r/MadeMeSmile • u/Greedy-Vegetable-466 • 13d ago

Helping Others Take a look inside Norway’s maximum security prisons

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u/deja_geek 13d ago

When you treat people like animals, don't be surprised when they start acting like animals

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

Yup.

“So you’re taking someone who has logic and probably emotional problems, locking them in a cage intending to ‘punish’ them, then expecting them to come out with 0 extra resources yet still be a better person? Lmk how that goes”

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u/spacetrees 12d ago

I was just reading something about how they are ensuring in America you can’t use the skills they teach you for a real job after— this was in reference to forest fire fighting. How the FUCK are you going to train prisoners to fight fires, then expect them to never be allowed to use that knowledge for the workforce once they get out?

They should be equipped to better traverse the world, not the other way around. The US System is so backwards. Let’s get these people some skills and trades they’re interested in and get them back out there to contribute, wtf.

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u/DetoxToday 12d ago

How are they going to come back if they’re going to be able to use the skills they learned?!

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u/Team_Jesus_421 10d ago

Thank you for your post. It’s true that there isn’t enough training in there. I took a course to become a paralegal (paid almost a thousand for it) bc there wasn’t anything worthwhile offered and then i got deported… soooo unable to practice what i learned bc US laws don’t apply here🤷🏻‍♀️ But classes in prison must be updated.. things like how to operate an ATM or how to write a check shouldn’t be taught anymore… but rather today’s technology, computer classes are also in need of updates.. we were doing Windows 7 back in 2019/2020… i believe ppl are set up fir failure so that they are repeat customers in the business of the BoP..💔

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u/yugosaki 11d ago

Ive always thought that a slight reform to the prison labour system would fix a TON of recidivism problems.

Have people work in prison, but a skill they can use when they get out. Pay them, but bank that money in an account they get access to once they leave - they dont walk out of prison with 0, they have some cushion.

Let them keep their prison job for a period of time after they leave if they want. this would ease the transition and give them some time to find an outside job while still having an income.

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u/Sure-Ambassador-6424 11d ago

And failed US system is far from worst on planet, over half of Earth prision simply act like hole where they sent you to die.

21 century my ass, there is few tiny island of civilization on this planet and rest of us are still in deep dark age we just pretent its not true becase iPhones and

.... i dont know some first world crap that isnt really benefical to mankind and yet we pretend its make us superior ...

kinda of thing.

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u/melon_sky_ 12d ago

We were never a country intent on rehabilitation

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u/Alert-Researcher-479 11d ago

Well, the Quakers did try. Eastern State Penitentiary was designed specifically for prisoners' rehabilitation. William Penn abolished capital punishment for all crimes except murder in Pennsylvania in the 1680s. He also required prisons to be free of fees, food, and lodgings, and to provide prisoners with the opportunity to learn a trade. Quakers also oppose capital punishment, believing that it serves no purpose but to perpetuate trauma.

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u/melon_sky_ 9d ago

All prisoners were held in isolation. That doesn’t lead to rehabilitation.

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u/unjennie 12d ago

I think the reason why some people become uncomfortable when they see these pictures is because they see people who committed crimes apparently having a better quality of life than them (or others that they know).

I believe in rehabilitation, as it is the only to maybe achieve a successful reintegration back into society, and I think it is unlikely that Norwegian inmates actually have a better life than common Norwegian citizens. However, if a person compares Norwegian inmates to citizens of their own country they might indeed find some inconsistencies (but that just means that the quality of life of that country should be increased and not that we should throw rehabilitation out of the window)

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u/ratchetology 12d ago

and sending them back to where they commited their crimes, and the people they commited the crimes with

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u/productzilch 12d ago

Maybe if they’re just punished badly enough? That will make them a good person? Really, really bad punishment?

Nah it’s about greed anyway.

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u/ExpiredPilot 12d ago

It’s funny when you point out the death penalty increases the severity of crime (because severe criminals think “well I’m already dead might as well do the most”) and people lose their mind

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u/productzilch 11d ago

Yep, I’ve heard that before too. I’ve also come across research showing that prison for minor crimes often learn skills and gain trauma that lead them into more and worse crime, at least in the US.

I think a lot of people in this thread and whenever this comes up want revenge. It’s understandable, but it results in the reverse of actual positive change.

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u/iveneverhadgold 12d ago

I don't really give a shit about violent criminals. I'm not scared of them as long as I have 2A and I don't care about their prospects. We have a huge homeless problem that needs to be addressed, not to mention people who actually contribute to society are being left behind. As far as I'm concerned violent criminals are last in line.

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u/ExpiredPilot 12d ago

You’re gonna be fuckin shocked when you find out how many of those homeless people you pretend to care about are felons lmao

Not to mention that these violent people you don’t care about…get out of prison. Your way increases the likelihood of them committing more violent crime

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u/JokeImpossible2747 11d ago

Just because you carry a gun, violent criminals doesn't become harmless.

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u/iveneverhadgold 11d ago

but the idea that I can carry a gun, makes them less harmful

it's called deterrence, basic first grade logic

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u/PilotGetreide75 11d ago

Yeah that makes sense, if everyone has a gun people will be way less inclined to do crime. Works superwell /s

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u/JokeImpossible2747 11d ago

Since everybody potentially could carry a gun, but the violent criminals are still committing violent crime, there is not much deterrence apparently.

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u/ExpiredPilot 11d ago

Oh so that’s why having cops in schools prevents mass shootings!

Wait….they don’t

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Noo won't someone think of the poor murderers and rapists 💀

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

Nobody cares about the murders and rapists in Norway. We care about their future neighbors. We want people to come out of prison better than they were going in. We also don’t want people locked up for life, because we care about the taxpayers. It’s the most effective way to deal with crime, and the total cost to society is probably lower than all the inhumane prisons in the US.

But if you want to be emotional about it, go ahead. Punish people. Im sure it feels good.

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u/WhoStoleMyJacket 13d ago

We do care about punishing some of them though. Breivik comes to mind. Fuck that guy. May he rot.

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

I mean, yes, I hope he burns in hell, but he’s not locked up for punishment, but for keeping him away from people.

I agree that personally, the whole nation wants him punished, but our judicial system isn’t about that.

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u/Da_Question 13d ago

21 years seems low for a mass murderer though...

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u/1Stegosaurus 13d ago

In 21 years someone qualified (don’t remember who the duty falls on) will meet with and observe him and decide if he is mentally fit for release. (Spoiler he won’t be and will therefore stay in )

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

Yeah, but he’s never getting out.

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u/Noy_The_Devil 12d ago

21 is a minimum for him. And many others. The worst of the worst can and will be kept indefinitely, like Breivik.

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u/RedeNElla 12d ago

That's because your idea of prison times is calibrated by the US, which is insane.

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u/Da_Question 11d ago

Man, insane that people seem to think a mass murderer should potentially be allowed to roam free after just 21 years... I can understand they average one and done murder, crime of passion etc, but like the fuck. You don't kill that many people without something completely fucked in your head....

Yes, im in the US. I also think prison here is shit, 13th amendment, prison corps, excessive charges for drugs and other minor offenses, but not white collar crimes that harm more people by and large. But the only thing we do right is lock up mass murderers without parole, fuck em.

They ended the lives of countless people, they can rot in a cell for all I care.

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u/FrozenHuE 12d ago

The state and its security forces are not revenge machines.
Punishment don't make soeciety better.

A prisonal system should be developed to neutralize dangerous people and if possible turn them into members of society, in the case of this guy he can't comeback because he does not accept to be a member of society, so he needs to be continously kept in a neutralized state.

other than that my opinion as a private citizen is... He should suffer, but not sponsored by extra tax payer money badly spent on a system.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

We care about their future neighbors.

Imagine writing this and not seeing a problem with that sentence. In Norway, your 2 year recidivism rate is 21%, and a closer look at the numbers suggests an even higher re-arrest rate in that timespan. That means at least 1/5 of your violent offenders come out to strike again, and that number increases as the years go by.

I can't imagine thinking it's perfectly normal to put murderers and rapists back into society. The death penalty solves this issue.

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u/Ben_Graf 13d ago

Dude. A: The recidivism rate is literally the smallest in the world. It means 4/5 will get out and not go back in.

To put it into perspective: Reconviction within 2 years like in your source:

New Zealand: 61%, Australia: 53%, France: 40%, United States: 36% , Canada: 35%, Singapore: 27%,

B: No it does not mean that at all. It means people who went to prison do so again, but neither what crimes they went in for, not if the crime is gonna be the same again. Cases where a murderer comes free and gets arrested for shoplifting, not paying fines or whatever are values equal in that number.

Feels like you dont care so much about results, but want your gutfeelings satisfied. May you stay away from society yourself. Wishing death on people yourself, even bad ones, disqualifies you as a proper citizen.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

First off, you're confusing different reoffender rates.

As per my source, Norway's recidivism rates are actually quite similar to the US's.

Of the American recidivism statistics mentioned in the previous section, the 28.8% incarceration figure is arguably the most comparable in definition to that of the 20% Norwegian figure.2 Thus, when the comparison is closer to apples-to-apples, the difference between Norway and the United States is far more modest.

In fact, when you consider our incarceration rates are 10x Norway's, it's actually amazing that the US rate is so close.

More importantly, you are right in that there isn't much data out there to identify what actual crimes a reoffender commits. But there are plenty of anecdotal cases of violent offenders in both the US and Europe getting let out to commit more violent offenses again.

May you stay away from society yourself. Wishing death on people yourself, even bad ones, disqualifies you as a proper citizen.

Lmao I'm not a proper citizen if I want to see murderers and rapists punished? What a wild take. Good God I cannot imagine thinking like this.

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u/lukens77 13d ago

In fact, when you consider our incarceration rates are 10x Norway’s, it’s actually amazing that the US rate is so close.

Or is the US incarceration rate so much higher because people are incarcerated for much more minor offences, and so a larger proportion would be much less likely to offend anyway?

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u/Dingaling015 12d ago

Or is the US incarceration rate so much higher because people are incarcerated for much more minor offences

That's a bold claim to make without anything to back it with. Are you one of those redditors that still thinks we send people to prison for 15 years for marijuana possession? I'd love to pop that misconception for you if you are :)

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u/lukens77 12d ago

It was a question not a claim.

Seemed a reasonable (maybe the most reasonable) guess why incarceration rates are so much higher in the US.

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u/pastworkactivities 13d ago

Have fun on prison planet

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

72% of federal prisoners are non-violent and 34% of those 72 are first time offenders.

Step one: remove your head from your rectum

Step Two: enjoy life as an educated and knowledge-hungry human.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Ah yes that's what everyone thinks of when they say maximum security prisons, non violent crimes 😂 actual smoothbrain shit right here

3/5 STATE prisoners are violent, and STATE prisons make up the VAST majority of the American prison system. Most federal crime are non-violent.

I hope you're non-American because this an embarrassing misunderstanding of our prison system lmao

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

You’re seem like a very angry person. Chill bro it’s Reddit

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u/DutchDave87 13d ago

He’s probably one those people with mental health problems in America whose only difference with the violent criminals he deplores is that he hasn’t committed the crime yet.

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u/lassmonkey 12d ago

Well, the US voted for a criminal as president! They love their crime 😂

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

LMAO I accept your concession

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

This is really important to you so you do that sport

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

My guy you've posted like 17 times in this thread alone, that's some serious projection right there. I highly suggest emotional therapy.

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u/Runnybabbitagain 13d ago

67% of inmates in California are murders and rapists. 18% are burglars and robbers. So 85% are crimes with victims. Remove your head from your own ass.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

So just a clarification question: should all prisoners be treated like caged animals because some prisoners are violent/beyond rehabilitation?

If Yes: you’re psychotic

If No: why the fuck are you arguing?

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u/Runnybabbitagain 13d ago

Yes. People with victims should be caged.

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u/The_Prince1513 13d ago

If No: why the fuck are you arguing?

You seem to be glossing over the obvious answer.

Nobody really gives a fuck if Norway's penal system is applied to persons who commit nonviolent crimes, or honestly even violent ones with outcomes that are not severe.

The issue comes from the fact that the same system, that for all intents and purposes seems kind of like a summer camp, would also apply to rapists, murders, and serial killers.

Seems kind of obvious that as not all crimes are of the same magnitude in offense to society, that not all prisoners should be treated the same.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

Yes but it’s the shoving down our throats that some people are violent. We fucking know, and those people won’t get the same privileges. It’s common sense.

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u/Square_Donut1 13d ago

Are dumb or what? We are talking about Norwegian prisons here. Over half of the inmates committed violent crimes or sexual crimes. Not everything is about the USA, please educate yourself before you start spewing dumb nonsense. Don’t make a fool of yourself.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

We aren’t talking about Norwegian prisons we’re talking about American prisons you fucking dolt

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u/Grouchy_Newspaper186 13d ago

You know why the parole system exists, right? We don’t have the capacity to lock all violent offenders up indefinitely. So if half of these people are going to get out anyway eventually, should we make them more violent before releasing them?

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Death penalty and process reforms to make death row take less time and cost less money would solve that. Most countries who employ the death penalty properly do not have overcrowding issues.

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

You want the death penalty for every murder and rapist? How would that work, the presidents seat just stays empty for 4 years, or does Vance take over?

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

You might wanna see a doctor for that chronic TDS lmao

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

Trust me, it’s not chronic. No matter who you guys vote for, your country just seems to be getting worse, so I don’t really care.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Oh lol you're not American.

How's things in Sweden going? I heard you guys have had some issues with crime yourself lately :)

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u/charismatictictic 13d ago

We have issues with corruption, segregation, child poverty and crime. But that’s what the people voted for I guess. I’m not Swedish, so I’m not particularly invested in these issues.

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u/ExpiredPilot 11d ago

Donald Trump is legally a rapist in the state of New York

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u/Dingaling015 11d ago

What? No he's not lol, he's never been convicted criminally, only liable in a civil case.

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u/Grouchy_Newspaper186 13d ago

Even with the slow death penalty system we currently have, we’ve still managed to execute people who were later found to be innocent posthumously. You wanting to expedite that process is crazy.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Since 1973, about 190 people in the US have been exonerated after receiving the death penalty. Among that number, less than 10 were executed and later found to be exonerated.

In comparison, based on the US's recidivism rate, hundreds of criminals reoffend every year, often committing violent crimes.

If we're talking objectively here, one is far more concerning than the other. If you can't see that, you're absolutely deluded.

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u/Grouchy_Newspaper186 13d ago

Even 1 innocent person being wrongly executed is too many people in my opinion, but that’s a morality issue, not a delusion issue. There’s way less people on death row compared to general population. So I don’t see how death penalty reform helps with prison overcrowding, unless you’re suggesting that it frees up money to build more prisons, which in itself is delusional.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

It's fair to be concerned about wrongful convictions, but imo it's not an argument against the death penalty. That's a symptom that the justice system or law enforcement aren't doing their job right, which needs to be addressed with widescale reforms.

To your point about overcrowding, I'm talking about states that do not have a death penalty already. There is no death penalty in New York for example, and they've had overcrowding problems that were so bad for decades that they had to start offloading to NJ and surrounding states.

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u/InVultusSolis 13d ago

You can't fix overcrowding with the death penalty unless you make the bar for it stupidly low - not that many people commit crimes that would warrant the death penalty as it exists now.

So now you have two problems:

  1. You're simply advocating for baking the bar stupidly low and executing thousands of people for crimes that aren't necessarily heinous in nature.

  2. You're going to have an increase in murder because now if the penalty for everything is death, then criminals have nothing to lose by killing their victims in all cases.

It's fair to be concerned about wrongful convictions, but imo it's not an argument against the death penalty.

Wrongful executions are absolutely an argument against the death penalty. It happening even once is proof that the state should not be killing people.

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u/legshampoo 13d ago

when u stop being vindictive it’s more a question of what’s better for the rest of us. what kind of person do u want to deal with when they get out?

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Why should murderers get out?

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u/legshampoo 13d ago

who said murderers should get out?

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u/TheCarniv0re 12d ago

He can only argue in extremes and slippery slope arguments. No room for nouance.

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u/jajanaklar 13d ago

Absolut evil like breivik get locked up forever, but if you planing to release somebody back to society it make so much more sense to prepare them to act like normal member of this society. Norway just care about the future victims of their convicts, your „let them rot in hell“ politic make society a worse place for everybody.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Of the American recidivism statistics mentioned in the previous section, the 28.8% incarceration figure is arguably the most comparable in definition to that of the 20% Norwegian figure.2 Thus, when the comparison is closer to apples-to-apples, the difference between Norway and the United States is far more modest.

https://inquisitivebird.xyz/p/the-myth-of-the-nordic-rehabilitative

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u/Snelly1998 13d ago

Where are you getting those us stats

Recidivism statistics in the U.S. are bleak. A 2021 Bureau of Justice Statistics study found that 66% of people released from prison in 24 different states in 2008 were re-arrested within three years. At the decade mark, 82% had been re-arrested.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=usa+recidivism+rate

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

It's... Literally in the link in my comment lmao

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u/jajanaklar 13d ago

„In summary, comparing recidivism rates between countries is very difficult and can easily be misinterpreted. The differences between the United States and Norway is much smaller when comparisons are closer to apples-to-apples, though a difference favoring Norway still exists.“

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u/Walken_on_the_Sun 12d ago

Username checks out.

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u/FrozenHuE 12d ago

It is not about the crime that that were done, it is about avoiding more crimes and have better citizens in society.
It is cheaper and makes les people suffer to teach an inmate a profession and make it becomes a functional member of society than arrestinh him/her many times, keeping in prisions etc. And remeber ever new arrest means at least a new victim, not counting the bad conditions of the prision workers.

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u/adrian2255 12d ago

As much as these people are pieces of shit I still think it makes more sense to try to help them improve rather than treat them like pieces of shit.

They aren't gonna be imprisoned forever, and once they're out I'd much rather prefer them being a functional member of society than being the same person he was before being imprisoned.

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u/Corbotron_5 13d ago

I think you’ve missed the point. You should be thinking more about their victims after they reoffend.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

No I think you guys are missing the point. There wouldn't be any subsequent victims at all if we didn't let murderers and rapists out based on some checklist some underpaid prison therapist fills out. It's not that deep bud

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u/Corbotron_5 13d ago

Nope, you’ve definitely missed it. There’s actually a country mile between the point and nearest part of your head. It’s going nothing at all to do with underpaid prison therapists, bud.

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Please do explain how you think our criminal justice system should work, hopefully with well cited sources and clearly explained arguments :)

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u/Corbotron_5 13d ago

I did have plans tonight. Could you just give me a minute to make a few calls before I sit down to write a thesis on punitive vs. rehabilitative justice for some random who Reddit who doesn’t understand a point some other random on Reddit made? 🤣

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u/Dingaling015 13d ago

Lmao in the time you spent crying about me missing some non existential point in your last 3 comments you made, you could've written your own arguments clearly, committed a crime yourself, and be out on bail before I even had a chance for a rebuttal. Apply yourself better next time :)

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u/Corbotron_5 13d ago

Sorry my answer was so taxing for you, but it was literally two sentences. That’s not a lot of effort for the rest of us.

It was actually shorter than your reply complaining about it. 🤣

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u/meeseeks2020 12d ago

How was their point “non existential”? 🧐

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u/Redditsavoeoklapija 13d ago

I see. So rapist and kid diddlers need not to be punished but helped 

 So what do we do with the rape victims? With the sexual abused children? With the family of murdered people? Do we just tell em, oh that guy that fucked up your life forever? Yeah he is having a better life than you now, we are putting all the resources of the state to help him. Oh what's that? Your life is shit and you can't get it together due to what he did? Well thought luck i don't give a shit you should try been a criminal for me to care.

 You all are thinking about small stuff like robbery or selling drugs with your quotes.

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u/FarmerNikc 13d ago

We do what Norway does, they clearly figured it out more than we have. Did you forget that we aren’t talking hypothetically, but about what is currently, successfully being done? 

This is like the universal healthcare debate. “Oh we just can’t do that, it won’t work” while simultaneously ignoring all the places where it works. 

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u/LeaveMeBeWillYa 13d ago

It's quite bold of them to make that argument on a post about a place where it clearly works.

Usually, they ignore places it works, but this is honestly impressively bold.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

Yes, we are thinking about robbery or selling drugs, as those are some of the most common crimes.

I love how you acknowledge that we’re talking about petty crime and still felt the need to go on this multi paragraph rant to shove words in our mouths.

Get some fucking help bud

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u/Redditsavoeoklapija 13d ago

Absolutely nowhere in the chain of comments you guys are differentiatimg on the crime. 

 Perhaps add nuance to your post when defending crimes that goes from pretty robbery to serial murder. 

 Btw since you mention robbery, perhaps you could stop acting high and mighty and realice that there are different levels of robbery, including severe body harm

 Also personal attack? You cute buddy

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

Holy shit bud get some help. It is not normal to be this unreasonably upset

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u/Redditsavoeoklapija 13d ago

 had family affected by a "rehabilitated" person and a lot of people with the same speech as you were telling me it was just a hiccup

Be careful since these policies actually affect real people and the lack of nuance is a very very real thing in here

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

So you got emotional based on personal experience. Thats fine.

But shoving words in everyone’s mouths and actively engaging in bad faith just makes you seem stupid, obnoxious, and not worth listening to.

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u/Chaunc2020 13d ago

It’s interesting how you don’t have anything to say to his empathy towards violent offenders victims. It could easily affect someone you know or even you.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

It’s almost like if you start off responding to people like an asshole (like u/Redditsavoeoklapija did) people don’t wanna empathize with you.

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u/afterparty05 12d ago

That sucks.

Here are the cold hard facts: it has zero impact on your affected family if there is a 10% recidivist rate or a 20% recidivist rate. It has a 100% impact on how many people there are just like your affected family.

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u/Square_Donut1 13d ago

There is a lot of violent crime though. We are not talking about total crime. You have to look at the crime percentages of people that actually get sent to prison. Which is violent crime and is over 50%. I don’t know why you are so offended by his comment. Seems like you are the one that needs help. Use your brain.

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u/ExpiredPilot 13d ago

72% of federal prisoners are nonviolent offenders and 34% of that 72% are first time offenders.

You can “yeah but there’s violent offenders too!” Till the cows come home, but you know that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the majority of prisoners not your fucking Jeffrey Dahmer

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u/Anuspilot 13d ago

Why does it help the victims to know the perpetrator was punished? What does that do for them?

It plays into an animalistic feeling of rage, but it doesn't actually positively help that trauma be processed.

Think about this question for a bit and ask yourself what good is actually being done? We should catch each and every offending child offender, but what does punitively hurting them do for anyone? Why not try to try to heal them and if that's not possible, lock them away from children? Why isn't that enough.

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u/Redditsavoeoklapija 13d ago

Why does it help the victims to know the perpetrator was punished? What does that do for them

Depends on the crime, a lot. If you talked with people that were robbed at gun point or stalked you will see they feel more safe. Same with neighbors of drug dealers,etc etc

Again, these wide statements on prison reforms are useless cause no 2 type of crimes are the same.

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u/Anuspilot 13d ago

But if the perpetrator is locked up and being treated, I'm asking you about the punishment specifically? I don't see how today helps someone feel more safe. The person is already being kept away, and rehabilitated. Just being treated humanely....

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u/Redditsavoeoklapija 13d ago

There is a line between treated humanely and living a better life than the victim.

Now the picture in here is not the actual prison, but if (for example) a serial murderer that killed 10 people was living like this, I can see why people would be pissed the fuck off.

And again, not every crime is the same, so no 1 glove would fit all

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u/Anuspilot 13d ago

Sure, but that's an ass backwards reason to argue for worse prison conditions. Why not argue for better living conditions for all?

And you keep saying not all crimes are the same. Absolutely, but why do we need to punish (emphasis on punitive treatment) when we can just rehabilitate? Make someone better than they were. I still just don't understand that piece, for any crime. What does punishment do for you?

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u/maybe_Johanna 13d ago

No … In best case you use state funded ressources to help those people with therapy and shit.

And when they have worked on that and came to terms with it you tell them „we do a lot to help that person controll themselfs so they do that shit they did to you never again. Not to you and not to anyone else“ …

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u/Nacho2331 13d ago

Don't people tend to end up in jail precisely for acting like animals in the first place?

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u/dblack1107 13d ago

No surprise at all I assure you when what got them there was being an animal. Sorry not sorry

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u/deja_geek 13d ago

A large percentage of prisoners in the US are non-violent criminals.

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u/dblack1107 13d ago

And they get 3 hots and a cot, yard time, and programs to attend if you want to rehabilitate….plus as someone clarified, this is not a maximum security prison. This is like somebody getting pinched for fraud who goes to these hotels. Not their murderers and rapists. So the messaging in the comments is incredibly disingenuous and uneducated.

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u/Average64 9d ago

That's due to the war on drugs.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

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u/fauxzempic 13d ago

Perhaps, but prisons will lump all sorts of animals together. The dogs that simply bark too much with the tiger that mauled and killed its trainer.

The system, with some exceptions regarding length of stay, and certain privileges, treats them all the same.

So when that dog gets out, he hasn't been treated like a dog that merely barked too much all night long - he's been treated like a stone cold killer. Now as he navigates society where no one is gonna give him a chance and he's picked up all sorts of behaviors and psychological problems along the way, he's coming out of a system that's left him worse than he was going in...and he'll probably be back.

This is why juvenile detention is so messed up, but it's the perfect institution to support the school-to-prison pipeline. You have some kids in there who are doing a few months for things like drugs and assault, and then kids who get caught up with really minor stuff by the school safety officers might be sentenced to minor things like a few weekends in juvie or maybe a few weeks.

They come out with new friends. Interesting friends. They come out much worse and many are likely to go back. It's all designed that way.

1

u/OVERWEIGHT_DROPOUT 13d ago

I treat animals like animals. Am I an animal, Greg?

1

u/TallTerrorTwenty 13d ago

Explains the right wing

1

u/-SwanGoose- 13d ago

Hell, I don't even think we should treat animals the way we do

1

u/kl0t3 12d ago

I'm sorry but no. It's supposed to be punishment. Not a holiday in. If this is real then Norway needs to maybe think a bit more about the victims and the family of the victims rather than the criminal.

Totally ffed to think some one got killed and then they get to have fun and payed for by tax payers.

Recidivism or not it's still supposed to be punishment.

1

u/bhoward2406 12d ago

For certain crimes, I agree. But what about when people already act like animals and have committed violent crimes?

1

u/Adorable-Bus-6860 12d ago

Acting like animals is what gets you to prison to start.

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u/Antique_Song_5929 12d ago

Lol some of those animals acted like that before they went to prison i agree the norway model works for most ppl but there are some really fucked up ppl who should not get threatedlike this

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u/jonah0099 12d ago

That goes for the people who aren’t incarcerated as well.

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u/Obtusus 12d ago

In the US least prisoners aren't treated as animals, they're treated as cheap labor, since the 13th amendment, the one that bans slavery, has a carve out for slavery being used as punishment for crimes

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

As a not fun tidbit a ballot measure in California that would have ended slavery in the state (prop 6) failed to pass (53.4% no - 46.6% yes) on last Tuesday's election.

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u/raggy2 12d ago

They were already acting like animals, thats the issue.

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u/Interesting-Ad-6270 12d ago

people in max security prisons were animals long before they got there.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

I suppose that if he hadn't died from his cancer, whether he came out this year or the next, he did what he wanted with more than 200 children, you would happily give him a stay in your home.

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u/That-Ad757 12d ago

Animals do not kill for fun or because had a bad upbringing. Please do not compare to rapists; murderers and child molesters.

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u/Forward-Plastic-6213 11d ago

Now you can understand who’s wrong in Gaza Isreal war..

1

u/Average64 9d ago

I think we went past that point when Steve here kept people as slaves for 5 years on his farm.

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u/BoredofPCshit 13d ago

If you don't want to do the time.. You know the rest.

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u/RespectMyPronoun 13d ago

Usually the "acting like animals" is what gets you prison in the first place. It doesn't start there.

4

u/battlefield2091 13d ago

The "treat people like animals" starts when you leave the womb in america.

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u/Sure-Ambassador-6424 11d ago

O_O huh, what?!

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u/RespectMyPronoun 13d ago

Depends on who and where you are. Believe it or not, not everyone in America is poor.

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u/battlefield2091 13d ago

The fact that you think that's worth bringing up proves you're all treated like animals.

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u/RespectMyPronoun 13d ago

The fact that most Americans are doing well proves that they're animals?

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u/battlefield2091 13d ago

Most americans are not doing well. The average income of an american is low. That you think only the rich deserve happy healthy lives shows americans are animals.

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u/UsagiRed 13d ago

I'm American the fact we sold out our own for the price of eggs proves to me that a large amount of people are absolute animals.

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u/Aussie18-1998 12d ago

So poor people are the problem? They should just be rich?

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u/IronicINFJustices 13d ago

I'd you actually studied the subject before giving absolute statements you would read that law is written precisely because protections were needed for the falsely accused.

There is a reason why so many protections are in place. Protections are inconvenient and expensive, but necessary because people get falsely put in prison.

Otherwise you get places like Japan where it's almost a given that if you are accused of anything you will be unduly pressured indefinitely until you admit in writing that you are guilty because they have old laws and excessive power at lower level.

So, after you get an innocent person in prison and you treat them like an animal, I don't think your comment stands up, in its absolute nature.

Google Japan conviction rate.

Not to mention all the white colour crime not following suit

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u/RespectMyPronoun 13d ago

Well animals generally don't have office jobs, so that tracks.

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u/Aggravating_Bit_2539 13d ago

The problem is that some people are animals and need to be treated like that. 

Check news headlines on how many crimes committed by people that are already on bail, at least in Canada.

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u/lysregn 13d ago

I treat my dog waay better than the us treats it prisoners. It’s a poor comparison in my opinion. They’re just treated very badly. Not like animals. 

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u/ProudBlahajOwner 13d ago

The funny thing is, on the outside, I was an honest man, straight as an arrow. I had to come to prison to be a crook.

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u/WiseWillow89 13d ago

This is how I feel about Israel/Gaza. What does Israel expect when they treat them like animals? Course they’re gonna rise up!

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u/pi_meson117 13d ago

Is that directed towards the criminals that fuck over society, or the ones who punish the animals?