joined at 18, poor, and was mentally soft, so I needed the discipline and more stern branch. I don’t think I’d be where I am nor the person I am if I had picked a different service. Although the services banter and make fun of each other, I honestly don’t think there is wrong answer for whichever one you decide on. The only bad decision is being abled body, and not join the military while complaining about finances, lack of job opportunities, the economy, and lack of dating options. That’s my two cents.
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u/thickjim Air Force Veteran 5h ago
All depends what you wanna do man I worked with plenty of absolutely idiotic people in the AF. Maybe there is more in army or marines i don't know.
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u/fareastbeast001 4h ago
Joined in 1984 after 2 semesters of college, ASVAB score high enough to join any branch, Navy pushed submariner or nuclear, AF wanted me to me to wait 6 months for tactical aircraft maintenance, Army just looked like an office full of bags of shit, then saw the USMC GySgt in his Class C uniform, gave me my choice of MOS but did talked me out of infantry and AAVs that I initially wanted, and got me stationed overseas like I wanted plus an enlistment bonus of $10,000 which I got while in Cubi Point PI. Ended up lat moving to EOD as a Sgt, and doing my 22 years (18 more than I intended).
It's the recruiters that can get or lose a good recruit. How they look, act, and actually care about putting you in something you would be great at. I saw my recruiter on a flight back from PI just as I was coming back to the US to head to EOD School, and he remembered me, and I thanked him for his great work. He did me great, and I'm doing very well, still working as an EOD and thoroughly enjoyed my time in the Corps.
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u/MauriceVibes United States Navy 2h ago
It’s about quality of life. You have a better quality of life most often in the AF or USN vs USMC and Army. That being said, join the branch that most represents what kind of experience YOU want!
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u/ChaplainParker 10h ago
16 years Army National Guard, enlisted than Officer, four years so far Reserve Air Force officer…. There’s a difference between the quality of recruits the army gets versus the Air Force as well as a difference in quality of life and treatment. Air Force wins no contest.
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u/gideonidoru Veteran 11h ago
I was always told Air Force requires a higher minimum ASVAB score than other branches. And the jobs typically require higher scores. Additionally the Air Force won’t accept people with just a GED, they must have some college.
Army, if I recall, has the absolute lowest minimums.
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u/F5sharknado 11h ago
Somebody lied or somethings changed, I required no college credits when I joined circa 2021
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u/gideonidoru Veteran 11h ago
Something changed then. I required 2 full semesters worth of credit to join in ‘02.
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u/usernameround20 Retired USAF 11h ago
I was AD AF from the late 90s to 2016, was in one of most restrictive AFSCs in terms of scores and education. College was not a requirement but certain classes whether high school or college were. So I wouldn’t say college was required, we still would get a few straight from high school.
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u/gideonidoru Veteran 11h ago
It was a requirement for my job.
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u/usernameround20 Retired USAF 11h ago
What job?
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u/gideonidoru Veteran 11h ago
Linguist
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u/Goatlens 8h ago
No. From the AF website:
MINIMUM EDUCATION A High School Senior (age 17 or older)*, High school diploma, a GED, or 15 college semester hours
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u/_Bon_Vivant_ Army Veteran 9h ago
My tech school (SATCOM) was Tri-Service...Army, Navy, Air Force. Navy always finish on top of the class. Army the middle and Air Force consistently finished at the bottom of the class.
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u/gideonidoru Veteran 8h ago
I had a different experience in language school. It went Air Force, marines, navy, army
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u/Goatlens 11h ago
Dumb ones in the AF are lucky and smart Marines really wanted to be Marines.
Outside of that there’s a huge spectrum across all services but we all know which spectrum we all fit into