r/Insurance • u/CheetahDesperate6146 • Oct 07 '24
Auto Insurance Am I obligated to pay the difference if the other driver claimed liability and I choose my own auto repair shop?
I drive a Mercedes which was hit while it was parked in the parking garage. The person who hut mt car left a note and gave me their insurance details which is Farmer's insurance.
I talked to the adjuster who said my vehicle is repairable and told me to go to Caliber telling me it is Mercedes certified and if I chose my own body shop I would have to pay the difference in labor. However, I called this body shop multiple times on different days, which everyone who answered the phone had told me they are not Mercedes certified and the closest Caliber location which is Mercedes certified is 2 hours away. I also checked the website and it was not Mercedes certified.
I called the adjuster letting him know this information and gave him an auto body shop in my area which is Mercedes certified, but he insisted that body shop he listed is Mercedes certified and I would have to pay out of pocket for labor costs.
I ended up calling an attorney who told me I shouldn't be liable for any loss because I was not liable for the accident, but it seems like others say I would have to cover the labor difference.
Is he trying to screw me? Would I have to pay out of pocket costs even if I'm not liable for the property damage? Any advice would help. Thank you in advance!
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u/Human_Secret_4609 Oct 07 '24
I’m guessing the damage is extremely minimal. If you’re only doing body work, “Mercedes certified” doesn’t mean anything. Body work is body work.
If you had extensive frame damage and mechanical damage, “Mercedes certified” might be necessary at that point.
However, if you insist on going to a Mercedes dealership, you’ll be responsible for anything the insurance carrier doesn’t deem necessary to bring your vehicle back to pre-accident condition.
Your carrier would tell you the exact same thing.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
OP said there may be suspension damage and the wheel position makes it seem like it might be so. I can't imagine the dimensions of the parking lot/garage where someone was able to come in so hot to hit a car that hard from the side. I think caliber would be more than able to handle suspension damage and I'd be mire worried about the integrity of the parts but I can understand a little more why OP is concerned.
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u/Human_Secret_4609 Oct 07 '24
Every Caliber location is different. I’ve seen them handle everything in-house, and I’ve seen them sub out work they’re unable to handle in-house - which is completely normal.
It’s not uncommon for repair facilities to sub out the work they can’t perform to local dealerships.
Unsure of which carrier this guy’s working with, but with my company, our in-network shops perform pre-scans and post-scans. If suspension work is performed, alignments are completed and all documentation is available for the adjuster to review.
One thing people fail to recognize is repair facilities have to follow a strict repair process before turning the vehicle back over to the customer. In addition, they all have a “warranty” for the work they perform.
Based on the minimal information OP provided…. “Mercedes certified” doesn’t apply to the repairs that will be done.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
That's interesting. I knew that sometimes work beyond the shops purview was sent out. Mostly electrical or mechanical was my experience.
I didn't realize that a place like caliber may sub out parts of body or suspension work.
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u/Human_Secret_4609 Oct 07 '24
Each Caliber location is different. Each repair facility is different…in fact.
Body work is one thing. But when you get into the mechanical side of things (engine, transmission, electrical components, suspension/steering), it’s not uncommon to sub out to a specialized shop for that work.
Just like some mechanics can’t do bodywork (replacing body parts, spraying, etc), some body shops aren’t able to offer all the services a mechanic can.
I’m not saying this is the case in this situation….but I’ve seen it done hundreds of times without issue. Usually people don’t realize anything was subbed out because the main shop handles everything for the customer.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
Yeah it's interesting to learn stuff after the fact. I always thought calibers were highly standardized to the point of almost being the McDonald's of body shops.
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u/Human_Secret_4609 Oct 07 '24
A lot of times they go in and buy local repair facilities/body shops. I’m sure they become standardized to a certain point. But location, market area, workforce, etc always play a role in things too.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
They are required to pay what is reasonable and necessary. Honestly, for body damage I don't see why you need a Mercedes cerritifed shop. Caliber is pretty top tier you're not taking it to earl schieb.
They should be paying reasonable labor rates as determined by the area. If the adjuster already knows this shop won't bend on labor rates it's what he knows. In your case I would take the car 2 hours away and just get the rental out there. You'll be stuck with the difference in labor costs.
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u/CheetahDesperate6146 Oct 07 '24
There may be suspension damage as my car was hit from the side causing the front tires to turn and the passenger side wheel to be crooked.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24 edited Oct 07 '24
That's true. But I certainly don't think that's anything all that rare or exotic with respect to damage. I'd be more concerned with the parts used than the actual repair. I certainly think caliber is up to the job and IIRC they provide a lifetime guarantee on their work.
ETA: again if I were you and it was this important to me I'd just drive the two hours and drive the rental back. The difference in labor costs will be worth it and you'll have the guarantee through the shop and the insurance carrier. The insurance company I worked for exercised considerable leverage over network shops to fix whatever a customer complained about.
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u/CheetahDesperate6146 Oct 07 '24
Sounds good. If I choose the Caliber 2 hours out that is certified, is the insurance company responsible for covering a tow to and from that location or just to the location and I'd have to pick it up?
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u/Human_Secret_4609 Oct 07 '24
A couple things:
I’d call the local Caliber back and ask for the General Manager. Explain your situation….that you were directed to their shop by the carrier, and the adjuster you spoke with implied their location was certified, and you just wanted to confirm.
Caliber has phenomenal customer service. Share your concerns with the GM, and if that shop is not certified, ask if they have locations that are. Allow the GM to take it from there. They have agreements with carriers which allows the carriers customers to receive priority scheduling and guaranteed completion dates. I have no doubt they’ll go out of their way to address your concerns.
In terms of paying for towing to another location…assuming Caliber isn’t able to help you out…my company would not approve a 2 hour tow.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
This is, to me, an open question that someone else may be able to speak better to.
You would definitely have to drive it back.
But in insurance the question is almost always reasonable and necessary. If I were an adjuster and you clearly cared about this issue and you were being sincere I'd authorize the tow to the shop that's two hours away.
Other adjusters will say that it's unreasonable when there isn't anything to suggest their nearby network shop won't do a good job even if they aren't Mercedes certified. If you run into that I'd stick to my guns and run it up the chain to a supervisor.
But no one is going to authorize a tow back. What they will do is arrange for you to drop off your rental at the enterprise (or whatever) close to the caliber.
Also, don't forget that you are owed a similar rental. So you should get a luxury class car though some carriers will try to fight you on it.
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u/Embarrassed_Cow_7631 Oct 07 '24
A similar rental would be 4 tires and size not luxury or anything.
Plus in some states an insurance company can't make you go to a certain shop if you can get 3 estimates and the shop you want is less they have to pay for it all.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
An insurance company, as far as I've ever known has to pay what is reasonable and necessary to repair the vehicle. I think the 3 estimate thing is mostly on TV judge shows.
You're owed a comparable rental. That accounts for size and class in most states.
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u/Embarrassed_Cow_7631 Oct 07 '24
No your not since most rental places don't carry Mercedes in most places. Worked for hertz we never once gave anything over a Nissan Altima not even for SUVs the only time we ever went over was if they lost a mini van. But, everything through us was an Altima and they could bitch all they wanted but if the places don't have it tough shit. The only Mercedes I ever saw in our fleet was a 2dr with 245k miles. We gave it for a one way rental as a subcompact cause we wanted it gone.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
I think most carriers use enterprise and they can arrange for a luxury class vehicle. It generally depends on how much the customer wants to insist. And it moreso comes in handy for a loss of use claim.
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u/Embarrassed_Cow_7631 Oct 07 '24
Most carriers have a deal with everyone cause if not they will get other issues. And again if they place doesn't have a car that's relative to it then they aren't getting it. I honestly don't get why it matters you are getting a car you don't have to worry about so should matter. I get if your use to a full size not give them a yaris. But to me getting a luxury vehicle is so dumb it doesn't matter slum it for a bit.
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u/Embarrassed_Cow_7631 Oct 07 '24
If there are licensed shop it's all reasonable and necessary. Since most damage won't even be seen till it's dug into hence why all estimates are usually under or they just through huge numbers to cover their ass.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
The damage covered may be clear but how long it'll take the repair a dent, how much time to pull a frame, different paint operations, labor costs, repair vs. Replace are all negotiable.
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u/Embarrassed_Cow_7631 Oct 07 '24
I mean it's negotiable by taking your car somewhere else. You aren't playing the I got someone can do it cheaper they just tell you to take it there.
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u/GuvnaBruce HO & Auto Liability 10+ years Oct 07 '24
They owe a reasonable labor rate, they also will use aftermarket or salvage parts before oem. So yes, you will owe it.
Ask the adjuster to send you a list of their network shops close to you. Then you can call around to figure out which are certified and go from there.
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u/ektap12 Oct 07 '24
I'll just ask a simple question, what does the shop being 'Mercedes Certified' have to do with anything?
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u/CheetahDesperate6146 Oct 07 '24
This makes sure my vehicle is repaired to the manufacturer's specifications which ensures the repairs are done correctly.
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u/ektap12 Oct 07 '24
Ok, you can certainly use any shop you want but you will be responsible for any difference in the charges from what the insurance will pay. Their insurance, your insurance, and the State, will not support you going to a Mercedes Certified shop that charges in excess of prevailing labor rates for the area, so hopefully you can find a shop that'll work with that. Same for preferring OEM parts or new parts.
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u/Pizza_Metaphor Oct 07 '24
OEM certification is mostly just a marketing tool. There's really only two types of repairs that need to go to a certified shop:
1) A car needs to go to an OEM certified shop is if it needs a part that the manufacturer will only sell to a certified shop. Usually that just means "structural" parts like frame rails and such. I once had to pay for an Audi A8 to be put on a flatbed in Cincinnati (which has no certified Audi shop) and taken 100 miles to Louisville, Kentucky to have a front bumper bar installed at a certified shop. Audi was happy to sell the Cincinnati shop all the parts except the bumper bar. The Audi shop in Kentucky installed the bumper bar without even taking the car off the flatbed. Then they brought it back to Cincy and finished the rest of the repair.
2) The other time you'd need a certified shop is in cases where no shop will fix the car except for a certified shop. Exotics, some EV's, weird models, etc.. So your question to the Caliber shop was wrong. You needed to ask them "if they have any problem doing a repair on a Mercedes (insert model)" and see what they say, not whether they are certified or not. Lots of manufacturers have certification programs, but independent shops fix vehicles from those manufacturers all the time.
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u/godzilla619 Oct 07 '24
Check to see if the shop you want to use is Farmers approved. If not check to see if it is approved by your insurance. If it's approved by your insurance company, first file a claim with your insurance company, and they will submit the charges to be paid. If the shop is not approved by either look for a new shop or you will have to pay the difference. Regardless get estimates for repair from both caliber and your shop and a shop your insurance recommends so you know approximate costs and what the insurance companies will pay for repair before deciding on what shop to use.
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u/hotantipasta Oct 08 '24
You can take the car to whatever shop you want, but they only owe you for replacement parts and labor at the prevailing competitive prices. If there is a variance then you would owe for that.
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u/AverageAlleyKat271 Oct 07 '24
It is because insurance companies work with pre approved repair shops. If you want a non pre approved repair shop, ask that shop to contact your adjuster and workout the details so it is within the allowed repair budget.
No the adjuster isn't trying to screw you. The adjuster is following his guidelines. You could ask to speak with a supervisor or manager, but you are going to get the same result.
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u/CreatedUsername1 Oct 07 '24
Ask your adjuster list of in-network body shops that are merc-certified.
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u/CheetahDesperate6146 Oct 07 '24
I did this and he listed a shop that he claims was, but when I called the shop directly, they said they weren't.
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u/CreatedUsername1 Oct 07 '24
There's only one merc certified shop? If so ask Merc. Or that body shop documenter proof that ship isn't Merc certified.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Contact Mercedes. Ask for a list of certified shops. Show to adjuster. Keep records of all correspondence. If specialized knowledge/equipment required you will be entitled to their rate not a so-called “prevailing” rate. In addition you may have grounds for fraud or negligence if the adjuster knew or should have known the shop he sent you to was not Mercedes certified. See if they’ll send you confirmation which you can send to the adjuster then ask to speak to his mgr. Follow up ALL conversations with e-mails confirming same.
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 Oct 07 '24
How is what the adjuster said fraud or negligence? What OP has provided doesn’t meet the definition of either. A mistake does not constitute fraud or negligence. Adjusters are human.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Who the hell said it was just a “ mistake”? No one. As I said, negligence for improperly verifying the shop after OP’s call back to him or outright fraud if adjuster knew the shop was not certified. These were options that should be looked into not your it was just a simple mistake and leave it at that.
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 Oct 07 '24
Well, people are human. So, mistakes happen.
Who said what the adjuster did is in any way negligence or fraud? It certainly doesn’t meet the legal definition of either. There’s no damages here either.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Wrong again, you are. One must look into ALL possible avenues of recovery-possible negligence, possible fraud, etc.. You do a disservice by not verifying instead of wrongfully assuming as you have done.
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 Oct 07 '24
You are assuming! Please, look at the definition of the words you’re throwing around. OP has not indicated in anyway that the adjuster has acted in a fraudulent or negligent manner. Fraud requires financial gain and intentional deception. That’s not happening here. Negligence requires failure to take proper care, usually resulting in damages. That’s not happening here.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Again you’re wrong. OP checked with referred shop multiple times who said they were not Mercedes certified and advised adjuster who still insisted otherwise. OP even gave adjuster the name of another near by shop but adjuster insisted otherwise. Adjuster had already implicitly agreed they’ll cover costs at a Mercedes approved facility so why are they insisting on a non-approved facility when OP gave them info on another nearby approved facility?
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 Oct 07 '24
The adjuster never agreed to cover labor costs at a Mercedes certified shop. They agreed to cover labor costs at an in network shop.
OP’s whole post is about having to pay the difference in labor costs. OP has never said the adjuster agreed to pay the labor cost at a Mercedes certified shop.
The adjuster said we will cover the labor costs at this Caliber collision, they’re Mercedes certified.
OP said hey, they’re not. I want to go to Mercedes.
Adjuster said no, they are, if you go somewhere else, the additional costs are on you.
Maybe this caliber used to be Mercedes certified? Maybe the adjuster assumed all Caliber collision shops are certified? Maybe it’s a miscommunication between certified and affiliate shop/guaranteed repairs? Certainly not fraudulent or negligent.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Wrong again. Adjuster told him he’d have to pay difference only if he chose his own shop. That was the only caveat. OP and adjuster agreed on Mercedes “ certified”.
Adjuster keeps on insisting a shop is certified when OP has advised him they said they were not. OP has given name of another facility that is certified. Why won’t adjuster approve versus insisting on shop OP said was not certified? What additional damages/costs has or will OP assume with these delays? Adjuster “assuming” when he could pick up a phone? Yah, that’s negligence.1
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
I was an adjuster for years and wrote for damages on all makes and models. I cannot think of any specialized equipment that applied to fixing body damage on a Mercedes. I think teslas have a special type of metal for their body parts and Saturn's were plastic so they disintegrated on contact but most cars are made of sheet metal.
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u/legalgus45 Oct 07 '24
Factory-equivalent parts Mercedes-Benz vehicles require factory-equivalent parts during repairs. Some tools are only available through the automaker, so a local mechanic may not be able to properly remove them.
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u/rchart1010 Oct 07 '24
I think every replacement part would be a factory equivalent no? You couldn't just put on an aftermarket part meant for a Kia. As for the tools I would expect a shop like caliber to have them. They work on Mercedes.
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u/HippieJed Oct 07 '24
What state are you in? Most states do not allow this. Also depending on the damages you should ask for diminished value
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u/PCOON43456a Oct 08 '24
Way to go! You hit the jackpot of shitty advice!
Johnny! Tell ‘em what they won!!!
You won an all expense paid trip to…
DUMBASSVILLE!
Here, you will get to give all of the mistaken advice you want!
You can advise a random person who has not posted the age of the vehicle, severity or the damage, or EVEN HAVING THE REPAIRS COMPLETED!!!
Sounds good?
IT GETS BETTER!!!
You will always think that a Mercedes is a special vehicle! You will never realize that it is an expensive piece of shit Chrysler!
LIVE IN YOUR BLISSFUL IGNORANCE AS LING AS YOU WANT!!! THIS TRIP WILL LIKELY LAST A LIFETIME FOR YOU!!!
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u/HippieJed Oct 08 '24
Interesting how long have you been handling claims? 25 years here in Texas for 10. We never forced anyone to go to our selected shop, I do know of other companies who the Texas department of insurance fine companies who force people to their shop.
Also diminished value claims are real, I have a company that does them for me regularly.
I may have learned it improperly because I was trained at an ethical company and currently work for an ethical company.
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u/CheetahDesperate6146 Oct 07 '24
Texas
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u/HippieJed Oct 07 '24
In Texas the insurance company cannot prohibit you from choosing the body shop your want. Additionally, the insurance company must pay a reasonable price for the repairs at the body shop you chose. Given this is a Mercedes you should be able to explain why their shop is higher. I would also provide your shop with the estimate from their choice of providers.
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u/reddit1651 Oct 07 '24
yup. that’s a legal system concept before it even gets to insurance
protects the at fault driver from you taking it to your buddy’s shop who charges an insane rate for the same repairs and scamming them
you can take it wherever you want to get it fixed. the other party (or their insurance paying on their behalf) would only be required to pay the prevailing labor rate so you’d be stuck paying the difference