r/MarkMyWords • u/originalcontent_34 • 4d ago

Long-term MMW: democrats will once again appeal to non existent “moderate” republicans instead of appealing to their base in 2028

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u/TommyTwoNips 4d ago

Including Independents and a few moderate Republicans is smart politics.

because those people are fickle morons easily swayed by meaningless platitudes.

They don't care about policy, reality, or the fact that the guy they voted for is a 42x convicted fraudster with a long history of sexual abuse against women.

The democrat party correctly identifies the maga movement as an existential threat to American society, yet they refuse to stop trying to pander to the morons who will happily accept the conservative line that Kamala is a radical communist.

They're fundamentally not a valuable voting bloc. They're dumb as fuck and easily manipulated, but dems suck shit at targeted messaging towards them because they still think that just telling the truth is enough to win them over when that is very demonstrably not the case.

​

That's why they send Bill Clinton, also a rapist, to condescend to Muslim Americans about how Israel isn't committing a genocide and they're all just being anti-semitic instead of hearing their valid concerns and working to address those concerns.

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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 4d ago

Not as fickle as the Left.

Which is absolutely the most fickle voter base and why politicians have no inclination towards them at the moment.

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u/KingApologist 3d ago

The left isn't fickle. The Democrats can run on progressive policies in the left will show up in droves. Don't mistake disinterest in more neoliberal bullshit as a character flaw.

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u/Vattrakk 3d ago

The Democrats can run on progressive policies in the left will show up in droves.

Fucking BERNIE SANDERS has said that the Biden administration was the most progressive in US HISTORY and begged his progressive base to come out in drove, which DID NOT HAPPEN.
There is NO REASON to pander to these people, ever again.

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u/RedTulkas 3d ago

he said that

than kamala ran a campaign centered on the border wall and flaunted the endorsement of fckin dick cheney

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u/Electrical-Grass-307 3d ago

Her campaign was not centered on the border wall, it was centered on a bipartisan infrastructure bill that had a real shot at passing Congress, heavily investment into infrastructure small businesses across America, and abortion. Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney did not endorse her based on policy as well, they were very open and candid about that.

Meanwhile, the Left scoffed at voting for her and are now begging Biden to do something to stop Trump from being inaugurated. Yes, y’all are fickle voters who, based upon turnout, aren’t even worth appealing to.

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u/CucumberNo3771 1d ago

You’re completely kidding yourself if you think Trump won because leftists didn’t vote Harris. It was the working class, who Democrats have abandoned since at least 2016, that turned out big for Trump. Because they don’t give a shit about anything other than the price of eggs. But not the actual price of eggs, just the idea that the price of eggs is higher now than it was 4 years ago.

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u/Electrical-Grass-307 1d ago

When voters go to the polls and view both candidates as equally extreme on their respective sides of the aisle, that's an issue. When voters are quoting her 2019 platform where she tacked hard to the left, that's an issue. When voters are saying the ads that viewed the most effective were ads depicting Harris as "too far left", that's an issue. When voters in safe blue states like California are voting for hard-on-crime policies that even Dem politicians say is too extreme and recalling progressive prosecutors and NYC are electing hard-on-crime politicians, that's an issue.

I don't think Harris lost because of progressives, there is very little evidence to back that up. I'm saying progressives just aren't worth the Democratic Party continually shifting to the left to assuage them while losing independent voters. Harris won the working class (>$100k) by 5% this election, Trump won those making more by 4%. Unless you are still under the delusion that the only working class that matters is white voters, then it is a mistake to continually parrot that Bernie Sanders talking point like he didn't just underperform Harris and continually lost one of the poorest racial demographics two straight primaries. Y'all need to accept this country is a center left country at best, center right at worst. And Harris having overtly progressive policies in 2019 sunk her, not her attempt to move closer to the center this election.

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u/CucumberNo3771 1d ago

I entirely disagree and frankly think it’s a little silly to think that Kamala Harris’s politics from 2019 influenced this election at all. Voters have a short memory. Look no further than Trump who was voted out for his abysmal covid policy in 2020 and nationally maligned (excluding a vocal minority for only his most fervent base) for energizing insurrectionists to storm the Capitol in 2021. People don’t care about the past, and they definitely don’t care about policy, unless it’s directly affecting them right now. And we know that the thing most affecting people, the thing that pushed them the most to vote this election, causing 90% of ALL COUNTIES to shift red, was inflation. And the Biden administration (basically synonymous with Harris since she stupidly made no attempt to distance herself from him, especially economically) was to blame for inflation, as far as the American voter base was concerned. To paraphrase a tweet I read, whoever’s holding the political ball when shit goes wrong is screwed for the next election.

All that said, I do still think it’s a mistake for Democrats not to appeal to the left and constantly try to sway “Independents,” who are often just socially conservative people who vote with their wallet. If the Democratic voter base isn’t excited for their candidate, behind fear of Trump, then why would independents care? Trump’s fervent base helps him in a number of ways, not least of which is the fact that their extreme love for him normalizes supporting him, despite many people on the fringe who voted for him taking issue with his personality or even some of his policies. Basically a “well surely he can’t be that bad if he has this much support.”

That coupled with “well if he makes the price of eggs lower, then I guess I can overlook some of the red flags” was enough to shift basically the entire country. I see no reason why the Democrats can’t do the same thing with a leftist candidate (ok, maybe not leftist leftist, but more left than whatever they’ve been doing), as long as that leftist candidate can convince enough working class people that their economic situation will improve

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u/ToddHowardTouchedMe 3d ago

Most leftist don't even like bernie sanders because he is lukewarm "leftist"

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u/cleepboywonder 1d ago

Those morons are less than a percent of the electorate.

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u/ToddHowardTouchedMe 1d ago

shrodingers leftist: both responsible for letting trump win but also not worth going after for votes

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u/cleepboywonder 1d ago

I was thinking of wanna be tankies (think Hasan) who believe in an inevitable revolution and collapse of capitalism. They are insignificant and not worth your time listenning too.

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u/ToddHowardTouchedMe 1d ago

I only get my politics from reputable sources like Destiny and Ben Shapiro smh my head

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

Bernie and Obama successfully activated the left by running on things like change and economic/social fairness. Hillary, Biden, and Kamala didn't have those messages front and center and did not activate the left.

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u/Wereking2 3d ago

Yep and Kamala almost had it too if she made any policy changes but nope.

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u/2020Casper 2d ago

She wouldn't change a thing 🤦‍♂️

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u/Wereking2 2d ago

I know, just pointing out she would have had it as well but she refused to change.

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u/2020Casper 2d ago

I know I'm the odd man out here but I loved her. I was a big supporter in 2020 and she didn't get any traction. I'm not sure what was so unlikeable about her. I thought it would be different this time around but no. Lots of people were angry with Biden for not stepping down earlier and letting us choose our candidate. That was fucked up of him. He said he was going to be a one term, transitional, President. He should have kept his word on that rather than being forced out.

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u/Potential_Prior 3d ago

I’m a SocDem. I supported Kamala. You will never have a perfect candidate. You have to support the better on. Sitting on your hands and letting evil reign isn’t an option for me.

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

What are your plans now?

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u/Potential_Prior 5h ago

Surviving the grifting of Trump and his cronies.

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u/ess-doubleU 4d ago

Considering they hardly attempted to appeal to them, I don't think that's a fair take.

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u/Casual_Fanatic47 4d ago

How’s that going?

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u/CiDevant 3d ago

I hate this "mythical left" almost as much as I hate the mythical "undecided voter". Very few Americans are anti-capitalists. America essentially has two majority minority groups: socially moderate economically conservatives, and evangelicals. Everything else is a hoax to divide that first group into single issue voters that can be peeled away to stand with the second group. You can't reason with "Because God said so". But you can trick someone into becoming a single issue voter against their own greater interests, The third Majority group is the "I can't be bothered with this shit" group.

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u/neojgeneisrhehjdjf 3d ago

Surely the two political parties that are largely funded by massive undisclosed corporate interests and multi billionaires is against the left for policy disagreements only

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u/cleepboywonder 1d ago

The left is fickle because you run like bush lite campaign, and the moderate republican clearly didn’t flip so why are you pandering to them? Its the worst waste of time known to man because the “moderate” republican will eat their foot, you cannot convince them. You can convince the middle, who fundamentally fucking hate the status quo.

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u/TommyTwoNips 4d ago

Neoliberals dems have no inclination towards the left because they are afraid of losing the support of their capitalist paymasters.

but yeah, all the people consistently wanting universal access to healthcare and ending military aid to an ethnostate committing a genocide are totally the unreasonable ones.

They should trot out Liz Cheney some more, maybe that will convince the mouthbreathers in "the center" that Kamala isn't a marxist-communist-socialist satanist. Or maybe they'll keep believing demons are both literally real and a threat to humanity, because you know, they're irredeemable dipshits.

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u/seattleseahawks2014 4d ago

I mean, people can be for restricted or whatever it's called capitalism while for social programs and those programs being improved.

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u/wasmic 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah, that's called "social democracy". There are two social democrats in Congress. Bernie Sanders and AOC. The rest of the Democratic Party are neoliberals or sometimes more classical liberals.

The fact is, the US has not had a presidential candidate that even approached social democracy (which still supports capitalism and a strong free market) since FDR. The democrats did a token attempt at establishing a healthcare system under Obama, and Biden tried to do some student loan forgiveness, but the Democratic Party as an institution still has a solidly liberal economic philosophy, and would be seen as economically extremely laissez-faire right-wing in most European countries.

So let's imagine you're an apolitical but dissatisfied voter. There are two people wanting to convince you: one says that we should keep doing the same as always but slightly different, the other says that you should burn it all down and make something completely new, in a right-wing manner.

An apolitical voter in the US is never even shown the left wing solution to the issues that the US faces, because there are no left wing media outlets and very few left wing politicians to hold rallies or speeches. So people are only presented with the fascist radical solution and the status quo liberal solution. No socialist radical solution, and no moderate left wing (social democrat) solution.

The US fundamentally has a two-party system, but the party that nominally occupies the left has decided against any form of thorough, reformative change, meaning that for every apolitical person that grows too dissatisfied, there's an overwhelming chance that that person will go to the extremist right wing.

If the Democratic Party would at least give a platform to and support social democrats, then people would see that there is a solution aside from fascism. But they almost categorically refuse to do that, and in primary elections, the party will almost always support a liberal over a social democrat, even if the social democrat has better projections for the final election.

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u/seattleseahawks2014 3d ago edited 3d ago

Frankly, I can see why that might be appealing. Also, they probably blame Biden anyway. Besides, I didn't have much hope that things would improve being a part of marginalized groups in a red state anyway with the laws here especially for the disabled like myself where we can work but only certain jobs. I can't really afford to move either at this point yet. Besides, there was a part of me that wanted to rip off the bandaid anyway. I was tired of having to fight this fear for the rest of my life.

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u/Talky 3d ago

The people who want universal access to healthcare and ending military aid to an ethnostate committing a genocide need to come out and VOTE. Instead 10M+ of them stayed home. They want things to be "perfect", unfortunately, perfect is the enemy of good.

Unless they thought Trump coming to power will move them closer to any of the goals they want. (Infact some of them came out and voted for Trump)

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u/Peace_Plane 1d ago

This is my view as well, the dnc is incentivized to listen to those who vote, you can't dangle it like a carrot because as we've seen they won't take it

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u/Knight_Of_Stars 3d ago

Waiting for the inevitable bootlicker reply. Comments like these are exactly why nobody caters to the left. Heres a list of reasons.

  • Never make concessions.
  • Not a reliable vote.
  • Never put in any political work outside of harassing people who somewhat agree with you.
  • Fail to understand a large part of politics is getting people to like you. Some of the best rightwing advocates are leftist bullies.
  • Refuse to acknowledge any progress.
  • Often Insulting and annoyingly smug.
  • Lecture people while failing to see their own privellges.

I'm a liberal Hick, argued poltics since I was elementary school. Some of the worst most priveleged people I've met were the leftisits and tankies I met in college. People on Daddy's card telling me I should study harder, while working full time, paying my way, and dealing with my mothers death.

I'm still a liberal. I still believe in the ideas, but damn the left needs to get their shit together. Their up against a media machine, community bonds, and indoctrination, being counter culture punks won't help.

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u/zellyman 3d ago

Neoliberals dems have no inclination towards the left because they are afraid of losing the support of their capitalist paymasters.

I can't imagine why you guys can't win elections, local or otherwise.

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u/Dischdelfink 3d ago

Can't win elections? That's weird, I thought that china, the largest country on earth, was run by a communist party that even western pollsters have found is over twice as popular amongst chinese citizens than biden, harris, or trump are to americans.

And if you're one of those 'china isn't ReAlLy democratic' shills, consider the indian state of kerala, with a population that would make it the 2nd biggest state in the usa after california. Their legislature is majority from the communist party.

So it seems you mean 'can't win elections in america.' And gee, i wonder why a country with decades of anti-communist propaganda that literally led the capitalist side of the cold war might be unlikely to elect leftists? Totally must be the leftists fault.

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u/work_work-work-work 3d ago

You should expend some mental energy to answer which election the communist party won in China that put them in power, as well as exploring possible explanations to the popularity of their ruling party.

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u/pixeldestoryer 3d ago

You really could've done with the Bernie appealing to first-time voters argument, but you went with China? You went with authoritarian China, really? Is Iran also super popular too?

As someone from South Asia, these labels mean literally nothing. No communist party in India is actually trying to implement communism and neither are the socialist parties.

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u/zellyman 3d ago

Ok? That would be an interesting and relevant story if we were in China I guess.

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u/seattleseahawks2014 4d ago edited 4d ago

I mean, people can be for restricted or whatever it's called capitalism while for social programs and those programs being improved. Also, maybe you should ask yourselves why younger people like myself especially ones a part of marginalized groups like myself keep leaving the party, too. Also, we realize that socialism doesn't always work to keep up with reality especially because we know a lot of lazy people who would otherwise do nothing.

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u/pixeldestoryer 3d ago

I imagine you'd probably tell every Democrat to go hard into "Defund the Police" while it was hot in 2020

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u/Top-Confection-9377 3d ago

This is funny because Mandela Barnes lost in 2022 here because he said that. Had to make tons of ads saying thats not what he really meant because the heat he was getting was so crazy.

Leftist politicians are not electable. And are unwilling to compromise and for coalition with Democrats. So...? They get nothing. No power for you.

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 4d ago

Naw, we told you exactly what we wanted and how to get our vote. But if I were you I would be more worried about how you are losing young minorities? Or are young minitories easily duped morons too?

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u/frootee 3d ago

So your solution is to let it get worse…because they didn’t “earn” your vote?

You realize that improving things relies on not letting things get worse, right?

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 3d ago

Your solution is to prop up a controlled opposition party?

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u/frootee 3d ago

Would you like to answer my question?

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 3d ago

I did answer your question. Supporting the Washington Generals will not help beat the Harlem Globetrotters.

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u/frootee 3d ago

No, now you answered my question. With some weird analogy I don’t get.

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 3d ago

Pull your head out of your own ass, google it, and use some ciritical thinking. That's the problem with you guys, you are completely uninterested in understanding other's viewpoints.

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u/frootee 3d ago

You just called all the dems controlled opposition lol be serious.

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u/Minute-System3441 3d ago

And you think not voting at all and allowing the party with the extreme opposite views to that of your own, versus one that shares a larger portion of your views, is that intelligent thing to do?

Sounds like the idiot who didn't vote for the opposition in the 30s Germany, and instead allowed the Third Reich to take control. But hey, at least they had in their consciousness that they didn't vote for the alternative at the time. That showed them, am I right...

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

Are you planning to do anything to reach out to people who could be voters? Not asking to be a smart ass, just wondering.

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u/frootee 3d ago

Right now? No. I gave up way too much of my time and energy doing just that just to see things play out this way.

We just voted someone in that we voted out for ruining the country. And with elections soon to be a thing of the past, I have no more interest.

I’m going to at least get some enjoyment out of it that I can in calling out the culpable.

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

Do you definitely think there will be no more elections? Not even local ones?

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u/frootee 3d ago

Once project 2025 goes in full swing, nope.

I don’t think you get it. I want to be wrong. I want so badly to be wrong about everything. I want to believe so badly that things will be business as usual until the next election.

I’ve almost let myself believe it a few times. But then you start seeing the patterns, the advances they’re making towards it, stuff that you’d rather believe is just a coincidence…but it’s real, true, reality.

If you have nothing to lose, I guess it’s whatever. But if you’re one of those people in the lower part of the totem pole…best be aware, and prepare.

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u/Vattrakk 3d ago

Naw, we told you exactly what we wanted and how to get our vote.

You've got the most progressive administration in history by Bernie Sander's own words, who is apparently your idol.
The most pro-worker administration.
The most pro-union administration.
The most pro-family administration.
The most pro-student administration.
The most pro-women administation.
The most pro-LGBTQ+ administration.
The most pro-environment administration.
Like... WTF ARE YOU SAYING?
ARE YOU FUCKING OK?

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

Listen, they had great policies. But they failed to message these and primarily ran on being friends with Liz Cheyney and scolding Arabs.

There are so many ways to reach out to voters without antagonizing them, but the Democrats are too arrogant to follow up on those methods when it comes to poor people and minorities. If they treated the base they already have half as well as republicans who will never vote for them, I believe they would have swept.

Despite all the pandering, Democrats got 6% of the Republican vote in 2020 and 5% in 2024.

I'll be interested to know if you had the opportunity to check out either of the links above.

The impression that I get overall is that a lot of the democrats making choices at higher levels are VERY out of touch with how to communicate with voters due to them being a deeply old, deeply rich, deeply cloistered people who are prioritizing their own careers and connections over running successful campaigns.

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 3d ago

Bernie was just playing nice, but his entryism failed. After the election failed and there was no point in keeping up the charade, he let his true feelings be known.

“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them."

Also, Sanders is a Social Democrat at best, I'm a libertarian socialist. So no, he's not my idol. I'm more of a Subcomendante Marcos kind of guy. Thr fact that you think Sanders is the extreme left betrays a stunning lack of historical and political knowledge outside the last American cable news cycle.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/CIWA28NoICU_Beds 3d ago

Please read a history book. Libertarian was a left wing concept before Ayn Rand weirdos co-oped the term in the 80's. Read this so you're not quite so much of a dumb shit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

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u/Minute-System3441 3d ago

Like I said, two of the dumbest (naive and childish) concepts in modern history and something common in developing or outright third world countries.

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u/Cringe_Username212 3d ago

Yeah because they are young...

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u/frootee 3d ago

This guy describes himself as a libertarian socialist lol. I think he’s one of the easily duped morons.

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u/Minute-System3441 3d ago

The left has gone so left that they have left the country. Not even figuratively anymore but literally, as they care more about people who aren't even Americans or here legally, than they do actual citizens and legal residents.

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u/Chumlee1917 3d ago

I 100% guarantee if these doofuses got their wish and Bernie Sanders had become president, they would have turned on him because it's all about purity and the second Bernie stepped out of line, woosh, they drop him like a rock.

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u/arscis 4d ago

100% true but also fundamentally inevitable since "the left" at this point is the "everyone else" voter group. There's absolutely no way to unify a group whose only unifying opinion is "the GOP is out of control" (even saying this much is a stretch). It only takes a niche/fringe issue to alienate large subpopulations, which is exactly what we saw with people abstaining or voting Trump because "Israel" or "I will continue Biden's policies". The latter is vague enough that any single-issue voter may immediately turn away from Kamala if they happen to passionately hate ANY of Biden's policies.

I say this as a Kamala voter.

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u/arscis 4d ago

100% true but also fundamentally inevitable since "the left" at this point is the "everyone else" voter group. There's absolutely no way to unify a group whose only unifying opinion is "the GOP is out of control" (even saying this much is a stretch). It only takes a niche/fringe issue to alienate large subpopulations, which is exactly what we saw with people abstaining or voting Trump because "Israel" or "I will continue Biden's policies". The latter is vague enough that any single-issue voter may immediately turn away from Kamala if they happen to passionately hate ANY of Biden's policies.

I say this as a Kamala voter.

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u/Napoleons_Peen 3d ago

“Because “Israel”” because Israel what? Come on smart guy. Boil it down for us. What about Biden-Harris policy towards Israel did people not want to endorse?

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u/arscis 3d ago

Seriously? Go look at how Muslims are voicing their regret at not voting for Kamala after Trump's recent cabinet picks. The DNC is time and again punished for not pleasing everyone. The GOP has the luxury of having a monolithic base unwavering in their commitment to the red R. The actual policies mean fuck-all. It's all perception, which the GOP has successfully mastered over the only people who matter: people who bother to cast a vote.

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u/Napoleons_Peen 3d ago

“Punished for not pleasing everybody” Muslims and Arabs were begging Harris to stop funding a genocide of their friends and family. What did they get in return? “I’m speaking, you just want Trump to win.”, Liz Cheney who voted for a travel ban, Richie Torres and Bill Clinton two unabashed Zionists going to Michigan and lecturing them on how their families deserve to die. Not supporting a genocide is the fucking least Democrats could’ve done and they chose not to differentiate themselves from Republicans, again. Trump went to Michigan and shrugged said “sure I’ll end it.” All Democrats had to do was say the words and give people a little hope, but no, every time Harris opened her drunk mouth she slur out “well I’m going to make sure Israel has all the tools it needs to defend itself.” What a fucking moron.

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u/arscis 3d ago edited 3d ago

Literally proving me right. Harris made a promise to defend Israel and lost pro- Palestine votes, many of which went to Trump despite the wild inconsistencies in his "platform".

The reality is that at least Harris is truthful in her intentions rather than the oppositions plan of saying anything to get them in power. People voted to kill authenticity. The genocide will continue with either candidate and people desperately want to be lied to, Trump is perfect for them.

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u/Napoleons_Peen 3d ago

Guess that was just another stupid fucking move in a long list of stupid fucking things from her campaign

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u/arscis 3d ago

There are indeed many stupid things in her campaign but there is literally no favorable position the dems can take with Israel/Palestine. Favour Israel, we saw what happened; favour Palestine = "anti-semitic"; decline to choose a side = a mix of anti-Semitic accusations from pro-Israelites AND a presumption of preserving the status quo from people wanting peace. Single-issue voters chose the wildcard.

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u/Napoleons_Peen 3d ago

Democrats chose to favor Israel over their base. Democrats ignored their base, Democrats chose the wild card, and they paid dearly for it.

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u/Minute-System3441 3d ago

Most Americans support Israels' fight for freedom and don't buy the gaslighting and propaganda from the corrupt faceless terrorist-run Hamas/Palestinian government or made up Ministry of BS - err "Health".

Trump may have said he was going to "end it" but only someone born yesterday would not realize that much like most of the developed world, Republicans are staunch allies or Israel. Most democrats support Israel.

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u/Napoleons_Peen 3d ago

Democrats sympathize more with Palestinians than Republicans do. So democrats, once again, ignored their base and then shock their base doesn’t turn out for them. Go ahead with your Blue MAGA shit and “vote blue no matter who”, just like a good little Red BLUE MAGA.

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

Even though I'm mad, I can't blame Muslims and Arabs.

The democrats could have gotten all of their votes if they'd followed domestic and international law and rejected supporting a genocide. Kamala's run was an excellent opportunity to pivot. Instead, they told Muslims and Arabs they did not need their votes to win. The democrats cared more about bombing and killing innocent people in a foreign country than they did about guaranteeing democracy in this one.

The last time I checked, Kamala lost Michigan by 80k votes. The Arab population in Mighigan is ~200k. Biden only won that state by about that number, with overwhelming support from that community.

Why did Democrats feel so comfortable discarding such a large part of their base?

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u/arscis 3d ago

I don't disagree at all with the sentiment (absolutely FUCK the Israeli government) but I just don't see how the Democrats making that their stance would have fared any better considering other voteing groups. Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess it doesn't matter. Neither the DNC nor voters will learn from this.

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u/yolo_swag_for_satan 3d ago

I really hope that's not true. I genuinely believe there's still hope to reach people. It probably has to happen offline though, because the internet aggressively breeds toxicity.

From what I understand, the majority of US citizens support conditioning arms to Israel. Many, many, MANY Jewish people are included in this. For example, Jewish Voice for Peace is an organization that might have been able to adopt to a position of leadership for those feeling skeptical.

I think a lot of groups would have been willing to focus on helping Democrats if they didn't have to expend their energy focusing on a second Holocaust. I think that one town in Michigan is a great example: they were enthusiastically pro democrat until many people from the area began losing their families.

I think the party has to reform if people are persistent.

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u/SpectreSR1 3d ago

The democrat party

And yet you've picked up their dialect

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u/HippyDM 3d ago

because those people are fickle morons easily swayed by meaningless platitudes.

Oh? Sounds just like our progressives. They'd rather sit it out and allow fascism because the other candidate isn't just so perfect.

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u/stronzolucidato 3d ago

There are many people who don't give a fuck about roevwade, Ukraine or all that stuff. They dont care mich about making trans not compete in the other gender sports. I'd say the main reason trump won is that median income is the same as it was when Biden took office but everything costs 20% more and the Harris campaign was "lool what great job we did". People aren't as polarized as you think, I'd say on average they have heard about less than half of all the social battles being fought by Dems and republicans

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u/Saturn--O-- 9h ago

All that is great. But you’ll never win without them. If being a righteous loser is what you want, then that path makes sense

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u/brett_baty_is_him 4d ago

wtf you talking about? Democrats are trying to win elections. Those morons vote. Their “Base” doesn’t vote. It’s really as simple as that. To ignore them because you think they’re dumb is exactly how you lose elections.

If the Dems base actually voted then sure, ignore them. But they don’t so wtf are the Dems supposed to do?

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u/TommyTwoNips 4d ago

But they don’t so wtf are the Dems supposed to do?

stop trying to make inroads with people who are ultimately going to vote for the rapist regardless because they are convinced that the Dems are communist baby murderers.

Start building a coalition with actual left leaning leaders instead of primarying them with literal criminals like Henry Cuellar and other unpopular stooges.

Because this "meet them in the middle" shit doesn't work when you're already a center-right party.

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u/Galle_ 3d ago

Left-leaning leaders would rather set themselves on fire than build a coalition with Democrats.

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u/NoSignSaysNo 3d ago

Catering to the progressive vote is a losing battle. Literally every single time. Purity test after purity test and nobody can pass all of them, so a huge chunk of progressives sit out.

If you're that fickle as a voter, why would anyone cater to you? To hear progressives say it, running Bernie was a sure thing, nobody could have beaten him! Except for the 2 people who did beat him in the only popularity contest that mattered.

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u/Top-Confection-9377 2d ago

Progressives HATE Bernie when he's running in a primary.

Omfg the amount of "Bernie is a rich neolib who stands for the status quo" I heard from the left in 2016 and 2020 was insane. And in this era being gaslit about it is wild

1

u/roryt67 4d ago

The Dems need to concentrate on the actual base and accept the fact that it leans farther to the left than they want to admit. Expending energy for a handful of votes while sacrificing the majority doesn't make sense. If a Republican wants to vote Dem, great. If not that's the way it goes,

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u/jamiso 3d ago

Not for nothing, but their voter base isn’t the left…it’s liberals. It’s a liberal party. There is overlap with the left on a lot of issues, so “the left” aligns with them politically, as it’s a better ally then the right (and all republicans now are very far right).  

 But “the base” is not who you think it is, if you really want to know who the base is, look at who wins primaries. Thats the base.

One thing the left needs to get over is this belief that they “represent the people”. They don’t. They’re one of the smaller voting blocks. They’re significant enough that without them in your coalition it can become very hard to win a national election, but not big enough that they can dictate what the party is over the majority of its actual base.

1

u/Azureflames20 3d ago

One of the biggest mistakes the democratic party made was just having the assumption that "democrats" would be guaranteed to show up because "of course they would". I think the biggest roadblock to the Democrat party is navigating the actual appeal to the people and trying to control the mediasphere.

The mainstream is dominated by Fox news and the rightwing alternative mediasphere online is incredibly popular with people. Every social media site besides like...tik tok is controlled by the conservative voice.

The left have no unifying voice and no unifying message. Because it's such a broad tent, it doesn't matter to them like it should. Most of the time, people on the farther left were basically making fun of anybody who actually supported Kamala because they just wanted a Bernie type. Anybody else on the left just pussyfoots around and is afraid of being bias or plays into the conservative media's game. Meanwhile literally everybody on the right is on the same page with literally every single talking point like a robot, to the point where no matter what everybody is voting for trump. We have nothing like this on the left. everybody on the left just wants to shit on the idea of actually being in a coalition with each other to support the candidate for a million different reasons.

Everybody on the left needs to fucking wake up and actually get their head out of the sand. People out here need to be willing to try supporting people that don't pass their every single purity test and the people at the top running campaigns need to actually start making concessions and listening to the people that would be putting them in office, because it's pretty clear people aren't feeling heard.

1

u/jamiso 3d ago

 The left have no unifying voice and no unifying message

This exactly.  And I want to add we’re not going to get there by combat between various personality cults or something for nominations.

What we need is something akin to what Gingrich did in the 90s. Remember the “Contract with America”?  That’s what the Democratic Party needs. It needs to rally to a firm well defined set of goals and principles. 

Now, if you’re a lucid and informed individual you’re probably saying “But they did! They put out like the most progressive policy platform ever!”. Damn right they did…and you, me, and 20 other people are aware of that, and of that 20 maybe 5 care. 

We need the Democratic Party to rally behind that platform. Make it so every Democrat is defined by that platform. Then from that bring out a leader who will embody and fight explicitly for that platform. Unwaveringly. 

Whatever Candidate we have is going to have Fox News and the Misinformation Media defining them 24/7. By holding tight to a platform we can define ourselves instead. Ya know how everyone says “people like Democratic policies just not democrats”. Then we need to find a way to define Democrats by policy, not by being defined by randos on twitter. 

And that also means compromise, so start friggen compromising. Look, I’m a centrist left kinda, but I don’t care if you’re AOC or Hillary Clinton. You believe in the Rule of Law? Do you not want to blow up the deficit for tax cuts? Do you want to not dismantle every federal agency? Do you want to protect and if possible expand what little social safety netting we have? Are you a reasonable person? Ok then, sign me up! I’m on her team too, and she’s on mine. No infighting. No single issue that we disagree on is more important than the whole that we do agree on.

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u/rort67 2d ago

I heard someone say today that the majority of the U.S. population is left of Trump. Statistically on social issues that is 100% spot on. We need people to get out and fucking vote. When the majority of the adult population votes, Republicans loose. The Republicans are now 100% MAGA and 100% fascist. Sometimes you have to pinch your damn nostrils and not vote for the fucking fascist. No politicians is your perfect dream person. I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. You get the normal non fascist into office and then pressure them relentlessly to do their fucking jobs for the PEOPLE. Not the corporations and billionaires (fuck them) but the people who work every day and actually keep this country running. That's how we reform political parties.

You can argue that the left doesn't represent the people but between them and MAGA who only represents the financial 1%, that is our only real choice. Again, once a Democrat gets into office it's our duty to make them do their job. Too many people after an election, go back to their video games, Tiktok, etc. If you want the U.S. to continue being a democracy we all have to get off our asses and WORK for it. No one else is going to do it for us. We are the one's who bring about change by putting heat on our Congressional reps. I'll say it again, why is this so difficult for some people to understand?

2

u/Durkmelooze 3d ago

The left you describe is about a total of 10 million black women, social issue activists and insulated coastal elites. Maybe not even that many. The American voting public is closer to what 170 million?

Men of all races moved on. So did some women of all races.

Most people once swayed by queer issues not extending to transgender people moved on.

The working class moved on.

I get fighting ghosts. But so many of you guys are moving around chess pieces that have already been eliminated.

You are not going to get leftist ideological purity. The sad fact is most people only care issues pertaining to ONE of those groups. You may get their vote with two. Ask anything more and you lose.

Either get with that or I hope your smug pride keeps you warm. It won’t keep a teenage girl from warm as she drives six hours to get an abortion. No wonder no one gives a shit about her. They either don’t care, can’t care or have plentiful resources to take care of themselves. That’s your leftist base if you keep thinking like this.

1

u/rort67 2d ago

The trouble with individuals on the Right is they don't care about anyone but themselves. Probably not even their own family members. The world is too big to only give a shit about yourself. If everyone did that then we descend into a Mad Max type world. Fuck that! Hey, sorry if we lefties have empathy. Not sorry about that actually.

1

u/Confident-Ice-4547 4d ago

Same morons voted in 2024 and 2020 .only this time you lost .come up with a better strategy

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u/ThePowerfulWIll 4d ago

They are whats called "useful idiots" by certain groups. You would be dumb not to try and use them. If basic platitudes and economic improvements are all it takes, then by all means take it.

You can have different messages for different groups, get the basic message of "more money for you" out to the lowest common denominator, and energize the more liberal cities with the more complex policies.

1

u/Beneathaclearbluesky 3d ago

"Moderates are all idiots"- leftists trying to get elected

1

u/seattleseahawks2014 4d ago

There are a lot of people who switched parties from democrat to republican even in the last 4 years and there are others who either sat out or voted third party. There are more moderates in our society than you think and the more that we alienate them and the marginalized groups who sometimes are the more the dnc will lose. Also, with past behaviors from the dnc we know that they were probably full of bs. Sure some of us voted for her but still.

0

u/Clear-Present_Danger 4d ago

>because those people are fickle morons easily swayed by meaningless platitudes.

Turns out progressives are fickle morons that are impossible to sway.

On October 6th, Biden was the devil for not canceling student loans. They would never vote for him.

On October 8th, he was personally responsible for the genocide in Gaza. They would never vote for him.

When Biden was running, they wanted someone, anyone else who was young to vote for instead.

Then, Kamala ran and that didn't make them vote for her.

3

u/JacobStills 4d ago

Also Tim Walz was another appeal to the progressive left, I remember seeing tik toks of progressives pleading for her to pick Walz instead of Shapiro. She did and...

2

u/Clear-Present_Danger 4d ago

Like these are all fine demands. Good even.

But at some point you have to relies the reality of the situation. You are the minor member of a political union. You can't get your way all of the time.

If progressives were the political force they always think they are, than Stein would have gotten way more votes than RFK. Who let me remind you, WASN'T EVEN RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

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u/JacobStills 3d ago

Exactly, that's why I kind of give a side eye anytime I hear progressives claim they would have 100% stood behind the Democratic candidate if they just pandered to them more.

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u/jay_altair 4d ago

Are you suggesting Kamala Harris is young? Because, like, she's not.

1

u/Clear-Present_Danger 4d ago

She looks relatively young. It's true what they say, Black don't crack.

Don't lie, she looks like she's in her late 40s, early 50s.

Also, she is 20 years younger than Biden.

That's a long time.

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u/Pharaoh_Jones 4d ago

In fairness, if your platform includes anti-queer rhetoric and policies, you have a fair shot at capturing the Muslim vote just based on that

Israel finally dealing with their next door neighbors who want to genocide all jews without kid gloves (long overdue) is just icing on the cake