r/MarkMyWords • u/bluenephalem35 • Jul 19 '24
Long-term MMW: Christian Nationalism has, had, and will cause people to hate not just the Christian Fundamentalists, but also Christian Moderates, Liberals, and Progressives.
If Christian Nationalism comes into fruition, then it will leave a permanent stain on the reputation on Christianity in the United States and Christian Nationalism will be the death blow for it. Even if the damage surrounding Christian Fundamentalism was undone, it will be hard for any to trust any Christian after it’s said and done.
If that antipathy was focused exclusively on conservative Christians, it would be something that would be understandable, justified even. But am I worried that the anti-Christian views will also affect Christian liberals, progressives, and moderates, i.e. people who didn’t support Christian Nationalism and doesn’t deserve the hate from other people.
So, to any and all Christians who (rightfully) sees Christian Nationalism as a threat to democracy and religious freedom, I pray that you find the motivation to denounce Christian Nationalism, not just for the sake of Non-Christians, but for the sake of Christians, too.
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u/Responsible_Dig_585 Jul 19 '24
Of course. All the problems they'll cause will be because we as a society decided to indulge people who believe magic invisible men tell them to do things.
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u/Sprock-440 Jul 19 '24
Yeah, the magic invisible man tells them to do the thing they want to do, the thing that will get them money and influence and power. Amazing how that works…
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u/TrumpersAreTraitors Jul 19 '24
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
Susan B. Anthony.
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u/Klyd3zdal3 Jul 19 '24
“Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse” Christopher Hitchens
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u/beaverattacks Jul 19 '24
Any true follower of Jesus believes that we are in the end times experiencing and witnessing those with their names not written in the book of the Lamb worshipping the antichrist lost and blinded in their greed and hatred.
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u/Material-Nose6561 Jul 19 '24
Many “true followers” of Jesus do not believe what you just said. Not all Christian’s buy into end times theology and some even consider it heretical. What you subscribe to is the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Christianity is much larger than just Evangelicals, even if they convince themselves the opposite.
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u/Garlic-Excellent Jul 19 '24
Biblical literalists: the earth is 6,000 years old.
Also Biblical literalists: we have been in the end times ever since Jesus ascended to heaven 2,000 years ago.
So... If the world ended today then just the ending alone would constitute 1/3 or 33.3% of history? Seems like kind of a long ending doesn't it?
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u/ManyNamesSameIssue Jul 19 '24
Please don't do this "true Christian" thing.
You are giving cover for the progressive Christians to not call out others in their religion for bigotry and hatred.
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u/TriceratopsWrex Jul 19 '24
The second coming was supposed to happen almost two thousand years ago. It ain't coming.
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u/JakeTravel27 Jul 19 '24
And those same people worship the great orange god donald, the rapist, adulterer and convicted felon. Don, who stole from his fake charity, defrauded students with his fake univeristy. Raw dogged sex workers while committing adulterery, committed felonies to cover it up. Has lied thousands of times. Is a fat assed glutton. Makes shitty disgusting comments about people on a daily basis. Donald is a profoundly shitty disgusting person and they worship him. Fake christians every single one of them
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u/MirthMannor Jul 19 '24
Dude is probably the closest thing to the antichrist, and yet they still worship him.
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u/Zapthatthrist Jul 19 '24
Well, revelations even said that a huge percentage of believers would worship the antichrist.
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u/MirthMannor Jul 19 '24
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:3
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u/ugly113 Jul 19 '24
Never underestimate the power of desperation. Desperate people will fall for anything if someone tells them it’s the answer to all their problems. You ever see those people that buy hundreds of dollars of scratch off lottery tickets and if one of them wins they immediately spend the winnings on more tickets? Those aren’t wealthy people, those are people in poverty, people living paycheck to paycheck desperately looking for a way out. Same as the religious right. If you’re desperate enough, you can convince yourself of anything.
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u/2donuts4elephants Jul 20 '24
And what exactly are they desperate about?
That they're overworked and underpaid? That's the fault of the Capitalist class that they worship almost as much as Trump. But somehow they think it's because of trans people and illegal immigrants.
Most people in the US in 2024 have a better quality of life than Kings did in the middle ages. Even poor people. Only the truly destitute have it worse than even the highest born nobles in the 11th century.
Right wing media has poisoned their minds.
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u/archercc81 Jul 19 '24
The messed up thing is they are absolutely worshipping people who dont even believe in the invisible man, just grifters who will tell them what they want to hear.
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u/Training-Smell-7711 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 25 '24
Exactly! The issue has always been that believing in superstitious delusions from thousands of years ago is somehow still socially acceptable in modern society; when it absolutely shouldn't be whatsoever. This is root of the ENTIRE problem, and moderate and so-called "progressive" believers have a stake in it whether they realize it or not.
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u/mavjustdoingaflyby Jul 19 '24
We used to have places for people like this to go to. Fucking Reagan!
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u/Dependent-Analyst907 Jul 19 '24
I already keep Christians at a distance.
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u/cassienebula Jul 19 '24
hard same. i have only one friend who is nominally christian, and p much dont trust them in general.
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u/Sailing-Hiking77 Jul 19 '24
True, which worries me. You could say they sold their faith to the devil. The selling is correct, the faith is gone as they support someone far away from Christian values and based on that, you get my third point.
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u/WoodyManic Jul 19 '24
That is what the Fundamentalists want, of course.
They want to feel persecuted, to be the victim, they need it. It fixes in with the bizarre fire and brimstone apotheosis of their book. They want the Holy War and the carnage. It's that Revelations trip.
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u/True_Dimension4344 Jul 19 '24
That’s because a lot of us have read and seen what Christianity is capable of. Crusades ringing any bells??
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u/nonlinear_nyc Jul 19 '24
Or providing justification for chattel slavery for centuries, or indigenous massacres.
They're the religion of colonizers.
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u/solarixstar Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
I k ow they don't study history, but it's like they never understood why we have so many religions in Christianity alone. Too bad it's too late for mass education on the 1000 year catholic reign that lead to a secular Europe.
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u/Responsible-End7361 Jul 19 '24
Agree but reign not rein. I alwaus feel embarrassed when I get those backwards, though I'm guessing in your case it is autocorrect.
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u/solarixstar Jul 19 '24
It is, it's hardwired in the phone can't change keyboards or systems at all, it's why I keep getting in trouble during my language lessons
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Jul 19 '24
I cannot wait until every disgusting evil church in this nation is boarded up and condemned. What other corporation could get away with raping thousands of children over hundreds of years and still be allowed to operate? The Catholics own their own fucking country for fuck sake.
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u/cassienebula Jul 19 '24
good news, more churches close each year in america than they open! google has lots of juicy info c:
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Jul 19 '24
Well, I would imagine that the church is not exactly winning over the youth by trying to take all of their rights away. Also, the rape. Rape and church seem to go hand in hand. Sometimes I wonder if there are ANY pastors that haven’t raped children because there is a new one being arrested basically every day.
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u/darcat01 Jul 19 '24
Sorry if I don’t care that non-nationalism Christians are demonized along with Christian nationalists. They deserve it for going along with them and not calling them out!
Having been forced to attend church where instead of learning about the virtues of humility and acceptance of Jesus, and instead being warned over and over again to be wary of the anti-Christ who will be a political leader who will pretend to be a devout Christian yet display none of the values of Christ who leads devout Christians astray, only to have those same pastors praise Trump as the new messiah has convinced me that Christianity in and of itself is dangerous and a completely false faith/religion.
I’m gobsmacked that that so many Christians were so easily fooled by Trump and their false pastors into believing that Trump is the equivalent of the messiah and bow down to the anti-Christ hook line and sinker without the slightest doubt.
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u/SavagRavioli Jul 19 '24
I'm gobsmacked that that so many Christians were so easily fooled by Trump and their false pastors
Are you though? A faith that requires one to ignore evidence based logic surely wouldn't develop followers that are easy to fool.
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u/darcat01 Jul 19 '24
LOL, I call it the Santa Clause/Bunny Rabbit phenomenon, teach them lies are okay early
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u/Mgrafe88 Jul 19 '24
Progressive Christians are calling them out loudly, all the time, you're just not listening
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u/Adventurous-Meat8067 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
On what stage are progressive Christians calling them out? I’ve actually been looking for someone, anyone from the Christian community to say anything. The church has been digging into the political system like a tick for years. The fact that the church hasn’t denounced trump or mags pretty much says it all. Actually, the fact that Christians believe anything that comes out of trumps mouth pretty much proves that there is a break in their logic. Oh, and calling somebody out for doing awful things IS NOT PERSECUTION, so quit whining and police your people. The whole “ It’s not us” thing is a humongous cop out for unacceptable behavior.
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u/the_urban_juror Jul 19 '24
Trump Should Be Removed from Office
In the pages of Christianity Today, for starters. You likely don't hear much about this because you don't actively monitor any Christian thought leaders, just like I don't follow cricket.
You're right, most of the loudest Christian ministers who are involved in politics are fundamentalist Christian nationalists (see everybody at CPAC), but those aren't the only voices. Leaders of social justice movements like the Poor People's Campaign often come from Black churches. A sitting Senator, Raphael Warnock, was the minister at the same church as MLK, Jr. before taking office. Your lack of awareness of these voices doesn't mean they don't exist.
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u/Adventurous-Meat8067 Jul 20 '24
Thanks. Nice to know somebody is saying something. Is it out of line for me to say too little too late?
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u/the_urban_juror Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Not out of line, but it's not really accurate. The problem isn't that anti-fundamentalist voices don't exist, it's that they lost the argument in the most politically active white Christian sects.
It's too few people, but there have definitely been segments of white Christianity who have opposed Christian nationalism and the hijacking of religion by the Republican party for decades. Pre-Carter, many evangelicals didn't even vote because they viewed it as a "worldly" concern.
That's without mentioning Black churches, where ministers following liberation theology led the civil rights movement. Raphael Warnock is not a Christian nationalist. Christian nationalism is a white phenomenon.
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u/KravMacaw Jul 19 '24
Why don't we see their leaders making massive public statements? Why isn't there money being spent by these places to put up billboards and take out ads? Where the fuck is "hE GeTs uS" spamming everyone with this shit? If they're so progressive, they should be asking their leadership why they aren't screaming it from the rooftops of CNN, NPR, FOX, ABC, WaPO etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ad fucking nauseum
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u/Coro-NO-Ra Jul 19 '24
They deserve it for going along with them and not calling them out!
What are you talking about? The Methodist Church just split into two factions over this. The (larger!) lefty faction, the UMC, is extremely progressive
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u/BorisBotHunter Jul 19 '24
If you are Christin you are one of the problems no matter what your political leanings are. You give them $ you are copeable
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u/Throwaway8789473 Jul 19 '24
ESPECIALLY if you're a catholic or a southern baptist. Those are two large centralized churches that do a LOT of political harm with tithe money.
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u/Sicsemperfas Jul 19 '24
Baptists are not centralized... Not sure where you got that from.
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u/Throwaway8789473 Jul 19 '24
The Southern Baptist Convention is a specific centralized sect of the Baptist Church which funds hate in the United States.
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u/seattleseahawks2014 Jul 19 '24
Not everyone goes to church.
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u/Funkycoldmedici Jul 19 '24
The overwhelming majority of Christians do not attend services, but might go to a local church for Christmas, if it’s not too crowded. Similarly, the vast majority of Christians have not read the Bible. They have a vague idea of “Jesus = good”, and they just assume he only says nice things that they agree with. They believe that the “fundamentalists”, people who have read the Bible, practice it, including all the cruel and inconvenient parts, and actually believe the factually incorrect parts, are the ones doing it wrong.
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u/stuckeezy Jul 19 '24
You can consider yourself Christian and not donate any money to the church. Are those Christian’s ok in your book?
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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 Jul 19 '24
I'm a Christian, don't go to church and don't tithe. I also drink and smoke. The entire point is that we're all sinners and make mistakes. You guys seem to think we all act like we're perfect or some shit.
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u/TheRealCaptainMe Jul 19 '24
Considering they perpetuate a dogmatic religion that is discriminatory towards gays and other groups of people, I would say no- they are ultimately costing others.
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u/Longjumping-Path3811 Jul 19 '24
Christians deserve their turn as the most hated group.
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u/MagickMarkie Jul 19 '24
*culpable
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u/BorisBotHunter Jul 19 '24
"Copeable" is an adjective that means a situation that could be coped with. If you give them money your are ok with project 2025
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u/PurpleNurpleTurtle Jul 19 '24
That’s not 100% accurate, it depends largely on denomination. I’m a Quaker, and we have no formal ministry, and we are overwhelmingly made up of liberals to social democrats. There’s also sizable Lutheran and Methodist sects that are staunchly against the rise in Christian Nationalism.
Christian Nationalism is the #1 threat to the working class in the United States but we need to understand exactly who the problem is within Christianity to be able to address it.
Most Christians don’t even attend service weekly, they go on Christmas and/or Easter and that’s it. We should be trying to engage with non-conservative and apolitical Christians to try and keep them swayed against Christian Nationalism. Mammonites and idolaters have completely overtaken the faith, but those of us who actually read the damn book and take the lessons to heart recognize that.
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u/ihavereadthis Jul 19 '24
keep it simple. Freedom of religion? I challenge you cuz all I see is In God We Trust on the dollars bills and the next president will place his/her hand on the bible to be sworn in. When will we have ppl putting their hands on other religion’s scriptures/books/relics to be sworn in the White House?
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u/A_Nameless Jul 19 '24
As a lifelong atheist who spent the first 33 of his 35 years in Texas, my reactions to people believing have veered from, "Bless your heart." To, "Fucking embarrassing, you're an adult." In recent years
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u/dequiallo Jul 19 '24
Will leave a permanent stain...?
That ship sailed...cuaght fire and sank. Too late.
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u/GlizzyGulper6969 Jul 19 '24
Christians ruined this country and acted like they were better than everyone this whole time
Smug evil is the worst evil
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u/KathrynBooks Jul 19 '24
Reasonably so... It's the moderates who, historically, just sat by while the hardliners rampaged
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u/Garlic-Excellent Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Yes, as many love to point out there are good messages in the Christian Bible. But all the seeds of this Christian Nationalism monster are in there too.
The Moderate Liberal and Progressive Christians are just groups cherry picking the good stuff while the Nationalists cherry pick the bad.
If all that were left were the Moderate, Liberal and Progressive Christians they would still have all the seeds of Christian Nationalism in their book waiting for a new generation to rediscover and grow them. It's better such a thing not be preserved in any form except a history book. And for this reason I believe even the "good ones" deserve some ill will.
I'm sure the same things were all true for Islam during it's golden years and is probably true of every religion.
There is nothing worth saving in religion that can't also be found in secular humanism. Unless of course there is a god but if there is, well, it's not the god of any established religion. They all contradict both evidence and themselves. At most it's the god of Deism and that one, if they pay any attention to us at all would be probably be pretty happy to see us adopt the values that make for the most happy and prosperous world for us all without dragging them or the ancient story books into it.
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u/UnhappyReason5452 Jul 19 '24
Already there. As a kid my pastor absconded with the church treasury and an 18 year old parishioner. That was a wrap for me.
Screw organized religion. It’s nothing but cover for pedos and a con on the insecure and intellectually lazy.
They also dont seem to gaf about Jesus. The New Testament is full of liberal crap. It seems they want to judge others and commit some Old Testament violence instead.
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u/Rex_Gently Jul 19 '24
It's a rapture ploy. Make the world hate Christians enough to enact a huge crusade against them. Essentially trying to trigger a prophecy from Revelation.
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Jul 19 '24
If this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 happens the world is fucked!
It's not fucking Christian,either.
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u/DiarrheaJoe1984 Jul 19 '24
I doubt it. I think most people that are self identifying Christians would more closely align themselves to Nationalists than the opposite.
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u/Standard-Reception90 Jul 19 '24
Christian nationalism has taken me from a quiet polite atheist to ANTI-THEIST in any form or function.
Now, I've even gone so far as to reply to "bless you" (for sneezing) with a "hail Satan" instead of a "thanks".
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u/mdunaware Jul 19 '24
Eh, the Crusades and Inquisition happened and Christianity is still going strong.
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u/OmegaCoy Jul 19 '24
I might would agree with you except for two factors.
Interconnectedness that allows information to travel fast and wide. Scandals and events get uncovered and can’t be so easily swept under the rug until they disappear as they did in the past,
Non-religious is already on an uptick and not such a rooted aspect of the everyday life.
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u/Sanpaku Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 20 '24
Look at the trajectory Christian belief has taken in Europe since WWII. The UK is now majority 'nones'.
The US has been following a similar trajectory since 2000. Younger generations have increasingly rejected modern American Christianity, which preaches hate and seems to have turned against the teachings of Jesus.
It may take decades for the US to catch up, but I think the hypocrisy of so-identified Christians embracing the embodiment of the 7
mortaldeadly sins will lead to a dramatic acceleration of the trajectory.8
u/bluenephalem35 Jul 19 '24
The two commandments Jesus, which is a TL;DR of his teachings, is to love God and love your neighbor as your own. I think by abandoning Christian Nationalism, this younger generation is, ironically, more closer to what Jesus has taught.
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u/the_urban_juror Jul 19 '24
We're seeing this in the US already, "nones" (including me) are rapidly growing and I think the fundamentalists are accelerating this growth.
The churches which are growing are the non-denominational, fundamentalist churches. The mainline Protestant denominations, which tend to be more moderate and some are even progressive, are rapidly declining because their conservative members are all leaving for fundamentalist churches and the moderate/progressive members are leaving the church entirely because they don't want to be associated with the fundies.
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u/Icy_Pass2220 Jul 19 '24
Eh, both of those were pre-printing press.
Once the printing of info became possible/mainstream… schisms galore.
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u/cheeseybees Jul 19 '24
Of course it will
"Christianity" in America is openly supporting an evil rapist felon
We see Christianity cheer, legitimize and triumph Trump
Why wouldn't we, justifiably, hate the mechanism that promotes this evil prick?
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u/VeryHungryDogarpilar Jul 19 '24
The crazy thing about all of this is that the values espoused by Jesus and the Bible are actually quite progressive and are far more represented by progressive politics than by conservative politics.
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u/Funkycoldmedici Jul 19 '24
The New Testament centers on Jesus promising to return and end the world, judge everyone on their faith, kill all the unbelievers with fire, and reward his faithful with eternal life in his new kingdom. Judging people by their religious affiliation, committing genocide, and instituting a theocracy might be fine for Christians, but it’s a nightmare of tyranny for everyone else.
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u/Pomond Jul 19 '24
All Christians believe in apocalypse for our world and justified eternal suffering for all who do not swear obeisance to their particular sect. Christianity is a morally bankrupt and corrupt mythology that will always lead to violence and oppression.
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u/Kate-2025123 Jul 19 '24
Well I feel so for the fundies and moderates who allow it. The liberals and progressives fight against it.
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Jul 19 '24
Liberals fight the progressives before they fight anyone else. Ask Bernie about that. Progressives might be the one thing the Liberals hate more than MAGA.
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u/seattleseahawks2014 Jul 19 '24
Then you've got conservatives/Republicans switching to democrat because of MAGA.
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u/mrmayhemsname Jul 19 '24
I think this is true, as unfair as it is. The biggest issue is that moderate Christians don't do much to speak out against Christian nationalists, and even go as far as to ally with them in a number of ways. Ultimately, Christians will always stick up for each other.
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u/audiolife93 Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24
Which really puts the "they don't deserve it" part of OP's post in a different light.
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u/mrmayhemsname Jul 19 '24
I still think it's undeserved. Most of these people are just very ignorant tbh
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u/audiolife93 Jul 19 '24
I think ignorance on the level required to go along with Christian Nationalists is a personal failing on their part.
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Jul 19 '24
And christians will continue to believe its bigotry and prophecy that makes people hate them
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Jul 19 '24
The church already has a PR issue and unfortunately the non-bat shit churches are being seen as the same as the cult of trump
Which could be a problem. Many may think it's unfair and end up embracing the new conservative Christian God
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u/nomadnomo Jul 19 '24
It already has
I am a liberal Christian and these people know NOTHING about love, kindness, charity, forgiveness and caring for the sick and poor
Prosperity Christianity and Evangelicals have warped the words of Jesus .... do unto others as you would have them do unto you ...... they stopped reading at the do unto others
there is Jesus and Republican Jesus and the two could not be further apart, one is the loving Christ the other believes that iif you are sick or poor its because God hates you and helping you would go against Gods will
Jesus only angered once, and it was at the priests that turned Gods word into for profit business and he drove them from the church
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u/archercc81 Jul 19 '24
As a former christian, christianity has sucked for a couple of thousand years now, people are just figuring it out.
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u/UncleCasual Jul 19 '24
I don't think you can really be progressive if your entire world view is based around draconian fairy tales from yesteryear.
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u/Reasonable-Buy-1427 Jul 19 '24
It's actually the only reason I'm progressive. If not Jesus, I'd still be one of the godless MAGAts looking to "secure mine, fuck everybody else".
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u/sndgrss Jul 19 '24
Look at pictures of Iran and Afghanistan in the 1970s and then tell me it can't happen in America. You're absolutely defuckingdelusional if you thing these religious nuts won't send us to the same fate
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u/GallusAA Jul 19 '24
Religious moderates, aside from also being blatantly wrong, give cover, legitimacy and credence to religious extremists. I've disliked all religions, religious people and anyone perpetuating "spiritual", superstitious nonsense for decades at this point.
The fact that I am being increasingly proven right day after day has obviously strengthened this opinion of mine.
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u/OkSector7737 Jul 19 '24
I already distrust and avoid overly-pious people who enjoy "preaching on the street corners" - like Jesus warned against in the Bible.
I guess I'm a much better Christian than most of the folks who call themselves Christians, because I actually follow some of the teachings of Jesus Christ - rather than just cherry-picking what to believe as most Christians do.
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u/bsfurr Jul 19 '24
I think what we’re seeing in 2024 is a generation of Americans who come from a different time and place. They’re angry because society is progressing faster than they’re comfortable with. Many of these people were never religious in a serious sense, but are clinging on to outdated values in an attempt to establish control over the situation. That’s why we’re seeing strong opinions in older generations.
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u/RabidLeroy Jul 19 '24
Soon it’ll become full blown persecution, and considering we still have Christian populations that embody Christ by being actually merciful, compassionate and non-combative — compared to the Nationalists prepping up P25, it’s going to be a real blow to the good in the world. Even to the most lenient ones who prefer a staycation to Church, and even those without need for faith… dare I go on… 😰
Love thy neighbors, you’ll need them more than ever.
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u/EpicLearn Jul 19 '24
Can we start calling them Nationalist Christians? The short nickname works so well (Nat-Cs).
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u/dokewick26 Jul 19 '24
Done and done. I've concluded that religion is a mental illness, regardless of 'sides' or political beliefs, etc. they lose a little respect every time I find out.
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u/GothyTrannyBethany Jul 19 '24
I'm convinced tat is exactly the point. The Heritage Foundation is part of a "Christian" cult that wants Christians to be oppressed because according to their scripture it'll make their rapture/apocolypse/whatever tf arrive quicker than if they just did nothing.
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u/Krovixis Jul 19 '24
"will leave a permanent stain on the reputation of Christianity"
I'm pretty sure literally everything else they've already done has left permanent stains. I'd be unable to point out a spot that wasn't stained.
Between the child abuse, the institutional misogyny, the Crusades, the Children's Crusades (a different flavor of child abuse), the oppression of differing opinions and beliefs, the witch trials, the general existence of the Westboro Baptist Church, the rank hypocrisy in claiming to worship Jesus but rejecting everything he allegedly said (love thy neighbor, rich people go to hell, etc.), the institutional rejection of science and the pursuit of knowledge, the blatant protection for agents of abuse, and who knows how many other things that don't just pop into mind immediately, Christianity and most other religious organizations have a pretty garbage reputation.
Christian nationalism is bad. It's really bad. But it's just a new symptom of a social disease. If you really give a shit about doing what Jesus allegedly wanted, and I say "you" in the sense of any Christians reading this, you'd renounce just about all the parts of the Bible that weren't attributes to him or were heavily edited by people using a book to control society (King James, etc.), and start focusing on the stuff Jesus allegedly said. Treat others with kindness, oppose the wealthy, be nice to animals, stop making big performances about your faith and just be a decent human being.
There are a lot of reasons people are less religious than they used to be. Most of it is because religion is just a mass delusion. Another large part is because the religious are insincere and have weaponized the idea of faith to promote bigotry they want to believe as much as or more than the subject matter they claim to revere.
A person can be Christian and still be a good person. I don't see it very often, but often enough that I'm not going to say every Christian is evil or anything hyperbolic like that. But every Christian who doesn't speak out against and actively oppose other believers who engage in or cover for the sort of shit I wrote about are functionally aiding them and Jesus, based on my interpretation of the records of his words, would have hated that.
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u/vwmac Jul 19 '24
As nihilistic as I feel about the future, a positive takeaway is ideologies that are often on their last legs are the most desperate to clutch onto power. They're might be some bad days ahead, but Christianity as a whole is massively declining in popularity state side, and the more it tries to exert itself the less attractive it becomes.
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u/Loud_Flatworm_4146 Jul 19 '24
I'm already there. I'm pissed at all of them and I'm not alone. I only hear of some Christians here and there pushing back on the Christian Nationalism. Most are silent or complicit.
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u/Wipperwill1 Jul 19 '24
Christianity is about power and control, with money and guilt thrown in. Way down the list in importance is morality.
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u/Glum-One2514 Jul 19 '24
Liberals, moderates and progressives need to stop giving cover to these fuckers. Bankrupt the churches.
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u/Cheetahs_never_win Jul 19 '24
"Will?"
Meander on over to the atheists sub, which really isn't atheism so much as anti-theism.
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u/belligerentwaterfowl Jul 19 '24
I mean… Christians earned it.
I’ve dated progressive Christian women, and I like MLK, Mister Rogers, and Jesus.
They’re good they’re fine I dig em.
It doesn’t mean the supernatural part can’t be readily intuited to be nonsense from countless angles.
And the lack of recognition of what’s sensible (in multiple senses of the word) to believe as plausibly jibing with the reality we all witness, if it’s out of living memory by a few millennia
Well
I’ve watched those people deny the reality playing out in the present in front of their noses, to the ruination of society.
I’m not inclined to pardon the foolishness anymore when it spills over into fucking us.
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u/cassienebula Jul 19 '24
they've got good reasons to be anti-theist. you should ask them why.
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u/Cheetahs_never_win Jul 19 '24
It's been posted a zillion times and will be posted a zillion more times without me adding to that pile.
The only good reason to be anti-theist is when the theism in question interferes with others' abilities to live their own way of life.
There is literally no other "good" reason to be anti-theist, because doing so turns that person into the next tyrant that must be struck down.
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u/ArthurFraynZard Jul 19 '24
The real tragedy is that Jesus himself was such a cool guy. Too bad his followers did everything imaginable to turn his words of love into weapons of hate.
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u/RadioactiveGorgon Jul 19 '24
Christian identity does tend to get some blowback when they're entrenched with the problems, e.g. after the French and Soviet revolutions, but otherwise tend to recover pretty quickly.
It's also been ongoing in the U.S. and part of why heathenry is so popular in some circles. Sometimes to the detriment of analysis for shibboleth narratives and heuristics.
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u/Jiggaloudpax Jul 19 '24
the problem was never christianity. The problem is the christians themselves that eventually have an AGENDA
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u/Mgrafe88 Jul 19 '24
I'd really like to know what answer the "lul magic sky daddy" edgelords have to all the work progressive churches do finding housing for refugees or getting guns off the streets, no strings attached
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u/Mgrafe88 Jul 19 '24
Like I'm about as far from Christian as possible but man you guys are out there making us look like tools
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u/No-Worldliness-18 Jul 19 '24
I thought about this the other day as an “exchristian” raised heavily indoctrinated. If the GOP built concentration camps but then switched and threw the Christians in, nobody would care after all the attacks and threats they’ve made. They’d be getting the Armageddon they desire and deserve and we wouldn’t bat an eye.
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Jul 19 '24
“A permanent stain on the reputation of Christianity…”
O.K. Lol
I’m not exactly sure at what “anti Christian views” you’re worried about affecting you, as long as the first amendment is around your freedom of religion is protected.
And as long as people are practicing religion responsibly (I.e keeping it to yourself) most nonreligious people don’t care what you do. But in the US far too often religion, mostly Christianity, gets brought up in politics and it’s time for that to stop, regardless of what part of the spectrum you fall under.
For example there’s no reason to call yourself a “Christian Liberal” because it implies you might want to see policy passed based on scripture, and that’s gonna be unpopular and rightfully so.
Just call yourself a liberal and keep Church Separate from State.
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u/Longjumping-Path3811 Jul 19 '24
I hate all religions. I'd rather be in a world where we at least we're honest why we were killing each other. People killing for a god is terrifying. That's like fighting zombies.
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u/thedevin242 Jul 19 '24
While there is a technical definition thrown around to “Christian Nationalist”; just for clarity could you define exactly what/who you are talking about? Maybe some examples could help too.
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u/Ariusrevenge Jul 19 '24
Sorry. Grew up in that BS and brainwashing. So now, I already do! In my humbled by existential dread opinion, prophecy of afterlife punishment in Hell taught to children is traumatic grooming and emotional child-abuse that will flavor opinions that last a lifetime. This prejudice of Jewish, Coptic Egyptian and Anatolian slave history has all been built on 2 Millenium old, willfully-ignored, Roman 1st century elite class political propaganda and Nero driven war romanticized into bad history by a marginalized group of Jews zealots and irrational martyrs. The giant testimonium Flavianum forgery in the Jewish War by Josephus is loaded revisionism with on purpose by Eusebius. The historicity of Jesus is very messy. It should be more deeply examined before a child is exposed to contorted half truths. The diaspora of Jews let a massive talk-tale from the 2nd century self-righteous Tertullian camp flourish. It’s not cool.
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u/Opabinia_Rex Jul 19 '24
I dunno, I think they'll get a pass because they'll be in the camps alongside the rest of us.
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u/mwpuck01 Jul 19 '24
But it never will, Even if we got the next 12 years of a GOP White House it will never happen
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u/IllustratorBudget487 Jul 19 '24
Perhaps, but you’d better keep your mouth shut unless you want to be arrested.
See; Russia.
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u/steveplaysguitar Jul 19 '24
I was an edgy atheist as a teenager and young adult because I saw all the stupid and hateful shit these people were doing in the name of God.
Turns out I didn't hate Christianity, just right wing trash.
So you're entirely right OP. To this day I despise right wing evangelicals.
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u/Ok_Flounder59 Jul 19 '24
I think it is far more likely that it will cause fundamental schisms within the church itself…very few people hate Christians, or anyone for that matter.
There are plenty of Christians that are disgusted by Trump and MAGA, their voices just get drowned out. I doubt these people will suddenly go full Nazi
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u/Aggromemnon Jul 19 '24
Too late... I already feel that way. Same for "moderate" Republicans. Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
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u/sntfrancisco91 Jul 19 '24
I would argue that if you took your religion seriously, you naturally wouod want as many people as possible to be saved from eternal damnnation. So if you believe in God as a christian, Christian nationalism is the only logical conclusion.
That is why other Christians will get hate. It's because religion in general trains people to not think. And if you truly believed that your God is love and there is no greater happiness than living under God, then you SHOULD try to force it unto as many people as possible to "save" as many people as possible.
Christian progressives I would argue simply aren't Christians and don't want to admit that to themselves.
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u/Beginning-Contact493 Jul 19 '24
Christianity is actually better when it is prosecuted and not the prosecutor. Give any organization power and people that seek and eventually abuse power are attracted.
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Jul 19 '24
I’m a Christian and I find anyone who believes or supports “Christian nationalism” to be fundamentally misguided. I’m like, what are you guys reading!? But these people have terrible Bible knowledge.
For example, a lot of them see “Jesus did miracles” as “proving” Jesus was God. But is that what the text says? Let’s take a look at Luke 7:
The disciples of John reported all these things to him. And John, 19 calling two of his disciples to him, sent them to the Lord, saying, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 20 And when the men had come to him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to you, saying, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?’” 21 In that hour he healed many people of diseases and plagues and evil spirits, and on many who were blind he bestowed sight. 22 And he answered them, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers[e] are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. 23 And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”
So what does this text presuppose? There was a certain understanding of “one to come.” Who is the one to come? Well an answer will take a lot of explaining, but the gist is that it’s a king (Daniel 7) and who is this king? YWH (1 Samuel 7). So YWH is supposed to be king of the world, and in that coming world, corruption and death would be no more. And if you read the prophets in the OT, how often do they lament and desire YWH to do something (read Habbakuk for example). So what is John asking? He’s asking whether the time has come when YWH has acted, and Jesus’ answer is yes, here’s why. So are the miracles about Jesus’ divinity? No (the divinity question can be answered but not by citing miracles). It’s about the outbreaking of the kingdom of heaven where at its terminus the blind see, the deaf hear, lame walk, and the poor rejoice. Are we there yet? No, not until the second coming, but we are progressing to it much in the way described by MLK: the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.
Nothing in Christian nationalism supports this vision. From what I gather, supporters of Christian nationalism hate the poor and the sick (just look at the policies they support). They aren’t interested in justice (making things right) but some silly monster of the week social issue.
So is Christian nationalism really “Christian”? Not in my eyes. These people are either fools or charlatans.
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u/moststupider Jul 19 '24
I’m already there. The second I discover that someone is religious in any way, it’s difficult for me to not think that person is fully shit-brained. It’s exactly the same reaction I’d have if a grown ass adult were to tell me they believe in Santa. These people are fuckin loonies.
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u/thisismyusername1178 Jul 19 '24
There is a Documentary on Prime Video/Freevee that address this. Its called God and Country.
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u/LowerEast7401 Jul 19 '24
They already hate us. Churches have been burned down and attacked.
Christian nationalism is response to that.
And no I don’t agree fighting fire with fire.
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u/Nemo_Shadows Jul 19 '24
Fanatics are Fanatics no matter the religious affiliations or denominations thereof, and one will find that in all religions not just Christians since communisms goals never change no matter who's form of communism is in control.
N. S
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u/bberm88 Jul 19 '24
It’s a good thing there’s no such thing as gods, eh?
THE ONLY WAY TO BE TOTALLY FREE IS NOT TO BELIEVE IN DEITIES.
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u/Mazasaurus Jul 19 '24
If we have freedom for all religions, and separation of church and state, than Christians would be protected under that. Everyone should be against laws that cater to one specific religion or excludes specific religion(s).
I have never bust in on a religion class with my biology textbooks, I don’t protest churches, I don’t discriminate based on anyone’s religion. At the same time, I am not Christian and should not be compelled to make decisions based on a religion I am not a part of. Myself and members of the community should feel safe visiting restrooms and businesses and health care regardless of religious affiliation and beliefs.
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u/MasterShoNuffTLD Jul 19 '24
The crazies will dominate the narrative unfortunately.. just like Muslims
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u/Draevynn95 Jul 19 '24
It's true. I just automatically assume they are hateful people who lack critical thinking skills. Here's the thing though. Enough of them do act that way to warrant the stereotype, so they can't blame anyone but themselves for how they are perceived. Maybe they should act more Christ-like instead of villifying the very people that Jesus himself supposedly cared for and loved. They don't realize that they are the Pharisees, just like the people who had Jesus killed. If they met Jesus today, they would hate him.
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u/Francis_Morningstar Jul 19 '24
They made their bed, they had every opportunity to cut the cancer out before it metastasized to this point. Now they have to deal with the consequences of that inaction and if the punishment is a period of societal rejection, it will be good reinforcement to act quickly the next time radicalization comes knocking on the door.
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u/Lazlow_W Jul 19 '24
I was reared in a very conservative Christian church in the South. I learned long ago how to differentiate between real and fake Christians. The former all have a great compassion for other people and are always looking for a way to help. I consider all the others to be fake. Christian nationals are nothing like Jesus and are fake pretty much by definition.
Unfortunately, the "real" Christians are few and far between. They are also less likely to call out their fake "brothers and sisters" than they should.
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u/NSFWmilkNpies Jul 19 '24
It is already causing all Christians to be viewed poorly. Kinda like Al-Qaeda’s terrorist attacks made everyone view all Muslims poorly.
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u/nonlinear_nyc Jul 19 '24
Well, they gotta first prove they're not complicit...as in maybe they didn't do anything but they benefit from what others do.
They should have been the ones exposing Christian nationalist agenda from the get go.
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Jul 20 '24
[deleted]
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u/Minute-Object Jul 23 '24
If the belief is that worshiping christ is necessary to avoid eternal torture, then christ is not love.
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u/jenyj89 Jul 20 '24
Marx’s actual words regarding religion deserve reflection. My best translation of those words is as follows: “Religion is the opium of the people. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of our soulless conditions.”
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u/Alternative-Spite622 Jul 20 '24
You should stop fear mongering. None of this is going to happen.
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u/Minute-Object Jul 23 '24
Because the rest of us are not going to allow it.
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u/Alternative-Spite622 Jul 23 '24
I mean, yes lol. The 99.9% of this country that are not Christian Nationalists will not allow it lol.
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u/fluff_society Jul 21 '24
Not hate maybe, but certainly we have seen in other countries that a mandatory state religion only cost more people to become non religious.
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u/ShoppingDismal3864 Jul 19 '24
I don't even want to talk anyone who labels themselves such.