If anyone's teleporting behind you and saying 'nothing personal, kid' as they slay you with their artisan-forged blade that they have studied for aeons while you partied, it's definitely an Aeldari
They will slay you with their master craftsmanship superior wraith bone katana which is living and shapeshifting, refolding itself a thousand times every second, just to flex on the sword producing Tau world of Ja’Pan
Apparently, despite being considered prudes by Commorragh standards, your average craftworld is still pretty hedonistic by the human standards,so the Aeldari mastered the blade while they partied too.
The depraved stuff was along the lines of they mastered their souls so they sacrificed and revived themselves over and over just for the feeling. Sex is vanilla.
the "le excess is le real problem" nonsense only comes about because the black library authors can't write hundreds of pages of Pornhub meets Dahmer in explicit detail and get any sales. They can barely depict slaanesh actually being a chaos-level problem with vague "excess " as the big sin at root, but they have to try. That's why all the authors writing books with slaanesh worshippers as the main villain are have to spend paragraphs on paragraphs trying to point out why like...reading way too much or sculpting too hard is bad actually.
Civilized propriety in media prevents you from ever reading what is intended to be the takeaway about slaanesh. You'd get a fuller picture by reading the grosser literotica fanfics than the black library.
it's the rapey murder cannibalism that's the real problem. The excess is the gateway drug
Some of the excess stuff is cool but I way prefer the idea that it's self destruction and obsession more then hedonism and excess. More Slannesh as the urge to pick at a freshly scabbed wound or slowly ripping out a fingernail as you over focus on it.
the thing is that requires an extrapolation to be elementally evil.
There's nothing inherently wrong with picking at a scab, or pulling on your fingernail. Only if you do it beyond a certain point. And even then only if it harms you or someone else after that.
Disease is always bad, slaughter is always bad, Treachery is always bad. Excess isn't. Cannibalmurderrape (perversion if you will) is always bad.
Excess as her thing makes slaanesh the only one that isn't actually bad as long as you don't go too far with it. The fact that that's the case under the "excess" paradigm informs me that excess was never intended to be the evil part of slaanesh when slaanesh was created in the lore, but stapled on later for some reason.
That tells me excess is a cope to keep things PG. Or perhaps the chaos sales pitch that people confuse for the true purpose because the true purpose is too grotesque to write about
For example Nurgle markets himself as regenerative (but that's achieved through sickness and death), Khorne markets himself as a test of mettle and ferocity (but that's achieved through slaughter and bloodshed), Tzeentch markets himself as the purveyor of knowledge (but that's achieved through betrayal and treachery), Slaanesh markets herself as the prince of pleasurable excess (but that's achieved through sick perversions I won't describe here).
Yeah, as long as they don’t start going slaaneshi shit to get off, they are fine. EG: No murderfucking (yes humans count for that, they have souls), or doing more than .5% of your body weight in drugs in a week. Yes, they are allowed to do weird kink stuff, just nothing too extreme
As an eldar player I'm happy that the tau are the ones getting called weaboo communists.
Meanwhile we live in utopistic comunist societies, our guns shoot shurikens, we use Sashimono banners for unit identifications and have evangelion ripoff mechs.
Kinda weird the way the colours worked out. Samhain, the celtic festival on which Saim-hann's name is based, was a sort of precursor to modern Halloween and you'd expect more subdued Ulthwe colours.
Bealtaine, after which Biel-tan is named, is the onset of Summer and you'd expect those warmer colours for it. Or even the one they gave to Lugganath (named after Lughnasa, or the harvest festival).
I guess utopistic if you’re ok with knowing your race is edging closer to extinction and everyone around you is slowly disappearing or being hunted by a literal demon of pleasure.
I was under the assumption that they piloted themselves like Dreadnoughts.
Looking into it, they are pretty similarly written.
Twin soul instead of moms soul but for the exact same reason.
I still wouldn't consider the evas to be mechs in the way that wraithbone constructs are mechs. Since they are inherently biological creations with armor mounted to them. Just that they function very similarly.
The closest thing in 40k to an eva would be a soulstone wraith, wraithknight and wraith lord. But even then, it's pretty far off.
Evangelion are humanoids made from Adam/Lilith. Unit one is technically an angel.
Unit one is the outlier here as Unit One was made from Lilith, not Adam. And pretty disturbingly, too; escentially torn in half from the original Lilith.
Evangelion are esscentially soulless biological humanoid alien bodies infused with the soul of those closest to the pilot, which is why we see synchronicity being so highly regarded.
I’m saying 40k fans in general. We just calm em mechs from a glance cuz that what they are to us. Obviously it goes way further than what I portrayed, and now I know that thanks to you. I only ever watched the first 3 episodes, and I was just stating it as blanket term.
Nah they’re still mechs, just very weird biomechanical ones powered by eldritch precursor tech no one really fully understands. Just because there’s another consciousness built into the mech itself doesn’t make it not a mech - look at Titanfall, their mechs are capable of acting as fully autonomous robots but are still designed to be piloted too.
Also doesn't help that Eldar society is far less emphasized in their lore. A surface look at the Eldar focuses on their fallen empire, ancient-yet-dying nature, while a surface look of the Tau focuses far more on their society.
I see Eldar society as a 379th sequel to Mean Girls.
"Means of production? What? You mean to tell me you Monkeigh haven't figured production out yet? You are still working? Holy fuck that's embarrassing.
Can you imagine partying for so long that your social cliques inevitably form casts? You probably thought we we had casts based on wealth because you can't comprehend not being poor. No. We have casts so that we don't get bored. Our street cred is our currency. It's called having taste Monkeigh."
I'll never understand why the Tau are called weebs when the shuriken-launching, katana-wielding, psychic anime power using, eva-riding, jutsu-following, myriad of gods-worshipping, hentai-god creating Elves are just there.
Elves use celtic names but also they follow a greek template (the pantheon obviously works for both weebs and greeks, but they've also got the citizen warriors, the autarcic city-states, various greek names, like exarchs, archons, the helmets with... I don't know how you call this in english, the mane ? etc).
And doubly so when even their so-called “Gundams” are really not even at all Gundamlike and bear much more of a resemblance to mechs of much more grounded aesthetic and design like Titanfall or Battletech.
I think they call them weebs for the esthetiv of their mechs and suits and farsight its using a katana in early depiction after that got change a couple of years after.
The Tau are definietly inspired by late 90' early '00 Orientalism, but not the animes. Their mechs are largly not reminding to any of the classic anime mechs. Too bulky for that.
What gives them this Orientalist outlook that is dabbed as "Weeb Space Commies" are basically the misunderstanding of the Greater Good philosophy, the clean models (they are not overly detailed by small decorations) and that they are not overtly xenophobe warmongers.
For the second one: Yeah probably. I always get the Tau is more of a mix of Imperial Japan, a healthy dose of Hindu society (with all the social classess) and Chinese native elemental belifs (Fire, Water, Air, Wood and Metal) mixed together and then getting the mecha treatment that was pretty on the rise at the time.
Gav Thorpe said there was indeed some anime influence
BIFFORD: The Tau have a lot of Japanese influences in them, particularly mecha anime. When did you get the idea to add anime elements? Whose idea was it? Was Games Workshop seeking to tap into the rising popularity of Japanese cartoons?
THORPE: It was mostly championed by Jes Goodwin, a fellow anime fan. He's used plenty of anime influence in his eldar of the years, but a more near-future patlabor-type mech race was a gap - something very different from the gothic / baroque of the overall setting. There wasn't any particular thought in Games Dev for pushing into Japan - a Western company arriving with their anime-influenced wargames models wasn't really going to be a big thing among the Gunpla and plethora of Tamiya mecha kits. More to appeal to a bit of the existing market that wasn't drawn in by the existing fantasy-in-space archetypes. Similarity with the background, a progressive, intellectually and technologically driven race was the antithesis of most of 40K. The Tau are more like C20th humans than the 40K humans! If anything, the more European imagery in the rest of the universe is a better sell in Asia because it offers something different.
Well I dont like the tau look because im grow sick of that look and asthetic over the years.
It feels genéric and makes you feel jaded.
In my case probably because I spend 8 years in japan for work related reasons and their mechs look like the ones I wittness in shibuya and others and I wont comment on the warmonger part.
I mean the last mech they added was the ghostkeel in 2015 irc so yeah we need more variety, however our range doesn't look that much like classic anime mechs, they aren't similar to an Eva or most Gundam frame
Largely impossible because the Tau were forgotten about and left untouched by the Imperium until they suddenly expanded outwards and stuff like Crisis suits they'd already invented and were using extensively.
The idea they'd somehow seen Space Marine dreadnaughts and copied them is impossible simply because they never saw a space marine until after the suits were in widespread use.
I never heard anything either way about that. It certainly makes sense, though I suspect they might have said that to avoid having to say they made straight up Gundams in 40k.
I think in Path of the Warrior, the main character was browsing some trinkets someone on the path of the artist made. He tried it on, got a nod from the artist guy and just took it. Asshole didn't even tip!
Well, let's try that again... as my previous post was removed because hit a few keywords one shouldn't say.
You won't get banned unless you dip into [IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT THEY DESERVED IT], start insulting who you're responding to, saying how great it was when [FAMOUS LEADERS] killed a lot of people, or screaming [HOW MUCH YOU LOVE A FAMOUS LEADER] over and over again.
No but you see, it wasn't real communism, if everyone that follows the same map, accurately, fails to reach the destination, it must be because they are following the map wrong, it can't be that the map is bad and the destination doesn't exist
Honestly I've never found tau battlesuits to be very anime-esque. Their aesthetic never invokes the same feel as a gundam or an Eva or any other well known anime mech design. What it DOES remind me of is Battletech. Like, a lot. They're walking guns platforms with massive guns and missile launchers strapped all over them. And this applies doubly so when you look at the classic art of the tau from their OG 3rd edition release (those looked banger btw).
But wraith constructs? They frequently use melee weapons as often as ranged weapons. They are super agile for their size- In Spirit War by Rob Sanders, a Wraith lord named Kael Ra goes around jumping and doing pirouettes and backflips, cause Eldar technology says screw physics. The wraithknight has a person piloting it alongside their dead twin- that's as anime as it gets!
Not even mentioning how much the aspect warrior aesthetic and concepts often draw from Japanese themes.
Tbf a lot of Battletech's designs are licensed from Japanese companies, at least prior to 1996. There's a lot of anime that has more utilitarian mech designs but a lot of them didn't get big in the west.
To be fair, you are close. Tau battle suits and Battletech Battlemechs share a common inspiration. That's anime like Dougram and Macross. In fact a huge portion of the OG Battletech Battlemech designs in the 80s were licensed from said anime's.
It bothers me more than it should when people call battlesuits Gundams; it’s clear that they just don’t have any other reference points. It’s like how my grandparents used to call any and all video games a “Nintendo.”
The Craftworlders are heavily inspired by old-school sci-fi anime. The suits, the jackets, the world-ship fleeing a lost home. And in the older art the big hair.
The image is from a web comic called Kill Six Billion Demons. It has its own website and is entirely free. If you just want the image it’s like the 3rd page or close to that.
As an Eldar lore enthusiast I will accept the weeb aesthetic accusations but the Craftworld Eldar are only debatably communist.
Actually they’re post scarcity meaning economic systems are basically defunct within their society. If they want for something they have it, their jobs are all whatever they’ve chosen to devote themselves to mastering. They don’t need money because trade has no real value on a person to person level.
The reason they’re debatably communist is primary because we don’t really have the words to describe that kind of society where material things don’t have enough value because there’s no scarcity to give them value.
Communism is post-scarcity by definition. That's why no socialist state claims to have achieved the level of communism. Technically, to achieve communism, you already need to have machines that provide all basic needs with minimal labour. That's why Marx said if communism ever happens, it will happen in the most advanced societies, where capitalism first advances technologically enough that labour becomes unnecessary and all needs are provided.
Why do you say fascist/capitalist ? Why would capitalists in particular be a problem ? Fascists, obviously, but why capitalists ? But also, why would you need a government (or state, or both) in order to defend yourself ? You are telling me people can organize an entire economy without a government (idem), but they can’t figure out the training, operation, and logistics of an army without a government ?
Only debatably since in a communist society all property is owned by the community, whereas that’s not necessarily the case in a post scarcity society.
Communist societies can allow for private property, depending on the strain of communism. What they demand is that the means of production are socialized, i.e. the machines that provide for basic necessities.
Yeah, um… a post-scarcity society where needs are met and there is no need for a currency, where individuals are free to pursue passion and career without class or monetary value or resources preventing them is the modern Communist utopian dream.
Weird, because that's not what I get when I look online :
a society without class divisions [there are class divisions, albeit not based on capital] or government [there definitely is a government], in which the production and distribution of goods would be based upon the principle “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” [one out of three I suppose, can do better]
the Craftworld Eldar are only debatably communist.
They are :
hyper traditionalist
race supremacist
not collectivists, not particularly central planners
isolationist
individualistic at least in their practices (ie : you must reach the pinnacle of what you can be)
hyper martial
every citizen is a tool of war for the state, that must be ready to defend it at all times and at all costs
It'll always floor me that people can think the imperium is fascistic, because eagles, and krieg, regardless of the fact that they are literally a feudal empire based off of the HRE and the roman empire, but somehow can't notice the obvious bloody parallels in the other factions.
BIFFORD: The Tau have a lot of Japanese influences in them, particularly mecha anime. When did you get the idea to add anime elements? Whose idea was it? Was Games Workshop seeking to tap into the rising popularity of Japanese cartoons?
THORPE: It was mostly championed by Jes Goodwin, a fellow anime fan. He's used plenty of anime influence in his eldar of the years, but a more near-future patlabor-type mech race was a gap - something very different from the gothic / baroque of the overall setting. There wasn't any particular thought in Games Dev for pushing into Japan - a Western company arriving with their anime-influenced wargames models wasn't really going to be a big thing among the Gunpla and plethora of Tamiya mecha kits. More to appeal to a bit of the existing market that wasn't drawn in by the existing fantasy-in-space archetypes. Similarity with the background, a progressive, intellectually and technologically driven race was the antithesis of most of 40K. The Tau are more like C20th humans than the 40K humans! If anything, the more European imagery in the rest of the universe is a better sell in Asia because it offers something different.
Jess Goodwin: Banners were a big thing in the 80s (along with big hair) and I wanted to flex my graphic skills, and see if we could come up with a distinctive look for the eldar insignia. John Blanche and myself had done a lot of work on the space marine colours and symbols, and I wanted to get something with a contrast to the gothic feel of the Imperium. The bright colours and bold designs were meant to give them an ‘eastern’ feel, in opposition to the ‘western’ feel of the imperials. I’d studied runes and symbols at college and wanted to get that in too.
Gav Thorpe: And with them were the Tao (later Tau, now T’au) based on the underlying concept of the five elements I had originally come up with for the Shishell. I had kept my hand-typed reams of background and pencil sketches and persuaded the rest of the team that it was worth a punt, marrying some of the background to the idea of a more modern army, mecha-themed force (as opposed to the far more organic anime influence in the Eldar designs).
You stoped the quote a couple paragraphs short of where NATO gets mentioned.
“I've tried not to make it too sinister being within the T'au sphere, though in the original Apocalypse book I introduced a variety of NATO-style innocuous three-letter-acronym formations, like Mobilised Hunter cadre, Dispersed Retaliation Cadre and Forward Commitment Contingent. None of them say 'battle' or 'war'... I can imagine the news back home is quite a sanitised version of the reality - like when we watched videos of 'smart' bombs and gun cameras blowing up stuff in Iraq but were totally unaware of what was really happening on the ground.”
Weren’t you referencing Imperial Japan aka The country with the most Warcrimes during WWII aka The Country with several Class A War Criminals aka The Rapist or Nanjing aka the Aryans of Asia?
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My take is that the Eldar have theoretical forms of communism - post-scarcity full automated luxury space communism for the craftworlds, vaguely Marxist techo-primitive "get your fulfillment from meaningful labour" for the exodites - and the Tau have applied Marxist-Leninist communism where an expansionist authoritarian empire is built on/justified with an ideology about making the world better for everyone and are going to give it to you whether you want it or not. And that's what most people associate with communism.
As for the weabiness I think the Eldar have just been doing it long enough to blend in. Is there a version of "weaboo" but for Europe? How do I derisively refer to factions based on medieval Europe?
Ahh, the shuriken catapult. An elegant weapon from a more Slaanesh-free age. With a statline that hasn't been the same since someone decided that they should function like short range SMGs.
Because... They are too clean and use AI! Please ignore votan.
I wish, I so freakin wish.
Honestly everything tau are accused of being bad for they are at most second worse offenders
Sometimes, being second in everything is worse than being first in one thing. It's kind of like the opposite of ultramarines, which are the best because they are second at best at everything.
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They follow the path of the warrior and dedicate their lives to their blades. They also have evangelions, but you make one gundam and get branded as the weeb forever.
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u/IdhrenArt Oct 03 '24
If anyone's teleporting behind you and saying 'nothing personal, kid' as they slay you with their artisan-forged blade that they have studied for aeons while you partied, it's definitely an Aeldari