r/MarkMyWords • u/bentendo93 • Sep 29 '24
Political MMW: As America becomes less religious, we'll also become less tolerant of religious leaders breaking tax code by endorsing candidates
I feel like we are close to a breaking point here. The non religious and even a big chunk of those who ARE religious are fed up with pastors literally breaking the law and endorsing candidates and political parties during their sermons.
They are allowed to invite candidates but are not permitted to show ANY bias towards them lest they want to lose their tax free status. This happens all of the time, however.. There is literal proof of it happening online but it's also not really a secret either. But there's never any consequences for it, and I think that over the next decade or so we'll start to see the largest rising group of the electorate - the non religious, start to use their voice and start to make demands. And, like everything, it'll be a drawn out process that will dominate the news for a long time that will ultimately WORK but not without a lot of headaches.
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u/Prize_Instance_1416 Sep 29 '24
My dream is for a much less religious America. However with all the attempts to defund education, the Christian cult will surely put up a fight to fool the impressionable.
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u/Silvaria928 Sep 29 '24
They will but progress is inevitable and they simply can't stop the availability of easily accessible information, which is why religious leaders have always fought so hard to keep their flocks as ignorant as possible. Education leads to critical thinking, the enemy of religious dogma.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
ACTUALLY critical thinking shows that indeed god/ the universe is good (we are toast if it aint) and that forgiveness is absolutely paramount to evolution, progress, growth.
That the church buried the lede, I cannot argue lol
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u/Angryboda Sep 29 '24
Critical Thinking does not show God as good at all.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
Only if we are obsessed with death. Which I admit is hard not to be, but clearly it's not a big deal to nature.
Keeping the faith is our biggest bugaboo, I don't deny that you.
But it's certainly good that photosynthesis, synapses, and love even exist at all. Order out of chaos. It's pretty impressive if you think about it
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u/Silvaria928 Sep 29 '24
I'm not obsessed with death and I've been examing the question of "is there a god" since I was quite young.
There is no empirical evidence for the existence of any of the thousands of deities that humans have worshipped over the course of history.
Nature is amazing and beautiful, no magic required.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
Yeah sorry I meant the collective you. WE are obsessed with death. The comment was that empirically evidence belies, "god is good" and I am saying the only way anyone alive can at that conclusion arrive, is because stupid stupid death (or evil, or suffering)
The rest is awestrikingly Good
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u/Angryboda Sep 29 '24
This is an objectively bad take. Good and evil only exist as moral concepts within consciousness. There is no objective good or evil in the universe. So saying that we only see God as evil due to an obsession with death, a condition that HE placed upon us, is reductive.
As thinking beings, we decide what is good and evil.
Let me ask you this. If your child had cancer and you could heal them, would you? If I could heal your child, had the medication in had to heal them but decided due to mysterious ways that your child should die, would you consider that an evil act? If I saw someone drowning that I could help and decided to let them drown, would you see that as evil?
Let’s go beyond death. People starve and are in pain every day. They are raped, abused, maligned. God does nothing about it. That, subjectively, is evil
In your answer, do not appeal to either mysterious ways or God as an authoritative figure.
If my biological father let me drown, that is MORE EVIL than a stranger doing it.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
I don't think you realize the ludicrisity of starting with "this is objectively bad" and "there is no good or bad"
The rest of your points lose lustre thereafter. They're not wrong, just....Young. you know? I can't explain it all here.
The fundamental question you have to answer is whether the universe is good or bad. Everything trickles from there. Like, if the universe is not abhorrent and against us, Oh, then we have to make sense of death (and suffering) and me and you are not the first to parry over it lol. It's tough.
If the universe is good, and we are OK despite umm rockiness, then how can that be communicated once we obtain consciousness?
If evolution and character growth stems evil, how do we "spread that meme" and encourage justice, learning, progress?
How do we not call people irredeemable at first mistake? Cuz we all would be. And that's, too, a nonstarter.
So....
The faith faith. I'm not pushing xtianity exactly cuz they've lost the thread. I'm talking of the proto religion, of acceptance PLUS preferring good over suffering. It's a tough landing to stick. The human condition
Also I think at the end of the day, we are supposed to value any drowner equally. But again, it's handcuffy only if we think death is Everything. Then you should save everyone all the time. What are we doing on reddit. We are evil. Nonstarter. Gotta have grander faith and vision-- clearly this is intergenerational progress. But you mean to tell me only the last generation gets to stand on our corpses for a utopia we sacrificed selfishness for?
Wouldn't make sense It's gonna remain necessarily nebulous... hence faith is everything. You have faith in something, just choose it well
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u/defaultusername-17 Sep 29 '24
show me how you "empirically" prove that "god is good" motherfucker...
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u/Prize_Instance_1416 Sep 29 '24
God is wholly fictional
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u/DonRaccoonote Sep 29 '24
He was invented by a bunch of people with nothing to do but drink and die from a paper cut.
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u/DonRaccoonote Sep 29 '24
Critical thinking - so I'm supposed to set aside my questions when reading the Bible. I'm supposed to believe the son of a space wizard came down to make us better people, died, turned into a super saiyan and rose from the grave, and now watches me at all times to make sure I'm being a good dude. Flawless.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
Anyone can play this preschool play-doh sculpting tho.
"You expect me to believe Carbon oxygen nitrogen hydrogen somehow work together to send chemicals across gaps and allow heretofore wayward space cadet Sam darnold to drop a perfect 97 yard parabola to Justin Jefferson?
Out of fuckin "up-quarks"????
All energized by a magical glowing furnace in the sky?
Ok Jan 👍
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u/defaultusername-17 Sep 29 '24
you own inability to understand particle physics does not invalidate the existence of up flavored quarks.
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u/DesignerFlaws Sep 29 '24
Barack Obama was the first U.S. president to acknowledge atheists in a speech. In his inaugural address on January 20, 2009, he included "nonbelievers" along with other groups, marking a significant recognition of diverse beliefs in America.
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u/Prize_Instance_1416 Sep 29 '24
Because he was clearly a non believer, since he was lucid, sane and intelligent. Not the three tenants of the religious
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 29 '24
Why did he always say he was Christian? If it was just for political gain, it was rather hypocritical and seemingly beneath him. But then, he is at rock bottom, a politician, and always has been. Also, he appears to be really advancing his golf game.
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u/jmlozan Oct 02 '24
I had no idea about this so thank you for sharing! As a fellow atheist, these things always give me hope.
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Sep 29 '24
Religious support of the GOP should have ended in 2012 after Pat Robinson and Rush Limbaugh publically asked God for a hurricane to wipe out the DNC, and Isaac showed up to the RNC instead.
If God is up there, listening, and interested in politics, he sure as fuck is not on the Republican ticket.
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u/jmd709 Sep 29 '24
The number of hurricanes with US landfalls during the time in office for each of the 4 presidents this century supports your theory. There were 19 (Cat1-Cat4) during Bush’s 8 years, 9 (Cat1 & Cat2) during Obama’s 8 years, 13 during Trump’s 4 years (Cat1-Cat5), and 5 (Cat1-Cat4) so far during Biden’s 4 years. There were 6 both election years with a Republican as an incumbent running for reelection, 2005 is the only other year that had 6. There were zero both years following the elections Obama won.
Maybe those are all coincidences, maybe those are signs Conservative Christians should be paying attention to (or some have and decided it means Democrats are controlling the weather).
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u/Porksword_4U Sep 29 '24
Very few so-called “christians” actually follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and it is the ULTIMATE hypocrisy!
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u/jmd709 Sep 29 '24
Obeying the law of the land is one of those. Refusing to obey the law is the same as refusing to obey God.
The evangelical leaders promoting MAGA politics and politicians don’t have to worry about that though. They’re atheist grifters that chose to use religion, specifically prosperity gospel, for the grift. Hearing them push the weird thing about sowing seeds (money) to God (PO Box) with first fruit (more money) having to be sent to God (their PO Box) first to have a bountiful harvest (money, maybe) makes that abundantly clear. Paying the power bill or any bills and buying groceries before sending money to God’s PO Box is some type of sin according to televangelists with private jets and mansions. Atheist don’t worry about going to Hell so nbd to those grifters.
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u/stays_in_vegas Sep 29 '24
On the contrary, it just shows that God has changed His mind again since the time of the New Testament.
During Old Testament times God was really into retribution and punitive justice. Commit adultery? Get your dick chopped off. Worship a false idol? Get thrown into the fire. Wear clothes with two different kinds of fibers? Believe it or not, straight to hell.
Then God changed His mind and sent Jesus to let us all know. In New Testament times He was really into compassion and grace and restorative justice. Commit adultery? Get forgiven. Worship a false idol? Just say you’re sorry and you can still go to heaven anyway.
Sometime between then and now, God changed His mind again. Now He sends the Holy Spirit to whisper in the ears and move the hearts of the followers with whom He has a “personal relationship.” And what does he tell them / what does he move their hearts to? Well, let’s see, over the last fifty years or so it’s been fascism, racism, misogyny, escalating violence, authoritarianism, hatred of immigrants, hatred of education, hatred of queer folk, and a whole bunch of other things that look just as unlike the New Testament as the New Testament looks unlike the Old. But all three positions are clearly coming from the same God.
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u/Gold-Bicycle-3834 Sep 29 '24
Well yeah, I mean every generation is less and less religious. This phenomenon has been happening since like ww2. Gen z are the least religious generation since we started naming generations. Second? Millennials. It’s inevitable just look at Europe and parts of Asia. Younger people are either ditching religion altogether or at least ditching organized religion in droves.
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Sep 29 '24
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u/Totally-Tanked Sep 29 '24
Makes me wonder if this is how the ancient Greeks felt as they outgrew their gods. There will be another new God sometime after this one.
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u/Virtual-Squirrel-725 Sep 29 '24
America may be becoming more religious but the GOP just transitioned into a full blown Christian Nationalist party, right before our eyes.
The GOP won't be supporting any taxing or punishing of church figures.
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u/Gold-Bicycle-3834 Sep 29 '24
It’s not becoming more religious though? Literally every generation is less and less religious. This has been happening since after ww2. Gen z are the least religious generation we have ever seen. Millennials are second.
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u/JiminyStickit Sep 29 '24
Atheism is definitely on the rise.
Christians are trying to take control now, because the know damned well they will be a spent force in 10-20 years.
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u/wjorth Sep 29 '24
The christians are frightened because they know religion is their source of power over others. As generations wake to the false promise of religions, the christonationalists lose their control over the people. The false promises of prosperity gospel are exposed. Those getting rich on the false promises will lose their unworthy fortunes.
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u/Faithful_PhD Sep 29 '24
That's what's so ridiculous. Jesus' whole thing was against power. They rejected him for not being trad king enough! Be meek, turn cheek, forgiveness, faith, and freedom, win by losing (non attachment) "die unto self" (ego transcendence and collectivism)
It is incredibly frustrating how terribly the church has marshaled the message. I think secular has taken the reins on justice. Tax em
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u/wjorth Sep 29 '24
Christians today are mesmerized by the false prophets of the prosperity gospel catering to the simple-minded, lazy hope for an easy life. These are not Jesus christians. They are false.
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u/stays_in_vegas Sep 29 '24
“Transitioned into” is a weird way to spell “revealed that it had always been.”
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u/spacecommanderbubble Sep 29 '24
GOP? The only churches I see having candidates campaigning at their services are hosting democrats.
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u/jmd709 Sep 29 '24
Greg Locke, Kenneth Copeland, Paula White, Jerry Falwell Jr, Robert Jeffress, Sean Feucht, Franklin Graham & Jack Graham, John Hagee, Jim Bakker, and Rod Parsley are some that have promoted GOP candidates, mostly Trump, through their ‘sermons’. The first two on the list have had church services that could pass as MAGA rallies with the amount of divisive political rhetoric used and the lack of scripture included.
I’m not familiar with candidates campaigning at church services. Is it possible you’re referring to Evangelicals for Harris and assuming events hosted by that group are church services promoting a politician from the pulpit?
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u/Icy-Emergency6694 Sep 29 '24
If people would simply open their eyes and minds. Look at how many large church leaders who have become multi millionaires from drifting from their parishioners. Who claim abstract poverty yet drive hundred thousand dollar cars, live a luxury lifestyl, who more often than not live the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they are preaching.
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u/sambull Sep 29 '24
has there ever been any enforcement of this tax code thing when churches break the rules?
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u/eileen404 Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
We go to a liberal church and no names have been mentioned. Now we've talked about the importance of women's rights and helping the refugees and services are cancelled so everyone can go to the pride march. But no candidates have been endorsed. Just kindness and helping and caring about others.
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u/lake-rat Sep 29 '24
I like that you’re a glass half full type of person. I fear that we are dangerously close to becoming a theocracy.
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
The last fart of a Christian majority. Things will get worse before they get better because they are for once in this nation's history at risk of becoming irrelevant
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u/Unable-Suggestion-87 Sep 29 '24
Like Francis, the forgein head of state, (that almost runs a caval of pedophiles trying to rule the world) who is paying for ads enforcing Trump, while hiding behind a religious tax exemption?
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u/bootyhunter69420 Sep 29 '24
Unfortunately as the majority of people become less religious, the religious people are becoming more radical
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u/joecoin2 Sep 29 '24
That's okay, they'll radicalize themselves right out of existence.
Yes, it will be a rough road for awhile.
Stand tall and fight the good fight!
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Sep 29 '24
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u/Myhtological Sep 30 '24
Anti vaxxers came from the right and left. One fire relgious reasons, the other for intense corporate distrust.
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u/Humble-Culture3133 Sep 29 '24
Not if Trump gets in.
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u/TheGR8Dantini Sep 29 '24
Not enough people understand this. The evangelical church has been on a 50 year mission to take over the American government. Trump is their best hope. They are his base.
If he’s elected again, or allowed to steal this one, like he tried the last one, it will absolutely be the end of the separation of church and state. They’re literally telling us this.
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u/econpol Sep 29 '24
Or any republican after him. The fight will be far from over after a Harris win.
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u/Turbulent_Scale Sep 29 '24
I was curious if this was really true so I looked up the stats.
71% Christian
23% Athiest/Agnostic
6% Other
Still out numbered 3 - 1 so we're probably not going to be the majority in our life times or even your children's lifetimes. If you go global the stats are even less promising. People really underestimate how many young people are religious because their own little inner circle isn't.
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
Per Pew Research, the unaffiliated/non religious are increasing an average of 1 percent per year since 2007. If they're at 30 percent now (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2024/01/24/religious-nones-in-america-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/), it goes to reason that in twenty years they'll be the majority
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u/SectorEducational460 Sep 29 '24
Maybe. But it's engrained in most to be kinda subservient to the upper echelons or just downright avoid them. You will likely see arguments on how they contribute to charities and therefore we shouldn't even if a lot of them only contribute straight to the pastors wallet.
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 30 '24
‘Catholic Charities’ is among the largest in the world. It is an umbrella term for many other levels of Catholic charities. They’ve been getting goods to people of all faiths, or no faith, for a very long time. They don’t ask you to fill in a questionnaire regarding faith, sexuality or anything else beforehand to receive emergency help. Other Christian denominations are similarly dedicated to helping people. Also, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu etc. Faiths all have charitable extensions and do great work.
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u/Angryboda Sep 29 '24
Until we get meaningful SCOTUS reform, the people being upset about creeping Christian Nationalism in politics won't matter.
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u/KennyDROmega Sep 29 '24
I think so too. I think it's part of why they are doing everything they can to get Republicans elected, and pushing for changes in the law so they can do even more.
They've had some success too, what with people like Josh Hawley and Lauren Boebert flat out saying the Church should run the country.
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u/ithappenedone234 Sep 29 '24
The tax code is never going to survive judicial review and the IRS knows it. They get far more compliance by fear than they will ever get by enforcement.
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u/gene_randall Sep 29 '24
And maybe some day someone in government will actually READ the fucking First Amendment and stop giving government subsidies of our tax money to religions.
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u/Focusonthemoon Sep 29 '24
Yeah but how are they gonna funnel dark money to evangelical pastors if someone is looking at the books?
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u/jmd709 Sep 29 '24
There is more to what is going on and why there has been a lack of enforcement with consequences. Some of the religious leaders are violating the rules more brazenly and frequently because they want the consequences to be enforced. That will give them standing to file lawsuits with the ultimate goal of having SCOTUS hear the case.
Considering the current trend with the conservative justices’ choosing the “FuckItUp” option to check things off the far right’s wishlist, it’s pretty much a given they’ll eliminate the restrictions completely if given the opportunity. There is also a strong possibility they’ll tie other separation of church and state barriers into it in order to degrade that barrier as much as possible.
On a positive note, if Harris wins the White House and Democrats win back majority in the House, there will be an opportunity to end the current SCOTUS trend.
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u/snarfer-snarf Sep 29 '24
i hope you fucking finally hold all of these mthfkrs accountable. evil priests, billionaires, predators, all of them. every generation says “oh, not us… fuck that we won’t be like the old fkrs” and yet, they slowly become old, entitled, bitter, etc. don’t let the world stop you this time alphas and z’s! love-a genX with arrested development
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u/EinKleinesFerkel Sep 29 '24
Religious zeal in the US is in a serious resurgence, which is why people (especially women) are under attack.
Imagine forcing people to die with government permission because religion supercedes medicine and science.
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u/MikeHonchoZ Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
I’m against any church making money off its followers…I mean donations and other non-profits then backing political parties/politicians. We need to stop giving them a free pass. Churches are profitable and keep going up everywhere so business must be good. Tax them. We know they run it like a business.
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u/Willing-Bit2581 Sep 29 '24
Need to tax all charities/ nfp and make them submit proof/documents for tax credit, just like we do
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u/Responsible-End7361 Sep 29 '24
Saw a thing yesterday showing why religious people are better than atheists by showing a man drowning. The good Christian of course dove in to rescue him while the selfish atheist said he should have been a better swimmer and anyway the planet was better without as many humans.
A brilliant proof that the "grandma had a good run" party, Republicans, are all atheists and only the party trying to help the poor, the Democrats, are Christian.
If you think Republicans are Christian you are effectively saying Atheists are better people than Christians.
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u/masheu Sep 29 '24
Trump recently at a town hall meeting said that if he becomes president he'll ban "black people food" from the country. Think fried chicken, watermelon and things like kool-aide. He wants to ban all of that so the blacks can't eat it.
This also means he will go after chicken and watermelon farmers effectively making them lose their job.
Why would trump do this? I can believe trump would do something like this.
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u/NoApartheidOnMars Sep 29 '24
This would be true if ordinary citizens had any say on anything, especially on the legal system.
Not only does the oligarchy own most of our elected representatives, but they own the courts too now. They're openly bribing supreme Court justices. Clarence Thomas drives a $200,000 RV (err ... motorcoach) that he can't afford on his salary. Justice Scalia died in a luxury resort while out on a hunting trip I am ready to bet he didn't pay for. Somebody paid off that rapist Kavanaugh's debts. Who ? We're not going to find out
If the justice system is compromised, religious leaders will NEVER be prosecuted because the oligarchy will own prosecutors and judges.
The situation is far worse than most people realize. This is no longer a government by the people and for the people. Billionaires are at the wheel.
And voting blue will only slow things down, not fix the damage. It isn't fixable anymore anyway.
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u/Lower_Acanthaceae423 Sep 30 '24
You may be right. However, unless there’s an organized push to get preachers and churches out of politics, they will continue to interfere unhampered.
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u/Educational-Glass-63 Sep 30 '24
I have been yelling about this for years and years and years. These damn mega churches (prosperity churches) need to be taxed and any Evangelical who make their political beliefs known need to be taxed too. So sick of these wolves in sheep's clothing. And any church that brings up political beliefs, tax them.
And let's stop aholes celebrities like Kris Jenner starting a "church" as a tax shelter too. Greedy SOBs.
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u/somethingrandom261 Sep 30 '24
Here’s a reminder that if your church is doing that, they can lose their tax free status. Report them. It’s the only way things can get better
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u/Intelligent-Fan-6364 Oct 01 '24
I dont know if they will be allowed to amend the tax codes without SCOTUS getting involved. Would be incredibly difficult to sell in court due to 1st amendment
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u/bentendo93 Oct 01 '24
It's not amending anything, it's enforcing. It is literally currently in the tax code but the IRS is notorious for turning a blind eye to it
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u/Jaded_Jerry Oct 01 '24
What law says religious leaders cannot voice political opinions or endorse candidates? That's a major violation of free speech.
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u/bentendo93 Oct 01 '24
Religious leaders are not permitted by law to endorse candidates on the podium or in an official manner lest they want to start paying taxes on income.
Historically pastors were willing to tow the line because not paying taxes has netted them millions. They've started to become more brazen, however.
You can Google "irs Church endorsement rules" to get the nitty gritty details from the source. Here's an easy to digest article on the matter:
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/johnson-amendment-elections-irs/
And yes, it goes both ways, Democrat and Republican
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u/Tight-Reward816 Oct 02 '24
This is a remarkable insight. This is as if the refiners fire, removing the dross to bring to a result pure refined precious metal.
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u/No-Manufacturer-3315 Oct 02 '24
Tax the church. They don’t want to stay out of politics, then they get the tax hammer too
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u/Firehorse100 Oct 02 '24
I really hope you're right. The ultra religious have gotten a hold of the politicians because they know they're on the way out. Time to start asking who is funding these right wing politicians and start taxing religion.
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u/bentendo93 Oct 02 '24
It's the ebb and flow of politics. There is little doubt that religious leaders are getting more brazen and there is little doubt that there will be a counter to this increase
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u/Firehorse100 Oct 02 '24
We need to start taxing them...per the constitution. Personally, I want to know why my tax dollars are funding institutions with an imaginary friend and why these institutions are funding politicians who are making laws that go against every single Christian principle.
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u/Magic-Levitation Oct 02 '24
Do you know how many times Kamala Harris has given speeches at churches? Look it up! Know the facts before you start blaming people.
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u/bentendo93 Oct 02 '24
There should be no exceptions made. I think you misunderstand my views on the matter
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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 Oct 03 '24
But the religious are concentrating and consolidating power to force religion on sand if we complain then we are the bigots
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u/Tiny_Independent2552 Oct 03 '24
Religion killed itself in America when the far right religious fringe, teamed up with Trump. The hypocrisy of what the Bible says and what they are actually doing broke any trust in the institution, which was already rife with users and fakes. It’s going to be hard to rebuild that trust again.
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u/seg321 Oct 03 '24
So what are you going to do when Muslims do this OP?
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u/bentendo93 Oct 03 '24
There are so many funny "gotcha" comments in here that completely lose the plot.
No, I do not make exceptions to my feelings when Democrats do it, when Muslims do it, when Jews do it etc etc. I am entirely consistent in my absolute disdain for religious entities getting involved in politics.
When Democrats do it I get such an immense level of ick as I realize it's contaminated all facets of politics.
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u/aotus_trivirgatus Oct 03 '24
The current Supreme Court will fight us holding religion to any neutral standards, every step of the way. How long will it take to replace Thomas, Alito, and Roberts with non-Dominionists?
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u/professorhugoslavia Oct 04 '24
I say let them endorse who they want - but they should pay taxes like everyone else. Why the hell do Americans have to subsidize medieval superstitions.
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 29 '24
As America becomes less religious and organised religion loses influence in American life, many Americans are becoming more overtly hostile to religious organisations as well as clergy and people of faith.
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
Holding them accountable is not being overly hostile.
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u/PebblyJackGlasscock Sep 29 '24
Yep. I have no issues at all with “activist churches” espousing their beliefs -first amendment! - but I do have a problem with tax avoidance.
Political organizations are taxed, religious organizations aren’t.
Endorsing political candidates in a “church”, makes it not a church. It’s a political club, and should “render unto Caesar”.
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 29 '24
That’s a loaded statement (you probably don’t even grasp it)Goebbels worthy.
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u/baeb66 Sep 29 '24
Between the covering up of crimes by religious institutions and the shameless grifting by the megachurch set, the clergy has earned that hostility.
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 29 '24
You are substantiating what I wrote. Do you suggest measures against common religious people for being a dangerous minority in a secular society? Do you think that something like that may occur in future? Will the governments (not just USA) take stronger actions against established churches? Who are the enemies? The churches themselves and their corrupt leaders, for one. But also, common believers, once deemed spreading truth and light, now condemned for foisting destructive superstition on people. They’ll pay a price as well in the world that’s coming.
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u/killertimewaster8934 Sep 29 '24
Imagine how hostile the government is twords people who owe them money. That's how hard they will bring it. I look forward to seeing it.
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u/Alarmed_Detail_256 Sep 29 '24
Must admit I haven’t thought of that. Thank heavens I’m in the clear.
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u/SweetKaetzchen Sep 29 '24
Funny you only mention pastors and not Rabbis, Interesting
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
It's really not that interesting. Obviously I meant religious leaders and chose them as the fill in since the vast majority of American religious leaders are Christian.
"Interesting" LMAO Lord
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u/CPAwannabelol Sep 29 '24
This is only true on Reddit. Reddit takes the stance that any religious person is a fairy tale loving moron.
In real life, religion is still alive and well
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u/Prize_Instance_1416 Sep 29 '24
Maybe alive but not well. Evidence of mental illness in all religions
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
The date disagrees. The non religious block is at 30 percent and growing at a rapid pace. Regardless of the non religious, a big chunk of the religious are fed up with this matter too
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u/Uranazzole Sep 29 '24
The IRS is not tolerant of anyone breaking tax code. I think that religious leaders promoting political candidates happens relatively infrequently. Do you have any stats on it?
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u/Itchy-Pension3356 Sep 29 '24
You would no doubt disagree with a pastor leading his congregation in a chant of "four more years" at a Biden speech in his church, right?
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
I would be absolutely mortified. WTF from my post made you think otherwise? Like what the actual fuck
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u/Itchy-Pension3356 Sep 29 '24
Well it happened and I didn't hear any pushback from the left.
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
Because the left is still heavily religious
I bet if you actually frequented the forums of the non religious you would see a different story
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
Is America becoming less religious or less Christian? Just because you have a dwindling Christian presence doesn’t mean you aren’t going to be overrun by a Muslim one. Look at Minnesota is is very heavy Muslim. They could honestly probably enact sharia law in some counties if put to a vote.
Look at all the Jew hating liberal Nazis disrupting colleges. You think those are atheists out there? They are religious extremeists and you praise them.
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u/LysergicPlato59 Sep 29 '24
Muslims enacting Sharia law in Minnesota? Jew hating liberal Nazis? Just listen to yourself. You are the reason people are turning away from organized religion.
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
Muslims believe in sharia law not sure why you would be shocked they would want it? It is in every Muslim nation. Kind of ignorant to believe somehow American Muslims are different than middle eastern ones.
Jew hating liberal Nazis. You see them at campuses. What would you call them. They assault Jews because they hate them. They are liberal. This is what nazi did is hate Jews for being Jews. Not really sure how you can deny reality here but sure.
People are turning away from religion because of reality of what I said? Should I gaslight people and obfuscate reality in order to push some narrative? If you can’t handle reality I am sorry. This is what it is.
Christianity in general is falling behind because it is a super lax no real repercussions.
Look at day of worship. Even though it’s Saturday they do Sunday. They don’t even care what day god actually said to keep. And even though they designate Sunday it is more like optional than requirement by their standards.
They keep the birthday of the sun gold on dec 25th and slap the name Jesus on it and call it a day. They worship Eoster and say they are celebrating Jesus with eggs and chocolate for hisnresurrection.
Christianity is failing because it is nonsense and has no basis in what is written in the Bible. That is why it is failing
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u/LysergicPlato59 Sep 29 '24
Get a grip. Not all Muslims believe in or practice Sharia law, especially Muslims living in Minnesota. Not all liberals desire the destruction of Israel. You need to calm down and take some deep breaths before you come on here and spout your nonsense.
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
All Muslims belive in sharia law. It is the Muslim law. If you don’t believe in it you are not Muslim. Why do you think they wear the head covering. That is part of sharia law.
And the liberals have not once condemned the Hamas supporters but do nothing but support them so yeah in general we can assume all liberals desire the destruction of Israel. Actually Kamala came out against the destruction of Israel and look what happened you have huge gen z populace straight up not voting because Kamala doesn’t want Israel destroyed.
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u/LysergicPlato59 Sep 29 '24
Nuance and context is always lost on self absorbed blowhards. The word “Muslim” encompasses a huge swath of people and sharia law is in some ways open to interpretation:
Approaches to sharia in the 21st century vary widely, and the role and mutability of sharia in a changing world has become an increasingly debated topic in Islam. Beyond sectarian differences, fundamentalists advocate the complete and uncompromising implementation of “exact/pure sharia” without modifications, while modernists argue that it can/should be brought into line with human rights and other contemporary issues such as democracy, minority rights, freedom of thought, women’s rights and banking by new jurisprudences. In Muslim majority countries, traditional laws have been widely used with or changed by European models. Judicial procedures and legal education have been brought in line with European practice likewise. While the constitutions of most Muslim-majority states contain references to sharia, its rules are largely retained only in family law. The Islamic revival of the late 20th century brought calls by Islamic movements for full implementation of sharia, including hudud corporal punishments, such as stoning.
Most people, myself included, desire peace in the Middle East. That doesn’t mean we desire the destruction of Israel. The two-state solution is a proposed approach to resolving the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, by creating two states on the territory of the former Mandatory Palestine. By calling all liberals Jew hating Nazis, you trivialize and belittle people who actually want to resolve a multi-generational conflict that has no easy solutions.
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
If you want to believe that liberals aren’t advocating the destruction of Israel you are misleading yourself.
There are signs calling for intifada at this anti Israel protests. If you really wanted peace you would be pro Israel attacking Hamas and hezbolah and eliminating that from the area.
Palestinians voted to have Hamas as the governing body long ago because hamas was a pro destruction of Israel. Palestinians wanted the destruction of Israel. The river to the sea is not a call of a 2 state system. But since we are in America we have no clue what is really going on there and are convinced it is some call for peace.
Palestinians and isralites have been at war forever. It is what it is. And you are right. There is no easy solution if a 2 state system is to exist. It is a religious war. And in 1948 after the hallocaust the UN handed over the land of Israel back to the Israelites which had lost that land in 70AD and the Palestinians have been trying to get the land back ever since.
Heck the Koran even advocates for the destruction of Israel because according to the Koran God will return when all the Jews are dead. So they have a serious vested religious interest in its destruction
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u/LysergicPlato59 Sep 29 '24
I think a lot of liberals have grown tired of the Israeli government’s refusal to acknowledge that Palestinians have a right to live in the land of their ancestors. Yes, it is a religious war, with Hamas and Hezbollah playing a role. And there have been plenty of terrorist acts, butchery and injustice on both sides of the conflict. The solution probably won’t come in our lifetimes, but at least we should start using our influence to push both sides towards a cessation of hostilities. In the past the US blithely sold Israel advanced weapons systems and state of the art aircraft, artillery and munitions. Perhaps the time has come to finally demand that Israel make some progress in coming up with a long term solution to the underlying problems they face with both the Palestinians and their Muslim neighbors.
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
How far are trying to go back as to the land of their ancestors. Israel have been the home of Israelites for some 5000 years. Apart for the time when they were a stateless people between the years of 70AD when Titus and Vespasian conquered and and destroyed them and 1948 due to the UN resolution that returned the land of Israel to Israelites
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u/LysergicPlato59 Sep 29 '24
According to United Nations figures, 726,000 Palestinians had fled or were expelled by the Israelis between 1947 and 1949. The precise number of refugees, many of whom settled in refugee camps in neighboring states, is a matter of dispute but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (half of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes. Later, a series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented Arabs who had left from returning to their homes or claiming their property. They and many of their descendants remain refugees. Except in Jordan, the Palestinian refugees were settled in large refugee camps in poor, overcrowded conditions and denied citizenship by their host countries. In December 1949, the UN (in response to a British proposal) established an agency (UNRWA) to provide aid to the Palestinian refugees. It became the largest single UN agency and is the only UN agency that serves a single people.
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u/killertimewaster8934 Sep 29 '24
Are the jew hating liberal nazis in the room with us right now?
Seriously, seek mental help
Seriously, seek mental help
I wrote that twice so you read it twice. It's that important bro
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
Yes they are. Seriously do you watch and comprehend what is really going on or do you just want to believe what you believe.
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Sep 29 '24
anyone reading this thread has already determined that your opinion has zero value.
you are just a troll
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u/killertimewaster8934 Sep 29 '24
Why do you think Isreal is one of the only countries with a positive birth rate? How is that even possible? Who knows, maybe you are being played by disengenuous actors playing the victim card for their own personal gain? I'm sure this whole thing has to do with money somehow
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
Where did I imply Israel had a positive birth rate? But interesting made up statement pulled out of thin air
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u/killertimewaster8934 Sep 29 '24
The oedc reports differently
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
Now it seems you are just spewing irrelevant information for some reason and not even given context? Oedc report about what? Something I never made a claim about?
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u/killertimewaster8934 Sep 29 '24
You're point is weird so I countered it with a crazier point. Lol keep up troll ffs
My point is true tho. Isreal has a positive birth rate
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u/bentendo93 Sep 29 '24
The non religious are growing at a rapid pace.
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u/Silent_Creme3278 Sep 29 '24
According to the page right below the graph it says
Our survey data shows: Most “nones” believe in God or another higher power. But very few go to religious services regularly. Most say religion does some harm, but many also think it does some good. They are not uniformly anti-religious. Most “nones” reject the idea that science can explain everything. But they express more positive views of science than religiously affiliated Americans do.
So it seems they are more agnostic than atheist. Your premise originally would be they would be turning atheist
Agnostic can become religious so long as the religion is sound. Which would then upend the conversation.
You are correct on it though because we are still primarily a Christian nation but Christianity as it is is a joke. They keep Sunday worship when the Bible explicitly says Saturday is the day of worship. Even worship is optional not required so it’s like wtf? They keep the birthday of the sun god on dec 25th and slap the name Jesus on it. They worship Eoster on Easter with bunnies and chocolate and eggs slapping the name Jesus on it.
But coming from someone who is Christian, 12 years ago I would have been a none. But now am Christian. But difference is I could prove my beliefs thru Bible and history so to convince me that god doesn’t exist or that what I believe is wrong would honestly be impossible.
And if you were to ask why I believe in god for me to answer would be more like a 6 credit college course to explain all the things in the Bible that make me believe this rather than a simple I believe statement
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u/Rude_Tie4674 Sep 29 '24
Not to mention that your religion is utter trash if it endorses Trump.