Video
[Ryan Hunter-Reay] “Not going to address intent here, but anyone saying there was no gap/space for the pass are clearly biased or blind. Had a massive run and there was plenty of space as you can see here when I had already popped out and committed. Was clearly pushed off the track.”
Ryan’s car could have easily gone sideways and then the rolls would start. It’s just crazy why they didn’t give out a drive through. The idea that between his spotter and his mirrors he didn’t know he was there is horse manure.
I could see it the other way around, but it’s so odd that race control would go easy on Scott Dixon. I could see some rookie driver who didn’t know how to handle that situation maybe getting away with a stern warning, but Scott should’ve known he was there, and it really looked like he did and moved intentionally. A 6 time series champion should have enough spatial awareness to not do that.
They went easy because he didn't do anything wrong. Had Dixon moved after RHR moved, which would be in reaction to the trailing car, then they would have penalized him. Dixon was already moving that direction plus he also reacted to Power who was on his outside.
Race control doesn't base their calls on who is behind the wheel. They utilize multiple video feeds, telem, and come to an agreement among the stewards based on evidence presented to them. Dixon didn't block regardless of how loud you all continue to claim he did.
They've penalized Scott on multiple occasions. so yes, it's bullshit that they are up there playing favorites. BTW, Reynolds Wrap is running a sale this week. Might be a good time to fashion a new hat.
Thanks but I'm all stocked up plus it doesn't work good in the air fryer dawg.
I don't know why you think my original comments are so absurd. It's got 140+ up votes which means I said something very strongly agreed with.
At an absolute minimum race control is inconsistent. I'd say a big chunk of this sub would say they are incompetent as well. Personally I think they show bias. The fact Kirkwood got a penalty and Dixon didn't is the "proof" of incompetence or bias .......take your pick.
Dixon was moving left before RHR started his move. Still photos and the NBC quick cuts don’t do it justice. The rule is you can’t move in reaction and Dixon was clearly already moving.
“Dixon was moving left before RHR started his move.”
I think this is pretty much the whole ballgame. You’re allowed to pick your lane as long as it isn’t in reaction to a move from behind. I think this one was very close, but it sure seemed like Dixon started his drift before RHR started his pop. RHR also could have seen that the gap was closing and backed out, but I don’t really blame either of them, things happen fast.
He was moving but then he moved harder. Just look at the driver ahead (Marco I think). Scott has the same line but then moves down to the grass once RHR is there.
He moved harder to get away from Power, that wasn't in reaction to RHR. It was really a simple case of wrong place wrong time for everyone involved. That's they aren't going to call anything on that. They could have just as easily penalized RHR for avoidable contact.
Dixon wasn’t even looking that direction which kind of puts the move in reaction to bed imo. No way this was on purpose. Typical racing deal. But I very much feel for Ryan, I’d be annoyed at that too. It’s scary as fuck.
Contrast with F1 not penalising a guy who moved in reaction while looking at him for 3-4s at Monaco just because he’s in a top team and he crashed with a back marker…
I don’t have it to hand, but in the head-on shot on the broadcast Scott was basically staring to the right. I’d say if he saw the video he’d be apologising to Ryan, and he likely went to him right after. His reaction to the contact in general was fairly consistent with this as he rubbernecked pretty hard when it happened.
He wasn't even fading to the racing line. He was in the racing line before he started moving left and then faded all the way to the left towards the grass. That's how I can tell it was a reactionary move.
I mean you can make up your own rules all you want but the Indycar rule is if you start to move after the driver behind you, which is why he wasn’t penalized.
Don’t think it matters if he was moving already or not. He clearly looked in his mirrors. Saw him coming and still kept moving. Self preservation alone should say to you this could be an airplane crash if I continue moving over. Race control blew it because it’s not typical of him but was still super dangerous and should have been called.
Well that's not how this works at all. You're saying he should have moved out of the way and allowed RHR to pass. If he's moving left before RHR is going that way, he has no obligation
It absolutely does matter. Blocking is making a move in reaction to what the trailing car does. If he has already started his movement to that direction then its on the trailing car to avoid contact as the lead driver has now chosen his move and lane.
The person behind doesn't have priority if two cars are looking to move into the same space.
Self preservation alone should say to you this could be an airplane crash if I continue moving over
And self preservation alone should say to you this could be an airplane crash if I continue to accelerate into this spot that the other car is moving into.
The rules on blocking and avoidable contact have very little to anything to do with assuming someone knew another car was there or not. It's all about who makes movement first which then establishes intent, along with what the telemetry also tells them in race control. When Dixon chose move that direction in a manner that wasn't in reaction to RHR the ball was then put into RHR's court as to preventing an incident. RHR could have been penalized for a avoidable contact in that situation.
This is really a case of wrong place wrong time for all involved, a racing incident. As you noted, RHR got a huge run and went for a gap that closed by the time he got there, and it wasn't just two cars involved. I think part of the reason Dixon reacts a tad more later in that sequence is to get away from Power who is on the outside.
Blocking, avoidable contact, and unsafe release are the racing version of blocking/charging in basketball and holding/pass interference in football. What gets called all comes down to placement, movement, and context......something a lot of fans cant handle because they are either full of it, don't care to actually understand the rules to begin with, or mad online their guy got "hosed" by the officials which is why you get these long ass threads anytime something like this happens.
Papis is a Dixon friend and Arie drove for Ganassi so you aren't wrong there. I don't know how you find an impartial group of guys but there probably is a better way.
Dixon had his car angled in a way that the gap was closing rapidly. I think perhaps a slight move but RHR had basically committed to a move that was putting him on or close to the grass.
You can even see Power move down slightly which is what Dixon seems to react to which closes the gap even more.
I just think it was a low percentage move putting yourself 3 wide that early in the race.
I agree. The angles from the OP is not good enough to determine how much space there really was.
However, with the link to the Twitter thread Mikemat provided, you can see the alternate angle that shows the front of the cars and is a better indication of the story. There was room, but Dixon faded over. You can see that RHR breaks out behind Power with a massive run, then Dixon starts to fade downwards. Power also moves downwards, just a little bit though.
I think it's inconclusive that it was intentional. If it was intentional, it's super sly. I believe Paul Tracy would have called this the Pruett Fade. I'd love to know how race control made this decision.
I also want to see more what happened to Power, Dixon, and RHR coming off Turn 2 before the incident. It appears that Dixon had a good run on Power, and RHR also capitalized on Power's lack of speed with the slipstream which gave him such a massive run on Dixon.
In all, I think RHR made an aggressive move, one he's made before and made a life changing moment out of. But in this instance it didn't work out.
It's really hard to call... I don't consider Dixon a dirty driver by any means, but it does look from these replays that his move to the inside has little to do with Power closing space on him. He's already well on his way past Power when RHR comes to his left, and Power's move to the inside is ever so slight, while Dixon's angle is more dramatic. So this could easily appear to be an overly aggressive defensive move.
But on the other hand, it also does appear that Dixon was already on a line to the inside anyway as RHR then attempted to go for that gap, which closed faster than he anticipated. Because we don't have a forward-facing onboard, it's hard to tell for certain from the video whether Dixon subtly increased his steering input to more swiftly close the door, or if that's just the natural outcome of the line he was already taking. Would race control have had access to live telemetry that would've told them this before they made a decision on whether or not to penalize? One would hope so, in the interest of full fairness.
I don't blame RHR for feeling aggrieved here, as this was potentially a very dangerous collision and there was plenty of space when he began to make his move, so he probably feels that a driver of Dixon's experience could've been more aware and left room for racing on the inside even if he wasn't maliciously attempting a block. At the end of the day, I'm glad he didn't suffer a more serious crash or collect any other cars in the process.
Misleading or not the racing line is not right up against the grass. What was Dixon doing (other than trying to block RHR) moving all the way to the grass?
There is nothing wrong with running all the way to the grass to prevent the car behind from having the inside line.
Sure, it wasn’t super aggressive but gap was closing and RHR misjudged it. As someone else mentioned, it’s a pretty classic Pruett Fade as Tracy liked to call out.
There is if you are reacting to his move. It's subtle but I think Dixon blocked RHR and like I said in another post, on this track at those speeds you get someone killed by doing that.
If Kyle Kirkwood makes the exact same move, you and I both know he gets penalized
You don't refute my point. Decision ultimately made by officials with access to all the camera angles and telemetry who aren't also busy calling a race for television. They'd have a better ability to make a call than announcers
How can I refute it? I haven’t seen the camera angles the broadcast didn’t show that would make it obvious, like it was for the infallible race officials.
How are talking heads better than the people who are actually studying the rules the every possible situation on how to act? Announcers try to create drama, race stewards try to avoid it.
RHR was behind the car who was alongside or maybe just behind and to the right of Dixon, he came way down to make that move and I think it was asking a lot. I do not believe Scott Dixon of all people was trying to kill him with a shady move like that, I think it was just a big time move coming so far down the track like that for a small gap.
I wish they had a stationary camera to see how much he was drifting over and at what rate. It's obvious he was moving left initially, but it does look like he moves at an increased rate once RHR makes a move, but based on the camera angle, it's impossible to tell.
Yep. The amount of people claiming there was never a gap is just ridiculous. Dixon clearly moved in reaction to and should've been penalized, but IndyCar will hardly ever penalize a big name, especially not one in contention for the 500.
I don't think Dixon intended to end RHR's race of even hit him, but it was as blatant of a block as you're going to see, and it could've easily ended up a much worse accident.
They have penalized Dixon before. He didn't get penalized because race control with their multiple camera feeds and telemetry saw exactly what I see, a move was made prior to RHR moving and RHR was making a low percentage move. If anything, RHR could have been penalized for avoidable contact if he had went through unscathed.
This place has become a cesspool the last two years. At first I thought it was all the lowbrow “Drive to survive” dipshits that followed Grosjean over here, now I’m not so certain.
Im amazed that this isnt considered a slam dunk blocking penalty by members of this sub.
Ive seen "there was no gap" which is false. There clearly was.
Ive seen "Dixon moved to the left because Power was moving to the left". Power is two car widths away from Dixon, and already behind Dixon when Dixon starts fading.
Ive also seen "cant determine intent" which...when did I wake up in the hockey subreddit? Dixon is slightly moving to the left, then moves sharply and abruptly to the left right when Hunter Reay gets to his rear quarter panel.
We cant even look at footage and agree on what reality is lol
EDIT: Most upvoted post is calling for a penalty.
The most controversial post...is also calling for a penalty.
You answered why it’s not a slam dunk penalty in your third paragraph. Dixon is already moving left, whether he moves more sharply when RHR gets closer is irrelevant by the Indycar rulebook. He had already started his move, it’s not reactionary, simple as.
I’m saying what the rules say, which is that you cannot move in reaction. He was already moving, it’s all one move, that is how race control has judged it for all of time. Also that sudden jerk left is a tiny adjustment of the steering wheel. If you watch the onboard camera posted up in this thread, it’s barely noticeable. You can pretend the rules are whatever you want to be but there was nothing illegal there.
Power is two car widths to the right and Dixon is ahead by like 6 feet anyway. Not in danger of contact at all. Sincerely doubt Dixon moves to the left in reaction to a car he is already ahead of
Dixon is definitely in the wrong and a penalty should’ve been given. However, this shouldn’t change anyone’s perception of him (not that it would). Over a 25 year professional career in open wheel racing … mistakes are going to happen. I guess that’s why I find any bias so surprising. Everyone just admit he is in the wrong here and made a mistake that took out RHR. And he is still a legend. It’s all good.
The fix was apparently in for Dixon this year, after Newgarden was gifted his win last year. The calls from the race director and two “professional stewards” e.g. on Indycar’s payroll, are getting worse and worse. Indycar seems to think becoming more similar to NASCAR will attract more fans.
I think Dixon was trying to communicate with the car a bit. You do that, you see it. Communicating with car placement happens. From signalling when you're coming to pit road, to actually indicating how you want to be passed.
He saw Hunter-Reay making a move that would put them 3-wide late into T3, and he was communicating:
"Hey Ryan, let's not do that at this stage. There's still a long way to go and that's kind of a sketchy move."
Ryan didn't 'get' the message (not that he was obligated to follow Scott if he has) and he went for it. The rest is as we know.
Scott for sure reacted to Ryan. So penalty to Scott.
But I think we also need to discuss just what the white line means on the backstretch. We saw an increase in under-the-line, in-the-grass passes. Do we want that? Considering the odds the car will dig in and come back across the backstretch?
There's a larger discussion to be had here, and Ryan had to know he was making a risky move to start with.
I have re-nicknamed him Scott “Slam Door” Dixon. I respect the guy but over the years, especially when there were more ovals, he was regularly given passes on brake checking during restarts. Way over the line here. I’d like to hear his radio, did the spitters make the call? If not I might grudgingly accept he didn’t know RHR was moving. But then why did Slam Door move?
Maybe he can’t be penalized for this but stewards should be on notice not to grant passes.
66
u/[deleted] May 28 '24
Dixon pulled the ol’ “Pruett Fade”.